The Holy Spirit is HE

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justbyfaith

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Jesus said:

"And, if I wanted to take pleasure in restoring the picture of My Divine Charity as a restorer of mosaics does replacing the tesserae damaged or missing, reinstating the mosaic in its complete beauty, and I have decided to do it in this century which mankind is hurling itself toward the Abyss of darkness and horror, can you forbid Me from doing so? Can you perhaps say that you do not need it, you whose spirits are dull, weak, deaf to lights, voices, and invitations from Above?

You ought really to bless Me for increasing with new lights the light that you have and that is no longer sufficient for you to "see" your Savior. To see the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and feel that spiritual emotion of the just of My time rise in you, attaining through this knowledge a renewal of your spirits in love, that would be your salvation, because it is an ascent towards perfection." (The Poem of the Man-God: Volume V, by Maria Valtorta, ch. 647, pp. 481-482)
Jesus didn't say that.
 

justbyfaith

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If you mean that quote is not in the Bible you are correct, because He spoke those words in the twentieth century.
You have no proof that He spoke those words in the 20th century.

My question to you would be, was He there in the flesh when He spoke these words?

If so, where is He now? is He hidden in some secret chamber?

Mat 24:26, Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

If not, then whoever heard Him speak these words will deny that He was in the flesh when He spoke them...and that is a sign of having the spirit of antichrist (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).
 

justbyfaith

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I have no proof Jesus spoke those words in the twentieth century, specifically on April 28th, 1947? What do you have to substantiate that claim?
If you have the proof that it was Jesus who said those things, then show forth the proof.

The burden of proof is on you.

For you are the one claiming that Jesus spoke those words.

Show forth the archaeological evidence, or the evidence through prophecy that has been fulfilled; and maybe then I will believe you. But not until then.
 

justbyfaith

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The burden of proof is on anyone making a claim. You claimed I do not have proof, therefore substantiate that.

The proof of my claim is in that you cannot provide proof for your claim.

If you can, then set it forth to us.

Otherwise, I have proven that you do not have proof, as evidenced by the fact that you cannot provide the proof that is required.

But if you can provide the proof that I require, then you remove my evidence and show forth that there is indeed proof of what you are saying.

As for me, any proof I have would require you to read Maria Valtorta's writings which you refuse to do.

I will make an exception in the case of anything in her writings that show forth a prophecy that has come to pass.

But, I will also say that if there is any prophecy within her writings that has not come to pass, that this would identify her as a false prophetess.
 

justbyfaith

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You need to substantiate that claim,
The claim is substantiated for as long as you do not provide proof for your claim.

If you cannot provide proof for your claim, my claim that you have no proof for your claim is substantiated by virtue of the fact that you do not provide proof for your claim.
 

Faithsong

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I came to the conclusion that the Holy Spirit is God, and the Father and Son are roles of Him.
I don't quite understand it, but that's the only answer there is.
If God wanted the holy spirit understood, there would be no questions
 

farouk

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If God wanted the holy spirit understood, there would be no questions
The Holy Spirit is mentioned in John 4 (re. worship in Spirit and in truth) and Romans 8 (re. His indwelling and His role in prayer, for those who love and trust God's Son, the Lord Jesus).
 

Faithsong

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The Holy Spirit is mentioned in John 4 (re. worship in Spirit and in truth) and Romans 8 (re. His indwelling and His role in prayer, for those who love and trust God's Son, the Lord Jesus).
Is there anything in the bible that says exactly what the holy spirit actually is?
 

farouk

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Is there anything in the bible that says exactly what the holy spirit actually is?
@Faithsong He is God Himself.

Genesis 1.1-2: "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

The end of Mathhew 28 speaks of God in Three Persons; as does Romans 8, and John's First Epistle.
 

justbyfaith

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No, because any brainlet can look at any amount of proof and say "You have no proof." Therefore, to be taken seriously you need to show how I have no proof.
It is already shown; because you are not showing forth the proof for your claims.

If you will show forth the proof for your claims then you will disprove my claim.

Until then, my claim is to be regarded as proven because of the absence of proof to the contrary.

For my claim is that you have no proof for your claims.

And therefore, as long as you cannot show proof for your claims, my claim is substantiated.
 

justbyfaith

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By that standard, Maria Valtorta's writings are from God, are not Gnostic, and Jesus did speak the words in question because of the absence of proof to the contrary.

No because my claim is that you have no proof for your claims.

Therefore, if you want to disprove my claim, show forth the proof for your claims and you will have shown that my claim is unfounded.

My claim is substantiated until then.
 

justbyfaith

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The burden of proof is on anyone who made a claim. You claimed Maria Valtorta's writings are "...in disregard to the faithful interpretations of holy scripture" and are "...too much like Gnostic writings" and therefore you should prove those claims if you can, or admit you cannot. However, you refuse to do so, and therefore hypocritically say I should prove Valtorta's writings are from God. Furthermore, you refuse to read her writings for the aforementioned reasons, as well as because you do not want to be deceived, and want to lead by example for others, etc.,

That is correct.

and reading her writings would be required if I were to present any proof...

I would make an exception in the case of any of her writings that make it internally evident that they are truly the word of God.

The question is, are you willing to produce such internal evidence?

Better yet, does such internal evidence exist?

Because I would venture to say that if you cannot produce it, it does not exist...
 

justbyfaith

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I know. Now, refer back to post #110 and address each point, please.
I'm afraid I cannot address those points, just as you cannot bring forth proof that Maria Vallorta's writings are inspired by the Lord.

If you can, then do so.

I am not going to answer your accusation of me as "hypocrite" because I know that I am not a hypocrite and therefore I do not need to defend myself to you.

But you should consider that any time you point the finger at someone else, there are usually three fingers pointing back at you. This is a principle that we find in Matthew 7:1-5 and Luke 6:41-42 (words that Jesus really did say).

Therefore, let me just say this bit:

I'm rubber and you're glue: everything you say bounces off of me and sticks to you...:p:D:cool:
 

justbyfaith

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As I thought.
Nevertheless, the points that I have already made are valid.

There is safety in sticking to the Bible and not going astray to read documents that claim to be the words of Jesus as thought they really are the words of Jesus.

As I have said before, if Jesus said those things to her in the flesh, is He now hiding in the secret chambers (see Matthew 24:26)?

If He did not say those things to her in the flesh, she has deeper problems (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).
 

justbyfaith

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The points in question ought to make you sleep not as well; since they show forth the fact that you are being deceived by the Maria Vallorta thing.

They don't help me sleep even in the slightest. I already sleep like a baby every night; and I don't need these points to help me to do so.

I am very fulfilled in my life knowing that I am doing the work of the Lord and that people will be in heaven as the result of my having been a man on the face of the earth who received Jesus as his Lord and Saviour and accepted the call to ministry.

The points in question are so peripheral to that; and they don't have any bearing on how well I sleep at night.

However, you may have to tell yourself some lies in order to be able to sleep at night; especially if you are believing that Jesus said some things that He in all reality did not say.

And He also did not say some of the things that you think He said; for Maria Vallorta is a false prophetess; and I will continue to believe that this is the case until and unless you provide evidence to the contrary in the form of internal or archaeological evidence that shows forth her writings to be true, and the word of the Lord.

For, simply claiming to be the words of Jesus does not identify them as the words of Jesus. They may very well be the words of a different Jesus than the Jesus of the Bible.

2Co 11:3, But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
2Co 11:4, For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

I know that these things very likely will not dissuade you from believing in this lady; but if I can dissuade even one person from going down the path of believing in extra-biblical documents apart from knowing their Bibles extremely well in the first place, then I have done my job.
 

Truman

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I expel air from my lungs in order to speak a word.
We are made in God's image.
Father God expels Breath (Holy Spirit) to speak, "Word" (Jesus)
"Father, Holy Spirit, Son,
Israel, our God is one."
He is awesome beyond words. :)
 
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justbyfaith

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Whatever helps you sleep at night.

The points in question ought to make you sleep not as well at night; since they show forth the fact that you are being deceived by the Maria Vallorta thing.

They don't help me sleep even in the slightest. I already sleep like a baby every night; and I don't need these points to help me to do so.

I am very fulfilled in my life knowing that I am doing the work of the Lord and that people will be in heaven as the result of my having been a man on the face of the earth who received Jesus as his Lord and Saviour and accepted the call to ministry.

The points in question are so peripheral to that; and they don't have any bearing on how well I sleep at night.

However, you may have to tell yourself some lies in order to be able to sleep at night; especially if you are believing that Jesus said some things that He in all reality did not say.

And He also did not say some of the things that you think He said; for Maria Vallorta is a false prophetess; and I will continue to believe that this is the case until and unless you provide evidence to the contrary in the form of internal or archaeological evidence that shows forth her writings to be true, and the word of the Lord.

For, simply claiming to be the words of Jesus does not identify them as the words of Jesus. They may very well be the words of a different Jesus than the Jesus of the Bible.

2Co 11:3, But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
2Co 11:4, For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

I know that these things very likely will not dissuade you from believing in this lady; but if I can dissuade even one person from going down the path of believing in extra-biblical documents apart from knowing their Bibles extremely well in the first place, then I have done my job.