Hebrews 10:26-31

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BloodBought 1953

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And so we know John is talking about something specific in regard to sinning, not just simply sinning as sinner and saint do alike. There is something different with the sinning of the unsaved person and the sinning of the saved person. And it has nothing to do with the Christian getting away with his sinning while the unbeliever does not.

The unsaved person is in bondage to his sin and lives in it as a matter of practice, like a slave in service to his task master. His mind is set on the things of the flesh and how he can please it, and so he lives in the things of the flesh, on purpose even. He wages a war with righteousness. Righteousness is the alien, uncomfortable thing to him. Though he may succumb to it on occasion.

Meanwhile, the saved person is not in bondage to sin (whether he knows it or not) and does not live in it as a matter of practice. His mind is set on the things of the Spirit and how he can please God, and so he lives in the Spirit, on purpose even. He wages a war with the flesh and unrighteousness, not with righteousness as the unsaved person does. Unrighteousness is the alien, uncomfortable thing to him. Though he may succumb to it on occasion.

The relationship with sin you identify with indicates which person you are, born again or not born again. But the church will tell you to forget all that and just know you're saved because you say you believe in Christ. The church does not tell you that your relationship with sin and how you act is how you know if you are saved. And so many people are deceived into thinking they are saved and ready to meet Christ when in fact they are not. There are many teachers of this deception in the church today.


Man! You “ HAD” me until you got to that last paragraph.....lol.....my finger was poised to give you a “ like” ......then the Reality Of your Unbiblical Doctrine reared it’s ugly head.....maybe next time...
Lol....
 

Tong2020

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The Galatians stopped believing in Christ, solely, for jsutification. They received another gospel. The Corinthians also received another gospel. One that did not have a risen savior. And as we're discussing here, the Hebrew church was being tempted to go back to temple worship. So, yes, genuine Christians can in fact stop believing. These example are right in our Bibles.
Perhaps. But how did you know they were genuine Christians or were genuine believers? That is the question you seem to not want to face.

Tong
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Ferris Bueller

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So, a translation that is nearest to the original text and lesser translator thoughts is the better translation of a passage. The translator must allow the words of God to speak to the reader devoid of what he thinks.
I agree. In my reading of various translations I noticed how when they do this it can draw away from the intended meaning of the passage they've made editorial additions to.

But I'm okay with them doing it in 1 John 3 because John is definitely not saying all born again people are in a state of sinless perfection. I can see how that could be incredibly discouraging to a new Christian who has yet to discern the matter with the aid of the Spirit.
 

Ferris Bueller

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Man! You “ HAD” me until you got to that last paragraph.....lol.....my finger was poised to give you a “ like” ......then the Reality Of your Unbiblical Doctrine reared it’s ugly head.....maybe next time...
Lol....
BB, the harsh reality is you just don't know your Bible as well as you think you do. I showed you this but you still stubbornly reject it. You either don't see it, or you don't want to see it. You're not alone. Many people are like this in the church.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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Perhaps. But how did you know they were genuine Christians or were genuine believers? That is the question you seem to not want to face.

Tong
R1501
The letters tell us plainly that they are genuine believers, but who have slipped away in unbelief to another gospel. I proved the Hebrews were really born again in this very thread. I can show you in the case of the Galatians and Corinthians too.
 

Tong2020

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I agree. In my reading of various translations I noticed how when they do this it can draw away from the intended meaning of the passage they've made editorial additions to.

But I'm okay with them doing it in 1 John 3 because John is definitely not saying all born again people are in a state of sinless perfection. I can see how that could be incredibly discouraging to a new Christian who has yet to discern the matter with the aid of the Spirit.
That’s what I was saying. One is okay with them if what they’ve added jives with your interpretation. We must go to the better translation of the passage. That way, we allow the words of God to speak to us. Any addition should not be okay, regardless.

Tong
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ChristisGod

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The letters tell us plainly that they are genuine believers, but who have slipped away in unbelief to another gospel. I proved the Hebrews were really born again in this very thread. I can show you in the case of the Galatians and Corinthians too.
That is where we differ as the "Hebrews " warning passages if looked through the lens of judas we see they were never saved to begin with but benefitted from being in the company of real believers and experienced those benefits just as judas did for 3 years.

hope this helps !!!
 

Tong2020

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The letters tell us plainly that they are genuine believers, but who have slipped away in unbelief to another gospel. I proved the Hebrews were really born again in this very thread. I can show you in the case of the Galatians and Corinthians too.
So it seems you know their hearts? Well, in that case I don’t have anything more to say on that except that what truth I know is that only God knows the heart of men.

I know you know that even the man falls short of knowing himself. What more about knowing other man, even his heart?

Since you say you can show me, by all means.

Tong
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BloodBought 1953

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The Galatians stopped believing in Christ, solely, for justification. They received another gospel. The Corinthians also received another gospel. One that did not have a risen savior. And as we're discussing here, the Hebrew church was being tempted to go back to temple worship. So, yes, genuine Christians can in fact stop believing. These example are right in our Bibles.


I think that the lesson of Galatians is that these people were Saved Believers who did not really stop “ Believing the Gospel”—— they still KNEW that it was ESSENTIAL —- they had just been “ tricked ” into Believing that the Gospel was not “ADEQUATE” in and of itself......Additions had to be made.....Old Testament Requirements like Circumcision were the “ Add-Ons” Of Paul’s Day....Those That “ fell” for these “ False, Perverted” Gospels “ Fell from Grace” .....probably not Damned , but cursed to live out a Crippled Walk Of Faith.....lack of Joy....lack of Assurance....unanswered prayers and lost blessings were their lot....in other words, 90% of the Christian World.....
On the OTHER hand.....a distinction was made between those that “ follow” a false Gospel and those that “ TEACH” a false gospel of Additions . The former were destined to live out a “ beggarly” Christian life and the latter became “ ACCURSED” —- Damned Forever by God .....
If my “ Take “ is the correct one , some people need to realize the Jeopardy that they are unknowingly in. The False Additions to the Gospel Of Pure Grace Are no longer “ Circumcision” and the like—— they are “ Church Attendance.....Tithing.....Doing your best to keep the 10 Commandments or making sure that you acknowledge all of your sins , feel remorse about them ,and Promise to do a better job with them in the future before you die”
These are all great things to do , and Believers should strive to all that is “ right” .....but these things are NOT the Gospel That will Save you. The Gospel That will Save you if you simply “ BELIEVE” it is this —- “ Jesus died for your Sins and rose from the dead three days later” ( 1Cor15:1-4)
No mention of “ Repenting from Sins” in order to be Saved .Repentance can and Will play a HUGE Part in your Christian Walk AFTER you are Saved! Once you receive your New Heart with its New Desires AFTER having received the Gospel,you will find yourself “ Super- Sensitive” to Sin and it will become as “pleasurable” to you as sticking your hand in a fire.....
To “ Repent” in regard to Salvation simply means to “ change your mind”. If you did not BELIVE the Gospel and later , after “ God “opened your heart “ to it and decided to Believe it, you have undergone the Repentance That God demands for Salvation.....
Rest in the Gospel .... thereby getting the Holy Spirit inside you .....and let God change you from the inside out—- that “ inside of the cup” thingy.Allow God to “FINISH the Work that HE Started”.... that takes Faith.....you got it ? God bless ...

Special note....it appears that I kinda went off in a tangent there....lol.....to that, I say, “so what”..... I got some good stuff out there.....I bet somebody needed to hear that stuff...
Lol....
 
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BloodBought 1953

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BB, the harsh reality is you just don't know your Bible as well as you think you do. I showed you this but you still stubbornly reject it. You either don't see it, or you don't want to see it. You're not alone. Many people are like this in the church.


You think that “ you” know the Bible....

I think that “ I” know the Bible.....

All either one of us can do in the end is both of us put Forth our best understandings and arguments in regard to Scripture and let the Reader decide....that’s what we do.....it's all we “ can” do....

Some day, and soon I hope, you will finally see that BB is correct about everything that he thinks and says and that YOU have been a complete and utter idiot all along!
That last part there? That was just a little joke.....lol.....
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Heb 10:26, For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins
Was going to suggest Romans 7 but it has already been posted. There is much “to do” “to will” in the passage. Heb 10:26, For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.
Reminds me of “therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”

Question: then how it is so rampant today that we can see every one else’s sin but never our own sins? Not trying to be critical but asking because of every day, how can we claim to know Him while at the same time be so blind to any knowledge of our own sin while claiming instead “Thank God I am not like them”?

“But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.”
How many has not “respect to persons”?

A question regarding Romans 7:

for we know the law is spiritual...

“For I rejoice with the Law of God in the inner man. But I see a different law in the members of my body waging war against the Law of my mind making me a prisoner of the law of sin.”

“a different law” raging war against the Law of God ...what is “a different law”? “a different law” against the Law of God?
 

justbyfaith

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Have you in read my post well enough? I wonder how you did not see that I was talking about Paul.

What does it matter who you were talking about? my point is that there is an example of someone who received mercy because they sought it out (see also Matthew 7:7-8).

You said elsewhere that “the law is not done away with because in the New Covenant, the law is written on the hearts and in the minds of New Covenant believers.”

I don't think that I used those exact words.

So my question, what laws were written in your mind and heart?

The law of love. The law that says it is a sin to walk after the flesh and righteousness to walk after the Spirit.

And as such you conclude that the old covenant laws were not done away with when the old was replaced with the new.

The old covenant laws were done away with (Romans 6:14, Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19, Romans 7:6) as concerning condemnation;

However, as believers under the new covenant, the law is written on our hearts and in our minds (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5).

I could not agree with your take on that.

Why not? It is a biblical take on things.

I’d go with what scripture said that the old covenant, and that would necessarily include all that it contains and goes with, were replaced by a new covenant.

The law is written on the heart and in the mind in the new covenant (Hebrews 8:8-10, etc.)

Now, if they were not done away with and were passed over to the new covenant, so that the law remains the same in the new as were in the old covenant, what would you say is the purpose of the law?

The purpose of the law is two-fold:

1) It is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24, Romans 3:20, Psalms 19:7 (kjv));

2) It is a set of wisdom principles to live by for the believer in Christ (James 1:25)...no longer a condemning taskmaster as it was before you came to faith in Christ.

But it must be realized, which is my point in that part of my post you quoted, that the old covenant, which of necessity inclusive of all that it contains, was replaced by the new covenant.

However, the law is not replaced by the new covenant; for the law is included in the new covenant (Hebrews 8:8-10, etc.)

These are all great things to do , and Believers should strive to all that is “ right” .....but these things are NOT the Gospel That will Save you. The Gospel That will Save you if you simply “ BELIEVE” it is this —- “ Jesus died for your Sins and rose from the dead three days later” ( 1Cor15:1-4)
No mention of “ Repenting from Sins” in order to be Saved .

Surely, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 is the whole Bible and we can only find the gospel within the frame of what it says within those verses alone!

:rolleyes:

Repentance can and Will play a HUGE Part in your Christian Walk AFTER you are Saved! Once you receive your New Heart with its New Desires AFTER having received the Gospel,you will find yourself “ Super- Sensitive” to Sin and it will become as “pleasurable” to you as sticking your hand in a fire.....

You are not going to receive a new heart apart from making a 180-degree turn from the direction of sin unto the direction of holiness.

To “ Repent” in regard to Salvation simply means to “ change your mind”.

"Repent" means to make a 180-degree turn away from sin towards the direction of holiness, practically in your life.

...and let God change you from the inside out—-

Amen! Finally we agree on something!
 

justbyfaith

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Was going to suggest Romans 7 but it has already been posted.

Romans 7 is Paul using the literary tactic of IDENTIFICATION to reach the carnally-minded in his audience (see 1 Corinthians 9:22).

He identifies himself as carnal in order to define carnality in order to reach the carnally-minded.

That he is not carnal himself in all reality is evident by the fact that he is here penning the holy scriptures.

2Pe 1:21, For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
 

marks

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Persuaded is probably a better word for it. Sometimes weakness persuades me to cave into the temptation to sin. Sometimes ignorance. Sometimes it's unpreparedness.
Personally I think we sin when we are deceived into it, thinking that those desires are our own. The deceptive lusts.

I think having that weakness inside means we've already capitulated to our flesh. The spirit in the inner man is strengthened with the strength of Christ. Chris is unto us wisdom.

If I feel weak against sin, this is NOT the Spirit of Christ within me. Therefore it is remnent echos of the old man. Not even some active force that has any power against us, no, the only power the old man has is the power to deceive us and to attack our faith. In faith we overcome.

So the matter is all about faith.

The new man trusts God.

If you are born again, and you are not trusting God, that distrust is is not from the new creation spirit child of God. It is a work of the flesh. It is a remnent of who we used to be.

God looks inside us and sees something we don't, the real person. The child of God is a precious and joyful thing to our Father! He rejoices in having saved us, in having regenerated us, in having a family of righteous children, who in their new creation are true reflections of Him.

Now we need to believe it's true what He did for us. We live according to what we believe, and if we believe God is sifting and weighing our sins, and may reject us if we get too bad, we will act one way, typically trying to improve ourselves so God will still like us.

But when we understand that we are forgiven, redeemed, eternally loved, and that we have been made righteous, we are accepted, not in what we think or say or do, but in Christ.

Salvation is not an ongoing act given based on an ongoing faith, that is, you remain saved IF YOU remain trusting. Salvation is an act done by God on your behalf, declaring you righteous, calling into being those things which are not, He believed God, and God counted his believe as righteousness.

To you, it's a moment of putting your true trust in Jesus. To God, it's an eternally standing justification of the sinner, who is now in Christ washed and new.

Don't let the voice of condemnation rule in your mind! Trust in Jesus to save you, He loves you!

Much love!
 

VictoryinJesus

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Romans 7 is Paul using the literary tactic of IDENTIFICATION to reach the carnally-minded in his audience (see 1 Corinthians 9:22).

He identifies himself as carnal in order to define carnality in order to reach the carnally-minded.

That he is not carnal himself in all reality is evident by the fact that he is here penning the holy scriptures.

2Pe 1:21, For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
“He identifies himself as carnal in order to define carnality in order to reach the carnally-minded.” Good point...that they may be made strong...then Paul is willing to be weak for their strengthening?
When we are weak, you are strong?
Maybe I misunderstand 2 Corinthians 13:5-9 but once again “I wish you would know we are not reprobates” “I trust (in the Lord) that you shall know that we are not reprobates.”

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? [6] But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates. [7] Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as (enemies)reprobates. [8] For we can do nothing (have no power)against the truth, but (have been given power) [only]for the truth. John 15:5 [9] For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish(to will), even your perfection.

for we are glad, when we are weak, and you are strong ....even though we may appear as enemies (unapproved) ...and this also we wish(to will), even your perfection (to be made complete, an equipping, a preparing). Why was Paul made to appear weak (although he said I trust you shall know we are not enemies) if not for the Sake of: we will gladly be made to appear reprobates that you may be made strong (perfect, complete) 2 Corinthians 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Romans 1:11-12 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established; [12] That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.

Examine yourselves: love your enemies.
For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong(Mighty in this one command to love): and this also we wish(to will), even your perfection.
Isaiah 40:29 He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.
 
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marks

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The one born of God does not sin as a matter of lifestyle and habit.
That's not actually what the Bible itself says right there. I know it's often taught that way, but that's not the words of Scripture, which says, that which is born of God does not do sin.

"The one remaining in Him is not sinning", John wrote.

upload_2021-1-22_8-43-3.png
Here, it's very clear. If you are born of God, you are not sinning. Period.

How do you account for this? What does this mean to you?

All that which is not of faith is sin. Anything you do that does not come as a product of our faith in Christ comes from our flesh. Because that which is born of God does not sin.

Much love!
 

marks

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The person who 'lives like this' is the person who is condemned as an unbeliever in their lifestyle of fornications, and thefts, and lies, etc.
Condemned by who?

You judge a man by your perceptions of their behavior, while Jesus looks and sees who are His children and who are not by virtue of justification as a gift received by our faith.

Who is it who condemns? Jesus intercedes for us, and He is humanity's judge.

Much love!
 
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marks

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I agree.

To the Christian, sin is a thing of the past and a defeated enemy and so is death. Christ took care of that for him.

While the Christian have the power to overcome sin, it is not for anything else but to not sin when temptation comes. It is not like he has to look for sins to conquer. He had been set free from sin. Christ took care of that for him. So, he must have nothing to do with sin anymore.

Sin dwelled in the flesh since the fall of Adam and it will be there until our flesh turns to dust and is no more. We can’t do much about that. But Christ will take care of that as well at the resurrection. Until then, our mind must be on the Spirit of God who dwells in us and not on sin that dwells in our flesh.

So, the Christian now has everything to do with righteousness. That his concern, eyes, mind, and heart now is on doing the good works God had prepared in advance for him to do.

Look into what is in the new covenant and you will find that what I said could be found there among a lot lot more. Here’s one. In the old, it is much much about what the covenant people should do ~ works of man. Man failed. In the new, it is much much about what God will do ~ works of God. God will not fail. I know you know what that means.

Tong
R1488
Amen!!

Well said!

Much love!
 

marks

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Somehow, I think, that goes back to the very beginning, the matter of having the knowledge of good and evil and the desires of the flesh.

Tong
R1489

I think this can be describes as either living according to the knowledge of good and evil, or living according to eternal life, the two trees in the middle of the garden.

Much love!
 

Behold

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the mature in the faith commits the less. Is there such a thing as intentional sins to the Christians? This is the harder question I think.

Tong
R1486

Most sin that a Christian commits, is intentional.
How do you know? Because the Holy Spirit has quickened, has made sensitive your conscience, upon the day you were born again.
In fact, if your sin consciousness is not highly elevated, since the moment you were born again, then you might want to re-evaluate your spiritual condition, Saint.

Unbelievers, dont see SIN......as sin, in general...They see it as a "good time" "let's party"...>"can i have another drink"... "last night i fornicated again"...ect.

Believers, are sensitive to sinning, and that is why you feel that strong need to confess it and try to get that clean feeling again.

And the escape from that, is to come into the right mind concerning who you are "in Christ".