Now it's not me, but sin that lives in me

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Billy Evmur

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He didn't willfully sin as accused, but he could get frustrated at Peter and Barnabas. Then reconcile later.

I get frustrated at folk who line up with salvation by works brigade as Peter did before Paul set him straight ... it was the biggest controversy in the apostolic church and it remains the biggest controversy in the church today.
 

2nd Timothy Group

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I hear many folks talk about fearing the Lord, fear and trembling and such but I do not see so much of it

Amazing. I'm not trying to be rude, but have you read the entire Bible?

I don't live my life in fear of God. I'm not afraid of Him [because] I am in a Right relationship with him. However, I have a [reverent] fear of the Lord because I have felt His Raw, Almighty Power. I can assure you of this . . . if you had felt His Power as I have felt His Power, you'd have the exact same Reverent Fear in knowing that He can take your life at any moment. The story of Ananias and Saphira became very, very real to me. But no, I don't live a life of cowering every time I think of God. Maybe it would help to think of a slave that loves their master, yet still holds an honorable fear of the power that comes through being a slave-owner. A slave, in this sense, will love their master but fear their power.
 
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Billy Evmur

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Amazing. I'm not trying to be rude, but have you read the entire Bible?

I don't live my life in fear of God. I'm not afraid of Him [because] I am in a Right relationship with him. However, I have a [reverent] fear of the Lord because I have felt His Raw, Almighty Power. I can assure you of this . . . if you had felt His Power as I have felt His Power, you'd have the exact same Reverent Fear in knowing that He can take your life at any moment. The story of Ananias and Saphira became very, very real to me. But no, I don't live a life of cowering every time I think of God. Maybe it would help to think of a slave that loves their master, yet still holds an honorable fear of the power that comes through being a slave-owner. A slave, in this sense, will love their master but fear their power.

My fear is to offend the Lord so as to lose His immediate Presence and comfort. I don't doubt that you fear the Lord.

You cannot lose salvation but sure can forfeit God's blessing.
 

Billy Evmur

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It sounds like you are thinking that receiving the Law was what made Paul a new man, but of course that's not what happened.

I guess it remains that you are thinking Paul was speaking for the ancient Israelites, but that makes no sens to the grammar.

The thing of it is, Paul speaks of being one sort of person, and then he's no longer that person, that is,

Now it is no more I, but sin that lives in me.

Paul said he was the sinner, but now he's not.

This is what you cannot reconcile to your view. This is why I focus on this point. If your view does not harmonize, and make these passages understandable, well, that's what this thread is for.

Much love!
CL is right to pin you down on this.

In this reply you are saying that Paul did continue to sin, only it wasn't him but sin that dwelt in him that was doing it.

Did Paul continue in sin because he was not under law but under grace? God forbid.
 

2nd Timothy Group

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You cannot lose salvation but sure can forfeit God's blessing.

Hmmm . . . isn't the greatest Blessing that we can receive the Eternal Work of Christ . . . based upon a Promise and not whether or not we are offensive? Saul, later known as Paul, was certainly offensive to the Cross, yet he received the Lord's Promises and Blessings. Paul was of the Lord's Elect regardless of the fact that he was murdering Christians.
 

marks

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CL is right to pin you down on this.

In this reply you are saying that Paul did continue to sin, only it wasn't him but sin that dwelt in him that was doing it.

Did Paul continue in sin because he was not under law but under grace? God forbid.
I'm not saying that Paul did or didn't continue in sin. Or that he continued in sin because he was not under Law.

No, I'm not saying that.

In this thread I'm focusing one a correct exegesis of this particular verse.

We need to make sure we're getting each verse right so that we can have the right idea at the end of it all.

I'm saying that a key point of this passage, the latter half of Romans 7, is to teach that sin resides in the flesh, and that when we are reborn, when we are justified, that we are separated from our flesh, and that though the flesh remain corrupt and enslaved to sin, we are not. In the inner man, by which I think he means the "new creation", we are righteous and enslaved to righteousness.

One of the implications in this understanding is to know that even should we commit sin, which I still do, speaking strictly for me, that the source of this sin is my flesh, and not my new spirit, the child of God, and there is now no condemnation, no guilt or stain.

This is what many people seem to bristle at. This is where the accusations of "license to sin" come in. This when the baby gets thrown out with the bathwater. But we ARE forgiven.

The idea is that once we realize that our sins do not disqualify us from God's help, that in my inner man, I am in communion with God, and with His help, as God works we me, I am obtaining greater control over my flesh. And failure doesn't affect that, God continues His work in me.

Much love!
 

marks

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What? You're kidding.

No, just trying to make sense of your view.



Read the first sentence of Romans 1. CONTEXT

Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives?



Paul said he was the sinner, but now he's not.
Rmns 7 vs. Rmns 8
You continue to avoid responding to my OP in the specific assertion I'm making.

The law has dominion as long as he lives. In Christ, we have died. Therefore the Law no longer has dominion.

And,

It is now no more I, but sin that lives in me. These are the words of Paul, and not an ancient Israelite.

Paul speaks of a change in identity, It was me doing evil, now it's not, it's sin that lives in me committing evil.

If this were speaking of when the Law came, then you are crediting Law with making that change. But the Law cannot make one righteous.

Justification and a new creation, that makes one righteous, that makes one a new person.

Much love!
 

marks

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We are to daily crucify the flesh, daily pray and put on our spiritual armor, resist the devil and he will flee, resist temptation, trust in Him for where we are weak He is strong, seek Him daily....read the Word!
Just so!

Colossians 3:5-10
5) Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6) For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7) In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
8) But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
9) Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10) And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

"Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth."

Such a strange statement, "on the earth"? We are hid with Christ is God. We are to put to death our (literally) body parts that are on the earth.

We are new, in heaven, with Christ, to be revealed in glory, and we are to put to death the parts of us on this earth.

Much love!
 
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CharismaticLady

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No, just trying to make sense of your view.




You continue to avoid responding to my OP in the specific assertion I'm making.

The law has dominion as long as he lives. In Christ, we have died. Therefore the Law no longer has dominion.

And,

It is now no more I, but sin that lives in me. These are the words of Paul, and not an ancient Israelite.

Paul speaks of a change in identity, It was me doing evil, now it's not, it's sin that lives in me committing evil.

If this were speaking of when the Law came, then you are crediting Law with making that change. But the Law cannot make one righteous.

Justification and a new creation, that makes one righteous, that makes one a new person.

Much love!
Mark, I have responded to your OP. The problem is your premise is wrong, so you can't see it.
 

marks

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The sin is not dead, it is in control!!!!!

Not so.

Romans 7:25
25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Much love!
 

CharismaticLady

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Not so.

Romans 7:25
25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Much love!
There is your premise. You believe you are under the law.
 

marks

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Mark, I have responded to your OP. The problem is your premise is wrong, so you can't see it.
Actually you haven't.

You have not responded to the change noted by Paul.

It is now no more I, but sin that lives in me.

No more I. It was him, now it's not.

This is what you have not responded to.

What does it mean that Paul was the sinner, and now he's not, and instead, it is the sin that lives in him. This is the statement made in the passage.

Romans 7:17
17) Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Much love!
 

marks

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and the Thessalonians passage about the RESTRAINER is hard to be understood.
Just an aside . . .

We know all things work for good to those who love God . . . therefore, so long as we are in this world, God is holding back whatever evils that cannot be worked for our good.

Just a thought . . .

Much love!
 

CharismaticLady

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Actually you haven't.

You have not responded to the change noted by Paul.

It is now no more I, but sin that lives in me.

No more I. It was him, now it's not.

This is what you have not responded to.

What does it mean that Paul was the sinner, and now he's not, and instead, it is the sin that lives in him. This is the statement made in the passage.

Romans 7:17
17) Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Much love!
#94
 

marks

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No human being can renew their own mind. We cannot obtain the mind of Christ from anything we practice over time. Only by realizing our own sinfulness and complete weakness in our nature can we give up trying to be good little boys and girls and cry out to Jesus to fill us with His powerful Spirit and change our nature from the inside out. The first step is being completely honest with God. Not telling Him what we are going to do for Him, but telling Him we can't. Surrendering to God in complete humbleness and asking Him to come into us and do what we cannot do. Make us righteous.
I think that we participate in the renewing of the mind at all times that we practice righteousness. When we read His Word, meditate on it, when we pray, when we are trusting that we are truly in Him and He in us, when we are walking in love, this renews our mind. In all these things we see Jesus, and seeing Jesus is what makes us like Him.

Much love!
 

marks

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Paul at the end of his career knew of nothing that was against him.

1 Corinthians 4:3-5
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

True, he knew nothing against himself, but he didn't consider himself to be justified because of his opinion of himself, he recognized that Jesus is the true judge.

Much love!
 

marks

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There is your premise. You believe you are under the law.
This is not a response . . .

You have not responded to the change noted by Paul.

It is now no more I, but sin that lives in me.

No more I. It was him, now it's not.

This is what you have not responded to.

What does it mean that Paul was the sinner, and now he's not, and instead, it is the sin that lives in him. This is the statement made in the passage.

Romans 7:17
17) Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Much love!
 

CharismaticLady

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This is not a response . . .

You have not responded to the change noted by Paul.

It is now no more I, but sin that lives in me.

No more I. It was him, now it's not.

This is what you have not responded to.

What does it mean that Paul was the sinner, and now he's not, and instead, it is the sin that lives in him. This is the statement made in the passage.

Romans 7:17
17) Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Much love!

Yes, I have. Now listen carefully.

Old Covenant: Law is holy. Had to be kept by knowledge of the mind. But the human nature had sin in it that was in opposition to the law, so a constant struggle. Desire to sin was in control. I do what I don't want to do.

New Covenant: Jesus, gives Holy Spirit to kill the old nature of sin, and creates a new reborn nature that has no sin in it. So I am free from sin, and thus free from law. The righteous requirements from the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh (old sinful nature) but according to the Spirit (in new nature).

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ, has made Paul free from the law of SIN and death. Romans 8:2.

5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins (old nature), and in Him (new nature) there is no sin. 1 John 3:5

Figure out what Jesus is actually saying here:

32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?”

34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
 
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2nd Timothy Group

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New Covenant: Jesus, gives Holy Spirit to kill the old nature of sin, and creates a new reborn nature that has no sin in it. So I am free from sin, and thus free from law. The righteous requirements from the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh (old sinful nature) but according to the Spirit (in new nature).

And this is the Faith of Abraham . . . exactly. And it is THIS Faith that we are to possess.

Romans 4:12 NLT - 12 And Abraham is also the spiritual father of those who have been circumcised, but only if they have the same kind of faith Abraham had before he was circumcised.
Galatians 3:9, 14 NLT - 9 So all who put their faith in Christ share the same blessing Abraham received because of his faith. ... 14 Through Christ Jesus, God has blessed the Gentiles with the same blessing he promised to Abraham, so that we who are believers might receive the promised Holy Spirit through faith.
 
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