Acts 2:17-21 and "The Last Days"

FluffyYellowDuck said:

....
This is a scripture often referenced to confirm that the gift of prophecy is back and relevant today as many consider these our "Last days."

If we go back before that scripture in 15-16 we also see Peter correcting the crowd "These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It is only the third hour of the day! No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:"

It seems to me that Peter was proclaiming that at that time those were the last days that Joel was speaking of. And I have thought this for a little while now, until I considered that what would they be saved from? The last paragraph from Joel doesn't fit too well.

Peter and Paul were two apostles that offered hints in scripture that they were under the impression that they were the ones living in the last days and it's normal human error and left as an example. (Jesus didn't tell them when.)

But it makes me wonder...
1. Did the last days begin after the crucifixion or Pentecost? Have we been in the last days for two thousand years and didn't really seem to notice?
2. Was it merely human error?
3. If it wasn't human error, and we have been in the last days, does that mean prophecy has been relevant the whole time?

Click to expand...

Once again as usual, men's traditions have clouded the real meaning of Peter quoting from Joel 2 on Pentecost.

When Peter said, "this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel", that means to go back in the Book of Joel and study what was prophesied there, and note the TIMING given there, not in Peter's day.

Joel 2:28-32
28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out My spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out My spirit.

30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
KJV

"afterward" in the Hebrew is actually latter days, which is how Acts 2:17 renders that from Joel 2.

The "wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke" are signs meant for the last generation that will see the Signs of Jesus' coming. So that was not for Peter's generation.

The "sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood" happens just prior to the "day of the Lord", and is a 6th Seal timing event.

The "day of the Lord" timing is the day of Christ's return and gathering of His Church.

In Mark 13, Jesus forewarned His elect about being delivered up to give a Testimony for Him in the last days. He said to not premeditate what we will say in that hour, because it won't be us speaking but The Holy Spirit speaking through us. That is particularly what the cloven tongue of Joel 2 is about, with Pentecost being but an example. This event is set for the end of the tribulation time, and it is about God giving a Witness through His servants against Satan and his world beast kingdom he is coming to setup at the end of this world.

FluffyYellowDuck said:

I'm sure you've all heard this one:

In the last days, God says,
I will pour out My Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.

Even on My menservants and maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
The sun will be turned to darkness,
and the moon to blood,
before the coming of the great and glorious Day of the Lord.
And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’

This is a scripture often referenced to confirm that the gift of prophecy is back and relevant today as many consider these our "Last days."

If we go back before that scripture in 15-16 we also see Peter correcting the crowd "These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It is only the third hour of the day! No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:"

It seems to me that Peter was proclaiming that at that time those were the last days that Joel was speaking of. And I have thought this for a little while now, until I considered that what would they be saved from? The last paragraph from Joel doesn't fit too well.

Peter and Paul were two apostles that offered hints in scripture that they were under the impression that they were the ones living in the last days and it's normal human error and left as an example. (Jesus didn't tell them when.)

But it makes me wonder...
1. Did the last days begin after the crucifixion or Pentecost? Have we been in the last days for two thousand years and didn't really seem to notice?
2. Was it merely human error?
3. If it wasn't human error, and we have been in the last days, does that mean prophecy has been relevant the whole time?

Click to expand...

There you go again, demanding that others participate in your depressed last days horror show.

The sun shines for those who see it. You will not drag me into your dark depressed end of time hole because a child is being born to the sun right now, if you listen you will hear it's joy on the wind

When the cross of Christ is lifted up, all men will be drawn to Him.
When I lift up the cross of Christ (make it mine), others will be drawn to Him through me.
We are to trust in the God of the bible, not the bible of the God.

FluffyYellowDuck said:

I'm sure you've all heard this one:

In the last days, God says,
I will pour out My Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.

Even on My menservants and maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
The sun will be turned to darkness,
and the moon to blood,
before the coming of the great and glorious Day of the Lord.
And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’

This is a scripture often referenced to confirm that the gift of prophecy is back and relevant today as many consider these our "Last days."

If we go back before that scripture in 15-16 we also see Peter correcting the crowd "These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It is only the third hour of the day! No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:"

It seems to me that Peter was proclaiming that at that time those were the last days that Joel was speaking of. And I have thought this for a little while now, until I considered that what would they be saved from? The last paragraph from Joel doesn't fit too well.

Peter and Paul were two apostles that offered hints in scripture that they were under the impression that they were the ones living in the last days and it's normal human error and left as an example. (Jesus didn't tell them when.)

But it makes me wonder...
1. Did the last days begin after the crucifixion or Pentecost? Have we been in the last days for two thousand years and didn't really seem to notice?
2. Was it merely human error?
3. If it wasn't human error, and we have been in the last days, does that mean prophecy has been relevant the whole time?

Click to expand...

@FluffyYellowDuck In the Old Testament - as dispensationalists will say, as per the distinction between Jews, Gentiles and the church of God (1 Corinthians 10.32) we see both the coming of Christ and a future for the Jews. Some Old Testament prophecies thus have more than one aspect and more than one timetable for fulfillment.

FluffyYellowDuck said:

Do you mean like Abraham and Isaac being a precursor to God giving up his own son?

Click to expand...

Indeed Romans and Hebrews shows the work of Christ prefigured back to Abraham, etc.

FluffyYellowDuck said:

Could you elaborate a little bit on that? It's been on my mind since this morning. Trying to wrap my head around it.

Because for me, the subject brings to mind "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:14-18 Although I've found the absence of a few scriptures and some changes when going back to older versions of the Bible.

Click to expand...

The Word John talks about is the Living Word, Jesus Christ.
People wrote down what the Word spoke in the original manuscripts.
Over the Millenia, copies of copies of copies have been made.
The original manuscripts have been lost, destroyed, or simply disintegrated.
If there was only one written truth, every bible would say exactly the same thing but that is not so.
Trust God...alone.

FluffyYellowDuck said:

I'm sure you've all heard this one:

In the last days, God says,
I will pour out My Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.

Even on My menservants and maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
The sun will be turned to darkness,
and the moon to blood,
before the coming of the great and glorious Day of the Lord.
And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’

This is a scripture often referenced to confirm that the gift of prophecy is back and relevant today as many consider these our "Last days."

If we go back before that scripture in 15-16 we also see Peter correcting the crowd "These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It is only the third hour of the day! No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:"

It seems to me that Peter was proclaiming that at that time those were the last days that Joel was speaking of. And I have thought this for a little while now, until I considered that what would they be saved from? The last paragraph from Joel doesn't fit too well.

Peter and Paul were two apostles that offered hints in scripture that they were under the impression that they were the ones living in the last days and it's normal human error and left as an example. (Jesus didn't tell them when.)

But it makes me wonder...
1. Did the last days begin after the crucifixion or Pentecost? Have we been in the last days for two thousand years and didn't really seem to notice?
2. Was it merely human error?
3. If it wasn't human error, and we have been in the last days, does that mean prophecy has been relevant the whole time?

Click to expand...

I think we've been in the end times, or the church age, for a few thousand years.
I think the last days are characterized by the great tribulation and the arrival on the scene of the 144,000 spoken of in the book of Revelation.
It is my understanding that we are between the second and third woes and that I have washed my robes in the blood of the Lamb.

Truman Ron Coates said:

I think we've been in the end times, or the church age, for a few thousand years.
I think the last days are characterized by the great tribulation and the arrival on the scene of the 144,000 spoken of in the book of Revelation.
It is my understanding that we are between the second and third woes and that I have washed my robes in the blood of the Lamb.

Click to expand...

Not yet there bro. If we remain alive for what is coming, we still have a lot of washing to do.

The 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe is when the time of "great tribulation" will be, when the "dragon" starts his 42 month reign on earth. Lord Jesus returns on the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe.

Time will tell...

FluffyYellowDuck said:

But it makes me wonder...
1. Did the last days begin after the crucifixion or Pentecost? Have we been in the last days for two thousand years and didn't really seem to notice?
2. Was it merely human error?
3. If it wasn't human error, and we have been in the last days, does that mean prophecy has been relevant the whole time?

Click to expand...

When is the Last Days, well it's a time period of DAYS. starting with the Lord Jesus the Christ. let the bible tell you, Hebrews 1:1 "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,"Hebrews 1:2 "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" here last day is in the plural meanin more that one 24 hr. day, for a day with God as a thousand years.

and to make sure that the "LATTER" days are here when Christ was entered into this world, 1 Timothy 4:1 "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;" and Paul was after the Lord Jesus.

1 Peter 1:20 "Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you," so again the last is in "times". and also here, 2 Timothy 3:1 "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come." again days is in the plural.

so yes, we're in the last day/days/times. and the end of the day/days/times is at the resurrection... John 6:39 "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."

and from scriptures, the end of "DAY(S)" began with the Lord Jesus coming into the world, and that "DAY", ends on his return when he resurrect the dead in him.

so, the poster, Truman Ron Coates, is corret when he said, "I think we've been in the end times, or the church age, for a few thousand years". and the prophet Hosea by God, is the same messanger for a few thousand years. Hosea 6:2 "After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight."

and that word, "revive" is the Hebrew word,
H2421 חָיָה chayah (chaw-yaw') v.
1. (literally or figuratively) to live.
2. (causatively) to revive.
3. (specially) to bring back to life (from the dead).
[a primitive root]
KJV: keep (leave, make) alive, X certainly, give (promise) life, (let, suffer to) live, nourish up, preserve (alive), quicken, recover, repair, restore (to life), revive, (X God) save (alive, life, lives), X surely, be whole.

How do God "revive" us to LIVE? by being BORN AGAIN, it's called "restoration" from the dead, we have been dead to God, (Spiritually), without his Spirit, now, we may LIVE in God by his Spirit. this is the whole reason for the out pouring of the Spirit, is to revive us. another word for revive is "RENEW" Ephesians 4:23 "And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;" HOW? Romans 6:4 "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." BINGO, Romans 14:9 "For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living." THERE IT IS IN B & W.

THIS IS THE "GREAT COMMISSION" restoration", Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
Matthew 28:20 "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."

so the Latter days is the CHURCH AGE, Matthew 16:18 "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

again the promise of God foretold in the book of Joel, fulfilled on the day of Pentecost in the book of Acts.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

farouk said:

@FluffyYellowDuck In the Old Testament - as dispensationalists will say, as per the distinction between Jews, Gentiles and the church of God (1 Corinthians 10.32) we see both the coming of Christ and a future for the Jews. Some Old Testament prophecies thus have more than one aspect and more than one timetable for fulfillment.

Click to expand...

Of course that Dispensationalist false tradition of a separation between future Israel in Christ's coming Kingdom and the Church is TOTALLY BOGUS.

In Romans 9, Apostle Paul quoted from Hosea 1 when preaching to Gentile Roman believers on Christ. Thing is, the Book of Hosea was written specifically to the ten tribes of the "house of Israel". The idea is that in final, Christ's future Kingdom of Israel inherits the believing Gentiles. This is what Apostle Paul called the "commonwealth of Israel" in Ephesians 2. And it was first hinted at in the Old Testament prophets that the children of Israel would be gathered along with believing Gentiles on Christ Jesus, both making up His Church as one body:

Isa 54:2-3
2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.
KJV


Isa 49:14-22
14 But Zion said, 'The LORD hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me.'
15 Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.
16 Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of My hands; thy walls are continually before Me.
17 Thy children shall make haste; thy destroyers and they that made thee waste shall go forth of thee.
18 Lift up thine eyes round about, and behold: all these gather themselves together, and come to thee. As I live, saith the LORD, thou shalt surely clothe thee with them all, as with an ornament, and bind them on thee, as a bride doeth.
19 For thy waste and thy desolate places, and the land of thy destruction, shall even now be too narrow by reason of the inhabitants, and they that swallowed thee up shall be far away.
20 The children which thou shalt have, after thou hast lost the other, shall say again in thine ears, 'The place is too strait for me: give place to me that I may dwell.'
21 Then shalt thou say in thine heart, 'Who hath begotten me these, seeing I have lost my children, and am desolate, a captive, and removing to and fro? and who hath brought up these? Behold, I was left alone; these, where had they been?'
22 Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up Mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up My standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders.
KJV