If Adam and Eve had not eaten from the tree of knowledge, how could they know it was wrong to do so

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Hidden In Him

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Ask and answer that question as pertains to a newborn. Then, given the consequences of 'making a boo boo', per the scriptures with regard to eating of the forbidden fruit, consider asking and answering that question as pertains to a newborn if the yes answer would result in the boo boo that would separate that newborn from their parent forever. (Or until a savior parent took their place generations later in the NT)

I just said they weren't children but adults! LoL.

{edited out}
Yes. That did not possess knowledge of good and evil, right and wrong, obedience or disobedience and their consequences.

They were told not to do it, and that they would die in the day they ate. Now if you were walking with your Creator, and He told you you were going to snuff it if you munched on the fruit of that one over there, you'd likely have enough sense to believe Him, yes? It took a deceiver to make God out to be a lair before they succumbed, which means they had enough sense beforehand to believe it was a bad idea, or there would have been no need to deceive them.
How do you qualify absolute sovereignty of a creator of all things, with humans having the free will to do anything they wish and that would, by your argument, be outside of God's control or awareness prior?

Because He didn't create a bunch of robots; He created beings with the ability to think and feel for themselves. But all things will be under the Lordship of Jesus Christ in eternity, and His will be a Lordship that is never questioned.

God is not a control freak. That's Satan's deal.
Sure. God created the cat first. Prior to the fall putting a sweater and sunglasses on a cat and setting them in a swing would seem innocent fun. After the fall it would seem like an unnecessary and meaningless act unless God predestined cats to wear sweaters, sunglasses, and sit in a swing.

Did God predestine the Boxer dog to be contained in a room while looking through glass at someone with a camera?

Ok, shut up, LoL. You're hurting my head. :p
 
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101G

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Yes, I know. I've handled actual vipers before. And I've met a few who walk on two feet. I prefer the ones without feet.
(smile)... lol, I feel you. well both, (with two feet, or none), both are dangerous, for both can KILL.... :eek: YIKES!.

Was verse 16 before Eve consumed the forbidden fruit?
NO, but in verse 16, it state what she was during before eating the "LIE"/Fruit.... :D

Re: Verse 20, where is there described the expulsion from the garden of all her offspring as well as she and Adam?
Genesis 2:24 "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."

to back this us, Genesis 4:14 "Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me."Genesis 4:15 "And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him."
as said, in Genesis 2:24 they left the Garden, because they was outside of the Garden as was Cain and Able, and it's where Cain got his wife from. and remember God command to Adam and Eve.... Genesis 1:28 "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." (smile). and they was doing it, having babies, and these babies grew up and left home, just as we do today, when grow up we leave mother and father and go into the world. BINGO. that's where the sons of God came from. it's all there in genesis.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

amigo de christo

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I've thought this to the point where my brain isn't able to go any further.
At this point I decided to trust God and believe what He says.
I know He loves me and takes care of me, and for me, that is enough.
a3687ff96d1fa87a9a193a3838c5a380.jpg
i concern not myself in matters too high for me . Too many are trying to speak for GOD , when they dont really KNOW why HE does as HE ALONE
is worthy TO DO . ME , i will stick to thanksgiving and praise to HIM .
 
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Hidden In Him

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Ask and answer that question as pertains to a newborn.

Alright. Let me take another run at this : )

The question was: "Is a newborn possessed of the cognition that would permit them to exercise free will?"

My answer here would be that a newborn hardly comprehends anything other than his backside has recently been slapped, and he now seems to be out of his former element, LoL. But if you were to ask this question about say a 1 or 2 year old - someone who if told by their parents not to do something fully comprehended they were not to (as Adam did when God told him not to eat of that tree) - my answer would be Yes. He has the mental cognition that doing so is wrong, not doing so is right, and he has a free will choice to make on whether he will or not.
Then, given the consequences of 'making a boo boo', per the scriptures with regard to eating of the forbidden fruit, consider asking and answering that question as pertains to a newborn if the yes answer would result in the boo boo that would separate that newborn from their parent forever. (Or until a savior parent took their place generations later in the NT)

But their sin did not fully separate them from God. Genesis says that God walked with Adam in the cool of the day, after he had already sinned. The thing it did was to close off the way for Adam to ascend to Heaven after he died, which he now would because he had sinned. But Adam's sin never "separated Him from God." It merely meant he would now have to have his sins atoned for before he could get to Heaven.
 

April_Rose

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We've never actually met. I just thought we bore a strong resemblance, so I commandeered his picture, for self-serving purposes.





Bruh he doesn't look a thing like you. You and your son are German Shepherds, your wife's a parakeet, and your neighbor's kid is a tree. (Only other people from another thread or have seen this thread will get this joke. :D)
 
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WaterSong

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Alright. Let me take another run at this : )

The question was: "Is a newborn possessed of the cognition that would permit them to exercise free will?"

My answer here would be that a newborn hardly comprehends anything other than his backside has recently been slapped, and he now seems to be out of his former element, LoL. But if you were to ask this question about say a 1 or 2 year old - someone who if told by their parents not to do something fully comprehended they were not to (as Adam did when God told him not to eat of that tree) - my answer would be Yes. He has the mental cognition that doing so is wrong, not doing so is right, and he has a free will choice to make on whether he will or not.
My point is, and I'm perhaps presenting it poorly so as to not be understood, without the cognizant awareness of right and wrong, how were Eve and Adam to comprehend a commandment regarding right and wrong behavior?

But their sin did not fully separate them from God. Genesis says that God walked with Adam in the cool of the day, after he had already sinned. The thing it did was to close off the way for Adam to ascend to Heaven after he died, which he now would because he had sinned. But Adam's sin never "separated Him from God." It merely meant he would now have to have his sins atoned for before he could get to Heaven.
Were they not immediately banished once God realized they'd eaten of the fruit of knowledge? Banished immediately so they would not then eat of the tree of life and live forever?

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 2:4-3:24 - New International Version
 

Hidden In Him

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My point is, and I'm perhaps presenting it poorly so as to not be understood, without the cognizant awareness of right and wrong, how were Eve and Adam to comprehend a commandment regarding right and wrong behavior?

Yes, Madam. I truly do get it. My point is that they obviously did have a cognizant awareness of right and wrong, or the woman would not have reminded the serpent that "I'm not supposed to eat fruit off the darn thing!" LoL.
Were they not immediately banished once God realized they'd eaten of the fruit of knowledge? Banished immediately so they would not then eat of the tree of life and live forever?

Yes, but they did not stop fellowshipping with God. It says "Enoch walked with God, and he was not; for God took him." (Genesis 5:24). Now if Enoch walked with Him, that means the opportunity was still open for every man to. They just lost their immortality in light is all.

I like your new signature, piggy and all, with the notable exception that there is not only now, there is eternity. :) If I thought there was only now, I would not be a very happy camper, LoL.
 
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WaterSong

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(smile)... lol, I feel you. well both, (with two feet, or none), both are dangerous, for both can KILL.... :eek: YIKES!.
True. However, in my view, the viper kills as a last resort because humans don't take the hint that they're not to be cuddled.
Humans kill for the sheer pleasure of it, some of them of course. I watched an episode of this homicide detectives show, real cases, First 48. There was a case where two people, bf/gf, were gunned down because the shooter thought the girl had stolen his gf's cell phone.
Two people, the girl shot in the head, over ...a cell phone?


NO, but in verse 16, it state what she was during before eating the "LIE"/Fruit.... :D
Sorry, would you please rephrase that in context?


Genesis 2:24 "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."

to back this us, Genesis 4:14 "Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me."Genesis 4:15 "And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him."
as said, in Genesis 2:24 they left the Garden, because they was outside of the Garden as was Cain and Able, and it's where Cain got his wife from. and remember God command to Adam and Eve.... Genesis 1:28 "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." (smile). and they was doing it, having babies, and these babies grew up and left home, just as we do today, when grow up we leave mother and father and go into the world. BINGO. that's where the sons of God came from. it's all there in genesis.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"[/QUOTE] Genesis 3:20 Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living.
 

WaterSong

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Yes, Madam. I truly do get it. My point is that they obviously did have a cognizant awareness of right and wrong, or the woman would not have reminded the serpent that "I'm not supposed to eat fruit off the darn thing!" LoL.
She repeated what she was told by God, yes. The point is, she was unable to understand fully the command and the consequences. Which is why she was so easily persuaded by the serpent to eat.
Think of the curses levied upon them afterward and by God. Would she have knowingly eaten if she had fully comprehended God's warning she would die should she eat?


Yes, but they did not stop fellowshipping with God. It says "Enoch walked with God, and he was not; for God took him." (Genesis 5:24). Now if Enoch walked with Him, that means the opportunity was still open for every man to. They just lost their immortality in light is all.
Adam and Eve were not mortal in the beginning. Their sin,eating of the forbidden fruit, made them mortal and able to taste death. The fall is named as such for precisely that. Their sin created a wall of separation between them and God.
How Did the Fall Affect Humankind and the Earth?
 

101G

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True. However, in my view, the viper kills as a last resort because humans don't take the hint that they're not to be cuddled.
Humans kill for the sheer pleasure of it, some of them of course. I watched an episode of this homicide detectives show, real cases, First 48. There was a case where two people, bf/gf, were gunned down because the shooter thought the girl had stolen his gf's cell phone.
Two people, the girl shot in the head, over ...a cell phone?


Sorry, would you please rephrase that in context?


Genesis 2:24 "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."

to back this us, Genesis 4:14 "Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me."Genesis 4:15 "And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him."
as said, in Genesis 2:24 they left the Garden, because they was outside of the Garden as was Cain and Able, and it's where Cain got his wife from. and remember God command to Adam and Eve.... Genesis 1:28 "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." (smile). and they was doing it, having babies, and these babies grew up and left home, just as we do today, when grow up we leave mother and father and go into the world. BINGO. that's where the sons of God came from. it's all there in genesis.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
Genesis 3:20 Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living.[/QUOTE]

GINOLJC, to all,
First thanks for the reply, second, vipers kill, and so do people, motive or not.

third, this is why I perfer the KJV translation, becaue they got it right... you posted, "Genesis 3:20 Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living. .... EEEOR, and since it is writter, that's a LIE.

lets get it right and see why your scripture is a LIE. TRUTH, Genesis 3:20 "And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.". "was", is past tense, and to reveal you scripture LIE, is the keyword in the both verses is, "LIVING", all her children she will have from now on, (after the fall "would become DEAD", because of SIN), all here children will be born spiritually "DEAD", because of sin. see how your scripture lie, "she would become the mother of all the living". how easy it is to catch a lie. DEATH passed onto all men, so how are they going to be alive to God?. understand, She and her husband ...... DIED, when they ate, listen, Genesis 2:17 "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." see how easy it is to expose a LIE. so all her childern ... "would be DEAD, to God.... not alive to God, why because DEATH passed onto all men :eek: YIKES! so that by itself expose your verse translation as a lie. as I said, this is why the churches today, are in such bad shape because of lies just like this.

now lets see why Eve is called the Mother of all LIVING. Genesis 3:16 "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."
here is the keyword that tells why she "WAS" the mother of all LIVING... it is the word, multiply, or INCREASE. it's a fact one cannot "INCREASE", or multiply something unless it has already happen. example, if I was, was, sitting still in a vehicle/car, I cannot increase my speed unless I'm first, "ALREADY" in motion, that a scientific FACT. so what was, was, was, Eve doing ALREADY when God told her, listen carefully,
"I will greatlymultiply thy sorrow and thy conception"

what do sorrow here means,
H6093 עִצָּבוֹן `itstsabown (its-tsaw-ɓone') n-m.
worrisomeness, i.e. labor or pain.
[from H6087]
KJV: sorrow, toil.
Root(s): H6087

EVE was, was, was, having "labor or pain" why? because of her,
conception
H2032 הֵרוֹן herown (hay-rone') n-m.
הֵרָיוֹן herayown (hay-raw-yone')
pregnancy.
[from H2029]
KJV: conception.
Root(s): H2029

That's why, because she was, was, was, having pregnancies. others words, she was, was, was, having children. this is why she ... "WAS" ... called the Mother of all Living, because all her children before she sin WAS, WAS, WAS, alive to God, Spiritually. BINGO. all her children after the fall/death of sin would be born dead to God. why as said, DEATH passed unto all men, that is why when a woman have a child, it must be as the Lord Jesus said in John 3:5 "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water (NATURAL CHILD BIRTH) and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." BINGO, one must be BORN AGAIN, because until Christ came, all children was BORN DEAD to GOD. so that LIE, "she would be" is just that a LIE.

this is how one exposes false doctrine by TRUTH, the scriptures. see how they the evil ones, wrote, "She ... "WOULD" ..... be the mother of all living". how could she, when she was DEAD herself..... :p YIKES! see how the lie would have went, if one did not know the TRUTH.... drop that translation, and get yourself a KJV.

another lie exposed in Genesis.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 
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Hidden In Him

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She repeated what she was told by God, yes. The point is, she was unable to understand fully the command and the consequences. Which is why she was so easily persuaded by the serpent to eat.

Meh... ok... I guess.

Crap. This conversation is starting to bum me out now, LoL. Alright, alright, alright. So she didn't fully understand the consequences. Cheer up. The story has a happy ended, ok? Jeez.
Think of the curses levied upon them afterward and by God. Would she have knowingly eaten if she had fully comprehended God's warning she would die should she eat?

NO SHE WOULD NOT. And you've made your point. Now can God catch a little break here? :p The Lord's gonna make everything alright, and He already has in their case, so enough with the bumming me out. If anything, MAYBE the point of the story was she wasn't supposed to take the LEAD, you ever think of that? Maybe since she didn't fully understand the risks she was taking, she would have been a little smarter to go to Adam before taking matters into her own hands, and say, "Hey, this snake is talking to me over here. Come tell me what WE should be doing here. I mean, after all, I was taken from your rib, and you and God had a thing going before I got here, sooo..."

Grrrrrr... :mad: ;)

Thanks for taking me back to the bloody Garden. Now I know what Adam probably went through, AFTER he came to the realization that his true love had sold them BOTH down the bloody river, LoL.

"Yes, dear, by all means, lead on from here on out. I trust you emphatically." He's happy, but little does he know Niagara Falls lay dead ahead....

Kiss it goodbye, Mr. Rose-colored Glasses. Your little "joy ride" is about to tank head first into the abyss of despair. :rolleyes:

man-and-woman-kayaking-picture-id78466419
 
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WaterSong

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Meh... ok... I guess.

Crap. This conversation is starting to bum me out now, LoL. Alright, alright, alright. So she didn't fully understand the consequences. Cheer up. The story has a happy ended, ok? Jeez.
LOL OK. Well, I guess you're really not going to like this next part then.
Adam and Eve were not mortal before consuming the forbidden fruit. Why, after they did do that, was it wrong for them to be like "us" (God), knowing good and evil? If it was good enough for God to have knowledge why was it a damnable offense for Adam and Eve to have it too? When they were in may respects like unto God prior to eating the fruit, being in the spirit and one with God.


]quote] NO SHE WOULD NOT. And you've made your point. Now can God catch a little break here? :p The Lord's gonna make everything alright, and He already has in their case, so enough with the bumming me out. If anything, MAYBE the point of the story was she wasn't supposed to take the LEAD, you ever think of that? Maybe since she didn't fully understand the risks she was taking, she would have been a little smarter to go to Adam before taking matters into her own hands, and say, "Hey, this snake is talking to me over here. Come tell me what WE should be doing here. I mean, after all, I was taken from your rib, and you and God had a thing going before I got here, sooo..."[/quote] Eve led? The scriptures say by one man sin entered the world.
Ever consider God could have made everything OK there if he'd not planted that one tree in the garden?
Or, if he'd have forgiven Adam and Eve for an ignorant innocent mistake when they did eat of it and because they were persuaded to that end by a wiser adversary God let into his garden? And this after he let him live having lost the war he started in Heaven against him. Then cast him down to earth to vex the human race God had yet to create?

Grrrrrr... :mad: ;)
LOL Red is a good color for you. :p ;)

Thanks for taking me back to the bloody Garden. Now I know what Adam probably went through, AFTER he came to the realization that his true love had sold them BOTH down the bloody river, LoL.
He sold them both down the river. By one man....remember?

"Yes, dear, by all means, lead on from here on out. I trust you emphatically." He's happy, but little does he know Niagara Falls lay dead ahead....

Kiss it goodbye, Mr. Rose-colored Glasses. Your little "joy ride" is about to tank head first into the abyss of despair. :rolleyes:

man-and-woman-kayaking-picture-id78466419
"Row, row, row your boat gently down the stream, merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream!" (Paddle Adam, paddle! Put your back into it boy! ) lol
 

WaterSong

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GINOLJC, to all,
First thanks for the reply, second, vipers kill, and so do people, motive or not.

third, this is why I perfer the KJV translation, becaue they got it right... you posted, "Genesis 3:20 Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living. .... EEEOR, and since it is writter, that's a LIE.

lets get it right and see why your scripture is a LIE. TRUTH, Genesis 3:20 "And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.". "was", is past tense, and to reveal you scripture LIE, is the keyword in the both verses is, "LIVING", all her children she will have from now on, (after the fall "would become DEAD", because of SIN), all here children will be born spiritually "DEAD", because of sin. see how your scripture lie, "she would become the mother of all the living". how easy it is to catch a lie. DEATH passed onto all men, so how are they going to be alive to God?. understand, She and her husband ...... DIED, when they ate, listen, Genesis 2:17 "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." see how easy it is to expose a LIE. so all her childern ... "would be DEAD, to God.... not alive to God, why because DEATH passed onto all men :eek: YIKES! so that by itself expose your verse translation as a lie. as I said, this is why the churches today, are in such bad shape because of lies just like this.

now lets see why Eve is called the Mother of all LIVING. Genesis 3:16 "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."
here is the keyword that tells why she "WAS" the mother of all LIVING... it is the word, multiply, or INCREASE. it's a fact one cannot "INCREASE", or multiply something unless it has already happen. example, if I was, was, sitting still in a vehicle/car, I cannot increase my speed unless I'm first, "ALREADY" in motion, that a scientific FACT. so what was, was, was, Eve doing ALREADY when God told her, listen carefully,
"I will greatlymultiply thy sorrow and thy conception"

what do sorrow here means,
H6093 עִצָּבוֹן `itstsabown (its-tsaw-ɓone') n-m.
worrisomeness, i.e. labor or pain.
[from H6087]
KJV: sorrow, toil.
Root(s): H6087

EVE was, was, was, having "labor or pain" why? because of her,
conception
H2032 הֵרוֹן herown (hay-rone') n-m.
הֵרָיוֹן herayown (hay-raw-yone')
pregnancy.
[from H2029]
KJV: conception.
Root(s): H2029

That's why, because she was, was, was, having pregnancies. others words, she was, was, was, having children. this is why she ... "WAS" ... called the Mother of all Living, because all her children before she sin WAS, WAS, WAS, alive to God, Spiritually. BINGO. all her children after the fall/death of sin would be born dead to God. why as said, DEATH passed unto all men, that is why when a woman have a child, it must be as the Lord Jesus said in John 3:5 "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water (NATURAL CHILD BIRTH) and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." BINGO, one must be BORN AGAIN, because until Christ came, all children was BORN DEAD to GOD. so that LIE, "she would be" is just that a LIE.

this is how one exposes false doctrine by TRUTH, the scriptures. see how they the evil ones, wrote, "She ... "WOULD" ..... be the mother of all living". how could she, when she was DEAD herself..... :p YIKES! see how the lie would have went, if one did not know the TRUTH.... drop that translation, and get yourself a KJV.

another lie exposed in Genesis.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"[/QUOTE]
There's only one problem with your present tense premise behind, mother of all living. Adam and Eve did not procreate while in Eden. They were innocent and knew not lust. After they ate of the forbidden fruit they were expelled. That would be when they would know lust, because immediately after eating they realized they were naked and, unlike prior when they were naked, now felt shame for being nude.
Also, and there is no scripture that states Adam and Eve procreated before The Fall, there is no mention after The Fall of God banishing Adam and Eve and their offspring from the garden.
Therefore, while Eve would be the mother of future generations, there is nothing that states Eve was a mother while in Eden and prior to eating of the forbidden fruit.