One taken to heaven and the other left to face the Tribulation...

Truther · Jan 22, 2021

CharismaticLady said:
The beginning of the GT is when the partial blindness of national Israel is lifted, and also the fullness of the Gentiles is complete, meaning no more Gentiles will be newly saved. Now the focus goes back to national Israel and all Israel shall be saved and become part of the Church, the Bride of Christ. Jesus is not a polygamist. There are not two brides, so who do you think are they that "come out of the Great Tribulation, if the Bride has already been raptured? Do you think God favors the wild olive tree over the natural?

As you can see by the letters to the seven churches, the last four are known denominations that go to the second coming beginning with Thyatira, the Roman Catholic Church and Orthodox Church, the only denominations who revere Jezebel, the goddess and her godchild Babylonian mystery religion who revere the goddess even more than the child. (Then Sardis, the Protestant denominations linked to the Reformation, from Lutheran, Reformed and then Methodists in white robes at the end of that era; then Philadelphia, who take holiness and keeping the Word of God to a new level; then the falling away of the heart nominal Christian we have now of Laodecia.)

Many of today's Christians have to overcome as they are in name only, but not born again. They have to be tested by tribulation. It is they that will be beheaded if they do not take the mark of the beast, but survive the seals. Those who have already overcome before the start of the GT will be protected, and not have to be tested by martyrdom. The Philadelphians are the Christians who will be "alive and remain" to the second coming, as all other types of Christians who are neither hot nor cold, but are nominal Christians will be martyred.

During the first half of the GT, the martyred will be nominal Christians from before the start of the GT. The second half, will include Jews.

Revelation 12:
13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman (Israel) who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time (the partial blindness is healed), from the presence of the serpent. (3 1/2 years) 15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman (national Israel), that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. (National Israel coming into the Church was protected.) 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring (the Church), who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 13:
5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months (the last half of the GT, another 3 1/2 years). 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them (more martyrs of both Jew and Gentile). (Again, remember the Philadelphians will be alive and remain protected during those 7 years of GT.)

The partial blindness is not lifted until Christ returns through the clouds and every eye see's him.

Only some Jews, just like only some gentiles, get the Holy Ghost today, as we are limited, prior to that future event.

Even the 144,000 Jews of the GT will have a part experience like we have now.

National Israel will be still looking for the 1st coming when the dragon tries to destroy them.

The offspring are the 144,000 Jews, not the church. These martyred Jews vanish(death) and are seen later in heaven.

The sole reason satan tries to destroy Israel is to attempt to make God a liar per Zech 14, when Christ and the church return to save Jerusalem and Israel.

If he can destroy the woman, he destroys the promise.

CharismaticLady · Jan 22, 2021

Truther said:
The partial blindness is not lifted until Christ returns through the clouds and every eye see's him.

No, they are given the last 7 years BEFORE the second coming.

BTW With your pre-trib. rapture theory, who do you think are those who come out of the Great Tribulation having washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb? This is an important question, I don't think you have thought through.

And, who do you believe is the "woman" of Revelation 12? That is key to understanding the GT and the players.

Randy Kluth · Jan 22, 2021

Truther said:
Do you teach the saints will be collateral damage?

Isn't it obvious? You don't think Jeremiah was collateral damage when the Babylonians besieged Jerusalem? You don't think the Christian Jews were collateral damage when Rome oppressed Israel? You don't think Christians were collateral damage when the Romans ruled over peoples they belonged to?

Truther said:
Are you a Great Tribulation prepper?

I believe that we should prepare Christians for trials and testing just as God left the record of how He tested and tried Israel in the Wilderness. Paul exhorted his fellow believers to "stand strong." Is that a Tribulational prepper?

At any rate, the Great Tribulation was defined by Jesus to be God's punishment upon the Jewish People in the NT age. Christian believers among the Jews were collateral damage in this treatment of the Jewish People in the NT Diaspora. They've been exhorted to "endure to the end" by Jesus himself. Is Jesus a "Great Tribulation prepper?"

Truther said:
Does Jesus or the Apostles warn us to be preppers or just suffer the wrath of God with the wicked?

Jesus and the Apostles both exhorted us to teach, to exhort, to encourage, to rebuke, if necessary. It is all designed to keep us on the right track, and on the right path of righteous living, so that we will be proud on the day of Christ's revelation. When we suffer in this life, living a righteous life, we are *not* experiencing God's wrath *towards us.* Rather, this is God's wrath poured out upon an ungodly world.

If we like suffer in a major hurricane that God visits upon an area full of unbelief, casinos, pornography, and corruption, we are just collateral damage. We live in the area, and suffer along with those upon whom this wrath is actually directed.

Truther said:
Or, did Jesus say this?...
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Sometimes God gives a means of escape from some judgments directed at the wicked. For example, Christians were warned to escape from Jerusalem when the Roman Army, the Abomination of Desolation, was coming. But when a judgment from God is so large, so expansive, obviously Christians are going to have to go through dreadful experiences as a result of judgment directed not at them, but only upon a large number of wicked in that region.

Lot was given to escape Sodom. But if we live in California, during the raging fires, our houses may get burned down, not because God is angry at us, but only because we live in this region as a testimony against the unrighteousness of the people there.

At any rate, you're quoting a passage of Scripture that took place at a time in history when all 7 churches suffered indignities due to their living in areas that were in fact under God's wrath. Some of the conditions we endure are only because God has called us to be witnesses in this place, where the ungodly are given witness to a better life they can choose to convert to.

God could take us home, but He loves these people, and wants to testify both to their wickedness and to the possibility of change before final judgment comes.

Truther · Jan 22, 2021

CharismaticLady said:
No, they are given the last 7 years BEFORE the second coming.

BTW With your pre-trib. rapture theory, who do you think are those who come out of the Great Tribulation having washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb? This is an important question, I don't think you have thought through.

And, who do you believe is the "woman" of Revelation 12? That is key to understanding the GT and the players.

The woman is future national Israel at the middle of the GT.

Truther · Jan 22, 2021

Randy Kluth said:
Isn't it obvious? You don't think Jeremiah was collateral damage when the Babylonians besieged Jerusalem? You don't think the Christian Jews were collateral damage when Rome oppressed Israel? You don't think Christians were collateral damage when the Romans ruled over peoples they belonged to?

I believe that we should prepare Christians for trials and testing just as God left the record of how He tested and tried Israel in the Wilderness. Paul exhorted his fellow believers to "stand strong." Is that a Tribulational prepper?

At any rate, the Great Tribulation was defined by Jesus to be God's punishment upon the Jewish People in the NT age. Christian believers among the Jews were collateral damage in this treatment of the Jewish People in the NT Diaspora. They've been exhorted to "endure to the end" by Jesus himself. Is Jesus a "Great Tribulation prepper?"

Jesus and the Apostles both exhorted us to teach, to exhort, to encourage, to rebuke, if necessary. It is all designed to keep us on the right track, and on the right path of righteous living, so that we will be proud on the day of Christ's revelation. When we suffer in this life, living a righteous life, we are *not* experiencing God's wrath *towards us.* Rather, this is God's wrath poured out upon an ungodly world.

If we like suffer in a major hurricane that God visits upon an area full of unbelief, casinos, pornography, and corruption, we are just collateral damage. We live in the area, and suffer along with those upon whom this wrath is actually direct.

Sometimes God gives a means of escape from some judgments directed at the wicked. For example, Christians were warned to escape from Jerusalem when the Roman Army, the Abomination of Desolation, was coming. But when a judgment from God is so large, so expansive, obviously Christians are going to have to go through dreadful experiences as a result of judgment directed not at them, but only upon a large number of wicked in that region.

Lot was given to escape Sodom. But if we live in California, during the raging fires, our houses may get burned down, not because God is angry at us, but only because we live in this region as a testimony against the unrighteousness of the people there.

I will teach folks this...

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

And you can teach folks this...

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee through the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Deal?

Randy Kluth · Jan 23, 2021

Truther said:
I will say it again.

I need no assistance with extra Biblical commentary.

I can prove a pre trib rapture with scripture alone....

You cannot for the simple reason that *nobody in the Church* saw it taught in the Bible for 1800 years! Obviously, it is not taught in the Scriptures, and must be read into them! There is not a single explicit statement stating that Christ will return prior to his 2nd Coming. None!

There are quite a few statements indicating Christ is coming soon. But there is nothing that says he will come *before* the revelation of Antichrist, or before his destruction. On the contrary, Paul taught that Christ cannot come *before* Antichrist is both revealed and destroyed! This is just plain sense teaching from 2 Thes 2.

Truther said:
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Nobody prior to Darby thought that this meant the Church would be caught up, or raptured out of the time of Antichrist's Reign! We all know that God preserves the souls of his people, even through death and suffering. And sometimes we are given to escape some outpourings of God's wrath upon the wicked, just as Lot escaped Sodom.

But on other occasions, the prophets did not escape "hours of trials," and died martyrs' deaths. Jesus himself prayed to escape the hour of trial, but God did not allow him too. Are we better than our Master? No!

Truther · Jan 23, 2021

Randy Kluth said:
You cannot for the simple reason that *nobody in the Church* saw it taught in the Bible for 1800 years! Obviously, it is not taught in the Scriptures, and must be read into them! There is not a single explicit statement stating that Christ will return prior to his 2nd Coming. None!

There are quite a few statements indicating Christ is coming soon. But there is nothing that says he will come *before* the revelation of Antichrist, or before his destruction. On the contrary, Paul taught that Christ cannot come *before* Antichrist is both revealed and destroyed! This is just plain sense teaching from 2 Thes 2.

Nobody prior to Darby thought that this meant the Church would be caught up, or raptured out of the time of Antichrist's Reign! We all know that God preserves the souls of his people, even through death and suffering. And sometimes we are given to escape some outpourings of God's wrath upon the wicked, just as Lot escaped Sodom.

But on other occasions, the prophets did not escape "hours of trials," and died martyrs' deaths. Jesus himself prayed to escape the hour of trial, but God did not allow him too. Are we better than our Master? No!

Of course nobody saw the pre trib rapture because it has not happened yet.

Jesus said this....

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

You think it means this...

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee COMPLETELY THROUGH the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Paul and Jesus only spoke of it.

It is your duty to prove them correct.

Would you keep your children through a rated R movie or from it?

CharismaticLady · Jan 23, 2021

Truther said:
The woman is future national Israel at the middle of the GT.

Yes, national Israel, but she is seen at the beginning, but is hidden, so the Christians are persecuted instead.

You missed a bit:
With your pre-trib. rapture theory, who do you think are those who come out of the Great Tribulation having washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb? This is an important question, I don't think you have thought through.

Truther · Jan 23, 2021

CharismaticLady said:
Yes, national Israel, but she is seen at the beginning, but is hidden, so the Christians are persecuted instead.

You missed a bit:
With your pre-trib. rapture theory, who do you think are those who come out of the Great Tribulation having washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb? This is an important question, I don't think you have thought through.

I have.

Many will die in the GT.

Now, this will be the first time you will ever hear this but, remember when Jesus said the gospel must first be preached in all the world and THEN shall the end come?

You do.

Okay, is God commissioning Swaggart etc. or foreign missionaries for this task?

No.

God will send 3 angels per Rev 14 to preach the gospel and issue warnings to every living inhabitant on earth in their language, regardless of their language or beliefs.

This will cause a mass revolt against the anitchrist and the mark of the beast, resulting in mass deaths to be saved.....

Angel #1 that will preach the gospel as per Jesus said....

6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Angel #2 decreeing the everlasting destruction of Rome to mankind....

8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Angel #3 telling these new converts that were frightened by this personal, world wide warning to die and/or resist at all costs...

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

In summary, if anyone takes the mark in the tribulation to skip death, they will go straight to hell for eternity, which such a warning of 3 angels coming to them personally, ignored.

CharismaticLady · Jan 23, 2021

Truther said:
I have.

Many will die in the GT.

Now, this will be the first time you will ever hear this but, remember when Jesus said the gospel must first be preached in all the world and THEN shall the end come?

You do.

Okay, is God commissioning Swaggart etc. or foreign missionaries for this task?

No.

God will send 3 angels per Rev 14 to preach the gospel and issue warnings to every living inhabitant on earth in their language, regardless of their language or beliefs.

This will cause a mass revolt against the anitchrist and the mark of the beast, resulting in mass deaths to be saved.....

Angel #1 that will preach the gospel as per Jesus said....

6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Angel #2 decreeing the everlasting destruction of Rome to mankind....

8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Angel #3 telling these new converts that were frightened by this personal, world wide warning to die and/or resist at all costs...

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

In summary, if anyone takes the mark in the tribulation to skip death, they will go straight to hell for eternity, which such a warning of 3 angels coming to them personally, ignored.

I think you missed the point of my question. Who are martyred for not taking the mark? Jews or Gentiles? Were they Christians going into the GT, or were they Jews who were saved during it, or were they Gentiles?

Keraz · Jan 23, 2021

Truther said:
Would you keep your children through a rated R movie or from it?

What a stupid question!
Regarding the forthcoming fiery wrath of God, the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, we are told to pray for the Lord's protection through it all. Zephaniah 2:3
There is no removal for anyone.

Truther · Jan 24, 2021

CharismaticLady said:
I think you missed the point of my question. Who are martyred for not taking the mark? Jews or Gentiles? Were they Christians going into the GT, or were they Jews who were saved during it, or were they Gentiles?

No, these folks....

6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Truther · Jan 24, 2021

Keraz said:
What a stupid question!
Regarding the forthcoming fiery wrath of God, the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, we are told to pray for the Lord's protection through it all. Zephaniah 2:3
There is no removal for anyone.

Let me rephrase the question.

Would you sit through a rated x movie or rather be kept from it?

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Now, does Jesus keep the saints THROUGH or FROM the GT?

CharismaticLady · Jan 24, 2021

Truther said:
No, these folks....

6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

And if they accept the gospel and become part of the Bride of Christ, will they have missed their own wedding supper?

Good night, T. This has been good. Makes me want to study Revelation all over again.

What do you think these are:

2 Thes. 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

And who are the angels preaching to if the fullness of the Gentiles is already complete? Romans 11.

Keraz · Jan 24, 2021

Truther said:
No, these folks....

6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

The angel of Revelation 14:6, is a metaphor for the 144,000 who will proclain the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Proved by Isaiah 66:19

Truther said:
Let me rephrase the question.
Would you sit through a rated x movie or rather be kept from it?
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Now, does Jesus keep the saints THROUGH or FROM the GT?

It is still a stupid question, that has no relevance to whether or not we are on earth during the GT.
That we are is proved by Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7

Revelation 3:10 is very shaky ground on which to build a doctrine. Keeping from; can be by protection, as many prophesies say the Lord will do for His people on His Day of fiery wrath. Isaiah 43:2, Psalms 97:10-12, 1 Corinthians 10:13

Truther · Jan 24, 2021

CharismaticLady said:
And if they accept the gospel and become part of the Bride of Christ, will they have missed their own wedding supper?

Good night, T. This has been good. Makes me want to study Revelation all over again.

What do you think these are:

2 Thes. 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

And who are the angels preaching to if the fullness of the Gentiles is already complete? Romans 11.

Yes, they will be found at the marriage supper too....

Rev 14:
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

These described in 2 Thes are those that somehow ignored the 3 angels of Rev 14 that came to them personally and took the mark of the beast anyway. They have been described by God from the beginning of creation as worthy of damnation...

16 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image....

6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy....

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Which means that God was totally offended by these sinners that ignore His unprecedented grace of sending 3 personal witnesses to each of these persons. Nobody ever had such a warning before in history.

Many folks, after these 3 encounters, will be willing to die in the Lord after these encounters.

This is the "Judas" effect at a worldwide scale.

Judas himself was fore known to go to hell, because God knows human destiny from the foundation of the world.

Truther · Jan 24, 2021

Keraz said:
The angel of Revelation 14:6, is a metaphor for the 144,000 who will proclain the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Proved by Isaiah 66:19

It is still a stupid question, that has no relevance to whether or not we are on earth during the GT.
That we are is proved by Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7

Revelation 3:10 is very shaky ground on which to build a doctrine. Keeping from; can be by protection, as many prophesies say the Lord will do for His people on His Day of fiery wrath. Isaiah 43:2, Psalms 97:10-12, 1 Corinthians 10:13

No, Rev 3:10 is a PROMISE.

You will either qualify to be kept FROM, or be allowed to pass THROUGH the GT.

If you as a saint, do not keep the word of His patience, you will go THROUGH it.

If you as a saint, keep the word of His patience, you will be kept FROM the GT.

It is really up to us with what path we choose.

CharismaticLady · Jan 24, 2021

Truther said:
Yes, they will be found at the marriage supper too....

Rev 14:
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

These described in 2 Thes are those that somehow ignored the 3 angels of Rev 14 that came to them personally and took the mark of the beast anyway. They have been described by God from the beginning of creation as worthy of damnation...

16 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image....

6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy....

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Which means that God was totally offended by these sinners that ignore His unprecedented grace of sending 3 personal witnesses to each of these persons. Nobody ever had such a warning before in history.

Many folks, after these 3 encounters, will be willing to die in the Lord after these encounters.

This is the "Judas" effect at a worldwide scale.

Judas himself was fore known to go to hell, because God knows human destiny from the foundation of the world.

So then the marriage supper is not in heaven at the beginning of the GT.

CharismaticLady · Jan 24, 2021

Truther said:
Yes, they will be found at the marriage supper too....

Rev 14:
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

These described in 2 Thes are those that somehow ignored the 3 angels of Rev 14 that came to them personally and took the mark of the beast anyway. They have been described by God from the beginning of creation as worthy of damnation...

16 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image....

6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy....

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Which means that God was totally offended by these sinners that ignore His unprecedented grace of sending 3 personal witnesses to each of these persons. Nobody ever had such a warning before in history.

Many folks, after these 3 encounters, will be willing to die in the Lord after these encounters.

This is the "Judas" effect at a worldwide scale.

Judas himself was fore known to go to hell, because God knows human destiny from the foundation of the world.

Where in the length of the 7 year GT are the three angels message?

Truther · Jan 25, 2021

CharismaticLady said:
So then the marriage supper is not in heaven at the beginning of the GT.

That is correct.

It is first seen in chapter 19.

There is alot of activity buzzing around in heaven prior to that depicted though.

One taken to heaven and the other left to face the Tribulation...

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