The Great Tribulation

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Trekson

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THE GREAT TRIBULATION

This study will be from perspective of 1 Pet. 4:12-18. The words in parenthesis are the definitions from the Strong’s regarding the previous word(s).

12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial (a calamitous testing of trustworthiness) which is to try (prove yourself through adversity and temptation) you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: 13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings (hardships); that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. 14 If ye be reproached (taunted, reviled) for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. 15 But let none of you suffer (a painful experience) as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. 16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. 17 For the time is come that judgment ( a decision for or against) must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely (with great difficulty and hard work) be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

For clarification’s sake let’s contrast the word “judgment”. For example, the “judgment” seat of Christ in 2 Co. 5:10 means to “convene and talk together”. Not the same is it? How will this time of judgment occur? I believe it will occur in the time of the Great Tribulation. There are many errant ideas about this time so let’s clarify what it is not! The great tribulation is NOT the latter part of the 70th week, it is NOT the “time of Jacob’s troubles”, it is NOT upon Israel. The term “tribulation” should never have been used to describe the 70th week. Why? Because the bible never refers to it that way. Are there other scriptures that speak of this? Yes, there are many!

James 1:2-4 - "Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything." (NIV)

Matt. 13:18-22 - "Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path. The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away. The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful. (NIV)

The idea why Great Trib upon the church is explained in 1 Peter 1:5-7 - ..."who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. These have come so that your faith--of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire--may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed." (NIV)

See also: Rom. 5:3, 8:35, 2 Cor. 8:2, 13:5-7(NIV), 1 Thess. 3:4 and Rev. 2:10 and 3:10.

This time, imo, is also ,imo, the reason for the apostasy, the great “falling away” per 2 Thess. 2:3 - Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition…“ (KJV) This word apostasy is derived from the Greek word “apostasia“. My dictionary defines apostasy as, “the abandonment of a former allegiance as in turning away from one’s religious faith.” However, in order to be apostate one had to have a genuine faith to be begin with. Being a false religion as some believe Catholicism is, just doesn’t cut it.

Is there any precedence for this in scripture? Sure, let's take a trip down memory lane to the book of Job. You know the story, he was the richest man on earth yet he lost everything, family, house, possessions, etc. Similar to some of the losses we may face as believers in the midst of the great tribulation. He questions God about the unfairness and seeming injustice of all that befell him. Chapters 38-41 record God's answer to Job. But what brought about his calamity in the first place?

Job 1:8-11 - Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." (NIV)


To put it in a nutshell, Satan wanted to test Job's faith and God allowed it. During the great trib, Satan is again given permission to test our faith and this time he is allowed to harm our bodies and kill some of us! Why? Because now we are in Christ and our enemy; death, has been triumphed over through Jesus Christ. See also, Dan. 7:25 and Rev. 13:7-10.


For some reason the church in America thinks it is above every other nation where tribulation is something they deal with on a daily basis like our brothers and sisters in the Middle East, China, Africa and now Russia is getting back in on it. We are not special! For those who believe the church is the bride and don’t want to think that Jesus would “allow” His bride to endure such evil consider that in your belief, do you not realize that the billions of believers who have been martyred for their faith over the last 2 millennia were part of His “bride” as well!


This isn’t a matter of changing salvation by grace into one of works. The Godhead is just wondering how deep is your faith and how did the seed land in your heart? Jesus loved us unto death and He expects us to be at willing to do the same for Him as well. That’s why he tells us to “take up our crosses and follow Him”.


Check out the connection in these two verses. First, the prophecy about the Messiah in Is. 53:7 - “He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

Paul while speaking of the church, teaches in Rom. 8:35-36 - “Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”

He is affirming that no matter in what dreadful circumstances we find ourselves in these latter days, our focus should remain on Christ and His never-ending love for us.

Jesus also taught in Matt. 10:28 - “And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” and He tells us where those who are martyred go until they can be reunited w/ their perfected bodies in Rev. 6:9 - “And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:”

In closing, I urge you to share these teachings with your children and grandchildren so they will not be caught unawares in the turbulent time we find ourselves. Who knows how long these things take to develop? It may start slowly with our generation and finish in our children’s generation, only time will tell. But with all these warnings by Christ to the church, I don’t thing it unwarranted to physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually prepare yourself and your families for what might be heading our way and that you might find yourselves here longer than you expected.
 
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THE GREAT TRIBULATION

This study will be from perspective of 1 Pet. 4:12-18. The words in parenthesis are the definitions from the Strong’s regarding the previous word(s).

12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial (a calamitous testing of trustworthiness) which is to try (prove yourself through adversity and temptation) you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: 13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings (hardships); that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. 14 If ye be reproached (taunted, reviled) for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. 15 But let none of you suffer (a painful experience) as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. 16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. 17 For the time is come that judgment ( a decision for or against) must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely (with great difficulty and hard work) be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

For clarification’s sake let’s contrast the word “judgment”. For example, the “judgment” seat of Christ in 2 Co. 5:10 means to “convene and talk together”. Not the same is it? How will this time of judgment occur? I believe it will occur in the time of the Great Tribulation. There are many errant ideas about this time so let’s clarify what it is not! The great tribulation is NOT the latter part of the 70th week, it is NOT the “time of Jacob’s troubles”, it is NOT upon Israel. The term “tribulation” should never have been used to describe the 70th week. Why? Because the bible never refers to it that way. Are there other scriptures that speak of this? Yes, there are many!

James 1:2-4 - "Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything." (NIV)

Matt. 13:18-22 - "Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path. The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away. The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful. (NIV)

The idea why Great Trib upon the church is explained in 1 Peter 1:5-7 - ..."who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. These have come so that your faith--of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire--may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed." (NIV)

See also: Rom. 5:3, 8:35, 2 Cor. 8:2, 13:5-7(NIV), 1 Thess. 3:4 and Rev. 2:10 and 3:10.

This time, imo, is also ,imo, the reason for the apostasy, the great “falling away” per 2 Thess. 2:3 - Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition…“ (KJV) This word apostasy is derived from the Greek word “apostasia“. My dictionary defines apostasy as, “the abandonment of a former allegiance as in turning away from one’s religious faith.” However, in order to be apostate one had to have a genuine faith to be begin with. Being a false religion as some believe Catholicism is, just doesn’t cut it.

Is there any precedence for this in scripture? Sure, let's take a trip down memory lane to the book of Job. You know the story, he was the richest man on earth yet he lost everything, family, house, possessions, etc. Similar to some of the losses we may face as believers in the midst of the great tribulation. He questions God about the unfairness and seeming injustice of all that befell him. Chapters 38-41 record God's answer to Job. But what brought about his calamity in the first place?

Job 1:8-11 - Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." (NIV)


To put it in a nutshell, Satan wanted to test Job's faith and God allowed it. During the great trib, Satan is again given permission to test our faith and this time he is allowed to harm our bodies and kill some of us! Why? Because now we are in Christ and our enemy; death, has been triumphed over through Jesus Christ. See also, Dan. 7:25 and Rev. 13:7-10.


For some reason the church in America thinks it is above every other nation where tribulation is something they deal with on a daily basis like our brothers and sisters in the Middle East, China, Africa and now Russia is getting back in on it. We are not special! For those who believe the church is the bride and don’t want to think that Jesus would “allow” His bride to endure such evil consider that in your belief, do you not realize that the billions of believers who have been martyred for their faith over the last 2 millennia were part of His “bride” as well!


This isn’t a matter of changing salvation by grace into one of works. The Godhead is just wondering how deep is your faith and how did the seed land in your heart? Jesus loved us unto death and He expects us to be at willing to do the same for Him as well. That’s why he tells us to “take up our crosses and follow Him”.


Check out the connection in these two verses. First, the prophecy about the Messiah in Is. 53:7 - “He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

Paul while speaking of the church, teaches in Rom. 8:35-36 - “Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”

He is affirming that no matter in what dreadful circumstances we find ourselves in these latter days, our focus should remain on Christ and His never-ending love for us.

Jesus also taught in Matt. 10:28 - “And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” and He tells us where those who are martyred go until they can be reunited w/ their perfected bodies in Rev. 6:9 - “And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:”

In closing, I urge you to share these teachings with your children and grandchildren so they will not be caught unawares in the turbulent time we find ourselves. Who knows how long these things take to develop? It may start slowly with our generation and finish in our children’s generation, only time will tell. But with all these warnings by Christ to the church, I don’t thing it unwarranted to physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually prepare yourself and your families for what might be heading our way and that you might find yourselves here longer than you expected.

There is no 'The Great Tribulation'. Although, there is great tribulation.
 

Keraz

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1 Peter 4:12, refers to the Sixth Seal, the terrible Day of the Lord by fire from the sun. Isaiah 30:26-30, Isaiah 66:15-17, Malachi 4:1-3, Romans 1:18, + over 100 other prophesies about the Day the Lord resets our civilization to a similar degree as it was in the days of Noah.
It will be the event that sets the scene for all that must happen before Jesus Returns.

We should be aware and prepared for it.
The Great Tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls will take place during the final 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns. Then; the faithful Christians will be in a place of safety. Revelation 12:14.
 

Trekson

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1 Peter 4:12, refers to the Sixth Seal, the terrible Day of the Lord by fire from the sun. Isaiah 30:26-30, Isaiah 66:15-17, Malachi 4:1-3, Romans 1:18, + over 100 other prophesies about the Day the Lord resets our civilization to a similar degree as it was in the days of Noah.
It will be the event that sets the scene for all that must happen before Jesus Returns.

We should be aware and prepared for it.
The Great Tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls will take place during the final 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns. Then; the faithful Christians will be in a place of safety. Revelation 12:14.

Sorry Keraz but, imo the GT has zero to do w/ the last part of the 70th week and those in safety will only be the 144,000+, the church will have been raptured before the wrath begins.
 

Jay Ross

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Sorry Keraz but, imo the GT has zero to do w/ the last part of the 70th week and those in safety will only be the 144,000+, the church will have been raptured before the wrath begins.

But the Rapture theory is like Satan's conspiracy theory explanation as to why Christians will not suffer during his times of oppression of the saints.

If you tell a lie enough times people will begin to believe it rather that believing the word of God as presented in the scriptures.

Shalom
 

Trekson

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But the Rapture theory is like Satan's conspiracy theory explanation as to why Christians will not suffer during his times of oppression of the saints.

If you tell a lie enough times people will begin to believe it rather that believing the word of God as presented in the scriptures.

Shalom

Really Jay! I take it you didn't read the OP. If you had, you would've seen that I wrote the exact opposite of what you think I would have said!
 

Jay Ross

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Really Jay! I take it you didn't read the OP. If you had, you would've seen that I wrote the exact opposite of what you think I would have said!

Really, and did you get the connection, between the second half of the 70 week and what I have written.
 

Trekson

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Really, and did you get the connection, between the second half of the 70 week and what I have written.

The timing of Rev. 13 has nothing to do w/ a first half and a second half, that is man's opinion. Yes, it makes a nice mathematical picture but the bible never speaks of it that way. The great trib will end well before the "second" half begins. Only a pre-trib rapture provides the escape, all the other rapture viewpoints do not.
 

Jay Ross

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The timing of Rev. 13 has nothing to do w/ a first half and a second half, that is man's opinion. Yes, it makes a nice mathematical picture but the bible never speaks of it that way. The great trib will end well before the "second" half begins. Only a pre-trib rapture provides the escape, all the other rapture viewpoints do not.

Please, quote what I have posted, as I made no reference to Rev. 13 as your post seems to imply.

My comment was a one off post with a reflection on the fact that the Rapture theory has an escape clause in it and comes from Satan and is not supported by Scripture.

Other than that I made no reference to any of the Rapture "theories" as to when they will happen. It is my view that we have to accept Paul's guidance as to when we are raptured.
 

Timtofly

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Other than that I made no reference to any of the Rapture "theories" as to when they will happen. It is my view that we have to accept Paul's guidance as to when we are raptured.
Paul states before the final harvest. The point is people have the Second Coming in the wrong place. Christ comes to gather the harvest so the Second Coming and the harvest happen before the 7th Trumpet. The 7th Trumpet is the completion. There is no way a harvest can happen post "only Satan worshippers". Satan only gets the gleanings or left overs. Satan does not get first dibs before the Lamb.
 

Jay Ross

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Paul states before the final harvest. The point is people have the Second Coming in the wrong place. Christ comes to gather the harvest so the Second Coming and the harvest happen before the 7th Trumpet. The 7th Trumpet is the completion. There is no way a harvest can happen post "only Satan worshippers". Satan only gets the gleanings or left overs. Satan does not get first dibs before the Lamb.

Oh well, it seems that you know all of the answers then from a pre-trib perspective. Something that I have not found in scripture.
 
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Trekson

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Paul states before the final harvest. The point is people have the Second Coming in the wrong place. Christ comes to gather the harvest so the Second Coming and the harvest happen before the 7th Trumpet. The 7th Trumpet is the completion. There is no way a harvest can happen post "only Satan worshippers". Satan only gets the gleanings or left overs. Satan does not get first dibs before the Lamb.

Paul's timing of, after the man of sin is revealed, is what I believe as well. As far as we know Paul had absolutely no knowledge of the 7 trumpets. I hate to burst your bible but the 7th trump is simply that, no more, no less, it is not the last trump Paul is speaking of. I believe that references Zech. 9:14. After the 7th trump we still have, the seven vials, the destruction of Babylon and Armageddon to go. I believe the rapture to be after the 6th seal and Rev. 7:9 shows our arrival in heaven.
 

101G

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not saying that anyone is right or wrong, consider this, "GREAT" not an event, but over a LONG period of time. Michael BoryAlis made reference to it. tribulation has been going on for a LONG time... hence "GREAT". scripture, Revelation 1:9 "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ."

Now John was in the Kingdom, and yet ..... excuse my words, catching hell. as was with the other apostles. but the reason why I make the case for a long period of time, is this. another word for tribulation is "affliction". Acts 7:9 "And the patriarchs, moved with envy, sold Joseph into Egypt: but God was with him,"
Acts 7:10 "And delivered him out of all his afflictions, and gave him favour and wisdom in the sight of Pharaoh king of Egypt; and he made him governor over Egypt and all his house."
Acts 7:11 "Now there came a dearth over all the land of Egypt and Chanaan, and great affliction: and our fathers found no sustenance."

in both cases, it took time in these "affliction"/tribulation. Joseph in prison, which he stayed for a period of time, and the children of Israel in Egypt, in great affliction/ tribulation for about 400 years.

so to me I see the "GREAT" tribulation as a Long period of time instead of a one time event.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

Timtofly

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Paul's timing of, after the man of sin is revealed, is what I believe as well. As far as we know Paul had absolutely no knowledge of the 7 trumpets. I hate to burst your bible but the 7th trump is simply that, no more, no less, it is not the last trump Paul is speaking of. I believe that references Zech. 9:14. After the 7th trump we still have, the seven vials, the destruction of Babylon and Armageddon to go. I believe the rapture to be after the 6th seal and Rev. 7:9 shows our arrival in heaven.
Daniel says a week is split in half. Daniel 9:27


27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

This desolation is Satan’s 42 months. The 7th Trumpet is an 8 day week from Sunday to Sunday. The Trumpet stops at 6pm Sunday after-noon. The battle of Armageddon is the one hour of 10 kings facing Christ at Armageddon. Sunday 5pm to 6pm. The last hour of the 7th Trumpet. The last 3.5 days of the week, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, until Sunday 6am, is when the 2 witnesses lay dead in Jerusalem. It is when the 7 vials are poured out. The 7th Trumpet last the whole 8 days. Even when 42 months are inserted into Wednesday. The 42 months do not replace the last 4 days. The end of the 7th Trumpet happens after the last 4 days, and after the 42 month interruption (of desolation) that splits this week, and only after the last 4 days are the consummation of sin on earth. The 7th Trumpet is the end of Adam's punishment and the end of sin itself.

There is not another 3.5 years after this 42 months. There is only Thursday to Sunday.
 

Trekson

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Daniel says a week is split in half. Daniel 9:27


27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

This desolation is Satan’s 42 months. The 7th Trumpet is an 8 day week from Sunday to Sunday. The Trumpet stops at 6pm Sunday after-noon. The battle of Armageddon is the one hour of 10 kings facing Christ at Armageddon. Sunday 5pm to 6pm. The last hour of the 7th Trumpet. The last 3.5 days of the week, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, until Sunday 6am, is when the 2 witnesses lay dead in Jerusalem. It is when the 7 vials are poured out. The 7th Trumpet last the whole 8 days. Even when 42 months are inserted into Wednesday. The 42 months do not replace the last 4 days. The end of the 7th Trumpet happens after the last 4 days, and after the 42 month interruption (of desolation) that splits this week, and only after the last 4 days are the consummation of sin on earth. The 7th Trumpet is the end of Adam's punishment and the end of sin itself.

There is not another 3.5 years after this 42 months. There is only Thursday to Sunday.

I'm glad you've got this all figured out in your mind anyways.
 

Keraz

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I believe the rapture to be after the 6th seal and Rev. 7:9 shows our arrival in heaven.
The Bible never says there will be a removal of the Church to heaven.
And nowhere in Revelation 7 is heaven mentioned. ALL of that Chapter is describing earthly scenes.

The Great Tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls will occur during the 42 month period of Satans world control. Rev 13:5-8
Then Jesus will Return; at the 7th Bowl; Rev 16:16-17 Their is no other time that fits.
 

Trekson

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The Bible never says there will be a removal of the Church to heaven.
And nowhere in Revelation 7 is heaven mentioned. ALL of that Chapter is describing earthly scenes.

The Great Tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls will occur during the 42 month period of Satans world control. Rev 13:5-8
Then Jesus will Return; at the 7th Bowl; Rev 16:16-17 Their is no other time that fits.

Seeing as John is in heaven receiving the vision and the throne as described in 7:11 is in heaven, it's not a stretch to see that the great multitude has arrived in heaven. I believe we'll travel back and forth to heaven as He desires until heaven via the NJ comes to this planet.
 

Keraz

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Seeing as John is in heaven receiving the vision and the throne as described in 7:11 is in heaven, it's not a stretch to see that the great multitude has arrived in heaven. I believe we'll travel back and forth to heaven as He desires until heaven via the NJ comes to this planet.
The whole idea of people going to heaven is impossible and is never said to happen in the Bible.
Only after the Millennium, will those worthy receive immortality, but they all remain on earth and God comes to dwell with then there. Revelation 21:1-7

The vast multitude that John sees in Rev 7:9, are all the faithful living people who have stood firm in their faith and trusted the Lord for His protection during His just happened; Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, as stated in Revelation 7:1-14