Jesus Christ Is God!

Miss Hepburn · Oct 8, 2010

aspen said:
First, God can do whatever He wills.

Secondly, Jesus humbled himself to us, not just God the Father.
... humbly submitting ourselves to God and our neighbor as servants of love.
... taught us how to enter into the same close relationship the first Adam had with the Father...

The only reason that God sent His divine Son to us was so that we could be reconciled to Him. ...elegant.

I'm watchin' you.

veteran · Oct 9, 2010

garyfromvernon said:
I always felt that when the trinitarian type verses of Jesus were in harmony with the arian type verses of Jesus I would be close to the truth. I did a big study, and sort of feel I have a belief system on Jesus. I read everything I could. I really like the Aramaic Peshitta Christians, and I like to read the earliest Christian writings too. I like Ignatius, Polycarp, Papias as they were students of John, I also like Hyppolytus and Irenaeus who have teaching lineage to John as well. I like to check what they wrote about certian verses, as they spoke the old language and lived close in time to the writings.
What they taught about Jesus
1) They taught Jesus was God
2) They taught that Jesus was eternal and uncreated
3) They taught that Jesus is the only begotten son of God

When I read how they believed what the bible says, that Jesus truly was the Only Begotten Son of God, all the verses make sense. Begotten means, that the substance of a male leaves his body, and after that becomes a person. So the Father always had the Son inside of himself, when he was Begotten, he came out of the Father as the Son. He is eternal and uncreated, and he is begotten. He is Begotten of the Father, not created, he is the substance of the Father. God does not have sex, so as they taught, he came directly from the Fathers own being. The Word is the substance of God, which is eternal and uncreated. The Word was always within God, and the Word was Begotten of God, and when that happened he became the Son.
The Substance of the Father called the Word, is begotten of the Father as the eternal, uncreated Jesus
Origen "The Father generates an uncreated Son".
Clement of Alexandria "There was; then, a Word importing an unbeginning eternity; as also the Word itself, that is, the Son of God, who being, by equality of SUBSTANCE, one with the Father is eternal and uncreated.
Origen "The Word was always with the Father.
Tertullian "...Moreover, He was alone, because there was nothing external to Him but Himself. Yet, even then He was not completely alone. For He had with Him that which He possessed IN Himself- that is to say His own Reason...This Reason is His own Thought, which the Greeks call Logos, by which term we also designate WORD or discourse...Although God had not yet sent out His Word, He still had Him WITHIN Himself...God was not alone. For He had within Himself both Reason, and inherent in reason. His Word...having WITHIN Him...
Tertullian "for He was alone begotten of God in a way peculiar to Himself, from the womb of The Father's own heart. This is just as the Father Himself testifies. He says, "My heart has emitted my most excellent Word".
Hippolytus "The Logos alone of this One is from God Himself. For that reason also, He is God, being of the SUBSTANCE of God".
Origen "For we do NOT hold that which the heretics imagine; that the Son was procreated by the Father from non-existant substances, that is, from a substance OUTSIDE Himself, so that there was a time when he did not exist.
Origen "..."who was born indeed of Him, and derives from Him what He is, but WITHOUT any beginnings...
Hippolytus "The Logo's is God, being the substance of God".
Novatian "...Yet, He who is before all time must be said to have been always IN the Father... I am speaking of the Devine substance whose name is the Word.

So think of the verse Hebrews 1:5, one of the arian Christians main verses. "You are my Son, today I have become your Father", could this be referring to the point in time when The Word, the substance of God, coming out of the Father (begotten) and taking his place as the Son? To be 'begotten' Jesus would have to be the substance of the Father.

John 1:1
Hippolytus "If, the Word was with God, and was God, what follows? Would I say that I speak of two Gods? I will NOT indeed speak of two Gods, but one. I speak of two Persons, however...For the Father is indeed one, but there are two Persons, because there is also the Son."
Tertullian "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. A much more ancient testimony we have also in Genesis: Then the LORD (YHWH) rained upon Sodom and upon Gommorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD (YHWH) out of Heaven... Gen 19:24
Tertullian "For although the Word was God, he was with God".
Justin Martyr " the Word of God, is even God".
Ignatius (learned from the author of John 1:1) "the Lord our God, Jesus Christ".
Ignatius " Continue is intimate union with Jesus Christ, our God"
Irenaeus "But Jesus is Himself in His own right, beyond all men who ever lived, God, Lord, King Eternal, and the incarnate Word...

I AM
Irenaeus ..."And again when the Son speaks to Moses, He says, I am come down to deliver this people".
Tertullian "Christ Himself even testifies back then that this name was HIS own, when he talked with Moses. For who was it who talked with Moses, but the Spirit of the Creator, who is Christ".
Tertullian For He who ever spoke to Moses was the Son of God Himself, who, too, was always seen. For no one ever saw God the Father and lived. (many men in the O.T. saw YHWH, yet the Father and the Son both say nobody saw the Father, Jesus said "if you have seen me, you have seen the Father", Tertullian is saying that the YHWH they saw in the O.T. was not the Father, but the Son.
Tertullian..."for we know that it was the Son who was seen in ancient times". (Isaiah 6:5, Isaiah said he saw YHWH Almighty, but nobody has 'seen the Father", so who did they see?)

Hebrews 1:8
Origen "Pay careful attention to what follows, where He is called God: "For your throne, O'God, is forever and ever".
Justin Martyr "Thy throne O God, is forever and ever"
Novatian "Why, then, should man hesitate to call Christ 'God', when he observes that He is declared to be God by the Father, according to scriptures"

1 Timothy 3:16 ... the mystery of godliness is great: God appeared in a body (some manuscripts read, "he appeared in a body", which version did the first Christians have?)
Ignatius "God himself was manifest in human form for the renewal of eternal life.
Irenaeus "Thus He indicates in clear terms that He is God, and that His advent was in Bethlehem...God, then, was made man, and the Lord did Himself save us.
Tertullian "If God had willed not to be born, He would not have presented Himself in the likeness of man."

Matthew 1:23
Irenaeus "He is God, for the name Immanuel indicated this".
Cyprian "Also in the Gospel according to Matthew: And you will call his name Emmanuel, which interpreted, "God with Us".

Hebrews 9:16-17 In the case of a will (same greek word as covenant), it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is only in force when somebody had died.
(we are told we will inherit the Kingdom of God, James 2:5, 1Corin 6:9, Heb 6:2. We will inherit God's Kingdom, and it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made the will or covenant. Who died?

If Jesus is truly begotten of the Father, without sex, then he is the substance of the Father.

Thanks for that Garyfromvernon,

The writings of the early Church fathers reveal how they understood Jesus The Christ as God Immanuel come in the flesh.

It's those who follow the leaven of the Pharisees that deny that, just as their fathers denied Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ. By admitting that Christ Jesus is God come in the flesh, they would have to leave their false doctrines of thinking they can become their own Christ, which is a New Age teaching of occultism.

pgfinest2002 · Oct 18, 2010

garyfromvernon said:
I always felt that when the trinitarian type verses of Jesus were in harmony with the arian type verses of Jesus I would be close to the truth. I did a big study, and sort of feel I have a belief system on Jesus. I read everything I could. I really like the Aramaic Peshitta Christians, and I like to read the earliest Christian writings too. I like Ignatius, Polycarp, Papias as they were students of John, I also like Hyppolytus and Irenaeus who have teaching lineage to John as well. I like to check what they wrote about certian verses, as they spoke the old language and lived close in time to the writings.
What they taught about Jesus
1) They taught Jesus was God
2) They taught that Jesus was eternal and uncreated
3) They taught that Jesus is the only begotten son of God

When I read how they believed what the bible says, that Jesus truly was the Only Begotten Son of God, all the verses make sense. Begotten means, that the substance of a male leaves his body, and after that becomes a person. So the Father always had the Son inside of himself, when he was Begotten, he came out of the Father as the Son. He is eternal and uncreated, and he is begotten. He is Begotten of the Father, not created, he is the substance of the Father. God does not have sex, so as they taught, he came directly from the Fathers own being. The Word is the substance of God, which is eternal and uncreated. The Word was always within God, and the Word was Begotten of God, and when that happened he became the Son.
The Substance of the Father called the Word, is begotten of the Father as the eternal, uncreated Jesus
Origen "The Father generates an uncreated Son".
Clement of Alexandria "There was; then, a Word importing an unbeginning eternity; as also the Word itself, that is, the Son of God, who being, by equality of SUBSTANCE, one with the Father is eternal and uncreated.
Origen "The Word was always with the Father.
Tertullian "...Moreover, He was alone, because there was nothing external to Him but Himself. Yet, even then He was not completely alone. For He had with Him that which He possessed IN Himself- that is to say His own Reason...This Reason is His own Thought, which the Greeks call Logos, by which term we also designate WORD or discourse...Although God had not yet sent out His Word, He still had Him WITHIN Himself...God was not alone. For He had within Himself both Reason, and inherent in reason. His Word...having WITHIN Him...
Tertullian "for He was alone begotten of God in a way peculiar to Himself, from the womb of The Father's own heart. This is just as the Father Himself testifies. He says, "My heart has emitted my most excellent Word".
Hippolytus "The Logos alone of this One is from God Himself. For that reason also, He is God, being of the SUBSTANCE of God".
Origen "For we do NOT hold that which the heretics imagine; that the Son was procreated by the Father from non-existant substances, that is, from a substance OUTSIDE Himself, so that there was a time when he did not exist.
Origen "..."who was born indeed of Him, and derives from Him what He is, but WITHOUT any beginnings...
Hippolytus "The Logo's is God, being the substance of God".
Novatian "...Yet, He who is before all time must be said to have been always IN the Father... I am speaking of the Devine substance whose name is the Word.

So think of the verse Hebrews 1:5, one of the arian Christians main verses. "You are my Son, today I have become your Father", could this be referring to the point in time when The Word, the substance of God, coming out of the Father (begotten) and taking his place as the Son? To be 'begotten' Jesus would have to be the substance of the Father.

John 1:1
Hippolytus "If, the Word was with God, and was God, what follows? Would I say that I speak of two Gods? I will NOT indeed speak of two Gods, but one. I speak of two Persons, however...For the Father is indeed one, but there are two Persons, because there is also the Son."
Tertullian "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. A much more ancient testimony we have also in Genesis: Then the LORD (YHWH) rained upon Sodom and upon Gommorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD (YHWH) out of Heaven... Gen 19:24
Tertullian "For although the Word was God, he was with God".
Justin Martyr " the Word of God, is even God".
Ignatius (learned from the author of John 1:1) "the Lord our God, Jesus Christ".
Ignatius " Continue is intimate union with Jesus Christ, our God"
Irenaeus "But Jesus is Himself in His own right, beyond all men who ever lived, God, Lord, King Eternal, and the incarnate Word...

I AM
Irenaeus ..."And again when the Son speaks to Moses, He says, I am come down to deliver this people".
Tertullian "Christ Himself even testifies back then that this name was HIS own, when he talked with Moses. For who was it who talked with Moses, but the Spirit of the Creator, who is Christ".
Tertullian For He who ever spoke to Moses was the Son of God Himself, who, too, was always seen. For no one ever saw God the Father and lived. (many men in the O.T. saw YHWH, yet the Father and the Son both say nobody saw the Father, Jesus said "if you have seen me, you have seen the Father", Tertullian is saying that the YHWH they saw in the O.T. was not the Father, but the Son.
Tertullian..."for we know that it was the Son who was seen in ancient times". (Isaiah 6:5, Isaiah said he saw YHWH Almighty, but nobody has 'seen the Father", so who did they see?)

Hebrews 1:8
Origen "Pay careful attention to what follows, where He is called God: "For your throne, O'God, is forever and ever".
Justin Martyr "Thy throne O God, is forever and ever"
Novatian "Why, then, should man hesitate to call Christ 'God', when he observes that He is declared to be God by the Father, according to scriptures"

1 Timothy 3:16 ... the mystery of godliness is great: God appeared in a body (some manuscripts read, "he appeared in a body", which version did the first Christians have?)
Ignatius "God himself was manifest in human form for the renewal of eternal life.
Irenaeus "Thus He indicates in clear terms that He is God, and that His advent was in Bethlehem...God, then, was made man, and the Lord did Himself save us.
Tertullian "If God had willed not to be born, He would not have presented Himself in the likeness of man."

Matthew 1:23
Irenaeus "He is God, for the name Immanuel indicated this".
Cyprian "Also in the Gospel according to Matthew: And you will call his name Emmanuel, which interpreted, "God with Us".

Hebrews 9:16-17 In the case of a will (same greek word as covenant), it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is only in force when somebody had died.
(we are told we will inherit the Kingdom of God, James 2:5, 1Corin 6:9, Heb 6:2. We will inherit God's Kingdom, and it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made the will or covenant. Who died?

If Jesus is truly begotten of the Father, without sex, then he is the substance of the Father.

Good post. This is what I've come to believe in many respects as well. I was reading a Jewish believer who explained it much the same way. That Jesus existed eternally with the Father and came out of Him into the World as a man/human.

However, by wrapping Himself up in flesh, Jesus never ceased being God, which is exactly what the apostles saw I believe.

Or as one put it:
"In other words, Yeshua did not say that He and the Father are identical (in human form, He was accountable to God the Father - the Source!), but rather, He and the Father have essential unity together, that He enjoys exact unity of nature and actions with His Father. The Jews clearly understood this and tried to stone Him for blasphemy."

and

"Yeshua's HUMAN body died physically on the cross, but His Divine Qnoma/Nature lived on. The fact that there was NO corpse should have been proof that God was trying to tell us something: (1) He didn't WANT there to be a corpse; and, (2) He is God and He can do whatever He wants.... "

Duckybill · Nov 29, 2010

Thanks to those of you who rightly proclaim the indisputable fact that Jesus is God. After all, if we don't know who the Savior is how can we tell others about Him?

Philippians 2:5-6 (NKJV)
[sup]5 [/sup]Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, [sup]6 [/sup]who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,

belantos · Dec 7, 2010

Paul said:
Jesus Christ, Yeshua Hamashiach, is 100% God and 100% man, human or your faith is in vain. If He, Yeshua Hamashiach is not 100% God, He is not sinless; He is not the Lamb of God that “takes away the sin of the world. If He, Yeshua Hamashiach, is not 100% human, He can not die in our place. If you do not believe that, you do not belong on this part of the board.

Jesus Christ, Yeshua Hamashiach, is the Word, Logos, of God in human form. He, Yeshua Hamashiach, is Eternal, with The Father, Yahavah, YHVH, and The Holy Spirit, Ruach Ha-Kodesh.

How does the lamb sacrifice take away the sin of the world? The lamb sacrifice had nothing to do with sin.

If Jesus is not the son of Joseph by blood, he is not from the tribe of Judah as in ancient Jewish customs tribal membership was inherited through the father. Without tribal membership he cannot be the Messiah.

bud02 · Dec 7, 2010

belantos said:
How does the lamb sacrifice take away the sin of the world? The lamb sacrifice had nothing to do with sin.

If Jesus is not the son of Joseph by blood, he is not from the tribe of Judah as in ancient Jewish customs tribal membership was inherited through the father. Without tribal membership he cannot be the Messiah.

[sup]Hebrews 7:11[/sup] Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? [sup]12[/sup] For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. [sup]13[/sup] For He of whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no man has officiated at the altar.
[sup]14[/sup] For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood.[sup][a][/sup] [sup]15[/sup] And it is yet far more evident if, in the likeness of Melchizedek, there arises another priest [sup]16[/sup] who has come, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the power of an endless life. [sup]17[/sup] For He testifies:[sup][b][/sup]

“ You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”[sup][c][/sup]

[sup]18[/sup] For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, [sup]19[/sup] for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is thebringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.
Greatness of the New Priest

[sup]20[/sup] And inasmuch as He was not made priest without an oath [sup]21[/sup] (for they have become priests without an oath, but He with an oath by Him who said to Him:

“ The LORD has sworn
And will not relent,

‘ You are a priest forever[sup][d][/sup]
According to the order of Melchizedek’”),[sup][e][/sup]

[sup]22[/sup] by so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant.
[sup]23[/sup] Also there were many priests, because they were prevented by death from continuing. [sup]24[/sup] But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. [sup]25[/sup] Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
[sup]26[/sup] For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who isholy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; [sup]27[/sup] who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people’s, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. [sup]28[/sup] For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever.

brionne · Dec 8, 2010

bud02 said:
[sup]24[/sup] But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. [sup]25[/sup] Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
[sup]26[/sup] For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who isholy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; [sup][/sup]

interesting how Jesus is called a 'priest'

As we know a priest, he is a person who acts as a mediator between man & God

Is it even logical that someone can act as a 'mediator' between himself and another?

bud02 · Dec 8, 2010

Pegg said:
interesting how Jesus is called a 'priest'

As we know a priest, he is a person who acts as a mediator between man & God

Is it even logical that someone can act as a 'mediator' between himself and another?

Depends on the man. Is a mans that testifies of himself wise?
The man that takes credit for an others work is a fool and a deceiver, the same is true of one that credits him with the works of God.
John 14:10

Is it the well or the water within that brings life?
John 7:37-38
Isa 12:3-4

When I was a teen I lived with my Grandfather for a while. At the end of the driveway puddles of water would fill when it rained. The little boy down the block would come running down the sidewalk with a stick in his hand as hard as he could go, He would stop and pound that puddle as hard as he could, turn and run home just as fast as he came. This went on all one summer, my Grandpa laughed so hard, he named him puddle pounder. But as I grew puddle pounder became an metaphor. The rains come down from heaven and the puddles are formed, some little boys come out and pound the puddles trying to splash all the water out of them to their own destruction, or simply because they themselves are nothing but puddles themselves. The rod is for the backs of fools, and the Lord disciples those he loves as father does a son, its your choice.

Theres one well called Jacobs well. Do you seek to drink from the well my Grandpa dug or have you come to pound puddles after the recent rain?

[sup]11[/sup] The woman said to Him, “Sir, You have nothing to draw with, and the well is deep. Where then do You get that living water? [sup]12[/sup] Are You greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well, and drank from it himself, as well as his sons and his livestock?”
[sup]13[/sup] Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, [sup]14[/sup] but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”
[sup]15[/sup] The woman said to Him, “Sir, give me this water, that I may not thirst, nor come here to draw.”

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Jesus Christ Is God!

Miss Hepburn

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veteran

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pgfinest2002

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Duckybill

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belantos

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bud02

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brionne

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bud02

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