Hebrews 10:26-31

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Tong2020

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I think the answer to this is in Titus, "the grace of God unto salvation has appeared to all men . . ."

God give a grace to enable us to make an actual choice whether we want to believe Him or not.

Much love!
We all know that and agree to that.

But the point in my question is: what natural man, will respond positively? So, if one does respond positively, what happened?

Tong
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Tong2020

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Willfully sinning is not resting in the gospel of grace. God's kindness is not defined as letting you live in sin in the name of grace. Every moment you are in sin you are out of God's rest. And if you are willfully sinning you're treading on the ground of outright rejecting God's rest. And God will banish you there if you do it long enough.

God's rest is symbolized by Israel's rest from his enemies round about him and the slavery he once was in. For me and you that translates into rest from our enemy 'sin'. You can't sin and be at rest in God at the same time.
Of course I refer to the genuine Christians here, those born of God, to be clear. The Christian is in Christ. The Christian’s rest is Christ. And Christ is the Lord of the Sabbath. Paul testified and confessed “I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me” (Gal.2:20).

<<<God's kindness is not defined as letting you live in sin in the name of grace.>>>

Nobody here says otherwise.

<<<...And God will banish you there if you do it long enough.>>>

God will chastise his children who seems to have lost its way into sin. And God’s discipline is effective.

Tong
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Tong2020

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Nevertheless, may the Lord abundantly bless you more and more; even as the result of the blessing that I am blessing you with today.

New Living Translation
Rom 2:4, Don’t you see how wonderfully kind, tolerant, and patient God is with you? Does this mean nothing to you? Can’t you see that his kindness is intended to turn you from your sin?
Rom 2:5, But because you are stubborn and refuse to turn from your sin, you are storing up terrible punishment for yourself. For a day of anger is coming, when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed.
Rom 2:6, He will judge everyone according to what they have done.
A misuse of scriptures I would have to say.

Who do take Paul was talking about there? Not to those born of God, right? Yes.

Tong
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Tong2020

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Nevertheless, the passage in question shows that repentance is away from sin and towards righteousness and not just towards faith in Christ.
Not just towards faith in Christ? As if you’re saying that repentance from sin and towards righteousness is something that is separate from having faith in Christ or that it is something not included in having faith in Christ. I hope that is not what’s in your mind.

Tong
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Tong2020

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Hi @Tong2020,

I am in agreement with you on the subject of eternal security;

However I also see @Ferris Bueller's pov quite clearly, that eternal security is not the issue and does not really matter.

What matters is that you hold onto your confidence stedfast to the end; that you would endure to the end.

By enduring to the end, you will show the world on your day of judgment that you were genuinely born again.

If you don't endure to the end, you show that you were not genuinely saved on your day of judgment.

So the issue at hand is whether or not you endure to the end.
<<<I am in agreement with you on the subject of eternal security;>>>

Good then. And if you do, then you believe that that is taught in scriptures.

<<<However I also see @Ferris Bueller's pov quite clearly, that eternal security is not the issue and does not really matter.>>>

It does not matter perhaps to you and him, and that’s on you and him. But I repeat here again, it matters to me, as any truth taught in scriptures for that matter. The fact that, for which you just expressed your agreement to, eternal security is taught in scriptures, means it matters.

<<<So the issue at hand is whether or not you endure to the end.>>>

If that were the issue, then how do you intend to settle that? Will I? Will you?
On your part perhaps you will say you may or may not endure, depending on your will. On my part I say I will endure, not that I myself gives the assurance, but that, because I am assured by God that he will bring me home.

Tong
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justbyfaith

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So, again, how could the man respond in the positive?

So, again, how could the man respond in the positive?

Because the Holy Spirit draws the man without making him born again so that he is enabled to make a decision either for or against Christ.

When the decision is made for Christ, then the man is born again.

Anything else is heresy; it implies that a man can be born again apart from choosing or believing in Christ.

A misuse of scriptures I would have to say.

Who do take Paul was talking about there? Not to those born of God, right? Yes.

The point being that repentance is away from sin and not just towards faith in Christ.

Not just towards faith in Christ? As if you’re saying that repentance from sin and towards righteousness is something that is separate from having faith in Christ or that it is something not included in having faith in Christ. I hope that is not what’s in your mind.

Yes; for @Blood Bought 1953 purports that repentance means merely to place your faith in Christ without turning away from sin. Of course there is no separation between the two; but according to his teaching there is a separation between the two.

Then you don’t know what’s there in front of you, it seems.

Tong
R1572

No...you don't know what is right in front of you. Don't try to turn it around on me.
 

Tong2020

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Because the Holy Spirit draws the man without making him born again so that he is enabled to make a decision either for or against Christ.

When the decision is made for Christ, then the man is born again.

Anything else is heresy; it implies that a man can be born again apart from choosing or believing in Christ.
It seems that you will never get to answer the question, because all you do is answer the matter of being able to respond, but nothing on the matter how the man get to choose the positive.

The point being that repentance is away from sin and not just towards faith in Christ.
Again you seem to take the two as separate or that repentance from sin is not included in having faith in Christ. It is.

And why Romans 2:4-6, when what is said there are not pointed to the Christian? Do you think @Blood Bought 1953 did not accept the gospel of Christ?

Yes; for @Blood Bought 1953 purports that repentance means merely to place your faith in Christ without turning away from sin. Of course there is no separation between the two; but according to his teaching there is a separation between the two.
I’ll let @Blood Bought 1953 confirm or deny that.

No...you don't know what is right in front of you. Don't try to turn it around on me.
I know what’s in front of me. Do you?

1 Timothy 1: 5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, 6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk,

Paul was not talking about straying from a pure heart, from a good conscience and from a sincere faith. Rather it is from the purpose. That is what Paul is saying some have “astocheo”, missed the mark.

Tong
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BloodBought 1953

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Willfully sinning is not resting in the gospel of grace. God's kindness is not defined as letting you live in sin in the name of grace. Every moment you are in sin you are out of God's rest. And if you are willfully sinning you're treading on the ground of outright rejecting God's rest. And God will banish you there if you do it long enough.

God's rest is symbolized by Israel's rest from his enemies round about him and the slavery he once was in. For me and you that translates into rest from our enemy 'sin'. You can't sin and be at rest in God at the same time.


Wow....
You have just destroyed my whole purpose for living.....I live for Sinning and there ain’t nothing better than good old fashioned “ willful Sinning” .....
I’ve said here a dozen times that when God gave me His Unconditional Forgiveness , He also gave me something else—- a New Heart That hates sin......
I have also stated many times that committing sins has all the appeal for me as getting a Drano Enema, or sticking my hand in a fire....
You have no excuse for not hearing these things—- get the mud out of your ears....invent a different tactic as you continue to be “ an Accuser Of The Brethren” and a Spreader Of a False Gospel Of Lucky Repentance.....
 
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BloodBought 1953

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The point I do not agree with you on is your assertion that the genuine believer can not stop believing. It's a moot point since what matters is that you believe to the very end. Whether or not you think that's a given does not change this very important teaching in scripture.

You can win the argument about if you can stop believing or not but still be lost for not believing to the very end. Being satisfied that you know the real answer to the question won't save anybody on the day of wrath. Actually believing to the very end will. Let's focus on our major—continuing to believe to the very end. Not on a minor—wondering if you will automatically believe to the very end or not. Excelling in that minor won't save you on the day of wrath. Your theologies won't save you on the day of wrath.

The only thing that will save a person is having the Luck to be able to repent of all of their sins before they die....right?
 

Behold

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But having to continue in that very same believing is now suddenly me earning my own salvation?

Exactly.
Because you are giving CREDIT to your "BELIEVING" as the MEANS and the WAY that you STAY SAVED.
So, this is not giving the CREDIT to JESUS.

You trust this.....>"as long as i dont stop BELIEVING" then i wont go to HELL.

So, that is your faith= in BELIEVING........vs faith in JESUS

"as long as i dont lose my FAITH"....... when in fact, if you are born again, .....you dont have to hold onto or keep anything, as its GOD who is keeping YOU now.

Listen..
You can't stop being born again.
Understand?

You can't stop being the "temple of the Holy Spirit".

God is not going to stop living in you, because you THINK a certain way today or tomorrow.

You BELONG to God, not based on how you BELIEVE TODAY, but based on God redeeming you with His BLOOD.
You are "bought with a price" and KEPT by GOD, based on that CROSS and that DEATH and that RESURRECTiON that has FINISHED your salvation.

See, Salvation is not what you complete by your deeds or behavior.
Salvation is what JESUS COMPLETED 2000 Yrs ago that is GIVEN to you, as your "the GIFT of Salvation".
 
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Behold

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I'm trying to show people who live in sin they aren't born again!

Good works do not prove you are saved.
They prove you are trying to do good works.
Salvation is only proven by being born again..

"depart from me, i never knew you" is Jesus's response to "do gooders" who were casting out DEVIL's In Jesus's Name.
They were doing powerful WORKS in the Spirit, in Christ's name.
Jesus said.....>"depart from me, i never knew you".
So, "works" are works, and Salvation is something different.
Salvation is what JESUS accomplished that is applied to a person, as God's Gift of Salvation.
That has nothing to do with trying to present your body or any other idea you have of "walking the walk".
 

BloodBought 1953

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Nevertheless, may the Lord abundantly bless you more and more; even as the result of the blessing that I am blessing you with today.

New Living Translation
Rom 2:4, Don’t you see how wonderfully kind, tolerant, and patient God is with you? Does this mean nothing to you? Can’t you see that his kindness is intended to turn you from your sin?
Rom 2:5, But because you are stubborn and refuse to turn from your sin, you are storing up terrible punishment for yourself. For a day of anger is coming, when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed.
Rom 2:6, He will judge everyone according to what they have done.

The biggest “ blessing” that God could bestow upon me is to have Gospel Perverters like you and Bueller to renounce their False Gospel Of “ Lucky Repentance” for Salvation....
 
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justbyfaith

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I’ll let @Blood Bought 1953 confirm or deny that.

If he were to deny it, he would be lying about things that he has taught in the past.

I’ve said here a dozen times that when God gave me His Unconditional Forgiveness , He also gave me something else—- a New Heart That hates sin......
I have also stated many times that committing sins has all the appeal for me as getting a Drano Enema, or sticking my hand in a fire....

So, you're saying along with the Calvinists that salvation comes first and then repentance and faith...

I think that we are going to have to agree to disagree here.

For it is written,

Rom 5:1, Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2, By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.


(and, I suppose that I am just going to have to endure the persecution that will be coming my way by your hand...1 Corinthians 4:12-13)

It is written,

Gal 4:29, But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

For, your calling my gospel, John the Baptist's gospel, and Ezekiel's gospel FALSE and PERVERTED is indeed persecution of us.
 
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justbyfaith

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God is not going to stop living in you, because you THINK a certain way today or tomorrow.
If someone falls away because of temptation (Luke 8:13), they do not continue to have salvation.

To preach otherwise is to preach heresy.
 

justbyfaith

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The biggest “ blessing” that God could bestow upon me is to have Gospel Perverters like you and Bueller to renounce their False Gospel Of “ Lucky Repentance” for Salvation....
You are not going to be able to stop us from preaching the truth...not even if you threaten us a thousand times over.
 

BloodBought 1953

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Yes; for @Blood Bought 1953 purports that repentance means merely to place your faith in Christ without turning away from sin. Of course there is no separation between the two; but according to his teaching there is a separation between the two.
I’ll let @Blood Bought 1953 confirm or deny that.

There are different types of Repenting....The Type Of Repentance That Saves is NOT Turning “FROM” Sin—— it’s Turning “ TO” God.....
Just like God says “ TURN to Me , and I will TURN to you...”
Just like God says. “,Turn to me with Faith in Jesus Christ and I will Save you to the Uttermost “
For dim bulbs out there everywhere, like “ justbyfaithplusluckyrepentance“ or “Erroneous Bueller”.....Jesus gave us an example of what Saving Repentance looks like...Jesus said that this man became “ JUSTIFIED” or “ SAVED” because he TURNED TO GOD with this simple prayer....” Lord, have Mercy on me, a Sinner”......
That Prayer was prompted by a Contrite Heart, which only the Holy Spirit can provide ...”Nobody comes to God lest the Spirit draw him” ....The Spirit “ draws” by the Conviction Of Sin.....that Conviction is what gives one a Contrite Heart That God will respond to.....
Nobody in Heaven will lack a Contrite Heart....The Heart that shows you that you are a Lost Sinner That must have a Savior....You understand that and then TURN to that Savior....lacking that “ TURN” or Repentance.....you ain’t gonna be in Heaven....
 
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