The Great Danger Of Being Out Of Church

rjp34652@yahoo.com · Dec 1, 2010

bigape said:
Hello again SaberTruth

There’s the “flaw”, in your ointment.
You said........

Your flaw, is a rejection of authority. God’s authority.

You are right, that God’s people(all of us), have a responsibility to reject preachers, that don’t rightly divide the Word of truth.
This is the authority a Church body has, and they should exercise it, when needed.

This....is the great falling away.

We are in the midst of the Great Apostacy. That there is extensive discussion about these things is proof that the subject is prominent in our minds.
Has such debate ever happened before? I think not.

I performed my Masters Degree work in Theology and Church History in a liberal seminary in upstate New York.
In the course of my studies I discovered that the leadership of my denomination was riddled with anti-Christ sentiment (not to mention the weaknesses of the flesh - but I won't get into that).
One of the reasons I did not pursue a vocation in the ministry was the fact that I was told outright by the Dean of Ministry, who was also the Dean of the Seminary, that I would NOT be ordained unless I "put aside all this business about Jesus Christ and getting saved." "Don't you understand," he said, "that this is just a job."

I finished my term and left the place as quickly as I could.

One of the biggest problems of the church today is leadership and the lack of it.
In my town there are numerous palm readers, psychics, and wickens. You can get an audience for spiritual guidance from any of them at any time 24/7, but you cannot get access to many ministers of the gospel. Some have even created a screening process that must be penetrated before you are priviledged enough to obtain an audience.

It is true that the members of the body of Christ are individually responsible for discerning the Word, but it is also true that God has created a place for spiritual leadership in each town and city.

Our leaders have become corrupted by the world and are in place just "to do a job".
They care not for the flock of Christ.

Is it any wonder then that we see multitudes of the sheep of Christ wandering from church building to church building in search of spiritual sustenance?

God has given us a thirst for the true fellowship of followers of Christ and for Holy inspired guidance.
Instead we are dining on smoke and ashes.

God help us, everyone.

bigape · Dec 1, 2010

Hello rjp

Thank you for your response, and for sure I have heard about this type of stuff before.

You are right, we are living in the last of the last days, but remember the Lord said “not to faint(give up)”.
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You said...........

“Is it any wonder then that we see multitudes of the sheep of Christ wandering from church building to church building in search of spiritual sustenance?”

This is the key.
The Lord is still on the throne, and He knows exactly where you are, so keep trusting in Him, and keep looking for a good Bible believing Church.(they are out their)
I know this because I pastor one.

But be very careful while on the internet; Satan is alive and well, and has billions of deceived individuals sitting at keyboards all over the net...........
2 Timothy 3:13
“But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.”
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Although I started this thread, to encourage people not to forsake the local Church, I have repeated several times, that there are many Churches you are better off not going to.

You should be in Church every Sunday(a different Church), until you find one that preaches the Word.

The Church I pastor, is an Independent Fundamental Baptist Church, and “some” of the time, you will be better off trying out Baptist Churches or Bible Churches, but not always.
Satan has found a way to infiltrate every denomination, therefore you have to “work” at finding a good Church.

Hope you do.

bigape · Dec 1, 2010

The Word said:
All the church buildings of Christianity and other religions belong to Satan. He used these to deceive sinners of the invisible church of Christ. You know, the ones that the prophets, Jesus and us saints belong to.

As I said.......

But be very careful while on the internet; Satan is alive and well, and has billions of deceived individuals sitting at keyboards all over the net...........

marksman · Dec 1, 2010

You should be in Church every Sunday(a different Church), until you find one that preaches the Word.

Why? The NT church did not meet on Sunday. Most of the churches in my area "preach the word" but they are as dead as a dodo.

marksman · Dec 1, 2010

I am mystified by this term "bible believing church" as there is no such thing. No church believes the bible is the word of God. What they believe is their interpretation of the bible is the word of God, so who is "bible believing"?

I know enough to know that whatever a church considers to be the right interpretation of scripture is deemed the truth. If that were not the case, we would all believe the same thing.

The Brethren believe that the gifts and supernatural activity of the Holy Spirit was done away with when we had the "perfect" come in the form of the cannon of scripture.

There are Brethren ex-Elders who have been baptised in the HS who say otherwise.

Pentecostal churches have built their reputation on the acts of the Holy Spirit.

There are denominatoins that believe that the scripture supports their devisive methods and there are those who believe the scripture supports meeting in homes without ordained clergy.

So which ones are "bible believing"?

bigape · Dec 1, 2010

Hello marksman

You said........

“The NT church did not meet on Sunday.”

Wrong again........
Revelation 1:10
“I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,”

The Lord’s day is Sunday(The day of the resurrection).
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You also said........

“I am mystified by this term "bible believing church" as there is no such thing. No church believes the bible is the word of God. What they believe is their interpretation of the bible is the word of God, so who is "bible believing"?”

The Bible, “says what it means and means what it says”.
Some(most), Churches twist it or overlook parts of it, to support their own beliefs.

This is not the kind of Church you or anybody needs to be in, but millions of people are.
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Therefore you said..........

“I know enough to know that whatever a church considers to be the right interpretation of scripture is deemed the truth. If that were not the case, we would all believe the same thing.”

As I have said before, the difference between all Churches, is how close the stick to the Word of God.

Interpretation, is not an issue. What it done, is they simply overlook parts of the Bible that disagrees with their teachings.

This should never be done.
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Next you said.......

“The Brethren believe that the gifts and supernatural activity of the Holy Spirit was done away with when we had the "perfect" come in the form of the cannon of scripture.
There are Brethren ex-Elders who have been baptised in the HS who say otherwise.
Pentecostal churches have built their reputation on the acts of the Holy Spirit.”

This is an old story, that I have heard many times.

Someone who “believes” a correct interpretation of the Bible, yet gives their ear to a lie, and ends up believing it.
Not only do they hurt themselves, but they hurt the faith of people like you.

After all(you would think), “no elder, could be deceived”.
But they are just like any of us: If we give our ears to things we shouldn’t we take the chance of being deceived ourselves.
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Lastly you say..........

“There are denominatoins that believe that the scripture supports their devisive methods and there are those who believe the scripture supports meeting in homes without ordained clergy.
So which ones are "bible believing"?

I hear what you are saying.

Even Jesus said that it would not be easy........
Matthew 7:13-15
V.13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
V.14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
V.15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

The first thing to do, is to make sure that you are born again.
Then fall on your face before the Lord, and ask Him to reveal the truth to you.

Do not believe me or anyone else. Go to The Bible.
It’s in black and white and it will never change.

Satan is working overtime, to try and confuse all of us, but if we keep the Word of God as our foundation, there is nothing he can do.

marksman · Dec 1, 2010

Show me "corporate worship" in the NT that remotely resembles the typical church service. Then show me the prescribed activities for such worship, and give chapter and verse for the officiating ruler.

You won't get an answer Saber Truth because there are no such instructions in scripture. All people do is quote the denominational line and hope that no one will notice that it has no backing from scripture. it is known as cognative dissonance.

bigape · Dec 2, 2010

Saber Truth asked.......

“Show me "corporate worship" in the NT that remotely resembles the typical church service.”

Okey........
Acts 20:7-11
V.7 ¶ And upon the first [day] of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
V.8 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.
V.9 And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.
V.10 And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing [him] said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him.
V.11 When he therefore was come up again, and had broken bread, and eaten, and talked a long while, even till break of day, so he departed.

Here is a Sunday night service, with a special speaker.
(You even have someone falling asleep during the message.)
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He also asked.......

“Then show me the prescribed activities for such worship, and give chapter and verse for the officiating ruler.”

Hebrews 13:7
“Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of [their] conversation.”

Hebrews 13:17
“Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that [is] unprofitable for you.”
------------------------
Acts 15:13
“And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men [and] brethren, hearken unto me:”

Now James(the Lord’s brother), was the pastor of the Church at Jerusalem, and even though Peter and Paul were present, he was in charge, because he was the pastor......
Acts 15:19
“Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:”

bigape · Dec 2, 2010

Hello marksman

It is interesting that you brought up the subject cognitive dissonance.
I love it.(So did the Lord Jesus)

This is a common practice, when people are confronted with the truth of Scripture, that disagrees with what they have been lead to believe.

At this point, a person has the opportunity to surrender to the truth of Scripture, and allow it to truly change their lives.
Or they could reject the truth of Scripture, and be plunged into even more Spiritual darkness.

I said that the Lord also loved this, because many times it brought people to a saving knowledge of the truth this way.
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The struggle here, is between a person’s “will”, and God’s truth.

The Lord wants us to surrender our will to His, so He can bless us.

marksman · Dec 3, 2010

bigape said:
Hello marksman

Wrong again........
Revelation 1:10
“I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,”

The Lord’s day is Sunday(The day of the resurrection).

This has nothing whatsoever to do with the church.

The Bible, “says what it means and means what it says”. Some(most), Churches twist it or overlook parts of it, to support their own beliefs.This is not the kind of Church you or anybody needs to be in, but millions of people are.

Like those that meet on Sunday.

As I have said before, the difference between all Churches, is how close the stick to the Word of God.Interpretation, is not an issue. What it done, is they simply overlook parts of the Bible that disagrees with their teachings.This should never be done.

As I have dialogued with denominational leaders, it is obviously all about interptretation as in miracles do not happen today and miracles do happen today.

This is an old story, that I have heard many times. Someone who “believes” a correct interpretation of the Bible, yet gives their ear to a lie, and ends up believing it.Not only do they hurt themselves, but they hurt the faith of people like you.

But they don't think it is a lie like one of Americas foremost evanagelical pastors who said "miracles do not happen today."[/size

After all(you would think), “no elder, could be deceived”. But they are just like any of us: If we give our ears to things we shouldn’t we take the chance of being deceived ourselves.

Does that mean you are not deceived?

[size="2[color="#000000"]"]I hear what you are saying. Even Jesus said that it would not be easy........
Matthew 7:13-15
V.13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
V.14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
V.15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.T

he first thing to do, is to make sure that you are born again.Then fall on your face before the Lord, and ask Him to reveal the truth to you.

Do not believe me or anyone else. Go to The Bible.It’s in black and white and it will never change.

Why do I get the impression that the truth that does not change is that which the independent baptist church teaches?

Satan is working overtime, to try and confuse all of us, but if we keep the Word of God as our foundation, there is nothing he can do.

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