New heaven new earth???

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BARNEY BRIGHT

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As a practicing Jehovahjs Witness, you know that close to 99% of people here are going to disagree with Watchtower eschatology and most of Watchtower doctrine! I think you are intelligent enough to know that. So why are you posting when you know people here are going to show the Watchtower has re-translated teh clear teaching of Scripture to suit the old Arian heresies?

God doesn't want anyone to be destroyed so I speak even though there will be those numbering far more than JW and what I believe the truth is. Just because the majority believe they are right about something doesn't mean it's necessarily true. The majority among humanity have always thought they were right. Tell me the history of what the Bible shows us, has the majority of mankind believing the truth when God was dealing with the nation of Israel. Were all the nations of the world believing as Israel did or were the majority of the nations believing in their own gods that were false gods. When Jesus was dealing with the nation of Israel when he was human did the majority of the Jews in Israel believe Jesus. Or was it a minority of the Jews in Israel that believed Jesus. The scriptures continue to show us that the majority doesn't believe the truth but we still preach to the people to find those who may change and believe the truth.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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You said to me, "So you think the sun will never burn out?"
You assume God will sustain the universe forever. Scripture says He will destroy it and you do not want to accept that. Fine, hold your view.

I've seen nothing in the scriptures that says it's necessary for our planet and the physical universe to be destroyed for justice to be attained by what Adam and Eve did when they sinned.
The heavens and earth will pass away. They will be destroyed in a fervent heat. What does that mean to you, apparently you want to turn it into something different other than what it literally says. You think it's figurative, symbolic. Think what you want.

I've seen nowhere in scripture that God knew that Adam was going to eat of the forbidden tree before he even created Adam.
Evidently you don't believe in a God who is omniscient - that means He knows everything, including the future. How else would he give us prophesies that are fulfilled with hair-splitting accuracy?

You said we had to know evil to really appreciate and understand what good is. We could not know what mercy, forgiveness, joy, blessings, healing, hope, faith, love and anything good unless we were exposed to their opposites.
You think you could know what mercy means without ever needing it? You think you could know forgiveness if you never sinned? If you were never sick and never died, do you think you could know what healing is.
The people in Haiti suffered greatly with an earthquake that killed 300k. The country was steeped in evil, demonic religions such as voodoo. They lived in fear, starvation, no hope, no faith ... until the earthquake. What happened, the world turned their heads towards Haiti and flooded them with mercy, help, love, food, and the gospel. Many came out of the dark and saw the light.
Was evil necessary for them to know good, love, God's blessings, the truth???
How does an orphan in India living on the streets, often hungry, with no hope, no love, feel when two loving people take him in? Wow, he knows what love is.
 
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Nancy

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You assume God will sustain the universe forever. Scripture says He will destroy it and you do not want to accept that. Fine, hold your view.


The heavens and earth will pass away. They will be destroyed in a fervent heat. What does that mean to you, apparently you want to turn it into something different other than what it literally says. You think it's figurative, symbolic. Think what you want.


Evidently you don't believe in a God who is omniscient - that means He knows everything, including the future. How else would he give us prophesies that are fulfilled with hair-splitting accuracy?


You think you could know what mercy means without ever needing it? You think you could know forgiveness if you never sinned? If you were never sick and never died, do you think you could know what healing is.
The people in Haiti suffered greatly with an earthquake that killed 300k. The country was steeped in evil, demonic religions such as voodoo. They lived in fear, starvation, no hope, no faith ... until the earthquake. What happened, the world turned their heads towards Haiti and flooded them with mercy, help, love, food, and the gospel. Many came out of the dark and saw the light.
Was evil necessary for them to know good, love, God's blessings, the truth???
How does an orphan in India living on the streets, often hungry, with no hope, no love, feel when two loving people take him in? Wow, he knows what love is.

Spot on brother, I enjoyed your post!
 
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BARNEY BRIGHT

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Ronald Nolette said:
The new is a new earth planet and new universe! Just like the bible says.[/Quote\]

The Bible uses the phrase, "New Heaven and New Earth," several times in the scriptures and the scriptures don't go along with what you're saying.
You can find in the scriptures where this phrase is mentioned different times.

The first is found in Isaiah chapter 65. Before reading it, fix in mind the setting—when this material was written and what situation it dealt with. God’s prophet Isaiah, who penned these words, lived over a century before the kingdom of Judah ended. The end came when Jehovah withdrew protection from the unfaithful Jews, letting the Babylonians devastate Jerusalem and take its people into exile. That occurred more than a hundred years after Isaiah predicted it.—2 Chronicles 36:15-21.

As to historical background of the fulfillment, recall that with God’s guidance Isaiah foretold the name of the yet unborn Persian, Cyrus, who finally overthrew Babylon. (Isaiah 45:1) Cyrus set the stage for the Jews’ return to their homeland in 537 B.C.E. Amazingly, Isaiah foretold that restoration, as we read in Isa chapter 65. He focused on the situation that the Israelites could enjoy back in their homeland.

We read at Isaiah 65:17-19: “Here I am creating new heavens and a new earth; and the former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart. But exult, you people, and be joyful forever in what I am creating. For here I am creating Jerusalem a cause for joyfulness and her people a cause for exultation. And I will be joyful in Jerusalem and exult in my people; and no more will there be heard in her the sound of weeping or the sound of a plaintive cry.” Certainly, Isaiah described conditions that were far better than those the Jews had lived under in Babylon. He foretold joyfulness and rejoicing. Now look at the expression “new heavens and a new earth.” This is the first of occurrences of that phrase in the Bible.

The initial fulfillment of Isaiah 65:17-19 involved the ancient Jews who, as Isaiah accurately predicted, did return to their homeland, where they reestablished pure worship. (Ezra 1:1-4; 3:1-4) You realize, of course, that they returned to a homeland on the same planet, not somewhere else in the universe. That realization can help us to see what Isaiah meant by new heavens and a new earth. We do not have to speculate. The Bible itself clarifies what Isaiah meant.

In the Bible, “earth” does not always refer to our globe. For instance, Psalm 96:1 says literally: ‘Sing to Jehovah, all the earth.’ We know that our planet—the terra firma and the vast oceans—cannot sing. People sing. Yes, Psalm 96:1 is referring to the people on the earth. But Isaiah 65:17 also mentions “new heavens.” If the “earth” represents a new society of people in the Jews’ homeland, what are the “new heavens”?

The Cyclopædia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, by M’Clintock and Strong, states: “Wherever the scene of a prophetic vision is laid, heaven signifies . . . the whole assembly of the ruling powers . . . being over and ruling the subjects, as the natural heaven stands over and rules the earth.” As to the combination phrase “heaven and earth,” the Cyclopædia explains that ‘in prophetic language the phrase signifies the political condition of persons of different ranks. The heaven is the sovereignty; the earth is the peasantry, men who are ruled by superiors.’

When the Jews returned to their homeland, they gained what might be called a new system of things. There was a new ruling body. Zerubbabel, a descendant of King David, was governor, and Joshua was high priest. (Haggai 1:1, 12; 2:21; Zechariah 6:11) These constituted “new heavens.” Over what? The “new heavens” were over “a new earth,” the cleansed society of people who were back in their land in order to rebuild Jerusalem and its temple for worshiping Jehovah. Hence, in this real sense, there were new heavens and a new earth in the fulfillment involving the Jews at that time.

Take care not to miss the point. This is neither an exercise in Biblical interpretation nor a mere glance at ancient history. You can see this by moving to another occurrence of the phrase “new heavens and a new earth.” In 2 Peter chapter 3, you will find this occurrence and see that our future is involved.

The apostle Peter wrote his letter over 500 years after the Jews returned to their homeland. As one of Jesus’ apostles, Peter was writing to the followers of Christ, “the Lord” mentioned at 2 Peter 3:2. In 2Pe 3 verse 4, Peter brings up Jesus’ “promised presence,” which makes the prophecy very pertinent today. Ample evidence shows that since World War I, Jesus has been present in the sense of having authority as Ruler in God’s heavenly Kingdom. (Revelation 6:1-8; 11:15, 18) This takes on special meaning in view of something else that Peter foretold in this chapter.

We read at 2 Peter 3:13: “There are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.” You may already have learned that Jesus in heaven is the key Ruler in the “new heavens.” (Luke 1:32, 33) Yet, other Bible texts indicate that he does not rule alone. Jesus promised that the apostles and some others like them would have a place in heaven. In the book of Hebrews, the apostle Paul described such ones as “partakers of the heavenly calling.” And Jesus said that those of this group would sit on thrones in heaven with him. (Hebrews 3:1; Matthew 19:28; Luke 22:28-30; John 14:2, 3) The point is that others reign with Jesus as part of the new heavens. Then what did Peter mean by the term “new earth”?

As with the ancient fulfillment—the return of the Jews to their homeland—the current fulfillment of 2 Peter 3:13 involves people who submit to rulership by the new heavens. You can find millions today who are gladly submitting to such rulership. They are benefiting from its educational program and striving to follow its laws found in the Bible. (Isaiah 54:13) These make up the basis of “a new earth” in the sense that they form a global society of all nationalities, languages, and races, and they work together in submission to the reigning King, Jesus Christ. A significant fact is that you can be part of this!—Micah 4:1-4.

As you examine the context of 2 Peter chapter 3, you will find indications of a great change ahead. In 2Pe 3 verses 5 and 6, Peter writes about the Flood of Noah’s day, the Deluge that ended the wicked world back then. In 2Pe 3 verse 7, Peter mentions that “the heavens and the earth that are now,” both the rulerships and the masses of people, are reserved for “the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly men.” This confirms that the phrase “the heavens and the earth that are now” refers, not to the material universe, but to humans and their rulerships.

Peter explains thereafter that the coming day of Jehovah will bring about a great cleansing, making way for the new heavens and new earth mentioned in 2Pe 3 verse 13. Note the end of that verse—“in these righteousness is to dwell.” Does that not suggest that some major changes for the better must occur? Does it not raise the prospect of really new things, a time when humans will find greater enjoyment in living than they do today? If you can see that, then you have gained insight into what the Bible foretells, insight that relatively few have.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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You assume God will sustain the universe forever. Scripture says He will destroy it and you do not want to accept that. Fine, hold your view.


The heavens and earth will pass away. They will be destroyed in a fervent heat. What does that mean to you, apparently you want to turn it into something different other than what it literally says. You think it's figurative, symbolic. Think what you want.


Evidently you don't believe in a God who is omniscient - that means He knows everything, including the future. How else would he give us prophesies that are fulfilled with hair-splitting accuracy?


You think you could know what mercy means without ever needing it? You think you could know forgiveness if you never sinned? If you were never sick and never died, do you think you could know what healing is.
The people in Haiti suffered greatly with an earthquake that killed 300k. The country was steeped in evil, demonic religions such as voodoo. They lived in fear, starvation, no hope, no faith ... until the earthquake. What happened, the world turned their heads towards Haiti and flooded them with mercy, help, love, food, and the gospel. Many came out of the dark and saw the light.
Was evil necessary for them to know good, love, God's blessings, the truth???
How does an orphan in India living on the streets, often hungry, with no hope, no love, feel when two loving people take him in? Wow, he knows what love is.

Ronald David Bruno said:
You assume God will sustain the universe forever. Scripture says He will destroy it and you do not want to accept that. Fine, hold your view.[/Quote\]

Yes I'll continue to say what I believe the scriptures say on this issue. Let us agree to disagree.

Ronald David Bruno said:
Evidently you don't believe in a God who is omniscient.[/Quote/]

This statement above isn't accurate, I believe the True God to be omniscient, I just don't believe in the definition you apply to this word. I believe other humans to be imperfect persons like everyone else on the planet. So while other humans have a right to their interpretation of scripture and what they believe is the definition of words and the right to express these things. This right they have and express, doesn't necessarily mean, what they interpret to be scriptural truth, is scriptural truth, it's just their belief of what they believe is scriptural truth. Like I said that's their right.

Ronald David Bruno said:
You think you could know what mercy means without ever needing it? You think you could know forgiveness if you never sinned? If you were never sick and never died, do you think you could know what healing is.[/Quote\]

I find it interesting that you honestly believe it was God's will or God's purpose for man to be disobedient to him. That you honestly believe it was God's will that sin and evil was all part of Gods purpose. After all you're saying that it's impossible for God to teach humans unless they are sinful, disobedient, right? Do you honestly think God had to experience evil to know what evil is? I certainly don't. So that means God is and was perfectly capable to teach Adam about sin and evil. Why , because Adam knew it would be wrong to eat of the forbidden fruit since God told him what would happen if he was disobedient to this command. Also God created Adam in such a way that God could speak to him and Adam would understand what the True God was saying. Adam could ask the True God questions and get answers from the True God without Adam having to be disobedient to the True God to learn from the True God, as you're trying to say.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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I find it interesting that you honestly believe it was God's will or God's purpose for man to be disobedient to him. That you honestly believe it was God's will that sin and evil was all part of Gods purpose.
It wasn't His will for man to be disobedient. It was His will that He would have a loving relationship with man. There was no other way. God could not create a loving man, man must be given the choice to love. That is the only love that is worthy, one that is freely given to someone. Another aspect is desire. If life was perfect and you were provided with everything you needed, you would not desire. Our will is also motivated by desire, creativity, inspiration, to do or have things that we don't. What ambition would you have if you had Everything? Not much more than a rich spoiled kid.
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Isaiah 45:7
Evil existed before man - for a purpose.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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It wasn't His will for man to be disobedient. It was His will that He would have a loving relationship with man. There was no other way. God could not create a loving man, man must be given the choice to love. That is the only love that is worthy, one that is freely given to someone. Another aspect is desire. If life was perfect and you were provided with everything you needed, you would not desire. Our will is also motivated by desire, creativity, inspiration, to do or have things that we don't. What ambition would you have if you had Everything? Not much more than a rich spoiled kid.
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Isaiah 45:7
Evil existed before man - for a purpose.

You say that it was God will for Adam to be obedient but then you say God couldn't create a loving man. I agree that Adam had to choose to love God in the way God intended but the fact that God wanted Adam to choose to love him shows that God created Adam so that he could love God in the way he intended.
For you to say that if God gave the man a perfect life that he wouldn't desire, that's not true. The evidence that Adam lived in a paradise, that God created his body to live a content full life happy and abundantly you think this kind of evidence couldn't cause Adam to desire to live his life in a way that would please God, that would give praise and honor to the True God because of the love Adam had for God.
I think that when God has given you life and created your body in such a way that you could live that life happily and abundantly and that he has put you in a paradise home created you so that you could have a conversation with your creator and the ability to reason that you could study the environment God has put you in and give all the animals names this would influence anyone to desire to know God the environment you live in. So don't tell me that when God gave Adam a perfect life and a paradise home Adam couldn't desire, that's not true. Just because Adam didn't allow all the evidence around him to influence Adam to desire to love God as God intended doesn't mean that the evidence couldn't possibly influence Adam to desire to love God as he intended. Adam didn't have to be disobedient to desire as you claim.
 

Ronald Nolette

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then how are we a new creation? And the new Jerusalem our mother?


Because we are!

We are now a spiritual creature where we were not bfore. We are now glorified and justified and are being sanctified. We are born again.

New Jerusalem is the city of God! We are born from heaven. Paul was using it as an allegory!
 

Ronald Nolette

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Shows you don't know what the watchtower says and because you don't know what they teach, aren't you spreading lies about them? The watchtower doesn't teach the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ is symbolic or that the Messianic kingdom is symbolic they teach that the Messianic kingdom is a heavenly kingdom. They teach that the 1000 year reign is a literal thousand years but Jesus is ruling in that heavenly Messianic kingdom ruling over the Earth from heaven during that literal thousand years. This is reasonable to me since Jesus said right before his death that the world wouldn't see him anymore but those of the anointed which at that time was the Apostles and disciples would see him and true to what Jesus said after Jesus was resurrected no unbelievers saw Jesus. Only Jesus Apostles and disciples saw Jesus after his resurrection. So it's understandable that the Messianic kingdom is a heavenly kingdom and the only ones who will actually literally see Jesus when he starts ruling in that heavenly Messianic kingdom are those who have been bought from among Mankind to be in heaven with Jesus ruling with him in that heavenly Messianic kingdom.
Now as to the years you're speaking about when the watchtower thought that Jesus started ruling in that heavenly Messianic kingdom, have they made errors when they said it began in 1874 or 1931 yes, but then got they got it right by stating that the time of the Gentiles ended in 1914 so since the times of the Gentiles ended in 1914 Jesus stood up in heaven and began ruling in that heavenly Messianic kingdom.
How you and others feel about the mistakes the watchtower makes I could care less. You know why, I think the watchtower to consist of imperfect humans like any other organization. You may think you're infallible like God and believe you can't be wrong about the things you say are scriptural but you're not going to convince me of that. I believe that you're an imperfect human like everyone else on the planet and you have the right to interpret the scriptures as you feel they should be interpreted and express that believe but that doesn't mean you're right in how you interpret the scriptures. You're not infallible you can honestly believe you are interpreting the scriptures correctly and still be wrong. So you go ahead and judge another organization all you want I'll recognize that I'm just another imperfect human who shouldn't be judging any person or organization because they disagree with me.


Well unless the Watchtower has revised their eschatology book then I haven't lied!

Yes every organization consissts of imperfect humans! BUT BUT BUT When you call yourself Gods sole channel of communication with man on earth, Gods prophet like organization speaking His Words in due season,

Adn that if a person reads the Bible alone they will be in darkness in three years, but if theypu their bible down and read just watchtowere material they would be in the light in 2 years!

When an organization makes those claims- you check them out! They have been shown to be false prophets.

Thjey cannot even give evidence Jesus started reigning in heaven in 1914.

They declared that Russell and Rutherford were the 2 witnesses in REvelation!

Neither you nor teh Watchtower know what the Times of the Gentiles even mean.

Butr here is the verse. I look forward to you quoting watch the watchtower says this means:

Luke 21:21-25
King James Version

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
 

Ronald Nolette

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God doesn't want anyone to be destroyed so I speak even though there will be those numbering far more than JW and what I believe the truth is. Just because the majority believe they are right about something doesn't mean it's necessarily true. The majority among humanity have always thought they were right. Tell me the history of what the Bible shows us, has the majority of mankind believing the truth when God was dealing with the nation of Israel. Were all the nations of the world believing as Israel did or were the majority of the nations believing in their own gods that were false gods. When Jesus was dealing with the nation of Israel when he was human did the majority of the Jews in Israel believe Jesus. Or was it a minority of the Jews in Israel that believed Jesus. The scriptures continue to show us that the majority doesn't believe the truth but we still preach to the people to find those who may change and believe the truth.


And the majority will not be destroyed but cast alive in the lake of fire to suffer the punishment of rejecting the physical resurrection of Jesus for their sin! That is the Bible. It is the Watchtower that falsely teaches annihilationism.

No matter what man made organizations have doen to try to add or subtract from teh INspired Word of God- Gods truth has held true and untold millions have been saved by the Word of God apart from any man made organization.
 

Ronald Nolette

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do you believe in the 1000 yr kingdom on earth is physical or metaphor?


It is literal. There is nothing to make it a symbolic time span or a metaphor. Jesus comes to earth to reign, this passage simply tells us how long He reigns as King before He gives the Kingdom back to His Father
 
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theefaith

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What about Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

no end? 1000 years must end?
 

Davy

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What about Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

no end? 1000 years must end?

1 Corinthians 15:23-28 is about the full Godhead returning to earth in final, that's the point. Until the new heavens and new earth timing, God's Paradise of Eden will remain in the other dimension where God moved it to back in the time of Genesis 3.
 

theefaith

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1 Corinthians 15:23-28 is about the full Godhead returning to earth in final, that's the point. Until the new heavens and new earth timing, God's Paradise of Eden will remain in the other dimension where God moved it to back in the time of Genesis 3.

the church is the bride the new creation (heaven earth) new Jerusalem also which is our mother gal 4
 

Davy

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the church is the bride the new creation (heaven earth) new Jerusalem also which is our mother gal 4

That's irrelevant to the subject of 1 Corinthians 15:23-28. And the Bride per Revelation is new Jerusalem, not the Church (Rev.21).
 

theefaith

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That's irrelevant to the subject of 1 Corinthians 15:23-28. And the Bride per Revelation is new Jerusalem, not the Church (Rev.21).

but how is the new Jerusalem our mother? The bride and new Jerusalem must be the church?
 

Davy

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but how is the new Jerusalem our mother? The bride and new Jerusalem must be the church?

It's because in that reference Apostle Paul is speaking in the spiritual sense about our home from God in the Heavenly. The Heavenly Jerusalem is about our liberty in Christ Jesus, ultimately when it comes down to this earth out of the Heavenly in the future. Even though it is in Heaven right now with The LORD, it will be a real manifesting right here on earth in the world to come. The Old Testament prophets were given much to write about it.
 

theefaith

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It's because in that reference Apostle Paul is speaking in the spiritual sense about our home from God in the Heavenly. The Heavenly Jerusalem is about our liberty in Christ Jesus, ultimately when it comes down to this earth out of the Heavenly in the future. Even though it is in Heaven right now with The LORD, it will be a real manifesting right here on earth in the world to come. The Old Testament prophets were given much to write about it.

Are we here and now a new creation in Christ?
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Well unless the Watchtower has revised their eschatology book then I haven't lied!

Yes every organization consissts of imperfect humans! BUT BUT BUT When you call yourself Gods sole channel of communication with man on earth, Gods prophet like organization speaking His Words in due season,

Adn that if a person reads the Bible alone they will be in darkness in three years, but if theypu their bible down and read just watchtowere material they would be in the light in 2 years!

When an organization makes those claims- you check them out! They have been shown to be false prophets.

Thjey cannot even give evidence Jesus started reigning in heaven in 1914.

They declared that Russell and Rutherford were the 2 witnesses in REvelation!

Neither you nor teh Watchtower know what the Times of the Gentiles even mean.

Butr here is the verse. I look forward to you quoting watch the watchtower says this means:

Luke 21:21-25
King James Version

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Well you're really screwed up about what the watchtower says, because they have never said to me to put the Bible down. They don't care what version of the Bible you use, they certainly haven't ever told me to put the Bible and only use watchtower magazines. Now the baptized members of the congregations they use the study edition watchtower magazine along with their Bible but that's for those who are baptized members. They also hand out to those who want them, the watchtower and awake magazines but this watchtower magazine they hand out to people isn't the study edition watchtower. Plus anything you read in any magazine you can look in your own version of the Bible to make sure what's being said in the magazines has Biblical support. Also I use to go to baptist and pentecostal churches before I became a JW and they used magazines in their Bible study classes, and that goes on in not just baptist and pentecostal churches, but a lot a churches. Plus people who do research they use Bible Encyclopedias and Bible dictionaries. So anybody who speaks out against the watchtower for using magazines with their Bibles in the congregations of JW to help learn more about God and his truths I'm not going to really care what they have to say when they speak out against the watchtower on this issue. I mean Theologians and other religious leaders can go to their schools where they don't use the Bible alone but if the watchtower uses magazines along with the Bible, they're wrong.

Now about anyone speaking out against the watchtower saying they're the only channel to God, which basically is saying they're the only christians. Anyone or any religious organization speaking out against the watchtower for making such a statement I don't even listen to when all those people who say if you don't believe in the Trinity, immortality of the Soul, and Hellfire doctrine are not christians therefore these people are saying they are the only channel to God since they're saying the only ones who believe in these doctrines are the only ones who are christians. Don't you think that's hypocritical?
 
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