"The only fate is what we make for ourselves." True?
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WaterSong
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So we've got into limited atonement already? If you're a calvinist, just say so, so I know what I'm arguing against.
John 16:8 “And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment.”
Jude 1:14b-15 “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones, to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness that they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”
God convicts all. Not all respond.
That wasn't God saying he doesn't listen, it was an unbeliever who was quickly proven wrong.
What?
18 “I have not made trouble for Israel,” Elijah replied. “But you and your father’s family have. You have abandoned the Lord’s commands and have followed the Baals.
Apparently you disagree with Elijah...
That's exactly what happened.
"When God saw their deeds, that they turned from their wicked way, then God relented concerning the calamity which He had declared He would bring upon them. And He did not do it."
God states in Jeremiah 18:8-9, “If that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it. Or at another moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant it.”
How can God relent if he predetermines everything? That makes no sense whatsoever.
WaterSong
Well-Known Member
WaterSong
Well-Known Member
WaterSong
Well-Known Member
Actually, the concept that is given forth in John 9:31, shows forth quite clearly the concept that a man must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins in order to be saved (Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39).
By submitting to this ordinance, a person is saved apart from his own prayer to save himself. He ceases to be a sinner (because his sins are remitted) and from thenceforth he is able to come before the throne of grace with confidence and have his prayer answered
I never would have taken you for a baptismal regeneration believer.
There's loads of scriptural evidence that belief is what is required for salvation, not any act, but that's another topic.
It's brings us to the same conclusion: That everything we do is ultimately without purpose or meaning and we are just cogs in the wheel. The funny thing is, scripture confirms again and again that one man's actions can change history, either for good or evil. Starting with Adam, to Noah and Moses and Abraham, and all the way through, it's people who choose to follow God's leading, although all imperfect humans, that drastically alter the course of history.
Yes, faith is certainly the key to salvation.
Baptism and/or calling on the name of the Lord is the key to assurance of salvation.
A person can merely believe and they "should not perish" (John 3:16).
If they believe and are baptized they "shall be saved" (Mark 16:16)
If they call on the name of the Lord they "shall be saved." (Romans 10:13)
People misunderstand the book of Job bigtime and I can see why. It's a very long and somewhat confusing ride.
I've written on Job a bit: Here's part of it:
Those who use this book to say: “ God will do as He pleases.” are missing the point. Those who use Job to say: “God causes calamity.” have it wrong. To say that God was drawing in the dark shadows of Job’s life seems to me to be borderline blasphemy, and it makes a mockery out of the very real picture of spiritual warfare that is though out scripture. Some assume that Job was right to say that he would accept trials from God, but that is also missing the point. God was not the source of Job’s trials. Maybe what Job should have said was: “God forgive me for blaming my pain on you, even for a moment, when all you have ever brought me is good. God wasn’t drawing in the shadows of Job’s life. He was preventing those shadows from doing their worst. The kind of health and wealth theology that says: “If I live a good life, I will never be attacked by Satan and every thing will be peachy keen.” is one direction that our assumptions about how God works can take us, and Job seemed to have subscribed to that, at least in part, when he kept saying that because he was blameless, he deserved better. Another direction that some go with Job is to assume that it is all about God controlling everything including Satan...
The book of Job is not, I believe, supposed to only teach us that God is in control and we are not. It seems to me that it teaches us how much difference one man’s life can make in this universe, which is the opposite of what many use the book to say. Satan peers over his cards and whines about the game being rigged. So God says, in essence: “Fine, I’ll put everything on Job. I’ll gamble that he really does love me and not just the stuff I’ve given him.”
And although Job whines a bit, and is extremely confused about what God is doing, and what in the devil is going on, he comes through with flying colors. God bets on Job and Job places his bets on God’s goodness, against all odds, in spite of what he feels or how life looks at the moment. He says: “God will see me though in the end. I’ll cast my lot with Him.”
Even the ancient book of Job looks forward to a day when a former murderer and learned pharisee named Saul becomes God’s man, Paul, and Paul looks back at all his Torah learning and understands that Christ has fulfilled all the requirements of the law. And Paul says: “I’ll gamble it all on Jesus and Him crucified. This is where I take my stand.”
Job isn’t about God saying “Shut up, I’m in control here.” It’s about God’s faithfulness to come through in the end for those who truly love him. He might not make us wealthy or wildly successful in this life. We may be poor and blind and naked. But, if we place our bets on Jesus and Him crucified, we can be assured of being part of God’s restoration of creation, to be made new, and shed this old body like a worn out garment.
Well if you are saying that we must also confess with our mouth or in some way make a public declaration of our salvation, I won't argue with that.
What is the difference between not perishing and being saved?
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