Latter Rain

marks · Jan 22, 2021

David H. said:
Before Pentecost, when Christ breathed on the disciples and they received the Holy Ghost, they were Born again under the new covenant. The New covenant having been ratified by the death and resurrection of the Testator. (Hebrews 9:16) When the Holy Ghost came on them t Pentecost this was their ordination as Elders, giving them the gifts needed to lead the church.

You could not be a born again believer until after the death of Christ on the cross, which is why we had the baptism of John, this Baptism was no longer in effect after the death burial and resurrection of Christ as the new covenant by his Blood was in effect then. We can see this also play out in Acts with the people who had received the Baptism of John when they became born again and received the Holy Ghost. See Acts of the Apostles18:25, and Acts of the Apostles 19:1-7...

Yes, I think so!

One thing I would say a little differently, is that while the disciples themselves were reborn in that inner room, that they were baptized into the body of Christ on Pentecost, that is, the body of Christ began, and, including providing those gifts for that body to grow and be healthy.

Much love!

David H. · Jan 22, 2021

I am writing a post in response to this, where i mention this conversation. please refer to that for the response should be done within the next 30 or so minutes.

David H. · Jan 22, 2021

marks said:
Yes, I think so!

One thing I would say a little differently, is that while the disciples themselves were reborn in that inner room, that they were baptized into the body of Christ on Pentecost, that is, the body of Christ began, and, including providing those gifts for that body to grow and be healthy.

Much love!

I Don't know if my post answered this specifically for you, But I would agree in a way with your statement the gifts of the Spirit given at Pentecost enabled them to teach the body, to lay the foundation for the faith to the Body. See 1 Corinthians 3:10-15

Hidden In Him · Jan 22, 2021

Gideons300 said:
Keith Green 'Asleep in the Light'

No one ever wrote like Keith Green. Before or since.

God bless, Gids.

marks · Jan 22, 2021

David H. said:
I Don't know if my post answered this specifically for you, But I would agree in a way with your statement the gifts of the Spirit given at Pentecost enabled them to teach the body, to lay the foundation for the faith to the Body. See 1 Corinthians 3:10-15

So this has a lot to do with how I see things. I think that these gifts which were given, the spiritual gifts and the gifts of people are still being given.

I think that the power over sin, and the power to live unto God is still being given. I think the power to do all that is in God's will for our lives is being given to us right now.

We have this question, Why don't we see signs and wonders now? And there are a number of ways to answer it.

In the Latter Rain idea, the answer seems to be that the Holy Spirit Who was poured out then is somehow different than we receive now, less power, and we're all waiting for it to happen again.

We are waiting for something outside of us to come and make the church more like what it's supposed to be. That is, make each of us who collectively form the body of Christ more like what we should be. The church is fixed by fixing us, and we are fixed by giving us more power from the Holy Spirit.

You've mentioned that we will all be elders and overseers to the church, that this is what will happen.

Paul wrote that Jesus gave gifts, apostles and prophets, evangelists, shepherd/teachers. Doesn't Jesus do this today? I think He does. Until we all reach unity. Is Jesus holding back His Spirit from making that real in our lives? I don't think so. I think the Holy Spirit is working in every single one of God's children, to make their lives all they could and should be.

This teaching that we no longer receive the power of the Holy Spirit . . . not the same, no, do you see how this can impact our faith towards daily living?

What if the reason that we aren't seeing signs and wonders is that God Isn't Doing signs and wonders?

What If His people really are completely immersed into God's Holy Spirit, Who provides for us all we need, everything, exactly as God promises us?

Much love!

David H. · Jan 22, 2021

marks said:
So this has a lot to do with how I see things. I think that these gifts which were given, the spiritual gifts and the gifts of people are still being given.

I think that the power over sin, and the power to live unto God is still being given. I think the power to do all that is in God's will for our lives is being given to us right now.

We have this question, Why don't we see signs and wonders now? And there are a number of ways to answer it.

In the Latter Rain idea, the answer seems to be that the Holy Spirit Who was poured out then is somehow different than we receive now, less power, and we're all waiting for it to happen again.

We are waiting for something outside of us to come and make the church more like what it's supposed to be. That is, make each of us who collectively form the body of Christ more like what we should be. The church is fixed by fixing us, and we are fixed by giving us more power from the Holy Spirit.

You've mentioned that we will all be elders and overseers to the church, that this is what will happen.

Paul wrote that Jesus gave gifts, apostles and prophets, evangelists, shepherd/teachers. Doesn't Jesus do this today? I think He does. Until we all reach unity. Is Jesus holding back His Spirit from making that real in our lives? I don't think so. I think the Holy Spirit is working in every single one of God's children, to make their lives all they could and should be.

This teaching that we no longer receive the power of the Holy Spirit . . . not the same, no, do you see how this can impact our faith towards daily living?

What if the reason that we aren't seeing signs and wonders is that God Isn't Doing signs and wonders?

What If His people really are completely immersed into God's Holy Spirit, Who provides for us all we need, everything, exactly as God promises us?

Much love!

The Holy Spirit Just gave me a Word to respond to this, I am not sure I can explain this myself yet. As i Read your response The writing was "Facetted" As in the facets of a precious stone. Perhaps what He is trying to say is each of us are a facet of his precious stone that he has to work to fit into the whole that makes us all His precious gem.... Does this make sense? That is the word the Holy Spirit just gave me, we are all facetted.

marks · Jan 22, 2021

David H. said:
I Don't know if my post answered this specifically for you, But I would agree in a way with your statement the gifts of the Spirit given at Pentecost enabled them to teach the body, to lay the foundation for the faith to the Body. See 1 Corinthians 3:10-15

And the gift of discerning of spirits? I think this is one you believe is being withheld from the body, is that right? That at the appointed time, God will give this gift in earnest, and we can begin to get on with the business of being a fruitful church?

But in the meantime, God leaves us divided, unable to have unity in Christ's body.

I believe God gives His gifts at all times according to His will, and that His work goes on now in those who believe.

Much love!

David H. · Jan 22, 2021

marks said:
And the gift of discerning of spirits? I think this is one you believe is being withheld from the body, is that right? That at the appointed time, God will give this gift in earnest, and we can begin to get on with the business of being a fruitful church?

But in the meantime, God leaves us divided, unable to have unity in Christ's body.

I believe God gives His gifts at all times according to His will, and that His work goes on now in those who believe.

Much love!

See my response a moment ago.

BarneyFife · Jan 22, 2021

marks said:
These were times when the Holy Spirit would come upon someone for some specific purpose.

Absolutely agreed. And the specific purpose of the latter rain will be to endure the crescendo of good and evil at the end of time.

marks said:
But no one before that Pentecost was baptized in the Holy Spirit. Immersed into Christ. United to God by the Spirit of Christ.

I don't understand this. It seems like There's a contradiction in your terms here. So God held back from His Children before Pentecost?

marks said:
Do we not receive that same Holy Spirit?

As much as we truly want, yes, absolutely.

BarneyFife · Jan 22, 2021

David H. said:
You could not be a born again believer until after the death of Christ on the cross

John 3
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 9Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

BarneyFife · Jan 22, 2021

David H. said:
The Holy Spirit Just gave me a Word to respond to this, I am not sure I can explain this myself yet. As i Read your response The writing was "Facetted" As in the facets of a precious stone. Perhaps what He is trying to say is each of us are a facet of his precious stone that he has to work to fit into the whole that makes us all His precious gem.... Does this make sense? That is the word the Holy Spirit just gave me, we are all facetted.

In what manner did this word from the Holy Spirit manifest itself?

David H. · Jan 22, 2021

He Put the word on My heart and the response written by @marks seemed to be facetted.... I Can't explain that, but it was visual...?

Malachi 3:16-18 also came to mind. KJV actually has the word Jewel in verse 17, which is the version I use primarily.

marks · Jan 22, 2021

David H. said:
The Holy Spirit Just gave me a Word to respond to this, I am not sure I can explain this myself yet. As i Read your response The writing was "Facetted" As in the facets of a precious stone. Perhaps what He is trying to say is each of us are a facet of his precious stone that he has to work to fit into the whole that makes us all His precious gem.... Does this make sense? That is the word the Holy Spirit just gave me, we are all facetted.

Yes, that makes great sense!

1 Peter 4:10-11
10) As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
11) If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

"Many Faceted" is good here. "The varied grace of God", both varied and grace are singular, on thing, God's grace, but varied, so faceted. God's grace has many aspects, or many sides, Peter goes on to explain.

We've all received charitos from God, so we are to distribute those charitos to others, as "ideal administrators" of the many-faceted grace of God.

His grace has many sides to it, and the one who speaks, let him speak God's Own Word. The one serving, with God's given ability, not anything that we do.

God's manifold grace, revealed as we speak HIS Word, as we perform with HIS ability, in this way HE is glorified.

When we remember that we are responsible to do our part in being "ideal administrators" of the grace given to us, so others can receive of that grace - think of Paul saying how they were partakers of his grace, and, talking in another place of the koinonia of serving together.

This is why I seek for unity with every believer even though we disagree in some areas. If we are both born again, we have unity in Christ, having nothing to do with our doctrine. Attaining to this unity will allow us to sort out all the doctrines.

I don't foresee believers ever reaching a true unity of heart by coming to agreement on the doctrines of baptism, or tongues, or whatever it may be. I foresee believers reaching true unity in recognizing that Christ in you and Christ in me is a fact of life - if indeed it is - and that this is the one relevant fact concerning our relationship.

We are brothers in Christ.

And the same Spirit that makes us brothers also fills us with love for each other, only, be it to you according to your faith. If you don't believe it's true, you don't live that way.

But if you accept the reality, then you do.

Much love!

marks · Jan 22, 2021

David H. said:
See my response a moment ago.

I'm not sure how you mean for that to relate, I'm sorry!

Much love!

David H. · Jan 22, 2021

marks said:
Yes, that makes great sense!

1 Peter 4:10-11
10) As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
11) If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

"Many Faceted" is good here. "The varied grace of God", both varied and grace are singular, on thing, God's grace, but varied, so faceted. God's grace has many aspects, or many sides, Peter goes on to explain.

We've all received charitos from God, so we are to distribute those charitos to others, as "ideal administrators" of the many-faceted grace of God.

His grace has many sides to it, and the one who speaks, let him speak God's Own Word. The one serving, with God's given ability, not anything that we do.

God's manifold grace, revealed as we speak HIS Word, as we perform with HIS ability, in this way HE is glorified.

When we remember that we are responsible to do our part in being "ideal administrators" of the grace given to us, so others can receive of that grace - think of Paul saying how they were partakers of his grace, and, talking in another place of the koinonia of serving together.

This is why I seek for unity with every believer even though we disagree in some areas. If we are both born again, we have unity in Christ, having nothing to do with our doctrine. Attaining to this unity will allow us to sort out all the doctrines.

I don't foresee believers ever reaching a true unity of heart by coming to agreement on the doctrines of baptism, or tongues, or whatever it may be. I foresee believers reaching true unity in recognizing that Christ in you and Christ in me is a fact of life - if indeed it is - and that this is the one relevant fact concerning our relationship.

We are brothers in Christ.

And the same Spirit that makes us brothers also fills us with love for each other, only, be it to you according to your faith. If you don't believe it's true, you don't live that way.

But if you accept the reality, then you do.

Much love!

The Light reflects off of each facet in a different way, which makes that Jewel Unique yet one. Each facet has to be polished, so that they may reflect the light that shines on them. Since we are sharing Hymns, here is one that speaks of this as well.

Holy Spirit Living Breath of God (Official Lyric Video) - Keith & Kristyn Getty - YouTube

Gideons300 · Jan 22, 2021

Hidden In Him said:
No one ever wrote like Keith Green. Before or since.

God bless, Gids.

Thanks, HIH. He played a huge role in my early Christian walk. I cried like a baby the day he died in the plane crash. Here is another one of my favorites.

marks · Jan 22, 2021

BarnyFife said:
Absolutely agreed. And the specific purpose of the latter rain will be to endure the crescendo of good and evil at the end of time.

For myself, I see this in God's promise to us now . . .

1 Corinthians 10:13
No temptation has taken you except what is human; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted above what you are able. But with the temptation, He will also make the way out, so that you may be able to bear it.

That's temptation/testing, the word means both. No matter what the tempting/testing, God will provide the way to endure.

2 Corinthians 4
8) in every way being troubled, not being hemmed in; being perplexed, but not utterly at a loss;
9) being persecuted, but not being forsaken; being thrown down, but not having been destroyed;
10) always bearing about the dying of the Lord Jesus in the body, that also the life of Jesus may be revealed in our body.

No matter the circumstance, no matter how widespread the persecution, no matter how evil the adversary, we have His promise. This is happening so that the life of Jesus may be revealed in our body. Our lives show Jesus to the world. During the current time.

And of course he goes on . . .

2 Corinthians 4
16) Because of this, we do not faint, but if indeed our outward man is being decayed, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day.
17) For the lightness of our present affliction works out for us an eternal weight of glory, surpassing moment by surpassing moment;
18) we not considering the things seen, but the things not being seen; for the things being seen are not lasting, but the things not being seen are everlasting.

We look for God's power to serve according to His desire, and God's power to deliver us through our afflictions, now. And I believe the Holy Spirit in me, the Spirit of Christ, I can - now - do all things through Christ Who gives me strength, literally, His strength.

Much love!

marks · Jan 22, 2021

David H. said:
The Light reflects off of each facet in a different way, which makes that Jewel Unique yet one. Each facet has to be polished, so that they may reflect the light that shines on them. Since we are sharing Hymns, here is one that speaks of this as well.

Holy Spirit Living Breath of God (Official Lyric Video) - Keith & Kristyn Getty - YouTube

I love that line, "May Your joy be seen in all I do" God's joy! Imagine that!

marks · Jan 22, 2021

Gideons300 said:
Thanks, HIH. He played a huge role in my early Christian walk. I cried like a baby the day he died in the plane crash. Here is another one of my favorites.

And one of mine . . .

I think this was prophecy.

Much love!

marks · Jan 22, 2021

BarnyFife said:
I don't understand this. It seems like There's a contradiction in your terms here. So God held back from His Children before Pentecost?

A covenant based on better promises.

A covenant with power to deliver from the power of sin.

Before Jesus' resurrection, there was only One 'begotten' Son of God. Adam was called a son of God, as were the angels, but they were creations, and we are begotten children. Jesus is of course more than the sons we are, as He is the "monogenesis", of a single generation, He is unique.

But then it is written, as He is, so are we in this world. We are begotten children of God, living in bodies of flesh.

Much love!

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