Should the church and state be separate or together?

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Is it better for Church and state to be separate or together?


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Cristo Rei

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The separation of church and state started happing in the 19th century...
The term was first coined by Thomas Jefferson though the concept had been around for about 150 years...
The American states quickly adopted the new normal

In Europe monarchies were being overthrown by the masses.
They would all succumb to the separation of church and state.

Well Christian states had an era that spanned 1,800 years. It was very successful and its riches built the world we live in today..

In contrast its been less than 200 years since church and state separated and the result is plain to see. The collapse of western civilization.
There are other factors as well but the main one is God, His loss and the loss of His moral guidance.

A society has never been successful without religion. Therefore im voting that they should be united
 

Jay Ross

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Jun 20, 2011
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The separation of church and state started happing in the 19th century...
The term was first coined by Thomas Jefferson though the concept had been around for about 150 years...
The American states quickly adopted the new normal

In Europe monarchies were being overthrown by the masses.
They would all succumb to the separation of church and state.

Well Christian states had an era that spanned 1,800 years. It was very successful and its riches built the world we live in today..

In contrast its been less than 200 years since church and state separated and the result is plain to see. The collapse of western civilization.
There are other factors as well but the main one is God, His loss and the loss of His moral guidance.

A society has never been successful without religion. Therefore im voting that they should be united

If the people of a nation are in Christ then the Government of that Nation will be guided by God and there is no formal need to unit the Church and state government. It will have already been achieved.

The problems come when the people in Government have no Godly compass to guide their ways.
 
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Cristo Rei

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The problems come when the people in Government have no Godly compass to guide their ways.

True...

I don't think it would be possible to unite the church and government now, not here anyway. Its too multicultural now down here
 

Jay Ross

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True...

I don't think it would be possible to unite the church and government now, not here anyway. Its too multicultural now down here


LOL, are you talking vertically or horizontally in your response.
 

Cristo Rei

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I think Australia has lost its identity. USA and UK look like they're the same.

Down here, they've banned Australia day parade and celebrations but they're allowing "invasion day" parade and celebrations where they come through like a protest making these false claims about history...
Then in February their allowing Chinese new year celebrations for 2 weeks
 

April_Rose

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I don't know honestly this is a really tough question. Part of me wants to vote together because America was founded upon Christianity and another part of me wants to vote separate since I don't believe that religion should be forced upon anybody since God never forces Himself on others. Actually, now that I think of it I'm going for the latter.
 
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historyb

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A society has never been successful without religion. Therefore im voting that they should be united

I agree but then comes the question - Whose Church? In my case my Church would be great with the State. Catholics will want their Church, Orthodox will want theirs, etc.
 

Josho

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Well let's put it this way, you cannot force Christianity onto non-Christians....

The Australian government is meant to represent all people in this nation, not just Christians.

If you look through the Bible, God allowed freedom of choice, and some choices have spiritual consequences and sometimes physical consequences, a lot rejected the Gospel and they lived their own ways, God allowed this to happen. Non-Christians shouldn't be expected to live like Christians because they don't know Jesus.

We cannot expect Scott Morrison to be a Prime Minister for just Christians, and Americans cannot expect Joe Biden to be a President for just Christians, even though both claim to be Christian, and I believe they are both Christians, even though they aren't perfect, nobody is perfect.

While we can complain about immorality all we want, we got to remember God allows freedom of choice, and it is not up to Scott Morrison or Joe Biden or Boris Johnson alone, it is up to the people of the nations on whether if they want to live a moral life or immoral life.

@Prayer Warrior might want to see this post.

In the medieval ages and the medieval ages were New Testament times, people used to get put to death for not being Christian and that was certainly not loving one another. We could even debate that slavery in the 1700s, 1800s, early 1900s was not a true image of Christianity, and a number of leaders claimed to be Christian during those times, and that was not loving one another. And then you had some people claiming to be Christian in those times or earlier also, killing the natives of the lands they wanted to settle on, that was not true Christianity, that was not loving one another, and it was only in recent history, that people of different races and skin color were still being treated like dirt, that is not true Christianity either

And we wonder why Christianity has fallen in Western Nations. Where is the love?

As Christians we need to do a better job at loving one another.

@aspen was right when he said ”Time is short......best get to loving your neighbor "
 

Pathfinder7

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Interesting topic.
---
Many of early settlers in North America came...to escape persecution from 'Church establishment & State' (State Church).. in England & Continent.
----
Some historians see that it had impact on..the concept/idea of 'Separation of Church &
State' in United States.
-- It often becomes heated argument/discussion issue..in US.
----
Not sure.. some countries had similar experience(early settlers) in history.
- I am still searching for info./answer.. from historical sources.
 
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Cristo Rei

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I agree but then comes the question - Whose Church? In my case my Church would be great with the State. Catholics will want their Church, Orthodox will want theirs, etc.

Good point. I didn't word the question very well. I was imagining being in Europe during the middle ages when it wasn't so divided.
Should they ever have split the two in the first place? Cos it all went downhill from there in terms of people turning from God.

But you're thinking about it from the present. That's a much harder proposition now that its all divided up
 

Cristo Rei

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Well let's put it this way, you cannot force Christianity onto non-Christians...

Well, they can and they have before... I think u meant "shouldn't"...:p

The Australian government is meant to represent all people in this nation, not just Christians.

If you look through the Bible, God allowed freedom of choice, and some choices have spiritual consequences and sometimes physical consequences, a lot rejected the Gospel and they lived their own ways, God allowed this to happen. Non-Christians shouldn't be expected to live like Christians because they don't know Jesus.

We cannot expect Scott Morrison to be a Prime Minister for just Christians, and Americans cannot expect Joe Biden to be a President for just Christians, even though both claim to be Christian, and I believe they are both Christians, even though they aren't perfect, nobody is perfect.

While we can complain about immorality all we want, we got to remember God allows freedom of choice, and it is not up to Scott Morrison or Joe Biden or Boris Johnson alone, it is up to the people of the nations on whether if they want to live a moral life or immoral life.

@Prayer Warrior might want to see this post.

In the medieval ages and the medieval ages were New Testament times, people used to get put to death for not being Christian and that was certainly not loving one another. We could even debate that slavery in the 1700s, 1800s, early 1900s was not a true image of Christianity, and a number of leaders claimed to be Christian during those times, and that was not loving one another. And then you had some people claiming to be Christian in those times or earlier also, killing the natives of the lands they wanted to settle on, that was not true Christianity, that was not loving one another, and it was only in recent history, that people of different races and skin color were still being treated like dirt, that is not true Christianity either

And we wonder why Christianity has fallen in Western Nations. Where is the love?

As Christians we need to do a better job at loving one another.

@aspen was right when he said ”Time is short......best get to loving your neighbor "

Ye, I was just saying above that I didn't word the question correctly.
What I was thinking was whether they should have changed in the first place.
Otherwise yes, it's too late now for sure...

Should I rephrase it?