New heaven new earth???

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BARNEY BRIGHT

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Well I have been walking with the Lord for over 46 years now and I know of no sect that says you have to believe in hell, immortality in order to be saved.

If one is saved then eventually they will come to know that God is triune because of teh Holy Spirit.

There is only one requirement Gods Word says is necessary for salvation: That one places their trust in the death and physical resurrectionn of Jesus as the full payment of their sin debt before God the Father.

Catholicism, and maybe a few minor minor sects believe they are the one true religion like the cult of the Watchtower does. But christianity as defined by SCriputre is the one true faith on the earth.

Then you don't even know the world you live in. Christendom has always said that only those who believe in the Trinity doctrine, immortality of the soul, and the hellfire doctrine are Christians and I've grew up with people saying if you don't believe in these doctrines you're not a Christian. Even heard it on this site we texting on Ronald.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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No they feel nothing! And yes when death and the grave are thrown into the lake of fire, both death and the grave will be destroyed (meaning they will have no more hold on mankind)

But you forget th eWord of God and the order it is written:

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Death and hell are destroyed first! If they are destroyed they no longer exist! If they no longer exist, then when people are thrown into the lake of fire, death does not exist any more and they suffer forever because of their rejection of Jesus as Messiah! there are several verses that show that people suffer forever in the lake of fire.




Ou forget what God said in Hebrews, it is not the flesh, but teh blood that is given as a sacrifice for sin.

YOu also deny any resurrection. The word is "ana-stasia" which means a standing again. In order for something to stand again it must be laid down (in this case death). So if you reject the bible truth that Jesus "stood again" in His own body He died in- then you are forced to believe He died as a spirit creature for I know you believe in the Watchtower doctrine which adds to teh Bible to try to justify getting people to deny the physical resurrection of Jesus!



YOu err for you know not the Scriptures nor the power of God!

1 Corinthians 15:20
But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1 Corinthians 15:23
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

1 Corinthians 15:35-55
King James Version

35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

I understand that you and I are going to disagree. You haven't said anything I've hadn't heard before from others, just as these others haven't convinced me I'm wrong neither have you. So like I said we're going to have to agree to disagree.
 

theefaith

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It was God Himself on the Cross. And yes, God can do anything, even be the propitiation for sin. God is the only sacrifice that God would accept. The human body returned to dust. The scars are still in the incorruptible body. Lazarus was the first example of what Jesus Himself would do the week of the Cross.

Jn 20:28
 

theefaith

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Ephesians 2:8-9
King James Version

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 10:9-11
King James Version

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

verses refers to redemption not salvation

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ!
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...

Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love!
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Then Once saved always saved!

1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)
 

Ronald Nolette

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And I will always say shame on you and those like you who say evil is what God knowingly brought into this world. Just because you and others say that God knew that the Angel he created would be a Satan and a Devil doesn't make that true. Also if saying that God didn't know that the Angel he created he didn't know this Angel would be a Satan and an Devil doesn't match what you believe the definition is of the word omniscient which applies to God, then that's Tough. The True God isn't hemmed in by your definitions or beliefs as applied to the word omniscient. It's just what you believe and you have a right to your belief.


You are so clouded by watchtower in indoctrination that you cannot even realize that you are saying God is not omniscient. That Satans sin and Adam and eves sin caught Him by surprise or something like that. You can shame me all you want. For it is the Word fo God you shame by spouting Watchtower doctrine.

I believe that God sent his only begotten Son to die as a sacrifice for mankind because that's what the scriptures tell me. (John 3:16; 1John 4:9) If you and others want to believe it was God who became human, that's your right. I believe however that's denying it was the Only-Begotten Son of God who became human.

No one believes God teh Father became man! But the bible clearly and unambiguously tell us that God the Son who in the OT is called Jehovah just like HIs Father, became man to die on the cross for the sins of the World!
 

Ronald Nolette

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Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love!
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Then Once saved always saved!

Now I understand why you resist Biblical Doctrine in these areas. YOu hold to Catholic dogma as I had until I read teh Bible apart form teh glasses of Roman Catholicism.

YOu should do what I did, go study these words in the original and find you have taken some out of their context, and some out of their rightful meaning.

Salvation, every time it appears does not mean the saving of the soul!

And sanctification? That also is the work of god. Our good deeds and virtue and prayer and good works are simply theoutworking or visible sign of God working to chsange the inner man so the outer man can obey!
 

theefaith

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Now I understand why you resist Biblical Doctrine in these areas. YOu hold to Catholic dogma as I had until I read teh Bible apart form teh glasses of Roman Catholicism.

YOu should do what I did, go study these words in the original and find you have taken some out of their context, and some out of their rightful meaning.

Salvation, every time it appears does not mean the saving of the soul!

And sanctification? That also is the work of god. Our good deeds and virtue and prayer and good works are simply theoutworking or visible sign of God working to chsange the inner man so the outer man can obey!

Dogma is biblical
De fide or thee faith
The faith of Christ Jude 1:3
Eph 4:5

grace gives life
It makes our faith and works meritorious
 

Timtofly

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I believe that God sent his only begotten Son to die as a sacrifice for mankind because that's what the scriptures tell me. (John 3:16; 1John 4:9) If you and others want to believe it was God who became human, that's your right. I believe however that's denying it was the Only-Begotten Son of God who became human.
I am not questioning the distinct aspect of the 3 persons of the Trinity. I am saying that as one, that second, the Trinity was 100% on the Cross.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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No they feel nothing! And yes when death and the grave are thrown into the lake of fire, both death and the grave will be destroyed (meaning they will have no more hold on mankind)

But you forget th eWord of God and the order it is written:

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Death and hell are destroyed first! If they are destroyed they no longer exist! If they no longer exist, then when people are thrown into the lake of fire, death does not exist any more and they suffer forever because of their rejection of Jesus as Messiah! there are several verses that show that people suffer forever in the lake of fire.




Ou forget what God said in Hebrews, it is not the flesh, but teh blood that is given as a sacrifice for sin.

YOu also deny any resurrection. The word is "ana-stasia" which means a standing again. In order for something to stand again it must be laid down (in this case death). So if you reject the bible truth that Jesus "stood again" in His own body He died in- then you are forced to believe He died as a spirit creature for I know you believe in the Watchtower doctrine which adds to teh Bible to try to justify getting people to deny the physical resurrection of Jesus!



YOu err for you know not the Scriptures nor the power of God!

1 Corinthians 15:20
But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1 Corinthians 15:23
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

1 Corinthians 15:35-55
King James Version

35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Like I said we're going to have to agree to disagree, you haven't said anything to me that others haven't said. Those others haven't convinced me I'm wrong about what I believe to be scriptural and neither have you.
Also let's get something straight, I've always believed that Jesus was resurrected with a different body than he had before his death. The scriptures tell us when Jesus was resurrected he had an immortal incorruptible body, he was a life giving Spirit. You and others don't want to believe the scriptures,so be it. That's your right.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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I am not questioning the distinct aspect of the 3 persons of the Trinity. I am saying that as one, that second, the Trinity was 100% on the Cross.

I don't believe in the trinity. No such doctrine isn't in the scriptures, that I've seen. What other people choose to see is their choice. However from all the definitions people have on this doctrine the one thing they have in common is that they all deny that the Only Begotten Son of God is the Word therefore this doctrine denies that it was the Only-begotten Son of God who became human and die for humans.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Ronald Nolette said:
No one believes God the Father became man! But the bible clearly and unambiguously tell us that God the Son who in the OT is called Jehovah just like HIs Father, became man to die on the cross for the sins of the World![/Quote\]

I know that people don't listen to Jesus but if you open your own Bible to John 20:17 and read Jesus’ own words near the end of that verse he says: “I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.” Jesus says this after his resurrection and the scriptures show us that Jesus was given immortality and inherit incorruption and Jesus still says he has a God and Father who is our God and Father. I don't expect you to believe this but I do. I don't think Jesus was lying when he said that. Even in the book of Revelation it is stated that Jesus has a God. In Revelation the glorified Lord Jesus Christ repeatedly speaks of his Father as “my God.” At Revelation 3:12, for example, we read: “The one that conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which descends out of heaven from my God, and that new name of mine.” like I said I don't expect you to agree with what Jesus Christ said.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Ronald Nolette said:
No one believes God teh Father became man! But the bible clearly and unambiguously tell us that God the Son who in the OT is called Jehovah just like HIs Father, became man to die on the cross for the sins of the World![/Quote\]

Those who have no faith consistently deny Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God.
Jesus asked his disciples who they believed he was. Did Simon Peter reply: “You are God”? No. Peter said: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Did Jesus correct Peter? No, Jesus said: “Happy you are, Simon son of Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father who is in the heavens did.”—Matthew 16:15-17.

When on earth, Jesus Christ called and chose twelve apostles. These were all Jews by birth and were brought up in the “Jews’ religion” or in Judaism, to believe in only one God, Jehovah. (Gal. 1:13, 14, AV) Did Jesus as their Teacher tell them about a Trinity? Did he convert them to believe in a Trinity in which he himself was the Second Person or “God the Son”? Did the apostles and other disciples get to regarding Jesus as “God the Son” and calling him such? What did they call him?
Think, for a moment, about the angel who announced Jesus’ birth to Mary. He did not say her child would be God, but that he would be “God’s Son.” (Luke 1:35) And rather than saying, as do some, that “God Himself” came to earth to provide the ransom, the Scriptures say “God sent forth his Son” to do this.—Galatians 4:4, 5; 1 John 4:9, 10.

God himself testified that Jesus was his beloved Son, as the Bible writer Matthew noted when Jesus was baptized. (Matthew 3:17) Other Bible writers noted the same. Mark wrote: “A voice came out of the heavens: ‘You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you.’” (Mark 1:11) Luke said: “A voice came out of heaven: ‘You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you.’” (Luke 3:22) And John the Baptizer, who baptized Jesus, testified: “I have borne witness that this one [Jesus] is the Son of God.” (John 1:34) So God himself, all four Gospel writers, and John the Baptizer clearly state that Jesus was and is the Son of God. They never called him, "God the Son."
 

Timtofly

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I don't believe in the trinity. No such doctrine isn't in the scriptures, that I've seen. What other people choose to see is their choice. However from all the definitions people have on this doctrine the one thing they have in common is that they all deny that the Only Begotten Son of God is the Word therefore this doctrine denies that it was the Only-begotten Son of God who became human and die for humans.
Are you denying that Jesus Christ is God's only begotten Son as well as the Word?
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Are you denying that Jesus Christ is God's only begotten Son as well as the Word?

No I'm not denying Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God, you are, if you believe in the Trinity. As I said the Trinity doctrine says Jesus is God, it doesn't teach people that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God. I believe the Only Begotten Son of God to be the Word that became human. Those who believe in the Trinity doctrine believe God is the Word so they believe it was God who became human. They don't believe it was the Only Begotten Son of God who became human.
 

Timtofly

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No I'm not denying Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God, you are, if you believe in the Trinity. As I said the Trinity doctrine says Jesus is God, it doesn't teach people that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God. I believe the Only Begotten Son of God to be the Word that became human. Those who believe in the Trinity doctrine believe God is the Word so they believe it was God who became human. They don't believe it was the Only Begotten Son of God who became human.
So you believe in 3 different Gods? There is only one GOD. In this creation GOD is manifested in 3 persons. These 3 are still the same GOD. You are not your body, but your body is you. You do not have access to your spirit, sin separated us from our spirit, which is in the presence of God. You are only a soul. Your body will return to dust because it is dead in sin, corruptible.

Your soul will one day move into a permanent incorruptible body, and your spirit will be put on like a robe of white and you will be glorified. Now you are just a soul, quickened by the Holy Spirit on loan from God. We are 1 in a body that makes 2, and a spirit that will make 3. God the Father is a spirit, our outer robe of white is our spirit. The soul is who we are in similar fashion as the Holy Spirit or pneuma (wind/breadth of God). Our outer body of flesh is the Son part of God, the Word that was made flesh. These three parts of the image of God make up who we are as sons of God in God's creation. They bear witness to how God is manifested in His creation, Lord God (Father), the Word (Jesus Christ), and the Power (The Holy Spirit).
 

Ronald Nolette

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Dogma is biblical
De fide or thee faith
The faith of Christ Jude 1:3
Eph 4:5

grace gives life
It makes our faith and works meritorious

Much of Catholic dogma is very very unbiblical!

Grace does not make our works meritorious- obedience to Good in the work makes it meritoriuous!

1 Corinthians 13
King James Version

13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

Bill Gates has given $billions away and from divine perspective it has profited him nothing!!!
 

Ronald Nolette

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Like I said we're going to have to agree to disagree, you haven't said anything to me that others haven't said. Those others haven't convinced me I'm wrong about what I believe to be scriptural and neither have you.
Also let's get something straight, I've always believed that Jesus was resurrected with a different body than he had before his death. The scriptures tell us when Jesus was resurrected he had an immortal incorruptible body, he was a life giving Spirit. You and others don't want to believe the scriptures,so be it. That's your right.


That is truly sad! To reject the physical resurrection of Jesus from the dead is to reject any hope for salvation!

Once again you need to remember this:

in or der for something to be resurrected (ana-stasis: stood up AGAIN) it had to lie down! what of Jesus was lain down? HIs body!

1 Corinthians 15:17-18
King James Version

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

John 2:20-22
King James Version

20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

Even Jesus Himself said His body would rise from the dead! So to deny His physical resurrection in order to believe Watchtower dogma- is to call Jesus a liar!
 

Ronald Nolette

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I've always believed that Jesus was resurrected with a different body than he had before his death. The scriptures tell us when Jesus was resurrected he had an immortal incorruptible body, he was a life giving Spirit. You and others don't want to believe the scriptures,so be it. That's your right.

Same body but the firstfruits of the resurrection:

1 Corinthians 15:35-47
King James Version

35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.


Same body all believers in Christ death and physical resurrection will get. Just like His!

God did not destroy the old and replaced it with a new physical body. He resurrected teh dead body and glorified it! It was not a spirit that rose from the dread but a real body.

Luke 24:36-43
King James Version

36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?

42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

43 And he took it, and did eat before them.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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So you believe in 3 different Gods? There is only one GOD. In this creation GOD is manifested in 3 persons. These 3 are still the same GOD. You are not your body, but your body is you. You do not have access to your spirit, sin separated us from our spirit, which is in the presence of God. You are only a soul. Your body will return to dust because it is dead in sin, corruptible.

Your soul will one day move into a permanent incorruptible body, and your spirit will be put on like a robe of white and you will be glorified. Now you are just a soul, quickened by the Holy Spirit on loan from God. We are 1 in a body that makes 2, and a spirit that will make 3. God the Father is a spirit, our outer robe of white is our spirit. The soul is who we are in similar fashion as the Holy Spirit or pneuma (wind/breadth of God). Our outer body of flesh is the Son part of God, the Word that was made flesh. These three parts of the image of God make up who we are as sons of God in God's creation. They bear witness to how God is manifested in His creation, Lord God (Father), the Word (Jesus Christ), and the Power (The Holy Spirit).

You're the one who believes the Holy Spirit to be a person not me. I agree the scriptures personify the Holy Spirit but that in itself doesn't make the Holy Spirit a person. The scriptures personify death, wisdom and sin but that doesn't mean they are persons. When it comes to the Holy Spirit you can see a figure of speech in these words in the scriptures: “The helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you”? (John 14:26) Some take this to mean that the holy spirit is an actual person. But it is so often mentioned together with other impersonal forces or things that that cannot be true. (Matthew 3:11; Ephesians 5:18; Acts 6:3, 5; 13:52; 2 Corinthians 6:4-8) Jesus was clearly using the figure of speech we call personification. So I believe The Only True God to be Jehovah and I believe his Only Begotten Son Jesus to be a God.
Also remember that the scriptures say Satan is a God at 2Corinthians 4:4. The angels are also referred to as “godlike ones.” (Psalm 8:5; Hebrews 2:7) That doesn't mean any should be worshipped except The True God Jehovah.


You said to me "you do not have access to your spirit, sin separated us from our spirit, which is in the presence of God. You are only a soul. Your body will return to dust because it is dead in sin, corruptible."
This is all bogus and it goes against scripture. At Genesis 2:7 kjv- it says Adam became a Soul after God blew the breath of life into the body he had formed. So man is what he always was from the time God created him, a Soul.
Also look at Luke 8:54, 55 , of Jesus’ raising Jairus’ daughter to life say: “But taking her by the hand he called, saying, ‘Child, arise.’ And her spirit returned, and she got up at once”? Yes. Are we, then, to reason from this that, before Jesus raised Jairus’ girl to life, her spirit was alive in a spirit world and that it had returned to God who gave it and was living with him? No; for the “spirit” is not, “the etheric body of an individual having all his characteristics. . . . the exact counterpart of the physical portion of the individual.” According to the Bible the spirit (ruʹahh, Hebrew; pneuʹma, Greek) is God’s invisible active force that causes life or makes alive.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Once again you need to remember this: that knowingly and willingly sacrificed that human life he had so that humanity could be saved.
That is truly sad! To reject the physical resurrection of Jesus from the dead is to reject any hope for salvation!

Once again you need to remember this:

in or der for something to be resurrected (ana-stasis: stood up AGAIN) it had to lie down! what of Jesus was lain down? HIs body!

1 Corinthians 15:17-18
King James Version

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

John 2:20-22
King James Version

20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

Even Jesus Himself said His body would rise from the dead! So to deny His physical resurrection in order to believe Watchtower dogma- is to call Jesus a liar!

You need to remember that Jesus knowingly and willfully came as a human to sacrifice his human body to save mankind. It was called a ransom sacrifice. Jesus didn't take that sacrifice back. He was resurrected with a body that was immortal and incorruptible, that's the truth. Jesus wasn't immortal or incorruptible before his sacrifice. He would not been able to be put to death if he were immortal before he was sacrificed. So don't tell me that Jesus wasn't resurrected with the same body before he died, the scriptures are saying that's not true. What you don't like is that the scriptures tell us that Jesus was given an immortal incorruptible body when he was resurrected and so will those humans who will be in heaven ruling with Jesus. They no longer have human bodies just as Jesus sacrificed his human body so do they. Jesus Christ was made a life giving spirit when he was resurrected.

At John 2:20-22: The context must be examined. Joh 2 Verses 13 to 18 show that Jesus had cleansed the literal temple at Jerusalem, routing from it those who were making it a place of merchandise, and as a result had been confronted with this question from the Jews: “What sign have you to show us, since you are doing these things?” Then in the 19th Joh 2 verse 19 Jesus told them the sign, which is the basis of our question. Joh 2 Verses 20-22 continue: “Therefore the Jews said: ‘This temple was built in forty-six years, and will you raise it up in three days?’ But he was talking about the temple of his body. When, though, he was raised up from the dead, his disciples called to mind that he used to say this.”

This setting shows that Jesus was not talking about his physical body, but “he was talking about the temple of his body”. The temple in Jerusalem that Jesus cleansed represented not Jesus alone but also the body-members over which he is head. Just as the literal temple was not made up of one stone but many, so “the temple of his body” consists of many living stones, with Jesus as the foundation cornerstone: “You yourselves also as living stones are being built up a spiritual house for the purpose of a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.” (1 Pet. 2:4-7, ) After the Jewish religionists rejected Christ the living stone and broke him down by death on the torture stake, on the third day thereafter Jehovah God raised him up to become the chief cornerstone of the temple of living stones then under preparation. He immediately appeared to his disciples and lifted them up out of their despondency, built them up spiritually so that they could “offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God”. That this building of “the temple of his body” started then and continued through the years that followed is shown by Peter’s use of the present tense when years afterward he said Christ’s followers “are being built up a spiritual house”.