Seek First the Kingdom of God. what is “without natural affection” ?

VictoryinJesus · Jan 19, 2021

101G said:
fear not VJ, the word of God prevails. Matthew 16:18 "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." and the Lord Jesus don't lie.

the parable of the sower is not only for the lay people but it was for the disciples, also. take in point, if the sower, break up the soil, then there is no seed on top of the soil for the fowls to snatched away by Satan, for the word of God is placed IN one heart... Matthew 13:8 "But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold."

so a good sower clear the land/the hearer of God's word by clearing any obstacle. as with the ground/heart, root uot stumps, do some weeding, exposing false doctrine, with their doctrines. and WATERING, well planted seed for full growth. so the sower must first know how to get the Land ready for sowing. he must first clear, or prepare the Land for planting. one plant, another water, but it's GOD who give the increase.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

amadeus · Jan 19, 2021

VictoryinJesus said:
for all the others look after their own interest, not those of Jesus Christ... could it also be: for all the others seek after their own interest, not those of Jesus Christ? How could this be after their being instructed of Christ to seek Him first?

Being 1) instructed to seek His Kingdom and His righteousness first and actually 2) seeking them first are not the same things. The promise of Matt 6:33 [all these things shall be added to you] is a promise to anyone who is seeking the two things first. Memorizing the verse or having someone teach you the verse does not make the two things first in your actions and efforts.

If a person really wants to put them first, but cannot alone, which may be the norm for many new seekers [and perhaps many old seekers as well], the answer for that person is found here:

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:" Matt 7:7

God knows what we are doing as opposed to what we are trying to do or even pretending to do. Do we know ourselves what we are doing? Some people may believe they have things in the right order, but are deluded. If they are deluded they have another problem, but God has all the necessary solutions to every problem we may have.

Many people supposedly serving God run into the delusion thing and of course do not know they are deluded. That is the nature of that beast. How does one with that problem deal with it and move out of their delusion?

A person needs to love the truth rather than love what he believes is truth. In other words, love the truth when it is still a muddy unclear thing to you. Love Jesus when first you meet Him even though you still cannot really see Him face to face!

Truman · Jan 19, 2021

Stumpmaster · Jan 20, 2021

VictoryinJesus said:
Thank you. Good Post. Although it leaves me with questions of can the Word of God be snatched away by satan? can the Word of God wither for lack of moisture? can the Word of God be choked by the cares of this world? Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

So the Parable of the Sower fits that criteria as per Isaiah 55:11, and the truth it expounds is not void but extremely edifying and illuminating to those who are smacked around the head by it and then pricked in their heart to repent of being wayside hearers, stony ground hearers, or thorny ground hearers.

VictoryinJesus · Jan 20, 2021

amadeus said:
Some people may believe they have things in the right order, but are deluded. If they are deluded they have another problem, but God has all the necessary solutions to every problem we may have.

Many people supposedly serving God run into the delusion thing and of course do not know they are deluded. That is the nature of that beast. How does one with that problem deal with it and move out of their delusion?

Understood. If I were under a delusion and lie(not saying I am not) I would want someone to fight for my deliverance from the delusion or lie. I would want someone to stand strong in the Lord, petition Him for my release. I would not want their Faith to fail but be mighty in Him and prosper. I would not want them to leave me there in my delusion but for them to care about my state. Luke 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

when Jesus prayed “Father, forgive them; for they know what they do.” Was he praying unto the Father for only those men crucifying him...or for all?

JohnDB · Jan 20, 2021

amadeus said:
Many people supposedly serving God run into the delusion thing and of course do not know they are deluded. That is the nature of that beast. How does one with that problem deal with it and move out of their delusion?

There's been a lot of this sort of thing that happens inside of Christiandom. And we are always trying to ignore the uncomfortable truth.

George Lyle vs Adonhiram Judson
The man who spoke in Tongues so much he thought he could preach to the Egyptians (barely made it home)
The Children's Brigade
The Crusades
Segregation and Slavery both
Temperance legislation
Bloody Mary
Millerites (prelude to SDA)
Jim Jones
Y to K doomsday
2012 doomsday

The list of people under delusional thinking that believe they are under a mandate from God is incredibly long and incredibly sad.
The ridiculous ones common in today's society are not any better or worse than that of times previously.
In a lot of ways I'm kinda shocked that God has put up with us this long when we not only hold horrible doctrines but coerce others into committing corporate sins.

VictoryinJesus · Jan 20, 2021

JohnDB said:
There's been a lot of this sort of thing that happens inside of Christiandom. And we are always trying to ignore the uncomfortable truth.

George Lyle vs Adonhiram Judson
The man who spoke in Tongues so much he thought he could preach to the Egyptians (barely made it home)
The Children's Brigade
The Crusades
Segregation and Slavery both
Temperance legislation
Bloody Mary
Millerites (prelude to SDA)
Jim Jones
Y to K doomsday
2012 doomsday

The list of people under delusional thinking that believe they are under a mandate from God is incredibly long and incredibly sad.
The ridiculous ones common in today's society are not any better or worse than that of times previously.
In a lot of ways I'm kinda shocked that God has put up with us this long when we not only hold horrible doctrines but coerce others into committing corporate sins.

Easy to point out there at the blame for the delusion and lies but “The worst prison in the world is a home without peace.”

JohnDB · Jan 20, 2021

VictoryinJesus said:
Easy to point out there at the blame for the delusion and lies but “The worst prison in the world is a home without peace.”

Well...I was trying to keep it from becoming another rabbit trail as some instances of "God revealed to me" are still being fought over and the results doubted.

So I used the most blatant and obvious cases. There's still a ton more that I haven't listed...lots and lots more.

amadeus · Jan 20, 2021

VictoryinJesus said:
Understood. If I were under a delusion and lie(not saying I am not) I would want someone to fight for my deliverance from the delusion or lie. I would want someone to stand strong in the Lord, petition Him for my release. I would not want their Faith to fail but be mighty in Him and prosper. I would not want them to leave me there in my delusion but for them to care about my state. Luke 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

when Jesus prayed “Father, forgive them; for they know what they do.” Was he praying unto the Father for only those men crucifying him...or for all?

People interceding for us in prayer can certainly help... if we, in our delusion, are not so hard hearted that we refuse to accept the possibility that we are in error. Everyone needs to keep his heart soft in this respect. Of course we will stand for what we believe, but somewhere inside of us we need remain open to the possibility that we are holding onto error.

Unless a person knows precisely everything that God knows as well as God knows it, it is not only possible but it is likely that eventually we will have to change or be changed in some things to move closer to where God wants us.

We should remember when Jesus was praying to his father here:

"And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." Matt 26:39

Jesus, the man, tempted in all things as we are, wanted to avoid the suffering which was before him, but in praying for that, he refused to bypass his Father's will. We should always be wanting to do the same thing when we talk to the Father. Will not always attaching such an addendum to our requests help keep us from moving into a delusion?

The ideal way I see to avoid ever being deluded is to always remain in the Spirit and to always be following the lead of the Spirit. Every time as we are walking this course of ours that we keep control of our own reins taking them back from the Holy Spirit [quenching the Spirit], we open ourselves up to the possibility of becoming deluded.

What should we do to check ourselves? Delusion comes to us for not loving the truth. People believe that they must know all of the truth in order to stay in love with it. This is not so. Do we love our natural spouse, even though we do not know every single thing in the heart and mind of our spouse?

From there then consider, do we love Jesus from the day that we meet him even though our vision of Him is certainly as through a glass darkly? The answer needs to be, yes, for Jesus is the Truth. No matter where we are and how much we may change or be changed, we must always stay in love with Him.

Checking ourselves for delusions? How can we do that? The answer Jesus gave us for that is seen here:

"When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;
And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room.
But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Luke 14:8-11

In applying this to myself I strive each morning, or more often, when I come together alone with God, to "go to the lowest room" effectively trying, and asking God to help me, to empty myself of every thought and doctrine and way and belief that I hold. Then from that place at the bottom let God refill me back up ["Friend, go up higher"] if that is what He sees is needed for me. Many times as far as I can tell there is no significant change, but over the years, from time to time there have been changes. This process, I believe, allows God to remove any delusions from us...as well as helping us to really grow. We belong to Him and if we admit that sincerely, He will help us on every point as needed...

amadeus · Jan 20, 2021

JohnDB said:
There's been a lot of this sort of thing that happens inside of Christiandom. And we are always trying to ignore the uncomfortable truth.

George Lyle vs Adonhiram Judson
The man who spoke in Tongues so much he thought he could preach to the Egyptians (barely made it home)
The Children's Brigade
The Crusades
Segregation and Slavery both
Temperance legislation
Bloody Mary
Millerites (prelude to SDA)
Jim Jones
Y to K doomsday
2012 doomsday

The list of people under delusional thinking that believe they are under a mandate from God is incredibly long and incredibly sad.
The ridiculous ones common in today's society are not any better or worse than that of times previously.
In a lot of ways I'm kinda shocked that God has put up with us this long when we not only hold horrible doctrines but coerce others into committing corporate sins.

God truly does know each one of us better than we know ourselves. He know our frailties and where we are likely to stumble. He gave these words to Jeremiah:

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

That describes the carnal or old man of each of us. Alone we are able to walk into a ditch all by ourselves. We don't need a blind leader to show us the way... although that is certainly another way to get there: That is that wide way to destruction.

"And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?" Luke 6:39

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." Matt 7:13-14

So as to walk through that strait and narrow way, we need eye salve:

"I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see." Rev 3:18

The eyesalve is the Holy Spirit. When a person quenches the Holy Spirit in himself and takes hold of his own reins he is putting on blinders and he will fall into any ditch along his path.

JohnDB · Jan 20, 2021

MattMooradian said:
Two things jump out about these passages: 5. "Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof". And, 7. "ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of truth."

I wonder if most Christians fall into these categories. Another discussion about the covid vaccine asks if we are trusting God or humans when we chose to get vaccinated. Are those who get vaccinated people who "have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof"? Secondly, are those who read scripture after scripture and are able to quote many scriptures, but also follow Peter in believing it is God's will to draw swords to defend Christianity - are such Christians "ever learning, and never able to come to a knowledge of truth"?

Did the flour Elisha put into pot actually remove the poison? In the story of "Death in The Pot," .
Would the poison have been removed without the flour?

How about the battle where they only were winning as long as Moses held his arms up?
Why did they begin to lose when Moses put his arms down?

Why anoint with oil if the olive oil doesn't really do anything?

Especially in the case of David as a small boy getting anointed with a horn of oil and prayer.

In all of these instances it isn't any different than turning rocks into bread. A big big sin.
So that's why we get vaccinated and pray we aren't the 5% that find it ineffective.

Why go through these motions when we know that these things are not efficacious?

VictoryinJesus · Jan 20, 2021

amadeus said:
Checking ourselves for delusions? How can we do that? The answer Jesus gave us for that is seen here:

"When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;
And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room.
But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Luke 14:8-11

“then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.”
One passage that has helped lately is 2 Corinthians 13:5-9. I’m sorry the Lexicon links is going to underline it all most likely. I don’t know how to post it otherwise.

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? [6] But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates. (Coming from one who said: we have the mind of Christ) [7] Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, (even)though we be as reprobates. [8] For we can do nothing against the truth, but (only) for the truth. [9] For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Lexicon: Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you-- unless indeed you fail the test?

2 Corinthians 13:6 Lexicon: But I trust that you will realize that we ourselves do not fail the test.(not standing the test, rejected)

2 Corinthians 13:7 Lexicon: Now we pray to God that you do no wrong; not that we ourselves may appear approved, but that you may do what is right(beautiful,good), even though we may appear unapproved.

2 Corinthians 13:8 Lexicon: For we can (: to be able, to have power) do nothing against the truth, but only for the truth.

2 Corinthians 13:9 Lexicon: For we rejoice when we ourselves are weak but you are strong; this we also pray for, that you be made complete. 2676: a preparing, an equipping

VictoryinJesus · Jan 21, 2021

JohnDB said:
In all of these instances it isn't any different than turning rocks into bread. A big big sin.
So that's why we get vaccinated and pray we aren't the 5% that find it ineffective.

curious where turning rocks into bread is “a big big sin?” Comes from? And what does it have to do with Covid vaccine?

JohnDB · Jan 21, 2021

VictoryinJesus said:
curious where turning rocks into bread is “a big big sin?” Comes from? And what does it have to do with Covid vaccine?

Oh...
Ooops, my bad. I went beyond.

Jesus, in the Wilderness, Satan tempts him with turning the rocks into bread because he had been fasting and was extremely angry.
He is God so on one hand it isn't impossible.
But on the other it is making more out of something than it really is. (Massive understatement here)

Think about that for a bit...let it stew between your ears for a bit. It will come to you.

VictoryinJesus · Jan 21, 2021

JohnDB said:
Think about that for a bit...let it stew between your ears for a bit. It will come to you.

first where and why is the tone coming from?

Second only asked because He is the stone rejected and disallowed by men but precious unto God “I am the bread”. Satan was tempting “let this stone be made into bread” that He might feed himself. Same as their tempting “come down from that cross and save yourself”. didn’t He choose for the Stone to be made bread to feed others instead ...—the living Stone—lively stones built up a spiritual house ...that Stone rejected and disallowed of men made bread which does feed the poor and the hungry for generations. What of the stones which would cry out if He held His peace. What of God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham? That Satan might accuse him “let this stone be made into bread” reminds me of Matthew 12:10-11 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him. [11] And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?

JohnDB · Jan 21, 2021

VictoryinJesus said:
first where and why is the tone coming from?

It's not a tone...
It's just me trying to explain something and you are running around in circles looking at a lot of things. Some are related but not Building a logical train of thought.

Bara lehem kephasim (Hebrew transliteration)
God, by agency of Jesus, built the Heavens and the Earth. The plan of Jesus was firmly in place long before the Earth was formed into a ball.
Jesus' miracles were never going to be self serving.
Jesus, the gold maker, was not to be a gold consumer. But Jesus ate and drank regularly anyway. But He was in the wilderness, away from everyone, angry at all of mankind and hungry because of his fasting.

So,
Now simply and plainly can you explain why you think that turning the rocks into bread was such a huge sin? (Jesus did give an answer as to why but it's confusing unless you are Jewish)

VictoryinJesus · Jan 21, 2021

JohnDB said:
Now simply and plainly can you explain why you think that turning the rocks into bread was such a huge sin? (Jesus did give an answer as to why but it's confusing unless you are Jewish)

No I can’t. Never heard it was a sin. That is why I asked you...hoping you would help explain.

JohnDB · Jan 21, 2021

VictoryinJesus said:
No I can’t. Never heard it was a sin. That is why I asked you...hoping you would help explain.

Matthew 4:1-11 is the background passage for this, although verses 1-4 covers the scene setting and exact temptation.

I thought that you were somewhat familiar with the scriptures and the contents of the Gospels in their storybook fashion...my mistake.
But this scene takes place immediately after Jesus is Baptized by John.
Jesus has been born and been anxious to start his ministry tour. This day had been foretold since the writing of the Torah and a bunch of clues as to how, when, where, and why to find Jesus given throughout the scriptures, (costing many many lives in the process of keeping the information available) and hardly anyone was there. This day was Heaven's worst kept secret and not even so much as a birthday party is thrown for that day. Jesus is righteously angry.

I'm sure that Jesus is entertaining thoughts of "Let's delete this universe and forget it ever happened...it was a bad idea to begin with" or maybe "These Israelites are worthless... maybe I shoulda gone with Ishmael"
One can only imagine...

And while Jesus is away from all these annoying people "in the wilderness" and super hungry, that was when Satan made a suggestion.
Turn these stones into bread and eat.

Bread AKA "lehem" in Hebrew isn't just bread as we think..."bread" was the word for basic foodstuffs. Beans, cheese, rice, meat, nuts, vegetables, corn, oil, and even matza qualifies as bread.

Jesus was hungry after 40 days of fasting. He is losing muscle tone and likely hair at this point... He is on the verge of organ distress if not failure. He should know too...He was there during the design process of creating mankind. He knows exactly what is going on with his human body.

But...
He has his list of tasks and teachings to perform according to the plan made before the Earth was formed. He has to die on a cross and raise himself up from the dead. He has a very scripted journey and example to set. An example that is going to last for thousands of years. He has billions of people counting on him to save them...which is the chief reason He came to Earth from his Heavenly Throne.

And if He can't handle the hunger and marginalizing now, how is He going to handle the crucifixion later? More self serving behavior? More luxury for himself? At what point does the luxury need to stop that He can easily provide for himself?

amadeus · Jan 21, 2021

VictoryinJesus said:
“then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.”
One passage that has helped lately is 2 Corinthians 13:5-9. I’m sorry the Lexicon links is going to underline it all most likely. I don’t know how to post it otherwise.

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? [6] But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates. (Coming from one who said: we have the mind of Christ) [7] Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, (even)though we be as reprobates. [8] For we can do nothing against the truth, but (only) for the truth. [9] For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Lexicon: Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you-- unless indeed you fail the test?

2 Corinthians 13:6 Lexicon: But I trust that you will realize that we ourselves do not fail the test.(not standing the test, rejected)

2 Corinthians 13:7 Lexicon: Now we pray to God that you do no wrong; not that we ourselves may appear approved, but that you may do what is right(beautiful,good), even though we may appear unapproved.

2 Corinthians 13:8 Lexicon: For we can (: to be able, to have power) do nothing against the truth, but only for the truth.

2 Corinthians 13:9 Lexicon: For we rejoice when we ourselves are weak but you are strong; this we also pray for, that you be made complete. 2676: a preparing, an equipping

Thanks for the additional verses on this Sister!

amadeus · Jan 21, 2021

VictoryinJesus said:
first where and why is the tone coming from?

Second only asked because He is the stone rejected and disallowed by men but precious unto God “I am the bread”. Satan was tempting “let this stone be made into bread” that He might feed himself. Same as their tempting “come down from that cross and save yourself”. didn’t He choose for the Stone to be made bread to feed others instead ...—the living Stone—lively stones built up a spiritual house ...that Stone rejected and disallowed of men made bread which does feed the poor and the hungry for generations. What of the stones which would cry out if He held His peace. What of God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham? That Satan might accuse him “let this stone be made into bread” reminds me of Matthew 12:10-11 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him. [11] And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?

Eating the natural bread made from grains, such as wheat or barley, to provide our physical bodies with necessary nourishment is a good thing, so long as we do not give it priority over eating the Bread which Jesus is. Jesus makes the distinction between the two:

"I am that bread of life.
Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world." John 6:48-51

Seek First the Kingdom of God. what is “without natural affection” ?

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