Your Thoughts: Are The NT/OT Gods "Different"?

Hidden In Him said:

Question: What is your response whenever someone says that the Old Testament and New Testament Gods were clearly two different Deities, based for example on how strictly they enforced laws on sins like adultery.

In the Old Testament, the command was placed into Jewish law that anyone caught in adultery should be stoned to death. Yet in the New Testament, a woman actually was caught in adultery, and Jesus did not encourage the Jews to enforce that law as given by God (passage provided below).

Was Jesus, the God of the New Testament, different in His handling of this situation than the God of the Old Testament? Or were the two entirely consistent in how they dealt with it?

God bless, and thanks to any and all who respond.
@marks, @WaterSong, @Mayflower, @2nd Timothy Group, @charity, @Behold.

1 But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. 3 Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, 4 they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?” 6 This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.

7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” 8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?”

11 She said, “No one, Lord.”

And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.” (John 8:1-11)

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Hello @Hidden In Him,

Thank you.

5) Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?”

* This law referred only to a 'betrothed damsel. (Deuteronomy 22:24),and to show that the Lord knew their thoughts, and knew also that this was another man's 'wife', He complied with the law prescribed in such a case (Numbers 5:11-31). and stooped down and wrote 'the curses' (as required in verse 23), in the ground.

No contradiction; same commandments; same wonderful God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hidden In Him said:

Ah! Here is the classic argument!

Now, my response to this is that He never changed but was speaking to two different classes of people. That you might say is supposition, but in light of the rest of Christ's teachings, it becomes clear that He was speaking to carnal Israel in the Old Testament and spiritual Israel in the New. This is evident in that His promises to natural Israel regarded an earthly inheritance (Deuteronomy 28), whereas His promises to spiritual Israel regarded a Heavenly one (Matthew 5:11-12, Matthew 6:19-21).

What would you say to that argument?

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Bump @Barbara

Post #34

Hidden In Him said:

Ah! Here is the classic argument!

Now, my response to this is that He never changed but was speaking to two different classes of people. That you might say is supposition, but in light of the rest of Christ's teachings, it becomes clear that He was speaking to carnal Israel in the Old Testament and spiritual Israel in the New. This is evident in that His promises to natural Israel regarded an earthly inheritance (Deuteronomy 28), whereas His promises to spiritual Israel regarded a Heavenly one (Matthew 5:11-12, Matthew 6:19-21).

What would you say to that argument?

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1 Corinthians 10:18 Look at the people of Israel[l]. Are not those who eat the sacrifices partners in the altar?
FOOTNOTE
[l] Grk “Israel according to (the) flesh.”

Hidden In Him said:

Ok. An interesting response.

Let me ask you something first, sister: Do you differentiate between the Father and the Son as being two separate entities?

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No.

John 10:30-38

Cooper said:

The question needs to be along the lines of "Did the Old Testament people, worship the Father of Jesus or the gods represented by the Golden Calf?"
.

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That's a really good question. We know that the Gospel was taught to men and women of the Old Testament, but were they taught the earthly name of Jesus, Jeshua, Yeshua or Justus . . . we don't know (from the Bible). However, here is the text where we're told that Abraham was taught the Gospel:

Galatians 3:8 NKJV - "And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, [saying], "In you all the nations shall be blessed."

Cooper said:

The Israelites are indeed a chosen nation, but that is not to say the Israelites chose Christ.
.

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They couldn't choose Christ nor God. They were placed into a "Deep sleep." Why? There is a Mysterious Plan that [will] be fulfilled. The below Scripture set SCREAMS Plan!

Romans 11:7-11 NLT - "So this is the situation: Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have--the ones God has chosen--but the hearts of the rest were hardened. As the Scriptures say, "God has put them into a deep sleep. To this day he has shut their eyes so they do not see, and closed their ears so they do not hear." Likewise, David said, "Let their bountiful table become a snare, a trap that makes them think all is well. Let their blessings cause them to stumble, and let them get what they deserve. Let their eyes go blind so they cannot see, and let their backs be bent forever." Did God's people stumble and fall beyond recovery? Of course not! They were disobedient, so God made salvation available to the Gentiles. But he wanted his own people to become jealous and claim it for themselves."

Hidden In Him said:

Correct. The Greek reads literally, "Behold, Israel after the flesh. Are those eating the sacrifices not fellow partakers of the altar? What then say I? That what is sacrificed to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? (No is inferred here). But what the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons, and not to God." (1 Corinthians 10:18-20).

You appear to be applying v.18 to the idea that Paul I saying the Jews were eating of the same altar as the Christians were, am I understanding you correctly?

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I understand Paul to be saying the Jews were carnal and of the flesh.
This link has both the NET version and the MOUNCE Interlinear Koine (common) Greek version of the 1 Corinthians verse. 1 corinthians 10 NET,MOUNCE - Learning from Israel’s Failures - For - Bible Gateway

Flesh:
σάρξ (sarx)
Strong: G4561

GK: G4922

flesh, Lk. 24:39; Jn. 3:6; the human body, 2 Cor. 7:5; flesh, human nature, human frame, Jn. 1:13, 14; 1 Pet. 4:1; 1 Jn. 4:2; kindred, Rom. 11:14; lineage, Rom. 1:3; 9:3; flesh, humanity, human beings, Mt. 24:22; Lk. 3:6; Jn. 17:2; the circumstances of the body, material condition, 1 Cor. 5:5; 7:28; Phlm. 16; flesh, mere humanity, human fashion, 1 Cor. 1:26; 2 Cor. 1:17; flesh as the seat of passion and frailty, Rom. 8:1, 3, 5; carnality, Gal. 5:24; materiality, material circumstance, as opposed to the spiritual, Phil. 3:3, 4; Col. 2:18; a material system or mode, Gal. 3:3; Heb. 9:10

Sacrifices
θυσία (thusia)
Strong: G2378

GK: G2602

sacrifice, the act of sacrificing, Heb. 9:26; the thing sacrificed, a victim, Mt. 9:13; 12:7; the flesh of victims eaten by the sacrificers, 1 Cor. 10:18; in NT an offering or service to God, Phil. 4:18

You don't believe they are two Persons? Why not?

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Because Jesus said he is one with the Father. One, not two of any kind. And God told Mary her begotten son would be named, Emmanuel, meaning God with us.

Same God, different ways of dealing with the sin problem. God doesn't change, but that doesn't mean he can't change his methods.

Hidden In Him said:

Then you are in agreement with what I said in Post #34? Sorry, I can be a bit slow on the draw sometimes.

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Well, speed it up mister! lol (HUGS)
No, I don't think we are in agreement per your observation in post #34. I believePaul was addressing carnal Israel in 1 Corinthians 10. Which is why he was concerned with carnal Israel and idols. He was in Corinth, and Corinth was a diverse atmosphere of people, from Jews to pagans.
Corinth

Well yes, but they are One in Spirit while nevertheless being two separate Persons. He didn't say, "I am the Father." He said, "I and the Father are One." He also said, "When you have seen me, you have seen the Father," but this does not mean He was saying "I am the Father," or He would not have said "The Son and the Father are One... and the Son can do only what he sees His Father doing." (John 5:19-20).

If He was doing only what He saw His Father doing, how can He not be a distinct Entity from His Father?

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Where would Jesus see/observe the father doing something?

Remember Jesus' baptism by John?
The people witnessed then Holy Spirit light upon Jesus as he arose from the waters. This was the visual precursor to his later teaching with regard to those who are in faith, baptized, shall be indwelt by his Holy Spirit. Baptism, by John and as taught by Jesus to his Disciples and as they taught as his Apostles, is a religious rite of immersion that was first known as the Mikvah.

Perhaps consider when Jesus spoke those words recorded in John 5 he was speaking as one who was indwelt by Holy Spirit. God cannot fully fill the mortal coil. However, he can channel his power through his servant self, Emmanuel.

Consider the Greek: John 5 NET;MOUNCE - Healing a Paralytic at the Pool of - Bible Gateway

NET version John 5: 19 So Jesus answered them, “I tell you the solemn truth, the Son can do nothing on his own initiative[aj], but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, the Son does likewise[al].

If Jesus were merely a man, as some faiths teach, he would be unable to perform miracles. He is more than a man. He is Emmanuel, God with us.

FOOTNOTES
[aj]initiative:
Grk “nothing from himself.”

[al] likewise: What works does the Son do likewise? The same that the Father does—and the same that the rabbis recognized as legitimate works of God on the Sabbath (see note on working in v. 17). (1) Jesus grants life (just as the Father grants life) on the Sabbath. But as the Father gives physical life on the Sabbath, so the Son grants spiritual life (John 5:21; note the “greater things” mentioned in v. 20). (2) Jesus judges (determines the destiny of people) on the Sabbath, just as the Father judges those who die on the Sabbath, because the Father has granted authority to the Son to judge (John 5:22-23). But this is not all. Not only has this power been granted to Jesus in the present; it will be his in the future as well. In v. 28 there is a reference not to spiritually dead (only) but also physically dead. At their resurrection they respond to the Son as well.

Hidden In Him said:

Sublime : )

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Agreed. What's fascinating is how those changed methods all point to themselves. The Bible is so remarkable with its "living allegories," as I like to call them. Amazing.

Hidden In Him said:

TRYING, LoL.


Addressing... as in mentioning them or speaking to them? Mentioning them, yes, as a means to draw a comparison to the church, and what they too would be facing if they walked in disobedience. In fact, this is one of the texts that speaks quite clearly about how they were still dealing with the same God.

1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted 7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Gimme a sec on the rest. Speeding it up isn't so easy today, Lol.

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In verse 14 of that 1st Corinthians chapter 10, don't you think it reflects Paul is speaking present tense to those who are carnal Israel right then and there?
14 Wherefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry.