Are Jehovah’s Witness Christians?

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Truther

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if so then explain, John 3:31 "He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all."

tell us how he from above have human parents?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
That was the Father speaking through him per John 14.
 

101G

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That was the Father speaking through him per John 14.
ERROR, the Lord Jesus is speaking, scripture, John 8:21 "Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come." John 8:22 "Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come." John 8:23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world." well Truther, you error there.

Understand people, the Son of man is Spirit, and the Son of God is Flesh bone and blood, meaning it is the Spirit, "Shared", and was G2758 κενόω kenoo, who dwelt in that Flesh. the term "son of God" is the identity of the spirit that dwelt in that fleshly body. the Son of Man is not fleshly, but the spirit. and Truther listen up, the Lord Jesus did not come from the tribe of Judah, but "OUT" of the trib of Judah, not "FROM", listen and learn, Hebrews 7:14 "For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood."

so get is right ok......

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101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

Truther

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ERROR, the Lord Jesus is speaking, scripture, John 8:21 "Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come." John 8:22 "Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come." John 8:23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world." well Truther, you error there.

Understand people, the Son of man is Spirit, and the Son of God is Flesh bone and blood, meaning it is the Spirit, "Shared", and was G2758 κενόω kenoo, who dwelt in that Flesh. the term "son of God" is the identity of the spirit that dwelt in that fleshly body. the Son of Man is not fleshly, but the spirit. and Truther listen up, the Lord Jesus did not come from the tribe of Judah, but "OUT" of the trib of Judah, not "FROM", listen and learn, Hebrews 7:14 "For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood."

so get is right ok......

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
 

101G

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24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
John 10:30 "I and my Father are one." same one person, only diversified as I said... "the equal share", as Phil 2:6 states.... BINGO.... next.

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101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

101G

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ok, truther, you don't have the truth I see, will lets put to you the same question, Revelation 4:11 "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." is this the Father or the one whom you call the son?

and this way we can clear up the Father and son mystery. so who is it that sit on the throne here, your anser please.

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101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

101G

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Well truther? that's not a hard question to answer...... see, this is why cults survive because the people in them run away from the truth when confronted.

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101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

101G

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Again, this is what we all been saying, one must follow the Spirit..... he will guide you..... well it's the Son, the Lord Jesus who is the ORDINAL LAST that sits on the throne, as well as in Revelation chapter 5.... Revelation 5:6 "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth."Revelation 5:7 "And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne." ..say what? is it not Jesus the (LAMB), who stood and was dead, that took the book out of the hand of him that sits? :eek: YIKES!...
how can that be ....... :D ...... oh the beauity of "diversified oneness".... my God, when will the eyes of them be open.

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101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

jaybird

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HI JB,

Ummmm....I don't get your rational on how me being confident that I have found The Church spoken of in Scripture = forcing my will upon you. That makes no sense to me.

I agree with you that "2 opposing views will only interpret the scripture 2 different ways". That is why we have thousands of different denominations with 2-3 interpretations of the same passage of Scripture with each denomination claiming they have the right interpretation or truth. Hence Confusion reins in Christianity. Who is the author of confusion? This confusion started with the Reformation. Before the reformation there was (in general) One Church with One doctrine and One voice. The Apostles, a group of men, didn't have an "angel sent from the heavens" to make the decision that they did at the Council of Jerusalem that all Christians were bound to follow (Matthew 18:18). They had the Spirit guiding them.

SCENARIO: You felt that you had the Spirit with you on what the Truth is of a passage that you just read in Scripture. Your "truth" differed with another mans "truth" who also felt he had the Spirit with him. Is the Spirit confused or the two of you? Scripture makes it clear that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth, the men of The Church, guided by the Spirit, decide what the Truth is and we are to go to The Church to settle our differences. We are to have confidence in our Church leaders and submit to their authority (Hebrews 13:17)!! Which Church would you like to go to that you have confidence in so we can settle this matter between us?
People have been persecuted for not accepting the will of the church. Lots of war, burnings, inquisitions and all the rest, done by Catholic and non Catholic. IMO ones no better than the other.

I disagree on the reformation, it was needed. But I agree with you on the end result. After the reformation the end result had just as much corruption as they did before so they really were no better off.

I grew up baptist, I am assuming you Catholic. IMO both churches work fine, both have good teachers, but IMO one can only be a student for so long and eventually they have to go out on their own and trust that faith will lead them correctly. If not you are only following a group of men. I still go to church but church for me is only for praise and worship. My learning and improvement comes from my personal relationship with the Most High.

2 men study the same subject both think spirit leads them, they come to 2 conclusions. This problem troubled me when I was younger, made me worry, made me visit lots of churches, in the end I decided to not worry what the other man was thinking. I have not looked back since. If you spend your life worrying what others think you will be trapped in an endless cycle where your thoughts are never your own, only the thoughts of the last one you talked to.
 
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sho

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Jesus is the son of David and son of man through Mary and Nathan.
Jesus is the son of God through God.
 

101G

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Amen that's the first step in not staying brainwashed. you must take responsibility for youself. as the apostle Peter said on Pentecost, Acts 2:40 "And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation."

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101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

Ronald David Bruno

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Begotten denotes sexuality.

Mary's sex organs were used by God to produce Jesus, though she felt nothing.

This means her egg cell was fertilized by God(conceive).

Jesus is God's biologically begotten son, not spiritual born son.

Mary did not self fertilize the son of man. It took a fertilize-er.

Begotten means to bring into existence by the process of sexual reproduction but in this case without sex. Of course God created a perfect sperm cell to enter Mary's egg. I agree with everything you said. Is this supposed to be a rebuttal?
 
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101G

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Jesus is the son of David and son of man through Mary and Nathan.
Jesus is the son of God through God.
a note on these two genealogy in Matthews and Luke.. they are not genealogies of the Lord Jesus the christ, but LEGAL genealogies of the Christ

Matthews on Joseph legal side, the Promise King... Government. Luke on Mary legal side, the promise Priest, the High Priest ..... Ecclesiastical.

So Government, and Religion, the TRUE nature of God in our Lives. all men lives.

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101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

101G

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Begotten means to bring into existence by the process of sexual reproduction but in this case without sex. Of course God created a perfect sperm cell to enter Mary's egg. I agree with everything you said. Is this supposed to be a rebuttal?
Post scripture to that statement... book chapter verse.

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sho

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if so then explain, John 3:31 "He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all."

tell us how he from above have human parents?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
The earthly body of Jesus is from man, from his mother Mary. His heavenly mind is from God.
 

101G

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The earthly body of Jesus is from man, from his mother Mary. His heavenly mind is from God.
First thanks for the reply, second, the earthly body came OUT of mary, and not from mary... Correct, (Hebrews 10:5). then the spirit that was in that body is not from Mary either, or any other human, correct? lets see, Isaiah 42:5 "Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:" for when we die... naturally, our, hold it, not our spirits, but his spirit, that he gave us return to him. so the spirit within us is not ours.

so in conclusion, Mary was only the carrier of flesh and bone with blood, a baby. the only thing she and Joseph was to do is to make sure it was LEGAL, by staying married.

Matthew 1:19 "Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily."Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost."Matthew 1:21 "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins."Matthew 1:22 "Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,"Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."Matthew 1:24 "Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:"Matthew 1:25 "And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS."

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101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

Marymog

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People have been persecuted for not accepting the will of the church. Lots of war, burnings, inquisitions and all the rest, done by Catholic and non Catholic. IMO ones no better than the other.

I disagree on the reformation, it was needed. But I agree with you on the end result. After the reformation the end result had just as much corruption as they did before so they really were no better off.

I grew up baptist, I am assuming you Catholic. IMO both churches work fine, both have good teachers, but IMO one can only be a student for so long and eventually they have to go out on their own and trust that faith will lead them correctly. If not you are only following a group of men. I still go to church but church for me is only for praise and worship. My learning and improvement comes from my personal relationship with the Most High.

2 men study the same subject both think spirit leads them, they come to 2 conclusions. This problem troubled me when I was younger, made me worry, made me visit lots of churches, in the end I decided to not worry what the other man was thinking. I have not looked back since. If you spend your life worrying what others think you will be trapped in an endless cycle where your thoughts are never your own, only the thoughts of the last one you talked to.
Thank you. You have articulated your position very well.

Whether one follows/accepts a group of men and their teaching (interpretation of Scripture) or you follow your own interpretation of Scripture you are still following a man!

Mary
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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According to JW's, a virgin gave birth to an archangel.

This would have it's roots in the serpent seed religion.(angels mating with humans making hybrids). except in this case, God getting involved in the process.

Quite creepy....God turning an angel into a sperm cell to mate with Mary's human egg, creating Michael(Jesus) the hybrid.

Hollywood could run with this script....

Truther said:
According to JW's, a virgin gave birth to an archangel.[/Quote\]

You either don't know what you're talking about or you're outright lying about the JW.
JW have always claim that the Only Begotten Son of God became human to save humanity. You and I both know an Archangel isn't human.
What the JW teach is that before the Only Begotten Son of God became human, being born of a virgin, he was the Archangel Michael. That was when he was in heaven before he was born a human baby. So the JW have never taught that the virgin Mary gave birth to an Archangel.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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"Only begotten Son" means that Jesus was the only man ever begotten by the Holy Spirit. He had no human biological father. But spiritually, the pre-incarnate Jesus eternally existed. He emptied himself into Mary's womb. If one does not accept the triune God, then it will be difficult to accept Jesus as God. It is difficult to understand the Trinity, but we are shown this in scripture: "In the beginning Elohim (a plural form of God); at Jesus baptism, Father, Son and Holy Spirit were present and we are told to be baptized in the name of all three. We see a distinction between them. Jesus said, the Father will send you a Comforter, (a Helper, Counselor), Who will glorify Me and teach you all things that I have taught you ... and He said, this Comforter would not come until He ascended. He must go to the Father so the Holy Spirit could come and baptize believers, live in us, while He sits on the right hand of the Father in heaven. 3 persons = 1 God.
A, B, C ... easy as 1, 2, 3 ... do, re, mi, A, B, C, that's easy LOVE can be.

Ronald David Bruno said:
It is difficult to understand the Trinity, but we are shown this in scripture: "In the beginning Elohim (a plural form of God).[/Quote\]

The Hebrew word Elohim has never meant three persons in some Godhead. When applying to Jehovah, ʼElo·himʹ is used as a plural of majesty, dignity, or excellence. Genesis 1:1. Regarding this, Aaron Ember wrote: “That the language of the Old Testament has entirely given up the idea of plurality in hebrew word Elohim(as applied to the God of Israel) is especially shown by the fact that it is almost invariably construed with a singular verbal predicate, and takes a singular adjectival attribute. This means Elohim must rather be explained as an intensive plural, denoting greatness and
majesty, being equal to The Great God.”—The American Journal of Semitic Languages and Literatures, Vol. XXI, 1905, p. 208.

The point is it's been recognized that the hebrew word Elohim isn't talking about some plurality of persons in some godhead. When this word is used when speaking of the Only True God it's of only one person.
 
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Gregory

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John 10:30 "I and my Father are one." same one person, only diversified as I said... "the equal share", as Phil 2:6 states.... BINGO.... next.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
First of all, I believe that God the Father and Jesus are one, only in that they are one in purpose and unity. But they are not one physically. I do not believe they are the same person.

Your reference to Phillipians 2:6 does not prove they are the same person either. It just proves that Jesus is in the form of God, but he is not God the Father.
That's interesting, lets look at that scripture a little closer:
Philippians 2:5-7 King James Version (KJV)
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

So in 5, we know we are talking about Jesus Christ.
In 6, we are taught that Jesus is in the form of God. Wow, if Jesus is in the form of God, then God the Father must then be in the form of Jesus, right? That means that Jesus, having a body of flesh and bone and blood, so must the Father. (but you will find out that God the Father has a resurrected body of flesh and bone, infused with eternal spirit). But it looks the same as the natural body, except it may have a bit of a glow.
Verse 7 is very interesting because it says that at the exact same time Jesus is in the form of God, he is also in the form of a servant, in the likeness of man. Jesus in the form of God and in the form of a servant, in the likeness of man. So God also must be in the likeness of man also. Have you ever thought of that? Well, here you have it in scripture.
 

Gregory

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Ronald David Bruno said:
It is difficult to understand the Trinity, but we are shown this in scripture: "In the beginning Elohim (a plural form of God).[/Quote\]

The Hebrew word Elohim has never meant three persons in some Godhead. When applying to Jehovah, ʼElo·himʹ is used as a plural of majesty, dignity, or excellence. Genesis 1:1. Regarding this, Aaron Ember wrote: “That the language of the Old Testament has entirely given up the idea of plurality in hebrew word Elohim(as applied to the God of Israel) is especially shown by the fact that it is almost invariably construed with a singular verbal predicate, and takes a singular adjectival attribute. This means Elohim must rather be explained as an intensive plural, denoting greatness and
majesty, being equal to The Great God.”—The American Journal of Semitic Languages and Literatures, Vol. XXI, 1905, p. 208.

The point is it's been recognized that the hebrew word Elohim isn't talking about some plurality of persons in some godhead. When this word is used when speaking of the Only True God it's of only one person.
The point is that the word or title "Elohim" is the word Moses decided was the correct word to use. Otherwise he would chosen a singular word for God. The Hebrews being total "one God" people, have tried for 2000 years with the "majesty context" and the "singular verbal predicate", to correct Moses by making his plural God into a singular God, but you simply cannot ignore Moses choice of words.

Moses choice of "Elohim" is confirmed in Genesis 1:26, 3:22, and 11:7 . Us Christians certainly know why.