Is replacement theology biblical?

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theefaith

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In Jesus name I rebuke you!

with me or against me
Abide in me
Baptized in Christ
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

do the Jews do any of this NO!

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

not only denied Him the killed Him
 

Davy

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israel rejected and crucified Jesus Christ
Acts 2:36
2 Tim 2:12
Matt 12:30
Matt 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


There really is a whole lot... of The Bible that you are missing. But you're not alone.

A Summary of Israel Beginning With God's Promises to Abraham:
1. God gave Abraham His Birthright Promise. Abraham believed, which included The Gospel Promise by Faith (precursor of the New Covenant).

2. God's Birthright Promise and Blessings then went to Isaac.

3. The Birthright then went to Jacob, who would later be called the new name Israel to signify the Gospel Promise. The fact that some of the children of Israel did not believe did not affect The Promise going forth among the chosen seed that did believe.

4. The Birthright then went to Joseph, who was separated from his 11 brethren into Egypt.

5. The Birthright then went to Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh where it still is today, in the Christian West. God promised to Jacob that his seed would become "a nation" (the Israel of the land of Judea), and also "a company of nations" (the eventual Western Christian nations that first accepted The Gospel of Jesus Christ on national scales. God scattered the ten northern tribes of Israel first, and in Asia Minor and Europe is where the majority of them wound up, with the tribe of Ephraim still as head tribe).

6. After the unbelieving Jews rejected Christ and The Gospel in Jerusalem, The Gospel was preached specifically to the ten lost tribes of the house of Israel in those lands in the West. This is how the Christian nations started. God blinded the majority of the unbelieving Jews so The Gospel would go the Gentiles, and they would believe. The preaching to those Gentiles included the the majority of the ten lost tribes of Israel among them. Both together would become Christ's Church, Apostle Paul's "commonwealth of Israel" per Ephesians 2.

7. From the Christian West, ambassadors would be sent to the nations of the world preaching The Gospel of Jesus Christ. Many of the nations who believed would be added to Christ's Church, as it still is to this day. One of the biggest followings in foreign nations with peoples believing on Christ Jesus is still underway today. It has the unbelieving enemies of Christ upset, so they are trying to tighten the screws globally upon all nations to try and control who we listen to and what we believe. They will not be able to control it. God is pouring out His Spirit upon His believers today like never before, as was prophesied at the end of Joel 2. This will eventually lead to Christ's enemies preparing their world king, a false-Messiah, to be setup as king over all the earth, and require all peoples bow to him in place of God, or be killed. Christ's elect will still not give in to them. This is what the time of "great tribulation" Jesus foretold of will be about. The whole world will be deceived by that false-Messiah, excepting Christ's elect.

8. On the day of Christ's return to gather His faithful, the unbelievers will see Christ coming in the clouds and will immediately find themselves in shame. They will even wish for the hills and mountains to fall up themselves because of their shame. That is Christ's sense of one being found spiritually naked on that day. For those who did believe on Christ, but fell away and were deceived by the false-Messiah, their appearing naked having lost their garments (white robes) per Christ's warning of Rev.16:15 is what that is about. The job of Christ's faithful elect that were not deceived, on that day their duty will be to educate those about the difference between the clean and unclean, the holy vs. the profane. The deceived of God's people will stand in judgment all throughout Christ's future "thousand years" reign, which is what the "rod of iron" is for.
 

Keraz

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I don't entirely disagree with you. When I say I love the Jews, or when I say I love Israel, I'm loving them in the hope they convert and find their destiny.
Very good, we should hope for and work toward the Salvation of everyone.
But we are specifically told to NOT pray for the Jews. Jeremiah 14:1-22 & 11:14

The belief of a general Jewish redemption is simply not prophesied. The Lord virtually wiping them out; is. Isaiah 22:14, Amos 2:4-5
 

teamventure

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There really is a whole lot... of The Bible that you are missing. But you're not alone.

A Summary of Israel Beginning With God's Promises to Abraham:
1. God gave Abraham His Birthright Promise. Abraham believed, which included The Gospel Promise by Faith (precursor of the New Covenant).

2. God's Birthright Promise and Blessings then went to Isaac.

3. The Birthright then went to Jacob, who would later be called the new name Israel to signify the Gospel Promise. The fact that some of the children of Israel did not believe did not affect The Promise going forth among the chosen seed that did believe.

4. The Birthright then went to Joseph, who was separated from his 11 brethren into Egypt.

5. The Birthright then went to Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh where it still is today, in the Christian West. God promised to Jacob that his seed would become "a nation" (the Israel of the land of Judea), and also "a company of nations" (the eventual Western Christian nations that first accepted The Gospel of Jesus Christ on national scales. God scattered the ten northern tribes of Israel first, and in Asia Minor and Europe is where the majority of them wound up, with the tribe of Ephraim still as head tribe).

6. After the unbelieving Jews rejected Christ and The Gospel in Jerusalem, The Gospel was preached specifically to the ten lost tribes of the house of Israel in those lands in the West. This is how the Christian nations started. God blinded the majority of the unbelieving Jews so The Gospel would go the Gentiles, and they would believe. The preaching to those Gentiles included the the majority of the ten lost tribes of Israel among them. Both together would become Christ's Church, Apostle Paul's "commonwealth of Israel" per Ephesians 2.

7. From the Christian West, ambassadors would be sent to the nations of the world preaching The Gospel of Jesus Christ. Many of the nations who believed would be added to Christ's Church, as it still is to this day. One of the biggest followings in foreign nations with peoples believing on Christ Jesus is still underway today. It has the unbelieving enemies of Christ upset, so they are trying to tighten the screws globally upon all nations to try and control who we listen to and what we believe. They will not be able to control it. God is pouring out His Spirit upon His believers today like never before, as was prophesied at the end of Joel 2. This will eventually lead to Christ's enemies preparing their world king, a false-Messiah, to be setup as king over all the earth, and require all peoples bow to him in place of God, or be killed. Christ's elect will still not give in to them. This is what the time of "great tribulation" Jesus foretold of will be about. The whole world will be deceived by that false-Messiah, excepting Christ's elect.

8. On the day of Christ's return to gather His faithful, the unbelievers will see Christ coming in the clouds and will immediately find themselves in shame. They will even wish for the hills and mountains to fall up themselves because of their shame. That is Christ's sense of one being found spiritually naked on that day. For those who did believe on Christ, but fell away and were deceived by the false-Messiah, their appearing naked having lost their garments (white robes) per Christ's warning of Rev.16:15 is what that is about. The job of Christ's faithful elect that were not deceived, on that day their duty will be to educate those about the difference between the clean and unclean, the holy vs. the profane. The deceived of God's people will stand in judgment all throughout Christ's future "thousand years" reign, which is what the "rod of iron" is for.

I found point 8 particularly interesting
Could you tell me more about the decieved of Gods people being corrected? This would be a distinction maybe between liberal Christians and fundemental Christians.
 

Randy Kluth

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Very good, we should hope for and work toward the Salvation of everyone.
But we are specifically told to NOT pray for the Jews. Jeremiah 14:1-22 & 11:14

The belief of a general Jewish redemption is simply not prophesied. The Lord virtually wiping them out; is. Isaiah 22:14, Amos 2:4-5

Your problem, Keraz, is that you don't seem to be able to distinguish between prophecies that speak of a particular situation in a particular time period and a statement that applies for all time. Obviously, "don't pray for this people" referred to a limited time in Israel's history when they went past the point of no return in terms of divine judgment coming upon them. It was too late--judgment was already coming.

But no way did this statement apply to the Jews for all time! Obviously, after this statement was made, the Jews were restored. And as I quoted you, the Disciples believed that Israel would one day be restored. Jesus did not correct them on that notion, affirming it as a legitimate belief.

If the Jews can't be forgiven, who can be forgiven? That's the very argument Paul makes in the letter of Romans. If grace was given, by Christ, to the Jews on Calvary, then it equally applies to the pagan Gentiles, who don't deserve this grace. And if grace is shown to the pagan Gentiles, then the Jews are equally eligible for this grace again.
 

Keraz

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Your problem, Keraz, is that you don't seem to be able to distinguish between prophecies that speak of a particular situation in a particular time period and a statement that applies for all time. Obviously, "don't pray for this people" referred to a limited time in Israel's history when they went past the point of no return in terms of divine judgment coming upon them. It was too late--judgment was already coming.

But no way did this statement apply to the Jews for all time! Obviously, after this statement was made, the Jews were restored. And as I quoted you, the Disciples believed that Israel would one day be restored. Jesus did not correct them on that notion, affirming it as a legitimate belief.

If the Jews can't be forgiven, who can be forgiven? That's the very argument Paul makes in the letter of Romans. If grace was given, by Christ, to the Jews on Calvary, then it equally applies to the pagan Gentiles, who don't deserve this grace. And if grace is shown to the pagan Gentiles, then the Jews are equally eligible for this grace again.
Those who call themselves Jews are eligible for Salvation, but the Bible never says they will repent and be saved as a group.
Jeremiah 14:1-22 & 11:14 apply for all time, your opinion of this instruction is not supported in the context.

Church teachings on the issue of the Jewish peoples, has a lot to answer for. They avoid the many prophesies that plainly say how the entire Middle East will be virtually depopulated in the forthcoming Lord's Day of fiery wrath. Only a small remnant will survive; of those who are Christians now. Isaiah 29:1-4
The general redemption of Judah is an immutable tenet of the 'rapture' to heaven of the Church theory. Neither will happen.
 

Randy Kluth

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Those who call themselves Jews are eligible for Salvation, but the Bible never says they will repent and be saved as a group.
Jeremiah 14:1-22 & 11:14 apply for all time, your opinion of this instruction is not supported in the context.

We're going to have to disagree on that. All kinds of judgments were hurled by God against Israel during those times of abject depravity and religious apostasy. God indicated at some point that there was no turning back. Nobody's intercession would matter any longer. That certainly was not a statement about Jews living in the 21st century! Why would God condemn a whole race to something that Hebrews did wrong in ages past?

As to whether or not God said the Jews would be saved as a group, I think you've heard the proof texts in this respect? It has been called "the Jewish Hope," or "the hope of Israel for the Messianic Kingdom."

In Acts 1 we read of the Disciples of Jesus asking him when this national regathering would take place. There are significant portions of the Prophets in which Israel's hope *as a nation* is spelled out, your arguments against this not withstanding.

But there is no question that God denied that in the present age Israel will be unable to achieve its national aspirations. Until the age of Gentile dominion over the Jews comes to an end, the Jews will largely remain in unbelief. A remnant of Christians among them, however, signal that the day of national transformation is coming after this age comes to an end, and after final judgment against the majority of Jews.

Church teachings on the issue of the Jewish peoples, has a lot to answer for. They avoid the many prophesies that plainly say how the entire Middle East will be virtually depopulated in the forthcoming Lord's Day of fiery wrath. Only a small remnant will survive; of those who are Christians now. Isaiah 29:1-4
The general redemption of Judah is an immutable tenet of the 'rapture' to heaven of the Church theory. Neither will happen.

This has little to do with the Pretrib Rapture theory, which we both disagree with. The great judgment to befall the Middle East will indeed impact a large number of Jews, because many are as bad as they ever were. God is going to clean them out, to give grace to the few willing to repent. And I believe Scriptures says God will build the nation *after* this final catastrophe that will impacts both the Jews and the entire Middle East.
 

Keraz

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Why would God condemn a whole race to something that Hebrews did wrong in ages past?
Because they continue in their rejection of Jesus, openly flaunt LGBT and never acknowledge God as their helper.
As to whether or not God said the Jews would be saved as a group, I think you've heard the proof texts in this respect? It has been called "the Jewish Hope," or "the hope of Israel for the Messianic Kingdom."
Here is where people get confused between ethnic Jewish Israel and spiritual faithful Israel. The Jews are gathered for Judgment and true Israel will be gathered for Blessing.
after final judgment against the majority of Jews.
This Judgment/ punishment will be the next prophesied event; the Sixth Seal Lord's Day of fiery wrath. Only a small remnant will survive by hiding underground. As Isaiah 29:1-4 graphically informs us. Isaiah 29:5-6 describes this sudden devastation and the entire Middle East will be depopulated. Jeremiah 12:14, Zephaniah 1:1-18, +
And I believe Scriptures says God will build the nation *after* this final catastrophe that will impacts both the Jews and the entire Middle East.
The new nation that will be established in all of the holy Land, will consist of only the faithful Christian peoples. Isaiah 62:1-5, Ezekiel 34:11-16 and Jeremiah 31:1-40 tells the story and confirms when the Lord will make the New Covenant with His righteous people.
 

Randy Kluth

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Because they continue in their rejection of Jesus, openly flaunt LGBT and never acknowledge God as their helper.

How are the Jewish People different than any other racial group? How is their nation different than any other nation? Many nations have become "the chosen people" and a "chosen nation of God." But all of them, over time, slip up and fall away, becoming despicable people in the process.

The point is, the Jewish People are an example to the world, to show the dangers in becoming a people of God. There is a constant danger of slipping up. And even though all nations ultimately slip up, they can experience revivals, reformations, and restorations. Why you think the Jewish People are exempt from national reconstitution at the 2nd Coming of Christ I can't understand?

Here is where people get confused between ethnic Jewish Israel and spiritual faithful Israel. The Jews are gathered for Judgment and true Israel will be gathered for Blessing.

You divide Jew from Jew? I would say that the Jewish majority will suffer judgment because the majority of that nation have fallen away and have resisted Christ. But I would say the same for every former Christian nation, in which the majority have turned away and have become despicable people.

After all these nations have experienced judgment at the 2nd Coming, these nations can and will be restored, I believe. Certainly, it was promised for the Jewish People. And I believe it was promised Abraham that it would happen for many other nations of faith as well.

This Judgment/ punishment will be the next prophesied event; the Sixth Seal Lord's Day of fiery wrath. Only a small remnant will survive by hiding underground. As Isaiah 29:1-4 graphically informs us. Isaiah 29:5-6 describes this sudden devastation and the entire Middle East will be depopulated. Jeremiah 12:14, Zephaniah 1:1-18, +

God said that never again would the earth be destroyed by a flood. By that I think He also meant to say He wouldn't depopulate the planet either. He will bring comprehensive judgment, but not a judgment that will depopulate major regions like the Middle East. When God did depopulate certain areas in the past, it was narrowly applied to certain very wicked cities.

The new nation that will be established in all of the holy Land, will consist of only the faithful Christian peoples. Isaiah 62:1-5, Ezekiel 34:11-16 and Jeremiah 31:1-40 tells the story and confirms when the Lord will make the New Covenant with His righteous people.

As I've said before, brother, it may be that one day we will all gather in Jerusalem in the Middle East. The dimensions of the New Jerusalem cover the entire Middle East and reach up past our satellites and into space-a huge area! But I do think the entire planet will belong to all of us--why just move to the Middle East when there's an entire planet promised to us? To the meek Jesus promised the earth. :)
 

Keraz

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Why you think the Jewish People are exempt from national reconstitution at the 2nd Coming of Christ I can't understand?
Because about 20 graphically stated prophesies tell us the Lord will virtually destroy Judah.
You divide Jew from Jew?
Paul does; Romans 2:29
God said that never again would the earth be destroyed by a flood. By that I think He also meant to say He wouldn't depopulate the planet either. He will bring comprehensive judgment, but not a judgment that will depopulate major regions like the Middle East. When God did depopulate certain areas in the past, it was narrowly applied to certain very wicked cities.
The rainbow is the sign that God will never again flood the earth. But over 100 prophesies tell us that the next time the world is as in the days of Noah, He will use fire. It will be a worldwide devastation and most people will die, but many will survive; hiding in shelters.
You simply ignore prophesies like Zephaniah 1:1-18, Revelation 14:18-20, + Your opinion is not Bible exegesis.
As I've said before, brother, it may be that one day we will all gather in Jerusalem in the Middle East. The dimensions of the New Jerusalem cover the entire Middle East and reach up past our satellites and into space-a huge area! But I do think the entire planet will belong to all of us--why just move to the Middle East when there's an entire planet promised to us? To the meek Jesus promised the earth.
Much must happen before utopia comes. Why not know about it all?
 

Randy Kluth

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Because about 20 graphically stated prophesies tell us the Lord will virtually destroy Judah.

Paul does; Romans 2:29

The rainbow is the sign that God will never again flood the earth. But over 100 prophesies tell us that the next time the world is as in the days of Noah, He will use fire. It will be a worldwide devastation and most people will die, but many will survive; hiding in shelters.
You simply ignore prophesies like Zephaniah 1:1-18, Revelation 14:18-20, + Your opinion is not Bible exegesis.

Nor is your interpretation of the Bible necessarily correct. Sometimes we're forced to guess and have opinions. I don't claim to be stating things absolutely at those times. I think we need to test our opinions and our interpretations against other Bible passages, for confirmation purposes.

The Flood story was designed not to be tricky, to say: "I, God, promised I wouldn't destroy the world by water, but I never said I wouldn't destroy it by *fire!" No, I think the purpose was to show that God would find something redeeming about our planet, and find a means to fulfill His original plan to populate the earth.

Yes, refinement of the peoples comes before the fulfillment of a fully-populated earth. But this is different from a complete depopulation of entire regions!
 

Davy

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I found point 8 particularly interesting
Could you tell me more about the decieved of Gods people being corrected? This would be a distinction maybe between liberal Christians and fundemental Christians.

Study Ezekiel 44. When you see reference to the "Zadok" (The Just), those represent Christ's elect Church that they only will be allowed to approach Him and serve Him at His table in that future time. The Levites that fell away when Israel went astray will still be priests, but they will be responsible for the menial duties in God's House, as a type of punishment in shame, because they will not be allowed to approach Jesus in that time (remember the foolish virgins Jesus revealed He will close the door upon, or those in Matthew 7 He will say, "... depart from Me, ye that work iniquity".

Some who find this difficult with applying Ezekiel 44 to Christ's Church also often miss that God made Ezekiel a prophet to the "house of Israel" at a time after the ten tribes had already been separated from the house of Judah and were scattered beyond Euphrates. The ten tribes have direct connection in The Gospel which definitely involves Christ's Church, and... it's also easy to know this because those allowed to approach Christ at His table in that future time we know is about His elect Church, because that is who He promised would rule with Him with the rod of iron.
 
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theefaith

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Jn 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Jn 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

but as a nation the new covenant replaced the old and the church replaced Israel matt 21:43
 

Keraz

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The Flood story was designed not to be tricky, to say: "I, God, promised I wouldn't destroy the world by water, but I never said I wouldn't destroy it by *fire!" No, I think the purpose was to show that God would find something redeeming about our planet, and find a means to fulfill His original plan to populate the earth.
Jesus said: As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be when the Son of Man comes. Matthew 24:37-40
Obviously referring to another worldwide disaster of a similar magnitude as the Flood. Can't be by water the next time, clearly stated to be by fire. 2 Peter 3:7
Yes, refinement of the peoples comes before the fulfillment of a fully-populated earth. But this is different from a complete depopulation of entire regions!
Read Ezekiel 30:1-5, Jeremiah 10:18, Hosea 4:3, Zephaniah 1:1-18, +
The holy Land will be cleared and cleansed, Deuteronomy 32:34-43. Only the Lord's faithful people will go to live there. Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26
 

Nancy

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Peter and the apostles are dead, and had their own mission fields. They were called to start the Church by establishing the knowledge of the faith in the world. They did not begin a political organization with a fixed succession. There is nothing in the Bible about this. Christ is head of the church. He does not rule through a chain of apostles ruling in an organization down through history.

There was not one organized Church at the beginning, nor has there been only one since. There were several patriarchates, the Catholic Church only being one.

The "catholic" Church is only universally one when each individual places their faith in Christ as their Redeemer. There is only one faith and one Christ, and therefore only one universal Church body. And it is not defined by an organization, but rather, by our unity of faith in Christ.

We do not have to join any organized Church. We are exhorted only to remain in fellowship with other Christians, recognizing that the Holy Spirit gives gifts of ministry as He wills--not as men choose necessarily.

Spot on post Randy!
True "church" is when Christians get together, break bread together, worship in song and talk of His wonders all night or day, together as one in Him, AMEN...kinda sounds like Acts. Distribute as needed and loving God Almighty as one. It is more simple than most make it. There is only one denomination...The Way! Christ alone.
 
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Randy Kluth

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Jesus said: As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be when the Son of Man comes. Matthew 24:37-40
Obviously referring to another worldwide disaster of a similar magnitude as the Flood. Can't be by water the next time, clearly stated to be by fire. 2 Peter 3:7

Read Ezekiel 30:1-5, Jeremiah 10:18, Hosea 4:3, Zephaniah 1:1-18, +
The holy Land will be cleared and cleansed, Deuteronomy 32:34-43. Only the Lord's faithful people will go to live there. Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26

I know the Bible. The Scriptures often speak with a focus on a particular event at a particular time. Sometimes universal language is applied only to a local event.

I may say that a backslidden, rebellious friend is despicable and won't be forgiven for his acts of rage, that he will pay the last penny for damages, and that even with apologies there is no turning back--he will go to jail. If I say this, and apply it to a particular situation to a particular friend at one time in his life, I may seem to speak in universal language, as if my friend is lost to Hell forever.

But in reality, 10 years later, my friend may be fully reformed, walking with Christ, and in no danger of future punishments. The words of the prophets have to be understood *in their context!*

Israel at one time was despicable, and apostate, and the prophets railed against them, saying they would not be forgiven. Even today, the majority of Jews remain lost, but being lost they are not necessarily rebellious like they were in ancient times when the prophets railed against them.

And even if only a small remnant of Jews are Christians today, and throughout the NT age, what prevents a nation from turning to being a Christian nation? If France did it under Clovis, if England did it under Christian kings, if Germany did it, Russia did it, the US did it, etc. etc., what on earth prevents Israel from doing it once Christ comes back and deals in judgment with the hard-hearted majority who are seeking to prevent this from happening?

But yes, Jesus compared his 2nd Coming to the Flood, because both constitute a universal judgment. In the case of the Flood it exterminated an entire civilization across an entire region, at the very least. In the case of the 2nd Coming, there will be a world war, I believe. One wiped out a civilization. The other punishes, but does not exterminate, the population.

So the difference is this. The Flood absolutely exterminated mankind within this region. It scrubbed humanity clean of the area.

On the other hand, the 2nd Coming is not designed to destroy mankind, like the Flood did. What makes it similar is the universality of the judgment. But it does not contradict what God said about the Flood, that He would never again scrub mankind from an entire region of the planet like that. At the 2nd Coming, He will not exterminate mankind from any region, because His purpose has always been to fill the earth with people. Rather, he will judge them, which is to discriminate between the good and evil among them.
 

Nancy

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I know the Bible. The Scriptures often speak with a focus on a particular event at a particular time. Sometimes universal language is applied only to a local event.

I may say that a backslidden, rebellious friend is despicable and won't be forgiven for his acts of rage, that he will pay the last penny for damages, and that even with apologies there is no turning back--he will go to jail. If I say this, and apply it to a particular situation to a particular friend at one time in his life, I may seem to speak in universal language, as if my friend is lost to Hell forever.

But in reality, 10 years later, my friend may be fully reformed, walking with Christ, and in no danger of future punishments. The words of the prophets have to be understood *in their context!*

Israel at one time was despicable, and apostate, and the prophets railed against them, saying they would not be forgiven. Even today, the majority of Jews remain lost, but being lost they are not necessarily rebellious like they were in ancient times when the prophets railed against them.

And even if only a small remnant of Jews are Christians today, and throughout the NT age, what prevents a nation from turning to being a Christian nation? If France did it under Clovis, if England did it under Christian kings, if Germany did it, Russia did it, the US did it, etc. etc., what on earth prevents Israel from doing it once Christ comes back and deals in judgment with the hard-hearted majority who are seeking to prevent this from happening?

But yes, Jesus compared his 2nd Coming to the Flood, because both constitute a universal judgment. In the case of the Flood it exterminated an entire civilization across an entire region, at the very least. In the case of the 2nd Coming, there will be a world war, I believe. One wiped out a civilization. The other punishes, but does not exterminate, the population.

So the difference is this. The Flood absolutely exterminated mankind within this region. It scrubbed humanity clean of the area.

On the other hand, the 2nd Coming is not designed to destroy mankind, like the Flood did. What makes it similar is the universality of the judgment. But it does not contradict what God said about the Flood, that He would never again scrub mankind from an entire region of the planet like that. At the 2nd Coming, He will not exterminate mankind from any region, because His purpose has always been to fill the earth with people. Rather, he will judge them, which is to discriminate between the good and evil among them.

Hi Randy

Genesis 7:19,20"
19 "And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered."

20 "Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered."

This seems to be saying that the waters rose about 20 feet above the mountains...so, I'm not understanding the "region". Was there no life on earth other than that region alone? Was not all things created to that point destroyed in the flood? And, I remember there being something about the 'Nephilim' being one of the reasons for the flood.
Just my thoughts brother :)

Genesis 7:4
"For seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living thing I have made."
Gen. 7:4 tells me it was everyone but the 8 who were on the ark with Noah.

"But in reality, 10 years later, my friend may be fully reformed, walking with Christ, and in no danger of future punishments."

Isn't that for sure! Yes, it is awesome and I have a cousin who I had not seen for a good 25 years and, come to find out she was a born again Christian! Both sides of my family are Catholic. And, one of my Aunts (last one left) ... like my grandmother, was always so kind to us kids. I have no doubt where she is right now. And, like my mom and grandma, she always exhibited the fruits of the Spirit, amen.
 

theefaith

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1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)
 

Billy Evmur

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thanks for the info

I think some things are being confused, gentiles are grafted not Christians as scripture says
1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royalpriesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
New covenant chosen people!

Matt 21:43

43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

the new covenant chosen people who will bear fruit, Jn 15:1
There were TWO crowds around when the Lord said that, one huge crowd and a smaller crowd
The smaller crowd were the religious leaders, the lawyers etc, it was to them Jesus addressed these words. The other crowd heard Him gladly.