Jesus Christ Is The Only “…first Born From The Dead.”

Rach1370 · Nov 5, 2010

Anastacia said:
LoL...Well, I'm glad Jesus was not just spending those days in a heavenly day spa. But, besides that---I agree with you! I love it that I found someone like minded in this. I hope to find that we have all the same beliefs. =)
Amen. Jesus is Lord! I love God's Word....

Its can be a little disheartening can't it, to know the world is full of Christians, but to sometimes find it hard to find them! I think being online can also make you realise just how many unsaved people are out there too; those who just don't care and those who are down right antagonistic towards us.
As far as different beliefs go, I think it depends. On the closed hand subjects, like who Jesus is (God, part of the Trinity), the virgin birth, his death, burial and resurrection and the reason why He chose to sacrifice Himself for us (forgiveness for our sins in the form of grace); well, there in no debate on those things.
But on open hand things, the things that aren't essential for salvation, I believe that by having different opinions and discussing them we come to better biblical understand, that if discussion is in a loving way we can also grow in our friendships.
So, yes, it is so very nice to meet a heartfelt Christian with similar beliefs! I hope I continue to run across your posts! (and I must say it's a relief to have someone else trying to steer some of the more misguided towards what the bible is actually saying!)

Eccl.12:13 · Nov 6, 2010

For all that still believe the dead in Christ go to be with Him at their death please exaplain again what I brought up at the beginning of this lesson.....

Just how did that work for Lazarus, or any of the others that were born, died, was brought back to life AND died again; whether in the OT or NT?”

Let’s think about it for a moment……let's see if it makes sense!

They were ALL born flesh and blood, BUT.......

When they died they became a "spirit being"; something they HAD to become to be in the presence of God, “…Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption…”

THEN......

God put them BACK into a corruptible flesh and blood body to bring them back to life, to live hear on earth just to die again,

THEN.......

They went back to being a "spirit being" when they died the SECOND time?

Think about it…..what was once a corruptible body was made perfect when they died. Something they HAD to become to be in the presense of God.....

Then God made that which was PERFECT a corruptible body AGAIN?

Then God made the corruptable perfect AGAIN?

Does that make sense?

Do you really think God works that way?

To go from PERFECT to CORRUPTABLE?

.

Anastacia · Nov 6, 2010

Eccl.12:13 said:
My replies to Eccl.12:13 in blue.

For all that still believe the dead in Christ go to be with Him at their death please exaplain again what I brought up at the beginning of this lesson.....

Just how did that work for Lazarus, or any of the others that were born, died, was brought back to life AND died again; whether in the OT or NT?”

So you are denying that Jesus brought people back to life?!

Let’s think about it for a moment……let's see if it makes sense!

They were ALL born flesh and blood, BUT.......

When they died they became a "spirit being"; something they HAD to become to be in the presence of God, “…Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption…”

THEN......

God put them BACK into a corruptible flesh and blood body to bring them back to life, to live hear on earth just to die again,

THEN.......

They went back to being a "spirit being" when they died the SECOND time?

Think about it…..what was once a corruptible body was made perfect when they died. Something they HAD to become to be in the presense of God.....
Where do you get that we are made perfect when we die?

Then God made that which was PERFECT a corruptible body AGAIN?

Then God made the corruptable perfect AGAIN?

Does that make sense?

Do you really think God works that way?

To go from PERFECT to CORRUPTABLE?

Can you give scriptures that say when we die we are made perfect?

Rach1370 · Nov 6, 2010

Hey Ecc. I think your line of reasoning is faulty. You say:

"Just how did that work for Lazarus, or any of the others that were born, died, was brought back to life AND died again; whether in the OT or NT?...
...Think about it…..what was once a corruptible body was made perfect when they died. Something they HAD to become to be in the presense of God.....
...Then God made that which was PERFECT a corruptible body AGAIN?...
Then God made the corruptable perfect AGAIN?
Does that make sense?
Do you really think God works that way?
To go from PERFECT to CORRUPTABLE? "

I would say here, that:

Who are we to know exactly why and how God works? He doesn't need to, and nor does He share all His thoughts, plans and working with us. He reveals parts of Himself to us through His word so we may know enough to see He is God and that His plan is our salvation.
When you say, "that doesn't make sense", or "God doesn't work like that", that is just limiting our God. If Lazarus did go to God in spirit form after his first death, who are we to say that God couldn't tell him to return. And as Jesus says that Lazarus' death was specifically to show glory to the Son, again, who are we to say that God made his spirit sleep within his body for the days before Jesus rose him again?
We have seen things that are abnormal for specific purposes. Like in Acts when the first group of non Jews (the Samaritans) became saved they required Peter and John to lay hands on them before receiving the Holy Spirit. Since then people recieve the Holy Spirit as soon as they become 'born again'.

So just because something doesn't fit what you deem 'correct and right' doesn't mean it can't still be God's purpose. You claim 'It can't be!" and God says, "It can be, and will be for my glory!"

Eccl.12:13 · Nov 7, 2010

Your question is the whole point of this lesson...

We are NOT made perfect when we die! That is the ASSUPTION of those that believe they go to be with the Lord upon their death!

No one has, nor will anyone become, perfect BEFORE the second coming of Christ!

Paul tells us that NONE of the righteous that died have received their perfect bodies yet!

He even goes on to say that they will NOT get theirs before he gets his....

Heb.11
[39] And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
[40] God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

So if none have received perfection how can they be in the presense of God? It is impossible!!

.

S.T. Ranger · Nov 7, 2010

Eccl.12:13 said:
For all that still believe the dead in Christ go to be with Him at their death please exaplain again what I brought up at the beginning of this lesson.....

Just how did that work for Lazarus, or any of the others that were born, died, was brought back to life AND died again; whether in the OT or NT?”

Let’s think about it for a moment……let's see if it makes sense!

They were ALL born flesh and blood, BUT.......

When they died they became a "spirit being"; something they HAD to become to be in the presence of God, “…Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption…”

THEN......

God put them BACK into a corruptible flesh and blood body to bring them back to life, to live hear on earth just to die again,

THEN.......

They went back to being a "spirit being" when they died the SECOND time?

Think about it…..what was once a corruptible body was made perfect when they died. Something they HAD to become to be in the presense of God.....

Then God made that which was PERFECT a corruptible body AGAIN?

Then God made the corruptable perfect AGAIN?

Does that make sense?

Do you really think God works that way?

To go from PERFECT to CORRUPTABLE?

What doesn't make sense is seeing perfection as the glorification of the body, and placing this before the resurrection of the dead.

GTY

S.T. Ranger · Nov 7, 2010

Eccl.12:13 said:
Your question is the whole point of this lesson...

We are NOT made perfect when we die! That is the ASSUPTION of those that believe they go to be with the Lord upon their death!

The assumption that is found is in thinking that perfection is the glorification of the body.

Here is one verse for you to explain:

Hebrews 6
[sup]1[/sup]Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

There are several "perfections" that are mentioned in the New testament, our job, commanded by God is this: to understand them before we try teaching doctrine.

Would you care to explain the perfection here?

Eccl.12:13 said:
No one has, nor will anyone become, perfect BEFORE the second coming of Christ!

Hebrews 10:10, 14 (KJV)

[sup]10[/sup]By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

[sup] 14[/sup]For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

You were saying?

Eccl.12:13 said:
Paul tells us that NONE of the righteous that died have received their perfect bodies yet!

This is true.

Eccl.12:13 said:
He even goes on to say that they will NOT get theirs before he gets his....

Heb.11
[39] And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
[40] God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

This does not speak of glorification. The writer has already made clear that the Hebrews were to leave the basic principles of Christ and GO ON TO PERFECTION, that the law COULD NOT MAKE PERFECT, but that by the one offering of Jesus Christ, those who are sanctified ARE MADE PERFECT FOREVER, and this was not possible for those found in Hebrews 11, who LIVED BY FAITH, not the works of the law, because Christ had not died yet.

Hebrews is a great book, and is a powerhouse concerning the Doctrine of Christ...I highly recommend this book to all.

Eccl.12:13 said:
So if none have received perfection how can they be in the presense of God? It is impossible!!

We have been made complete in Christ, through His sacrifice, once and for all, and...forever.

GTY

Anastacia · Nov 7, 2010

Eccl.12:13 said:
Your question is the whole point of this lesson...

We are NOT made perfect when we die! That is the ASSUPTION of those that believe they go to be with the Lord upon their death!

No one has, nor will anyone become, perfect BEFORE the second coming of Christ!

Paul tells us that NONE of the righteous that died have received their perfect bodies yet!

He even goes on to say that they will NOT get theirs before he gets his....

Heb.11
[39] And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
[40] God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

So if none have received perfection how can they be in the presense of God? It is impossible!!

.

We are made perfect by our faith in Jesus Christ! Where do you get that we are made perfect by dying? You falsely accuse people of saying that. And Hebrews 11:39-40---is about the Old Testament saints and righteous people who did not get to know Jesus and the gospel until he was revealed, when he was revealed! Jesus and salvation was a mystery, no one before Jesus knew the mystery. We have in the New Testament the mystery revealed. That's why Abraham waited to see Jesus' day, Abraham saw it and was glad. That's why Jesus preached to those who were dead. That's why Hebrews 12:23 says we come to heaven where God is....and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect.
We are made perfect by Jesus' sacrifice, and our belief in Jesus. Yes, even the spirits of the righteous were made perfect when they learned of Jesus Christ!

Please read each scripture given.

1 Peter 1:10-12 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, [sup]11[/sup] trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow. [sup]12[/sup] It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

2 Peter 1:19 And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

Romans 16:25-26 Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him--

1 Corinthians 4:1 So then, men ought to regard us as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the secret things of God.

Hebrews 7:11 [ Jesus Like Melchizedek ] If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?

Hebrews 7:19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

Hebrews 12:2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

1 Peter 4:5-6 But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

1 Peter 3:18-19 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

Ephesians 4:10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

James 1:25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.

Galatians 3:19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.

Rach1370 · Nov 7, 2010

Eccl.12:13 said:
Your question is the whole point of this lesson...
We are NOT made perfect when we die! That is the ASSUPTION of those that believe they go to be with the Lord upon their death!
No one has, nor will anyone become, perfect BEFORE the second coming of Christ!
Paul tells us that NONE of the righteous that died have received their perfect bodies yet!
He even goes on to say that they will NOT get theirs before he gets his....

Heb.11
[39] And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
[40] God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

So if none have received perfection how can they be in the presense of God? It is impossible!!

Ecc, I never said that people become perfect as soon as they die...I was just following your line of reasoning in your previous post. (You said: Think about it…..what was once a corruptible body was made perfect when they died. Something they HAD to become to be in the presense of God....).
I have said in an earlier post, that I believe that people will only recieve their perfect, incorruptible bodies when Jesus returns. Now, you believe that being with Jesus after death has to equal being perfect. This does not logically make sense. Jesus, after His resurrection, was in His new and perfect body. We know it was a new body, for it was not like His old earthly body; He was able to appear and disappear whenever He chose, and it took even His faithful followers a moment to recognize Him. And yet even then, in a perfect body that would never experience the gravity of sin (aging, illness, death) He was able, and did, be in the presence of imperfect beings...us.
You pluck verses here and there and stuff them into your own mold, not realising two things:
1) God is God, He does not need to conform to your ideas of what can, should or does happen, and
2) You take a verse and say, 'see!', completely disregarding other verses that can and do dismiss your theory. If we had to be perfect to be with God, how was Jesus, who is God, able to be with us? All things are possible with God. Can you not see that by claiming "it has to be this way", is only putting earthly limitations on our God? Our God is limitless!

Other things that also dismiss your theory:
*Moses was in the presence of God, twice. Peter, James and John witnesses Jesus' transfiguration. None of these people were perfect....far from it.
*While we don't receive our 'perfect' bodies until the End, when we die we shed our 'earthly' and sinful bodies. How on earth would you know what exact state our spirits are in, hmmm? You would probably say that our equally sinful spirits sleep until we are given our new perfect ones. But the fact is the Bible only talks of swapping corruptible bodies for incorruptible one, not about getting a renewed spirit....Oh wait! It does....we receive a new spirit when we accept Christ and receive the Holy Spirit!
*So having this new spirit how can we not believe that we can be with Jesus when we die? Paul certainly did...

[8] Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
(2 Corinthians 5:8 ESV)

He does not say "When I die I'll wait for a while, but just like a kid on Christmas eve, sleeping will make it go faster and before I know it I'll be with Jesus!"
Nope, no one can accuse Paul of not telling it like it is, and Paul clearly says that when he dies, he will be with his Lord!!

Anastacia · Nov 7, 2010

Rach said:
I have said in an earlier post, that I believe that people will only recieve their perfect, incorruptible bodies when Jesus returns. Now, you believe that being with Jesus after death has to equal being perfect. This does not logically make sense. Jesus, after His resurrection, was in His new and perfect body. We know it was a new body, for it was not like His old earthly body; He was able to appear and disappear whenever He chose, and it took even His faithful followers a moment to recognize Him. And yet even then, in a perfect body that would never experience the gravity of sin (aging, illness, death) He was able, and did, be in the presence of imperfect beings...us.

I just want to share something that I found not too long ago. Tell me if you think in this passage that it shows Philip disappeared when they came out of the water and the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again.....

Acts 8:36-40 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?” And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing. Philip, however, appeared at Azotus and traveled about, preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea.

In this passage, Jesus walks on water, and read how when Jesus got into the boat, "immediately the boat reached the shore where they were heading." Sounds to me like the boat supernaturally appeared on the shore when it had still been a distance away.

John 6:16-21 When evening came, his disciples went down to the lake, where they got into a boat and set off across the lake for Capernaum. By now it was dark, and Jesus had not yet joined them. A strong wind was blowing and the waters grew rough. When they had rowed about three or four miles, they saw Jesus approaching the boat, walking on the water; and they were frightened. But he said to them, “It is I; don’t be afraid.” Then they were willing to take him into the boat, and immediately the boat reached the shore where they were heading.

I think that the way Revelation discribes Jesus, that is the way Jesus looks in his glorified body.

Revelation
[sup]12[/sup] I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, [sup]13[/sup] and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man,[sup][a][/sup] dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. [sup]14[/sup] The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. [sup]15[/sup] His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. [sup]16[/sup] In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance. [sup]17[/sup] When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. [sup]18[/sup] I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Anastacia · Nov 7, 2010

Eccl..12:13,

As I tried to explain in a couple of posts back, but want to take the time now to try to explain it better, just in case you miss what I'm saying.

So, why do you think that Jesus decended to the lover, earthly regions?
[sup]
[/sup]Ephesians 4:9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions[sup][c][/sup]? [sup]10[/sup] He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

c. Ephehsians 4:9 Or the depths of the earth

Why do you think Jesus preached to the imprisoned spirits?

1 Peter 3:18-19 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits

The scriptures tell us we have spirits. The scriptures tell us why Jesus preached to the imprisoned spirits....people who had been dead before Jesus died for our sins.

1 Peter 4:5-6 But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. [sup]6[/sup] For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

Jesus filled the whole universe! And everyone will have to giveaccount to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.

The scriptures tell us the Old Testament righteous waited for what was promised. They waited for Jesus to come into the world. None of them had yet received what had been promised, only together with us would they be made perfect. For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy. (Hebrews 10:14.)

Hebrews 11:39-40 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, [sup]40[/sup] since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Rach1370 · Nov 8, 2010

Hey Anastacia! I would say that all things are possible with God! Jesus just rose from the grave, so why couldn't Philip be whisked away by the Spirit.
When the disciples were afraid, Jesus appears to them walking on water!! So, yeah, could they miraculously reach the shore in an instant!
And Jesus in Revelations? This is one of my favourite images of Him! Our Lord came first time in humility, but now? And next time? He is a conquering King! He will come and win with only the power of His mouth! He comes, riding a horse, wielding a sword and a tattoo on His leg...He rocks!!

So, yeah, I totally believe that anything did, does and will happen, through Christ and the empowering of the Holy Spirit!!

Anastacia · Nov 8, 2010

Rach said:
Hey Anastacia! I would say that all things are possible with God! Jesus just rose from the grave, so why couldn't Philip be whisked away by the Spirit.
When the disciples were afraid, Jesus appears to them walking on water!! So, yeah, could they miraculously reach the shore in an instant!
And Jesus in Revelations? This is one of my favourite images of Him! Our Lord came first time in humility, but now? And next time? He is a conquering King! He will come and win with only the power of His mouth! He comes, riding a horse, wielding a sword and a tattoo on His leg...He rocks!!

So, yeah, I totally believe that anything did, does and will happen, through Christ and the empowering of the Holy Spirit!!

Hi Rach. I was with ya till the tattoo part. I just don't believe Jesus has a tattoo.lol I mean, if you read these two scriptures about how God will write on our hearts....I know it doesn't mean tattoo.

Jeremiah 31:33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

Hebrews 8:10 This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

Rach1370 · Nov 8, 2010

No seriously!! In Revelation when Jesus comes back riding a horse, defeating all with the sword of His mouth, it also says that written on his thigh is " KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS"
I mean I don't believe Jesus pops down to a tattoo parlor, but I also think its a permanent thing...just like His station!

Anastacia · Nov 8, 2010

Rach said:
No seriously!! In Revelation when Jesus comes back riding a horse, defeating all with the sword of His mouth, it also says that written on his thigh is " KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS"
I mean I don't believe Jesus pops down to a tattoo parlor, but I also think its a permanent thing...just like His station!

Oh yeah, I know the scripture. But think about not refering it to a tattoo....because according to the law, Jews did not get tattoos. Jews today still don't get tattoos. Jesus didn't get inked! =] And tattoos are of the flesh. For all we know, if it is a literal writing, we know it isn't an earthly thing like a tattoo. If it is a literal writing, then it could be writing on his robe on the thigh part. Or, it could be symbolic. Like the scriptures I've shown about God writing His law on our hearts, we can be sure our hearts aren't tattooed.

Eccl.12:13 · Nov 15, 2010

Anastacia said:
Why do you think Jesus preached to the imprisoned spirits?

1 Peter 4:5-6 But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. [sup]6[/sup] For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

The spirits spoken of are just that, "spirits" as in evil spirits. Let's read,

1 Pet.3
[19] By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
[20] Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Now which "spirits" were disobedient? All those "spirits" that followed Satan.

And as far as the following verse;

1 Pet.4
[6] For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Paul speaks about the dead also. But let's read if he is speaking about a non-living person....

Rom.6
[6] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
[7] For he that is dead is freed from sin.
[8] Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
[9] Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
[10] For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
[11] Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Now just as Paul speaks of us being "dead" with Christ, so is the verse you presented speaking the same.

1 Pet.4
[6] For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Those that are dead are those that are dead in Christ! How could men in the flesh judge those that are literally dead?

.

Anastacia · Nov 15, 2010

Eccl.12:13 said:
The spirits spoken of are just that, "spirits" as in evil spirits. Let's read,

1 Pet.3
[19] By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
[20] Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Now which "spirits" were disobedient? All those "spirits" that followed Satan.

And as far as the following verse;

1 Pet.4
[6] For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Paul speaks about the dead also. But let's read if he is speaking about a non-living person....

Rom.6
[6] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
[7] For he that is dead is freed from sin.
[8] Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
[9] Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
[10] For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
[11] Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Now just as Paul speaks of us being "dead" with Christ, so is the verse you presented speaking the same.

1 Pet.4
[6] For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Those that are dead are those that are dead in Christ! How could men in the flesh judge those that are literally dead?

So you still can't see that we have spirits that live on after the physical body dies. Like I said before, you have a doctrine of death, and, a delayed eternal life doctrine. You really have to deny, ignore, and twist many scriptures to get your false beliefs. And maybe you have a problem with faith, and therefore you doubt the Truth and power from God.

Here are some more scriptures for you to consider carefully. Read all of Hebrews 11, and I will post some of Hebrews 11 and 12 here. If you don't really read it and consider it carefully, then I don't know how you can have much of a chance at understanding. Pay close attention to all of it and Hebrews 11:39-40 and 12:1. In Hebrews 12:1 we are told that all those who had faith that had died, they are a "great cloud of witnesses." Witnesses can't be unconscience, they wouldn't be witnesses then.

Hebrews 11
[sup]32[/sup] And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson and Jephthah, about David and Samuel and the prophets, [sup]33[/sup] who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, [sup]34[/sup] quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. [sup]35[/sup] Women received back their dead, raised to life again. There were others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection. [sup]36[/sup] Some faced jeers and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. [sup]37[/sup] They were put to death by stoning;[sup][e][/sup] they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— [sup]38[/sup] the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, living in caves and in holes in the ground.

[sup]39[/sup] These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, [sup]40[/sup] since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

[sup]1[/sup] Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us,

Eccl.12:13 · Nov 15, 2010

Anastacia said:
"...since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect...."

Heb.11
[39] And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
[40] God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect

What was the promise?

WHEN will they receive the promise?

And did they receive the promise BEFORE Paul?

.

.

Anastacia · Nov 15, 2010

Eccl.12:13 said:
Heb.11
[39] And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
[40] God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect

What was the promise?

WHEN will they receive the promise?

And did they receive the promise BEFORE Paul?

.

Paul says they received the promise with them (with Paul and the believers). The promise of the Messiah. The being made perfect through the blood of the Lamb.

You see death where ever you go in the scriptures.

You overlooked the fact that they are "witnesses."

Eccl.12:13 · Nov 15, 2010

Anastacia said:
Paul says they received the promise with them (with Paul and the believers). The promise of the Messiah. The being made perfect through the blood of the Lamb.

You see death where ever you go in the scriptures.

You overlooked the fact that they are "witnesses."

Paul did NOT say they RECEIVED the promise. What Paul said is that they would not received the promise without him.

"God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect."

The promise was not the coming of the Messiah, for He was with ALL of the saints and the prophets of the OT. For the Messiah, Jesus Christ WAS the God of the OT!

Zech.12
[10] And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
John 8
[56] Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
1 Cor.10
[9] Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

The promise was eternal life.

Rom.6
[23] For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Tit.1
[2] In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
1 John 2
[25] And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

And in order to receive eternal life you must become literally perfect.

And when does one become perfect? For some it will be when the Lord returns. For others it will be at Judgement.

But NO ONE has at this time attained perfection. Let's read just when it will happen....

1 Corth.15
[49] And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

This is the time Paul speaks of as far as becoming perfect, NOT the coming of the Messiah!

.

Jesus Christ Is The Only “…first Born From The Dead.”

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