A Christian who deny Jesus is God in Flesh

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WaterSong

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God is a Spirit (John 4:24) who inhabits eternity (Isaiah 57:15).

How do you explain this apart from making a distinction between the Father and the Son?
Where is there written a distinction?
Isaiah 57:15
For this is what the high and exalted one says,
the one who rules[aq] forever, whose name is holy:
“I dwell in an exalted and holy place,
but also with the discouraged and humiliated,
in order to cheer up the humiliated
and to encourage the discouraged.

FOOTNOTE for [aq]
tn Heb “the one who dwells forever.” שֹׁכֵן עַד (shokhen ʿad) is sometimes translated “the one who lives forever,” and understood as a reference to God’s eternal existence. However, the immediately preceding and following descriptions (“high and exalted” and “holy”) emphasize his sovereign rule. In the next line, he declares, “I dwell in an exalted and holy [place],” which refers to the place from which he rules. Therefore it is more likely that שֹׁכֵן עַד (shokhen ʿad) means “I dwell [in my lofty palace] forever” and refers to God’s eternal kingship.


John 4:24
God is spirit, and the people who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.
 

mjrhealth

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Like I asked, are you multiple people, because you have multiple, names. Titles, descriptions?

In the US men name there sons after themselves and call them Junior, does that make there sons them,??? we are made like Christ in the Image, likeness of God, does that make us all Gods??

Joh_10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

And we becoming adopted sons, does that also make us God.

Heb_1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?


beget
/bɪˈɡɛt/

verb
literary
past participle: begotten
1.
(especially of a man) bring (a child) into existence by the process of reproduction.
 

justbyfaith

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Which verse does Jesus and the scribe agree? That would be the verse where Jesus and the scribe are talking. Starts at v 12.
We had this same discussion a few months back. You dodged like crazy on that one to. I never seen someone fight as hard as you to avoid a question

I have not avoided the question. The passage in question does not say what you say it says.

If someone realizes Jesus is Lord (as best as they understand) and believe in their heart God raised Him from the dead, they shall be saved!

They must confess that Jesus is the Lord (1 Corinthians 12:3 (kjv)...according to how that is defined in Matthew 11:25 and Luke 10:21.

And you will be wrong! Salvation is not based on believing Jesus is God!

If anyone denies that Jesus is God, they will die in their sins if they continue to their dying breath in that unbelief (John 8:24).

Believing in the Deity of Christ, therefore, is essential to salvation.

Well you are implying they got all their i's dotted and t's crossed before they die and that is just not true. The penitent thief was saved and He knew nothing of Jesus other than He was a king! He knew nothing of HIs deity or 2nd person of th etriune God or barely anything- He was the lowest of the low caste!

He just asked to be remembered when Jesus entered His kingdom- and Jesus saved HIim.

I believe that the thief was around during Jesus' ministry; and may have even been present when Jesus claimed to be God in John 8:58.

It was very likely common knowledge, in that day, at the very least, that Messiah (the son that was given) would have the name of "The everlasting Father" (Isaiah 9:6)....at the very least, there is no proof to the contrary.

Some here would forbid someone who wishes to trust Jesus as Savior until they meet a theological test! They would say "Wait, wait, you cannot trust Jesus as Savior until you believe all this stuff you may or may not have ever heard of before." "But you said Jesus died for my sin and rose again and if I believe that I can be saved." "no, no you have to come to understand and believe in teh deity of jesus and his place in the Trinity etc.etc.etc."> This is so wrongheaded!

You have to believe in the Jesus of the Bible (see 2 Corinthians 11:3-4); who is God.

Anyone who takes the beginning of John's gospel at face value and believes the testimony of John will understand that He is God. It happens at the very beginning of any sound Christian walk.

If someone reads John 1:1-3, John 1:14 and denies the Deity of Christ, that will probably characterize their belief system from then on in. And apart from some miracle, they are never going to have and believe in the true and living Jesus of the Bible.
 
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WaterSong

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Since we only have one God to say Jesus is God we must have 2... But that is teh question I did ask
Must have two? How do you figure?
Your statement is flawed as written. Since we only have one God to say Jesus is God we must have 2
Everything in the flesh, all that exists, is of and from God. Jesus was God. The flesh of Jesus, the bone, the blood, his organs, were of and from God. There is only one! Jesus said, I and my father are one.
Thou shalt name him, Emmanuel, meaning God with us.
One!
Ephesians 4:6
 

WaterSong

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So if you have two names or two titles, that means you are two people? :rolleyes:
Precisely.
In human terms lets take the name/person, Emmanuel Smith. ES is a father, a brother, and a dentist. Is ES three people? Or is he Emmanuel Smith present as a dad, a brother and a dentist?
I think what confuses some is they believe the term, God, is a distinction removed from that of, holy spirit. But the scriptures tell us, God is holy, God is spirit. Therefore when we think in terms of God the real identity of God is holy spirit.
 
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Taken

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...we are made like Christ in the Image, likeness of God, does that make us all Gods??

•What God CREATED from Dust was A Form of Flesh and Bone God called A man...
•What God MADE "very good" was giving that Form Life from His Breath.

Man fell from "being very good", and Offered a Way to become Restored to "good"...Christ LIKE, who Himself is Good.

God came in the "Likeness" appearance of men, to Teach men "How to Become" in Christ's Likeness.

You can call anything you want "a god".

The Heavenly Lord God Almighty, is my God and He is He, and I am me. No, I am not a god, but I am in His Likeness, with His Life in my soul and spirit Forever.
 
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Taken

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Precisely.
In human terms lets take the name/person, Emmanuel Smith. ES is a father, a brother, and a dentist. Is ES three people? Or is he Emmanuel Smith present as a dad, a brother and a dentist?
I think what confuses some is they believe the term, God, is a distinction removed from that of, holy spirit. But the scriptures tell us, God is holy, God is spirit. Therefore when we think in terms of God the real identity of God is holy spirit.

Lord God Almighty
Son, Father, Power
 

WaterSong

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•What God CREATED from Dust was A Form of Flesh and Bone God called A man...
•What God MADE "very good" was giving that Form Life from His Breath.

Man fell from "being very good", and Offered a Way to become Restored to "good"...Christ LIKE, who Himself is Good.

God came in the "Likeness" appearance of men, to Teach men "How to Become" in Christ's Likeness.

You can call anything you want "a god".

The Heavenly Lord God Almighty, is my God and He is He, and I am me. No, I am not a god, but I am in His Likeness, with His Life in my soul and spirit Forever.
John 10:34 verse is often misunderstood don't you find?
33“We are not stoning You for any good work,” said the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God.” 34 Jesus replied, “Is it not written in your Law: ‘I have said you are gods’? 35If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken—

The Hebrews to whom Jesus addressed these remarks were known even then as God's chosen people. Ye are God's isn't saying, we are demigods. Rather, it is a reminder that the Jews in their high office in the temple accusing Jesus of Blasphemy for saying he and the father are one and the same, are God's people. Ye are God's (people). John 10:34 Commentaries: Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I SAID, YOU ARE GODS '?
 
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Taken

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Makes even more proof that Jesus was God. :)
Though the one to whom you addressed those remarks think in terms of God putting on an act.

It's simple.
The lack of wisdom is weird to me.

God taught mankind like mankind teaches a child a complex topic.
Simple, bit by bit, on a lower level.

Ever raise a child?
Give them all knowledge you have in the first week, Year, 10, 15, 20 years of their Life?
Hide Knowledge from them?
Get down to their level face to face?
Give them Lots of Rules?
Give them wisdom AS they mature?
Blah, blah...ofcourse we do...

Do they become wise and figure out you are not a child yourself (because) you got on the floor and played with them face to face.
Do they figure out you make the rules? You Are the head of the household?
Do they learn you ARE A son and father and not two people?

Lord God Almighty IS One God.
A man mimicking God, does not a man multiple men, any more than the Lord God Almighty is multiple gods.
 
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WaterSong

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It's simple.
The lack of wisdom is weird to me.

God taught mankind like mankind teaches a child a complex topic.
Simple, bit by bit, on a lower level.

Ever raise a child?
Give them all knowledge you have in the first week, Year, 10, 15, 20 years of their Life?
Hide Knowledge from them?
Get down to their level face to face?
Give them Lots of Rules?
Give them wisdom AS they mature?
Blah, blah...ofcourse we do...

Do they become wise and figure out you are not a child yourself (because) you got on the floor and played with them face to face.
Do they figure out you make the rules? You Are the head of the household?
Do they learn you ARE A son and father and not two people?

Lord God Almighty IS One God.
A man mimicking God, does not a man multiple men, any more than the Lord God Almighty is multiple gods.
Well said. :)
Lord God is one God just as was said of him in the OT in Deuteronomy 6.
Maybe it is the plural language in some scriptures in the OT that lead people to think early Judaism and by proxy today's Christianity, is polytheist in some manner.
Maybe what leads to that thinking is the commandment, thou shalt have no other gods before me.
If God is the only one what other gods could he be referring to?

When the Jews believed in other gods
 

101G

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Oh here you go again self appointed instructor of men do you know how a child is conceived in a womb, do you not know how Christ was born, the Egg from a woman, the seed from God
First thanks for the reply, second, Give scripture for this nonesense.... but I'll give what the bible say.. listen, Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."
the word overshadow tells us how the body of the Lord Jesus was conceived. it's the Greek word,
G1982 ἐπισκιάζω episkiazo (ep-ee-skee-ad'-zo) v.
1. to cast a shade upon
2. (by analogy) to envelop in a haze of brilliancy
3. (figuratively) to invest with preternatural influence

take note of the 3rd. reference. "to invest with preternatural influence", what do preternatural means. It means, "out of the ordinary course of nature; exceptional or abnormal". the meaning here, not in the natural way of conception between a man and a women. this body as I have said, was God conceived or God made, and “formed” in Mary’s womb. so you're reproved again

now you find a scripture that contridicts this..... if you can... :oops: ... the floor is yours... (smile)

so book chapter and verse please.

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

101G

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are you saying that God who never changes changed... or that God put the spirit of Himself in Himself???
I had to place this separate. well God do change, but not his NATURE. as a matter of fact God even repented...... :p YIKES!

then you ignorantly said,
or that God put the spirit of Himself in Himself???
LOL, LOL, LOL, have you not been listening? no, he shared himself equally in flesh and G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') him...him...himself in that flesh. BINGO... are the light blubs coming on now?.

once again, "DIVERSITY" in equally sharing... scripture, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

offspring:
G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
kin.
{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
[from G1096]
KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock
Root(s): G1096

BINGO, the "Diversity" here, the offspring, is the "EQUAL SHARE" of the Spirit in flesh. NOW Listen and Learn

the Root= The Spirit/Father, the FIRST.

the Offspring = the shared, or the diversified spirit/Son, the LAST.

the ONE person, JESUS is the First and the Last.......................... listen, Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last."

even a blind man can see that..... the FIRST, is the SAME PERSON as the LAST, only diversified....... listen, the apperance of the Dove at the Lord Jesus baptism, is the ROOT, the FIRST, the FATHER. and the manifested man standing in the water, is the OFFSPRING, the LAST, the SON.

must I sang it to you? or draw a coloring board with this one it? the Root is the First... the Father. the Offsapring is the Last ... the Son. enough said.

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

mjrhealth

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Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.
Oh thats right you might be wrong but because you quoted the bible as we all do you must be right. nice way of saying you dont really know. But than I still havnt figured out how satan speaking is Gods word or Holy either,,
 

mjrhealth

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A man mimicking God
Would not that make Him a fraud?? Many men come to claim to be the Christ, try to imitate Him does that make them Him,

Jesus did as any good son would do, His fathers will.
 

101G

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Oh thats right you might be wrong but because you quoted the bible as we all do you must be right. nice way of saying you dont really know. But than I still havnt figured out how satan speaking is Gods word or Holy either,,
first thanks for the reply, second, can you prove me wrong?..... :D YIKES! that all to it, "prove me in error". 1 Thessalonians 5:21 "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good."
IT'S JUST THAT SIMPLE.

as said,
Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

justbyfaith

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Where is there written a distinction?
Isaiah 57:15
For this is what the high and exalted one says,
the one who rules[aq] forever, whose name is holy:
“I dwell in an exalted and holy place,
but also with the discouraged and humiliated,
in order to cheer up the humiliated
and to encourage the discouraged.

FOOTNOTE for [aq]
tn Heb “the one who dwells forever.” שֹׁכֵן עַד (shokhen ʿad) is sometimes translated “the one who lives forever,” and understood as a reference to God’s eternal existence. However, the immediately preceding and following descriptions (“high and exalted” and “holy”) emphasize his sovereign rule. In the next line, he declares, “I dwell in an exalted and holy [place],” which refers to the place from which he rules. Therefore it is more likely that שֹׁכֵן עַד (shokhen ʿad) means “I dwell [in my lofty palace] forever” and refers to God’s eternal kingship.


John 4:24
God is spirit, and the people who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

That God is a Spirit who inhabits eternity precludes that He does not exist in human flesh in the Person of the Father.

That He is come in the flesh indicates a distinct personage that is come in the flesh and is not a Spirit who dwells in eternity, Omnipresent.

Because He is in flesh He dwells in a finite human body.

In order to also be Omnipresent and dwelling in eternity, I see Him as being a distinct Person from the one who dwells in a finite human body.
 
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justbyfaith

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Actually, the Son is the Father (Isaiah 9:6); while the Father is not the Son.

And the Holy Ghost is the Son and the Father; while the Father is not the Holy Ghost and the Son is not the Holy Ghost.