This is a quote from the terminator movies. Tell me if it's true or false (preferably by using the Bible) and why you believe as you do.
"The only fate is what we make for ourselves." True?
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WaterSong
Well-Known Member
Well, that phrase from the Terminator film was intending I think to refute the actual meaning of fate.
Fate (Noun)1. the development of events beyond a person's control, regarded as determined by a supernatural power.
Now, with regard to the OP query, using scripture, the answer as pertains to that Terminator quote would be no, it is not true.
Proverbs 16:9
The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps.
Consider. God is Sovereign. God is Omniscient. God is Omnipresent and Omnipotent. God tells us himself, it cannot be true of us, if those traits are true in him.
Ecclesiastes 6:10
Whatever has happened was foreordained,
and what happens to a person was also foreknown.
It is useless for him to argue with God about his fate
because God is more powerful than he is.
WaterSong
Well-Known Member
Per the criteria defined by the OP, Biblical support to refute or affirm fate, yes.
Test for yourself. If something has ever happened in your life personally, or those close to you, that is devastating or hard to comprehend.
And you or someone close to you for you to witness said in response to that event(s), it is/was God's will, then you there have your answer.
Where does it ever say that sin is God's will? I would not say that to someone myself. I think it presumes something I can not know.
If I control nothing, then how can anything I do or don't do matter?
WaterSong
Well-Known Member
That's between you and God.
Consider the scripture, as you did request to be provided in this discussion. God's Omniscience as found in, 1 Samuel 2:3, Job 28:24 & 37:16 & 42:2, Psalm 44:21&139:4 and verses 7-8.
Psalm 147:5. Proverbs 15:3, Jeremiah 16:17 & 23:24, Acts 1:24, Hebrews 4:13, Matthew 10:30 and 1 John 3:19-20.
Consider the parent child analogy. The parent knows more than the child about life. The child makes their decisions, asks their questions out of ignorance, and innocence. While the parent who knows this, also lets the child, to a point of course, learn from their decisions and mistakes. Because the parent is always there to help guide the child and help them to also learn and heal from their mistakes.
Does this mean the child is able to choose to do something the parent is unaware of? No, not really, because the older more wise and experienced parent has made their own decisions and mistakes, which is why they are wise and experienced having survived them.
The same with God. If we agree God is Sovereign over his creation, and even the masculine pronoun is a human attachment to afford an anthropomorphic identity to what is the incorporeal holy spirit, and is Omniscient, as the source of all that exists, and as such, since all that does exist is of and from God therein making God also corporeal within creation and the created, (Ephesians 4:6) how can anything in existence do anything, be anywhere, think any thought, etc... that the creator of it did not create?
The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps.
WaterSong
Well-Known Member
I'm not following your logic....just because God knows everything doesn't mean he has to control everything. and the parent child analogy doesn't really work, because I certainly don't have total control over my children ever. Do I control their brain waves? Or even their actions? If God controlled my every thought, then he, not I, would be the author of every sin I ever committed.
That is an excellent point...and it substantiates the concept of free will in man very nicely.
WaterSong
Well-Known Member
Daniel 4:35
All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, and he does according to his will among the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand or say to him, “What have you done?”
That doesn't say that mankind doesn't have a choice in the matter of his own fate.
Which doesn't say he controls everything or that sin is his doing. It merely says he will do what he wills. Perhaps freedom of will is what he wants for us. Otherwise, we can not be blamed for doing evil, and God would not have told Israel that he did everything he could and they still disobeyed him.
Missing the Mark is sin but generally I would say known sin is rebellion against God. We cannot rebel against God if he is the one controlling our sinning.
WaterSong
Well-Known Member
Even Jesus said, no one can come to him unless the father draws them.
And this from Paul:Ephesians 1:11
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,
What Does the Bible Say About God Controls Everything?
All one has to do is seek scripture that pertains to the subject(s) of, Predestination. And Predeterminism.
And another question. How did sin come to enter the world?
WaterSong
Well-Known Member
Can we agree that one definition of sin, per the OT, is transgression against God's law?
Sin - Holman Bible Dictionary -
If sin is an offense or lapse against God's law, sin being what transpires in our non-compliance to the laws of God, is God not the author of sin when he is the author of the law that, when transgressed, results in the charge against us that is sin?
I have. In few I've dived headfirst into this topic in the past and never found convincing evidence that God predetermined everything. Who is " we" in the verse you quoted? I say: "we" are people who have chosen to respond to God's drawing.
In context, Paul describes God’s plans to create a special people for Himself, cumulating in a restored Earth headed by the Messiah. The point of Ephesians 1:11 might be that God’s plans have been thought out. God is not acting capriciously or without thought. There is an ultimate purpose for what God is doing. This doesn’t mean that God does all things to ever happen. But it suggests the contrary, that things on Earth exist in opposition to God and “all” God’s acts are designed to rectify this situation.
Of course not! Am I the "author" of my son's death if I make a law against playing in traffic and he does it anyway? Or if he steals a car, is the person who made the law against car theft the author of his theft and responsible for him being punished for his crime?
Now, I will say that the Terminator movie quote takes things too far if taken literally. Obviously a whole lot that happens in the movies are beyond the control of the characters involved and many of them die because of things totally beyond their control, but, it seems to me that the movies also teach us an important lesson: That one person making the right choices in difficult situations can change the course of history. Joseph for example. Much of what he went through was totally beyond his control, but if I can borrow from yet another movie: “I wish it need not have happened in my time,” said Frodo.“So do I,” said Gandalf, “and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”
Isn't this really the only choice anyone has?
Isn't this really the only choice anyone has?
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