A Christian who deny Jesus is God in Flesh

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So I guess when you have the privilege of leading someone to the Lord you first before praying with them have a theology class so you can make sure they believe all you wrote above.

It is a general practice as far as I know for those who lead people to Christ, to exhort them to read the gospel of John first.

After reading the first fourteen verses of that book, they will have been faced with the doctrine of Christ's Deity.

If they reject that doctrine when they read about it, they weren't born again.

That is the bottom line.
 

Truther

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2019
10,295
1,479
113
62
Lodi
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@Truther

John 1:1-14
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God and the Word became flesh.

2 John 7
For many deceivers have gone out into the world, who confess not Jesus Christ coming in the flesh; this is the deceiver and the antichrist.
I did not know a person's word is another person.

Please elaborate?

Thanks.
 

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
12,505
3,695
113
69
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It is a general practice as far as I know for those who lead people to Christ, to exhort them to read the gospel of John first.

After reading the first fourteen verses of that book, they will have been faced with the doctrine of Christ's Deity.

If they reject that doctrine when they read about it, they weren't born again.

That is the bottom line.


I am glad you are not God!

Last time I was in china I witnessed to a young atheist woman. She asked how could I believe in a God I could not see. I told her she believes in the air and we can't see, feel, touch or smell air but yet we know it is there. I shared with her that God so loved her (I briefly explained sin) He sent His only son to die and rise again from teh dead for her! If she would trust HIm she would become His child! She had no bible (it was illegal) andthat is all the theology she had! She received Christ after I left, then later on God sent underground believers to her and she would get pages of teh Bible to read (there are not enough bibles to go around in China).

A Year later our pastor was invited to speak at a Conference for foreigners in shanghai. Little Joi-Li snuck out of Beijong illegally, went to shanghai to tell our pastor (who was with the missions group I was part of), she was in love with Jesus and serving HIm as all she could! OUr pastor gave her a bible which was the first time she had a whole Bible in her hands!

Now if you are going to tell me she wasn't saved until she got to read about th efull deity of Christ and that He is the Son of God and god the son- you need to put down your Bible and get to know the god of the bible.

God is far more merciful on HIs throne, than you are in your pontifications from your theological ivory tower! That girl was gloriously saved the moment she asked Jesus to forgve her. How long afterwards did it take until she could understand the doctrine of the deity of Christ, I don't know!

We have missionaries from our church to Indonesia. they are working with people who had no written language. they spent several years taking their spoken language and making a written language in order to start writing scripture to them.

These people are in love with the Lord but they still as of yet cannot grasp the concept of one God but three different persons. but to say they haven;t gotten saved-makes you very small and in opposition to the mercy and grace of God!
 

WaterSong

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2020
2,245
2,277
113
Kansas City
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
First thanks for the reply, second I do not agree with that assessment of Emmanuel Smith. example, what if ES was a Truck Driver, and a obstetrician, and ... a husband.... well ES can drive a truck and at the same time be a Husband. but could ES delievey a baby in his home town as an obstetrician, and at the same time, driving a truck in a neighboring state? no, so that example want work here concering the Godhead. understand, G243 allos, and what it connotes. Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort
a NUMERICAL DIFFERENCE is what God is as the ECHAD of himself in ordinal number..... and not cardinal in number... understand, that's how ES can be in another state, driving a truck, while at the exact time delivering a baby in another state........ see it now.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
Sure it works. Here's why. ES is first and foremost ES. Wherever he is & whatever he is doing. God is always the one &only Holy Spirit Creator of all things of & from himself. Jesus was God! Knitted together of & from Holy Spirit. Jesus was never someone else. He was what he said of himself; He & The Father are/as One. God created everything including the first humans from himself. That does not change when Holy Spirit God was with us as, Emmanuel/Jesus.
 

WaterSong

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2020
2,245
2,277
113
Kansas City
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That God is a Spirit who inhabits eternity precludes that He does not exist in human flesh in the Person of the Father.

That He is come in the flesh indicates a distinct personage that is come in the flesh and is not a Spirit who dwells in eternity, Omnipresent.

Because He is in flesh He dwells in a finite human body.

In order to also be Omnipresent and dwelling in eternity, I see Him as being a distinct Person from the one who dwells in a finite human body.
As you wish. Ours is a personal relationship with Awesome Eternal Power. If your soul linked with the most Holy sees that it is as He wills. God Bless.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Sure it works. Here's why. ES is first and foremost ES. Wherever he is & whatever he is doing.
did you read my post? no, ES can not drive a truck in one state, and in another state, deliever a baby at the exact same time. understand, in Titles, there are a Brother, Son, or Husband which is Relational , meaning abstract, or none-transitory. where a title identifies a work, which is Concrete in nature, is transitory, so your rational assessment of these titles are flawed, and incorrect. you can change a Job, along with it's title, but not a Relationship as with a son, or father, that permanent.


Jesus was God! Knitted together of & from Holy Spirit.
care to explain what you mean by "Knitted together"

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

WaterSong

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2020
2,245
2,277
113
Kansas City
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
did you read my post? no, ES can not drive a truck in one state, and in another state, deliever a baby at the exact same time. understand, in Titles, there are a Brother, Son, or Husband which is Relational , meaning abstract, or none-transitory. where a title identifies a work, which is Concrete in nature, is transitory, so your rational assessment of these titles are flawed, and incorrect. you can change a Job, along with it's title, but not a Relationship as with a son, or father, that permanent.



care to explain what you mean by "Knitted together"

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
Yes, I read your post. Your mistake in your Exegesis is that you attempt to limit God to the confines of your human metaphor. That cannot apply.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, I read your post. Your mistake in your Exegesis is that you attempt to limit God to the confines of your human metaphor. That cannot apply.
ERROR on your part, and here's why. when the Lord Jesus was G2758 κενόω kenoo in flesh, Philippians 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:" was he everywhere at the same time? no, nor did he go into all the world, (hence the Great commission for us). so your Exegesis is reproved, NOW, please stick to the scriptures in your effort to reprove me... ok. thanks in advance.

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Now if you are going to tell me she wasn't saved until she got to read about th efull deity of Christ and that He is the Son of God and god the son- you need to put down your Bible and get to know the god of the bible.

These people are in love with the Lord but they still as of yet cannot grasp the concept of one God but three different persons. but to say they haven't gotten saved-makes you very small and in opposition to the mercy and grace of God!

Now I am not saying that they have to have the head knowledge that Jesus is God, necessarily, in order to be saved; but if they do not have the knowledge of it in their heart through a personal relationship with Jesus; and if they were to come across the information and reject it: then they are not saved.

It does not take long to explain the reality that Jesus is the Lord (God); and this should be one of the first things that is taught to new believers in any country. If a ministry does not teach this faithful message, they are being negligent.

Because clearly, the scriptures says that if anyone does not believe that Jesus is the great I AM, they will die in their sins (John 8:24)...if they die in that unbelief.

Therefore the doctrine of the Deity of Christ ought to be the first doctrine that is taught to new believers and related as a doctrine that is essential to salvation.
 

mjrhealth

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2009
11,810
4,090
113
Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Now I am not saying that they have to have the head knowledge that Jesus is God, necessarily, in order to be saved; but if they do not have the knowledge of it in their heart through a personal relationship with Jesus; and if they were to come across the information and reject it: then they are not saved
Still adding too when does it stop...All who call upon the name of teh lord,,, what will you add, we dont have to believe you just Him, His rules not yours.
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Still adding too when does it stop...All who call upon the name of teh lord,,, what will you add, we dont have to believe you just Him, His rules not yours.
I'm saying by the word of the Lord that if you don't believe that Jesus is the Lord (God), you will die in your sins if you continue in that unbelief to the moment of your death.

I am warning you now....when you are judged by Christ, and He asks you why you failed to believe in this essential doctrine, what will you say to Him?

If you have no answer, He will say to you, I never knew you...

You're right...it is His rules not mine...and likewise it is His rules not yours.

Therefore we should both look to the holy scriptures which testify of Him in order to determine what we believe on these matters.

@mjrhealth, I believe that you have a mental illness and that the voices in your head are deceiving you. You really should go and het help for that.

It's nothing to be ashamed of. Just get the help you need.
 

mjrhealth

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2009
11,810
4,090
113
Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I'm saying by the word of the Lord that if you don't believe that Jesus is the Lord (God), you will die in your sins if you continue in that unbelief to the moment of your death.
You say a lot of things but none of that has anything to do with salvation, just you deciding who God can save.. stumbling blocks you continually add, shutting the door to heaven.
Be careful whos side you are on.
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You say a lot of things but none of that has anything to do with salvation, just you deciding who God can save.. stumbling blocks you continually add, shutting the door to heaven.
Be careful whos side you are on.
It is not my decision or judgment but is based on a statement that was made specifically by our Lord Jesus Christ.
 

jaybird

Well-Known Member
Feb 29, 2016
1,595
559
113
I'm saying by the word of the Lord that if you don't believe that Jesus is the Lord (God), you will die in your sins if you continue in that unbelief to the moment of your death.

I am warning you now....when you are judged by Christ, and He asks you why you failed to believe in this essential doctrine, what will you say to Him?

If you have no answer, He will say to you, I never knew you...

You're right...it is His rules not mine...and likewise it is His rules not yours.

Therefore we should both look to the holy scriptures which testify of Him in order to determine what we believe on these matters.

@mjrhealth, I believe that you have a mental illness and that the voices in your head are deceiving you. You really should go and het help for that.

It's nothing to be ashamed of. Just get the help you need.

just so i am understanding correctly, there is no passage that commands we must believe Jesus is the Most High, John 8 24 says "he" not "most High".
you say its His rules but you add your own assumption to the scripture and proclaim your assumption is equal with scripture?
then you say look to the scriptures but you only seem to accept your own version of the scripture.

and when you get proven wrong, like i did on Mark 12, you dont seem to mind and keep proclaiming this view that has been clearly proven wrong.
 

mjrhealth

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2009
11,810
4,090
113
Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
It is not my decision or judgment but is based on a statement that was made specifically by our Lord Jesus Christ.
No its just your opinion, no more no less.

So just add more stumbling blocks, its you salvation now that you are playing with.
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
just so i am understanding correctly, there is no passage that commands we must believe Jesus is the Most High, John 8 24 says "he" not "most High".

The "he" is in italics; which indicates that it is not in the original text.

So it can be more accurately understood as "Unless you believe that I am <the great I AM>, you will die in your sins."

Even if you include the "he" as being valid, John 8:27 defines for us who that "He" is...they understood not that He was speaking to them of the Father.

and when you get proven wrong, like i did on Mark 12,

You have yet to show in Mark 12 where the passage says what you say it says.
 

jaybird

Well-Known Member
Feb 29, 2016
1,595
559
113
The "he" is in italics; which indicates that it is not in the original text.

So it can be more accurately understood as "Unless you believe that I am <the great I AM>, you will die in your sins."

Even if you include the "he" as being valid, John 8:27 defines for us who that "He" is...they understood not that He was speaking to them of the Father.

no, your misrepresenting that scripture, Jesus did not give a name, had Jesus gave them a name the pharisees would have challenged or accepted His claim, they did neither, they responded with "who" are you because they wanted to know what Jesus meant when He said "he". debunked
did Jesus mean Most High when He said "He" maybe, i am not going to speak for what Jesus might have been thinking that did not get written down, but if we stick to what is written, there is no where before that where Jesus claims to be the Most High.



You have yet to show in Mark 12 where the passage says what you say it says.

and thats the thing, i have shown you more times than i can count, showing you does not do a thing because you will always, always, always ignore it, you have to ignore it because your only other choice is to admit you have been proving wrong, but i will let you in on a little secret, when you ignore someones challenge in a debate it pretty much establishes that you have admitted defeat. lucky for me since you ignore it that means i can keep bringing it up.
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
no, your misrepresenting that scripture,

Nope.

Jesus did not give a name, had Jesus gave them a name the pharisees would have challenged or accepted His claim,

They picked up stones to stone Him in John 8:59; John 10:31-33 makes it clear that they did this because they thought He was committing blasphemy; making Himself God.

they did neither, they responded with "who" are you because they wanted to know what Jesus meant when He said "he". debunked

I think that they couldn't believe their ears as to what He was claiming; and, in that, they wanted Him to clarify what He was saying. He did so in John 8:58; even breaking normal grammatical usage in order to make it clearer that He was making a claim.

and thats the thing, i have shown you more times than i can count, showing you does not do a thing because you will always, always, always ignore it, you have to ignore it because your only other choice is to admit you have been proving wrong, but i will let you in on a little secret, when you ignore someones challenge in a debate it pretty much establishes that you have admitted defeat. lucky for me since you ignore it that means i can keep bringing it up.

Tell you what...why don't you quote your passage from Mark 12 and what you think it says and we'll go from there...how about that?

You have not shown me anything in Mark 12...you keep refusing to make your teaching accountable.

If you set forth the teaching in question rather than just referring to a chapter in the Bible and saying that it teaches something, it will be more conducive to a real conversation.