'....because they refused to love the truth ....'

quietthinker said:

In the text of the OP 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 'lawlessness' is mentioned twice as well as 'wickedness' mentioned twice.....the connection between the two being clear. Isn't it interesting that the many debates that the law has been done away with qualifies as no Law.....in other words lawlessness. It is an oxymoron to speak of desiring to do God's will while simultaneously doing away with his Law.

Obedience and Lawlessness do not coexist in one who loves Jesus. To believe it can is the powerful delusion the text speaks of and it calls it for what it is...wickedness.

A poster in another thread made this observation....
'Their 'T(less)-shirt' or 'bumpkin sticker' slogan would go something like this:
"Everybody should love & obey God, just don't tell me exactly how to do that!"

Thus the words "love" and "obey" become devoid of substance, or meaning. They are then simply placeholders of empty space. When in reality what they really mean is, ""Love & obey" means I do what I want (self-righteousness)."

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But you see, by keeping the law well you say you but do not, you are in disobedience, because you see, you profane the sabbath even that one , because teh law is not of faith it is of your own works, so you have never come into His rest, so you see, you break every one every day, that is not obedience, it is a slap in His face, His works are not good enough for you., you seek judgment, judgement is for those who have not put on His righteousness, it is the back door, for thieves and robbers.

quietthinker said:

twist it anyway you like....that is the nature of strong delusion!

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As you said just that it is isnt it, you should go back and read your own post.

quietthinker said:

In the text of the OP 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 'lawlessness' is mentioned twice as well as 'wickedness' mentioned twice.....the connection between the two being clear. Isn't it interesting that the many debates that the law has been done away with qualifies as no Law.....in other words lawlessness. It is an oxymoron to speak of desiring to do God's will while simultaneously doing away with his Law.

Obedience and Lawlessness do not coexist in one who loves Jesus. To believe it can is the powerful delusion the text speaks of and it calls it for what it is...wickedness.

A poster in another thread made this observation....
'Their 'T(less)-shirt' or 'bumpkin sticker' slogan would go something like this:
"Everybody should love & obey God, just don't tell me exactly how to do that!"

Thus the words "love" and "obey" become devoid of substance, or meaning. They are then simply placeholders of empty space. When in reality what they really mean is, ""Love & obey" means I do what I want (self-righteousness)."

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only was asking does care more about the truth revealed of the heart against Him and to turn from evil of being filled up with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness,
wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, [30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [31] Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Or whether or not one loves the total truth pushed by SDA? Calling it obedience with boasting and malicious name calling of being better than those who do not side their truth?

but have delighted in wickedness
Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Are you suggesting ‘delighted in wickedness’ and ‘have pleasure in them that do them’ are not similar? What is this delight or pleasure? Because the very next thing after ‘have pleasure in them’ is Romans 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

Not suggesting lawlessness. Not suggesting that we are to remain of a reprobate mind (which we have all been) but instead be transformed from the renewing of the mind...out from a reprobate mind ‘be transformed by the renewing of the mind’ into ‘but we have the mind of Christ’ Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

quietthinker said:

The mind of Christ was one of obedience.

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The mind of Christ is one of Love and faith, that is our obedience, it is not a work., in fact the only "work" we have to do is believe.

quietthinker said:

to your own disadvantage you use the scriptures.

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No to your advantage I use the bible, its to your disadvantage you refuse to go to Christ, to your own demise. Religion is not Jesus and Jesus will not partake in Harlotry, you do your self no favors but that is your will not His.

Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Luk 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
Luk 13:26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
Luk 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

quietthinker said:

The mind of Christ was one of obedience.

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yes, be you transformed by the renewing of the mind. I have questions. Realize we all see it differently and seldom agree on everything. Honestly quietthinker I’m not SDA. Question then is ...because I’m not SDA does that mean I’m disobedient to God?

Realize also this always becomes too long for post. But the point is in your OP “for this cause God sends delusion” ...a working of satan...because they love not the truth ...comes a working of satan, a lie that they might believe the delusion. it says(I think) a powerful (strong) delusion. Can not think of any stronger or more powerful delusion then not able to see our own “wicked” “reprobate” deeds and need to come clean before God(turning to Him) but would rather see ONLY those wicked reprobate deeds of others. an example was the priest blinged out and riding in great flashy honor with his fine robe with superiority while pointing a finger at another man and calling that man vain. Isn’t that delusion the priest not able to see his own depth of vanity but only that of another? What a powerful delusion and lie it is. Another, not to get on the subject of homosexual but...a man and wife cornering to homosexuals jabbing a finger at the two men saying their relationship will send them to hell because only a marriage of male and female displays God. While after the man and wife beat the homosexuals in their superior seat...the husband and wife go home and treat each other like pure enemies: fighting, accusing, unforgiving, demeaning and destroying one another. A powerful delusion, or lie might be their claim their relationship displays Christ anymore that the homosexuals relationship does. Hypocritical? Trying to remove the splinter while neglecting a beam? So I was only suggested maybe they love not the truth but prefer to believe a lie: could also be the priest would rather believe he is not also a vain man. or the married couple would rather believe their relationship displays Christ and His union with His body based off gender accompanied by no actions of mercy, grace, love, “natural care” nor forgiveness. ...yet so thankful “we are not like those homosexuals.” highminded is in the above list also. Is “highminded” the mind of Christ?

Your OP mentioned delusion and a strong lie, a working of satan...evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. What is deceiving and being deceived if not delusion and a lie? Timothy 3:2-14 what is delusion if not For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, [3] Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, [4] Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; [5] Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. [6] For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, [7] Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. [8] Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. [9] But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was. [10] But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, [11] Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. [12] Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. [13] But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

trucebreakers. What “truce” breakers, what “truce”, what admittance of no truce, if not Ephesians 2:13-18 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. [14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us ; [15] Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; [16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: [17] And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. [18] For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

2 Timothy 3:3 Lexicon: unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good,

Trucebreaker: irreconcilable,
786: without libation, i.e. without truce, hence admitting of no truce

2 Corinthians 5:19-20 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. [20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

mjrhealth said:

...in fact the only "work" we have to do is believe.

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If this refers to salvation by grace through faith, fine. Otherwise it is false.

Enoch111 said:

If this refers to salvation by grace through faith, fine. Otherwise it is false.

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And it could possibly mean what else????

quietthinker said:

Why did you splice SDA into this post ViJ? or was it arbitrary and any other denomination would have fitted?

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Because this is what this whole post is about,not Christ, but promoting your religion.

quietthinker said:

Why did you splice SDA into this post ViJ? or was it arbitrary and any other denomination would have fitted?

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you are right, I shouldn’t have. Maybe too quickly and unfairly I assumed “because they refused to love the truth” was hinting at SDA teachings and those who do not follow those teachings have refused to love the truth. More simply “because they refused to love the truth” in my opinion is they refuse to retain God in their mind, refuse to retain the mind of Christ and be transformed by the renewing of the mind out from a reprobate mind which leads to death. Romans 1:28

All those listed in a reprobate mind was not meant as an attack on you. They have been on my mind for weeks before you ever posted. One by one myself also looking at them because my own mind gets twisted and I forget His leading and promise and mercy to deliver out from evil. Was only trying to share especially of “trucebreaker” that it is one truce (reconciliation) to not be refuse, yea? “Be you reconciled unto God” Ephesians 2:13-18 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. [14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us ; [15] Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; [16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: [17] And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. [18] For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Honestly I’m not even sure I fully understand the above passage and what God has done for us in this truce of that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross,
...but I don’t want to reject His truce, or reconciliation...the reconciliation of all things unto God.

2 Corinthians 5:18-19 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; [19] To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Pretty amazing! And Hopeful!

quietthinker said:

2 Thessalonians 2:8-12
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

There are plenty who have their rendition of 'the truth' but the text above is not talking about a truth defined by any man or his dog....if dogs could define truth ie.

A mindset opposed to anything which brings to light error. A mindset unwilling to recognise the right in favour of a cherished erroneous view.... becomes irreversible

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I have this passage a little differently in my Bible.

2 Thessalonians 2:10
10) And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Do you have any thoughts on what it means to not receive the love of the truth?

Much love!

quietthinker said:

God is the determiner. Man's opinions carry no weight.

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Amen!!!

And we have SO MANY opinions!!

And for what?

Much love!

quietthinker said:

Do you think there might be a similarity between having the door shut and being under a powerful delusion?

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I do.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
11) And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12) That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

It seems to me the purpose of the delusion - literally 'working of error' - is to prevent further opportunity to be saved.

Much love!

quietthinker said:

Fundamentally I think its a rejection when the Spirit comes knocking on one's door. It becomes manifest as truths are revealed but cast aside. We can take Pilate as an example; 'what is truth' he asks when all the while the evidence is present ....reinforced by the message from his wife.

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I think I agree with this.

I've given a lot of thought towards what God means in the Bible when He calls someone a 'fool'. I've come to this, that the fool in the Bible ignores the truth of God to their own hurt. I think you have a good thought there, that this is simply not wanting to know what God wants for us to know.

Much love!