Hebrews 10:26-31

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Behold

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After God reckons the ungodly to be righteous, who or what can take that away? As if you could go against God!
His counsel will stand, and He justifies the ungodly.
Much love!

To be justified by faith, means that God has redeemed you with BLood, and that blood is HIS, and that redemption is eternal.
It is in fact : Eternal Life.
Eternal Life, is not temporary, nor is it earned or kept.
 

marks

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To be justified by faith, means that God has redeemed you with BLood, and that blood is HIS, and that redemption is eternal.
It is in fact : Eternal Life.
Eternal Life, is not temporary, nor is it earned or kept.
Some people seem to have a very low view of this. But when the Creator declares that He's rescued you for Himself? God bought us with His OWN blood! And some people find His claim of ownership over us as WEAK.

I don't! And I know you don't either!

Much love!
 

Behold

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Rom 11:26, And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27, For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.



:)

Don't ever again say im against the Jew.
Also..
All Israel shall be saved, but not in the "time of the Gentiles".

You need a check up from the neck up, and that is a fact.
Your insults and your horrible theology, are offensive to a "christian forum".
 
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Tong2020

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What does it matter who you were talking about? my point is that there is an example of someone who received mercy because they sought it out (see also Matthew 7:7-8).
Then why’d you asked?
Who? The publican in the parable of Luke 18:9-14? I think not.

For the publican was at the altar, seeking the Lord.
I just answered your question.

I don't think that I used those exact words.
Well you did. Do you want to change anything there?

The law of love. The law that says it is a sin to walk after the flesh and righteousness to walk after the Spirit.
So that is what is written in your mind and heart, the law of love, which then means that is also the law in the old covenant?

I am pretty sure you know why the old
Covenant law (ten commandments and all the other commandments and precepts) were at all given to Israel, its purpose/s, its ministry. And those does not add up to being the law of love that you say here.

The old covenant laws were done away with (Romans 6:14, Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19, Romans 7:6) as concerning condemnation;

However, as believers under the new covenant, the law is written on our hearts and in our minds (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5).
So, now it’s only a part of the covenant law that were done away with? That is not what could be understood when it says the old is by a new one, with the new being not according the old (Heb.8:7-9).

I am quite sure you will agree that the laws on sacrifices for sins were done away with. Are these laws as concerning condemnation? No, right? For they are laws for the atonement and forgiveness of sins. So that is a problem even with your take there that only part (as concerning condemnation) of the OT law was done away with.

Why not? It is a biblical take on things.
Because when I examine scriptures, I see it as flawed.

Tong2020 said:
Now, if they were not done away with and were passed over to the new covenant, so that the law remains the same in the new as were in the old covenant, what would you say is the purpose of the law?
The purpose of the law is two-fold:

1) It is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24, Romans 3:20, Psalms 19:7 (kjv));

2) It is a set of wisdom principles to live by for the believer in Christ (James 1:25)...no longer a condemning taskmaster as it was before you came to faith in Christ.
So that means while you contend that the OT law was not done away with but was written in the minds and hearts of the new covenant people, it’s former purpose was done away with in the new covenant, no longer a condemning task master.

Things are getting really complicated now as much as they are getting far away from the testimony of scriptures.

Now, you say the purpose of the law is a school master to lead men to Christ, how do you, with the law written in your kind and heart lead men to Christ like it was supposed to in the OT?

Tong
R1504
 

Behold

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Having faith is not a boast of the flesh.....

"Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith." Romans 3:27

See, there is no boast in having faith as you are claiming. Faith is directly opposed to and is not included in the boast of doing something to earn justification. But you are saying works and having faith are the same thing. And so you wrongly say you do not have to have faith to justified.

I said you have faith in faith.
That's different the boasting about faith.

See, many believers have this as their idea of Faith..

If i keep my faith, i dont go to hell.
So, that is having faith that faith will keep you out of hell.
That is not the same thing as having faith that GOD will keep you saved.
 

Behold

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The word must remain in you for you to remain in Christ.1 John 2:24-26
24 ...see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is what he promised us—eternal life.
26I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray.
But you are saying, "if what you heard from the beginning doesn't remain in you, you will still remain in the Son and in the Father".

Yes, and if you read vs 25, you get the context of all that..
Its this..

Jesus is eternal life. and if we have HIM< we have eternal life, as HE is Eternal life.
And so, to have Him, is to have Him IN YOU>...... and He always remains in you, and you always remain "in Christ", if you are born again.
Being born again, is to have Jesus in you, and to have Jesus in you, is impossible to change.
 

Behold

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So we can easily see from these that having faith is not the same as doing works as @Behold is insisting.

Ive not said anything about you doing works.
Why the dishonesty?

I told you that you are counting on keeping your faith, to get you into heaven.
You trust in FAITH.
And that is to have "faith in faith", vs, having Faith in God, to get you into heaven.
Jesus told you to have "faith in God".....and that means you trust GOD to get you into heaven.
You are trusting in Faith to get you into heaven, and that is why you will teach that to lose faith, is to lose salvation = as faith is your savior that you are afraid to lose...., as in your theology, to lose faith, is to lose salvation.
 

justbyfaith

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Well you did.

Use the quote feature.

So that is what is written in your mind and heart, the law of love, which then means that is also the law in the old covenant?

The law in the old covenant is the specifics of God's love.

So, now it’s only a part of the covenant law that were done away with?

The whole of the law was done away with as concerning condemnation (Romans 6:14, Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19, Romans 7:6); however, it is written on the hearts and minds of new covenant believers (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5).
 
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marks

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Most sin that a Christian commits, is intentional.
How do you know? Because the Holy Spirit has quickened, has made sensitive your conscience, upon the day you were born again.
In fact, if your sin consciousness is not highly elevated, since the moment you were born again, then you might want to re-evaluate your spiritual condition, Saint.

Unbelievers, dont see SIN......as sin, in general...They see it as a "good time" "let's party"...>"can i have another drink"... "last night i fornicated again"...ect.

Believers, are sensitive to sinning, and that is why you feel that strong need to confess it and try to get that clean feeling again.

And the escape from that, is to come into the right mind concerning who you are "in Christ".

If we can get ahold of that, we can stop constantly trying to do what we cannot according to Scripture do - Judge. Not others, and not ourselves.

Like Paul, whether or not I see sin in myself doesn't really mean anything, because there may be sin I don't see. Jesus is the only qualified judge.

To think that we can parse God's gift of forgiveness according to our opinions and perceptions of ourselves and others is the highest form of hubris. For man to think he knows better than God! As if!!

Much love!
Much love!
 

Ferris Bueller

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You point to the Galatians and Corinthians as being genuine believers and lost their faith. And that is coming from a conclusion or take that they were genuine believers. How did you know they were genuine believers?
Galatians 3:2-3
Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?3Are you so foolish? After starting in the Spirit, are you now finishing in the flesh?

1 Corinthians 15:1
1Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand.
 

Ferris Bueller

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So, if any one who calls himself a Christian or a brethren, but later reject Christ, is not a genuine Christian and brethren.
That's fine if anyone wants to hold that doctrinal position. It doesn't matter. What matters is that we are believing. And that we will not be saved when Jesus comes back if we should find ourselves in unbelief one day. That's what matters.
 
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justbyfaith

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Ive not said anything about you doing works.
Why the dishonesty?

I told you that you are counting on keeping your faith, to get you into heaven.
You trust in FAITH.
And that is to have "faith in faith", vs, having Faith in God, to get you into heaven.
Jesus told you to have "faith in God".....and that means you trust GOD to get you into heaven.
You are trusting in Faith to get you into heaven, and that is why you will teach that to lose faith, is to lose salvation = as faith is your savior that you are afraid to lose...., as in your theology, to lose faith, is to lose salvation.

Rom 5:1, Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2, By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Eph 2:8, For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9, Not of works, lest any man should boast.

These are passages out of Christianity 101. They teach that we are saved because of faith.

It does follow that if someone doesn't have faith, they are not saved.

This person here:

Luk 8:13, They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

does not continue to have salvation after having fallen away.

And to teach otherwise is to teach heresy.
 

Tong2020

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Galatians 3:2-3
Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?3Are you so foolish? After starting in the Spirit, are you now finishing in the flesh?

1 Corinthians 15:1
1Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand.
Those questions of Paul in Gal. 3:2-3 to them does not make of them to be genuine believers sir. A pastor asking those to the local church, would that mean they are genuine believers? Nope.

The same with 1 Cor.15:1, not that Paul call them brothers and sisters make of them genuine believers. And not that they were said to have received the gospel, necessarily mean they are genuine believers sir.

The point remains, no one knows the heart of man except God, one like you could be certain that another is a genuine believer or not.

Tong
R1505
 
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justbyfaith

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The point remains, no one knows the heart of man except God,

There is a spiritual gift called "discerning of spirits" by which the person can discern whether someone in question is saved or unsaved.

People who have this spiritual gift are not to point the finger in judgment but to pray for the unsaved that they might be saved and to minister to them the gospel of Jesus in such a manner that the unsaved will become born again.
 

Tong2020

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That's fine if anyone wants to hold that doctrinal position. It doesn't matter. What matters is that we are believing. And that we will not be saved when Jesus comes back if we should find ourselves in unbelief one day. That's what matters.
Well, it is not whether it matters or not to you . It’s a matter of truth. And there isn’t a time that truth does not matter sir.

And truth is not refuted, not ever.

And the truth is as Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.” John 8:31
The truth sets a man free.

Tong
R1506
 

justbyfaith

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Well, it is not whether it matters or not to you . It’s a matter of truth. And there isn’t a time that truth does not matter sir.

And truth is not refuted, not ever.

And the truth is as Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.” John 8:31
The truth sets a man free.

Tong
R1506
However, if you believe that you are saved because you were saved; but in all reality are not saved because you stopped abiding in His goodness (Romans 11:20-22), your only way back is to acknowledge that you are not saved and to turn to Jesus Christ for salvation. But if you think you are saved because of OSAS doctrine, you won't do that; you will think that you are safe and secure in the midst of your sinful lifestyle.
 

Tong2020

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Use the quote feature.
Getting old or perhaps just lazy? I don’t know why you seem to not agree with what that quote says. It’s okay to change your mind. That’s called repentance, if it’s not a typo. Here let me give you a hand.

However, it should be clear that the law is not done away with; because in the New Covenant, the law is written on the hearts and in the minds of New Covenant believers.

The law in the old covenant is the specifics of God's love.
Again, I suggest that you go back to scriptures as scriptures tells us why the old covenant law were given to Israel, it’s purpose, it’s ministry. Meditate on those and see if it is as you say.

Does love bring wrath? Is a law, that brings death, of love? Think about it sir.

Tong
R1507
 

Tong2020

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There is a spiritual gift called "discerning of spirits" by which the person can discern whether someone in question is saved or unsaved.

People who have this spiritual gift are not to point the finger in judgment but to pray for the unsaved that they might be saved and to minister to them the gospel of Jesus in such a manner that the unsaved will become born again.
Is there? Where is that gift by which a person can say whether one who calls himself a believer and a brethren in Christ is genuine or not?

Seems like you did hear what Jesus said.

Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.” John 8:31

What do you think that makes of those who profess to believe, get baptized, and later found to abandon all that?

Tong
R1508
 

justbyfaith

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Getting old or perhaps just lazy? I don’t know why you seem to not agree with what that quote says. It’s okay to change your mind. That’s called repentance, if it’s not a typo. Here let me give you a hand.

However, it should be clear that the law is not done away with; because in the New Covenant, the law is written on the hearts and in the minds of New Covenant believers.

That was in my response to @Grailhunter. Thank you for enabling us to go back to the original post to see what its context was.

Again, I suggest that you go back to scriptures as scriptures tells us why the old covenant law were given to Israel, it’s purpose, it’s ministry. Meditate on those and see if it is as you say.

Does love bring wrath? Is a law, that brings death, of love? Think about it sir.

This is simply an argument that is easily demolished by the weapons of our warfare which are not carnal but mighty in God for the pulling down of strongholds.


Heb 8:8, For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9, Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10, For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Heb 10:16, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Rom 8:7, Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Rom 8:4, That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
 
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justbyfaith

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Is there? Where is that gift by which a person can say whether one who calls himself a believer and a brethren in Christ is genuine or not?
I have it.

It is based in the following scripture.

1Jo 4:6, We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

I can discern whether someone is saved or not by the way that they react to what I preach to them.
 
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