A Last Word Spoken With Love And Tears....

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Gideons300

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@Gideons300 There may be several that would come against you on this if they read what you wrote in #59. It won't me.

Give God the glory!
Amadeus, I always love hearing from you. I am actually quite surprised there has not been a lot of dissension on the ones previous to #59, lol. Maybe I am on ignore. I stated in the OP that I would not get into a 'saber rattling' with any on this final post. If I can encourage any I will answer, but if someone wants a fight, it solves nothing. One has to hunger and thirst to see what is being shared.

I suspect I will stick around just continually adding thoughts on this one post. Hopefully it will more resemble a blog of sorts, encouraging the hungry to believe the promises God has given us.... all of them... as well as heed the warnings, which are just as important.

God is opening eyes. I know you are praying and so appreciate them.

blessings,

Gids
 

Gideons300

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Personally I'm finding your words rather imprecise here.

Judged in what way exactly? Judged towards receiving eternal life?

And who says we will not be judged for works?

It seems to me you are confusing 'judgement of works' and 'rebirth in Christ'.

"He who lives and believe in me will never die" Do you believe?

Much love!
Thanks for writing Mark. As I have clearly stated, if someone is hungry to find out the how of true heart obedience, I will bend over backwards to see if I can help them. But as to debating what God has asked me to share, I choose to pass. I hope you understand.

blessings,

Gids
 

amadeus

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Amadeus, I always love hearing from you. I am actually quite surprised there has not been a lot of dissension on the ones previous to #59, lol. Maybe I am on ignore. I stated in the OP that I would not get into a 'saber rattling' with any on this final post. If I can encourage any I will answer, but if someone wants a fight, it solves nothing. One has to hunger and thirst to see what is being shared.

I suspect I will stick around just continually adding thoughts on this one post. Hopefully it will more resemble a blog of sorts, encouraging the hungry to believe the promises God has given us.... all of them... as well as heed the warnings, which are just as important.

God is opening eyes. I know you are praying and so appreciate them.

blessings,

Gids
I suspect that a number who might oppose you have not even read your posts. Too many here are more interested in winning their own little battles than in considering really where they might have missed their own way with God. A few will eventually read if your continue to update so that the thread comes before their eyes again. Then again of late new people are joining of some of those may also read.

Yes, I am praying that God will let some eyes see that have not seen!
 

amadeus

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Personally I'm finding your words rather imprecise here.

Judged in what way exactly? Judged towards receiving eternal life?

And who says we will not be judged for works?

It seems to me you are confusing 'judgement of works' and 'rebirth in Christ'.

"He who lives and believe in me will never die" Do you believe?

The one who is not reborn is headed for the lake of fire, and the one who has been reborn is not. Pure and simple.

Much love!
You have gone through this argument with others and stayed in your place. If you are correct, no harm done, but if @Gideons300 is correct, then it could be that the cost for you is more than you can afford to lose.
 

marks

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You have gone through this argument with others and stayed in your place. If you are correct, no harm done, but if @Gideons300 is correct, then it could be that the cost for you is more than you can afford to lose.
What saith the Word?

My interest is to teach God's truth. Imprecise and suggestive language is not very suitable for that, by what I've seen. But it is very suitable to mislead.


The harm done is when someone convinces a child of God that they are condemned or rejected, because of their own low opinion of their behavior. Rather than teaching everyone to keep their eyes on themselves to make sure their doing good enough to be saved, teach them to keep trusting Jesus regardless of their other ideas. A mind set on Jesus. That's what God wants from His children I think!

I teach salvation by grace through faith. Behavioral changes come after that it settled. If we gain life by faith, what to we cost ourselves by not holding to that faith?

We've discussed this before, I know we have different ideas. I count you my friend. You have more than demonstrated to me your good intent! But I will not sway from this position.

Much love!
 
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quietthinker

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The harm done is when someone convinces a child of God that they are condemned or rejected, because of their own low opinion of their behavior. Rather than teaching everyone to keep their eyes on themselves to make sure their doing good enough to be saved, teach them to keep trusting Jesus regardless of their other ideas. A mind set on Jesus. That's what God wants from His children I think!
The message that is being conveyed in Gideons post here is anything from 'teaching everyone to keep their eyes on themselves to make sure their doing good enough to be saved'
Asserting that this is the case muddies the waters and ultimately misrepresent the message.

God's children are called to seperate themselves from anything that defiles. They are not called to excuse themselves using a sophisticated process of self justification by calling it Grace.
 
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marks

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I guess what really blows my mind is such an "impassioned" plea that we reject the fulness of God's grace as some greasy slimey thing.

To be completely honest, even thinking about God's grace in such derogatory ways, even though I don't share this idea, yet it still give me a pause, a sense of dread, to so completely eschew the grace that God gives in saving us!

I realize this will be denied, not seen, and yet . . . to some, God's grace isn't enough.

Much love!
 
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marks

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God's children are called to seperate themselves from anything that defiles. They are not called to excuse themselves using a sophisticated process of self justification by calling it Grace.
Who excuses?

Who self justifies?

The one who justifies themself, at least how it looks to me, is the one who says,

"I'm doing the good works so I know I'm saved."

God's grace is real.

And our works that we think prove our salvation, if that's the way we are thinking, have the real potential to deceive us, as in, Lord! Lord! I did ALL those works!!

There is a false dichotomy being presented here. Can anyone but me see it?

Either we devote ourselves to proving our salvation through works, or we are sliming God's grace.

Rather, let us trust in God, that He saves us, that He sanctifies us.

Is there someone who would cheapen that?

Much love!
 

marks

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If someone has a sin in their life that hasn't been overcome, are you thinking it's because . . .

They don't want to overcome it enough . . .

They don't believe they can . . .

They are still in training . . . and haven't gotten there yet . . .

Something else?

Just wondering if anyone considers . . .

What happens when . . . God, who trains us, is in process of training us, but someone else comes along, looks from the outside, and declares, You are Greasy Gracer!! Blech! You still think you're being saved!! Greasy Grace!!!

Much love!
 

quietthinker

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If someone has a sin in their life that hasn't been overcome, are you thinking it's because . . .

They don't want to overcome it enough . . .

They don't believe they can . . .

They are still in training . . . and haven't gotten there yet . . .

Something else?

Just wondering if anyone considers . . .

What happens when . . . God, who trains us, is in process of training us, but someone else comes along, looks from the outside, and declares, You are Greasy Gracer!! Blech! You still think you're being saved!! Greasy Grace!!!

Much love!
What I think is besides the point marks. Gid's posts on this matter are definitive.
 
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Gideons300

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Excellent post Gid, excellent! ...it is evidence of the of the call 'come out of her my people'
Hello my friend from down under. Funny, but God has been dealing with me on that very verse. I have pondered a lot on what exactly that means.... what it should look like in our lives personally as well as corporately.

Personally, in truth, it is simply leaving the old carnal nature behind and clothing ourselves with our new natures by an act of faith in what Christ has told us. The old us is dead. Not dying every day. DEAD. BUT.... and rhis is huge. For it to profit us, that truth must be mixed with faith on our parts. This is the reckoning Paul spoke about....the one thing we must DO... and continue in doing.

Remember the verse that tells us "but it did not profit rhem, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.". Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner! This is THE core truth that is our crossing of the Jordan river from 'wilderness' people of God, overcome but kept, to 'promised land' people of God, overcomers driving out all the inhabitants of the land that do not belong there.

In the wilderness of unbelief, we may want to obey, but even with our best efforts, we will fail. But praise God, once we recognize how much we have let unbelief dictate to us what to accept as normal Christianity, and take God out of tge box of limitations we have placed upon Him, and let HIM be the potter, well, amazement will surely follow.

So what must we do to cross over Jordan and enter into our rest? We must come to the place where we truly HATE the old us, our worldliness, our lack of fruit, especially love, our secret wins, our self loving thoughts. We cross over by faith, but unless we see it, not as a nice arrow to be added to our Christian 'quiver of doctrines', but hunger and thirst for it as if we are starving or dying of thirst, real faith will be impossible. We must be 'all in'.

bless you, QT

Gids
 
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Gideons300

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I have said it before and yet, it bears repeating. If a man or woman is still caught in sin, living out their life as a captive of Romans 7, there are two options as to heart attitudes.

1) They love the Lord but hate their failure and weakness. God convicts and chastens them because He loves them and desires fellowship with them. That is what a good father does. Yet up til now, from the time the grievous wolves entered into the flock at Paul's death, few have found the key to walking in real palpable victory.

These have the same attitude as Paul did. They hate their sins and lack of fruit. They see themselves as wretched men longing for the free indeed Jesus clearly promised.

2) They like it there loving in Romans 7. They see it like "Well, if Paul couldn't overcome, who am I to try to do better than him. After all, we are all just sinners saved by grace. Right?" instead of trying to escape and love life victoriously in Romans 8, they decorate their prison cells with nice religious paraphanalia. They define freedom as freedom to sin with consequences. Not that they use it all the time of course, but they cannot imagine ever giving that freedom up.

So, when one sins, it is imperative to look at the intent of the heart. God sees it for sure. Rhe sin may outwardly look exactly the same, but inside, one is committed willfully with no desire or plans to ever stop. God still chastens, but because the heart is hardened, correction is never heeded. Repentance never follows. Danger does.

I pray this helps a bit.

Oh, one last thing. God has told me in no uncertain terms that those truly battling ain and self rule will.... WILL find relief. Their eyes will be opened to the truth of who they are, and what their birthright as new creatures actually entails.

I cannot make the same declaration about those content to remain willfully living as their own bosses, thinking Heaven is assured simply because of a one time prayer long ago.

blessings,

Gids
 
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Gideons300

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So, back to the question of how both James and Paul can both be correct, it is quote easy once one understands that when we put on our new nature by an act of faith, God promises to cause tht new natire to obey Him.

Therefore, Paul is correct that ur salvation is all by grace, through faith. James is just following that up by saying that if we are walking as we should in that faith, we WILL bring forth fruit. Our job is not to bear fruit. That is Christ's work.

What is our part? Easy. To make our tree good! And how is that done? Reckoning faith! Remember what I said in one of the first installments of this 'last' post, lol? We must finally dome into agreement with our God as to who we are, and who we no longer are. In our core, we ARE new. And as we believe it, that core, Christ in us, grows towards the surface. We do not worry about what has not yet been changed into His image. Rather, we acknowledge that He has made us.... past tense.... overcomers.

And praise God, as we fight his fight... our good fight of faith.... we are changed into His image from glory to glory.

Do not fret if you do not feel 'ready' to walk as an overcomer. Silly you, as if you can ever get ready enough! LOL. That is the very reason we come to Him when we have NO strength! And if you feel you do not have enough faith? Let me say this and I pray you receive it. Every one of us has been given a measure of faith. Exercise what you have, even if it is mustard seed size. You have just enough!

blessings to all,

Gids
 
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amadeus

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What saith the Word?

My interest is to teach God's truth. Imprecise and suggestive language is not very suitable for that, by what I've seen. But it is very suitable to mislead.

The harm done is when someone convinces a child of God that they are condemned or rejected, because of their own low opinion of their behavior. Rather than teaching everyone to keep their eyes on themselves to make sure their doing good enough to be saved, teach them to keep trusting Jesus regardless of their other ideas. A mind set on Jesus. That's what God wants from His children I think!

I teach salvation by grace through faith. Behavioral changes come after that it settled. If we gain life by faith, what to we cost ourselves by not holding to that faith?

We've discussed this before, I know we have different ideas. I count you my friend. You have more than demonstrated to me your good intent! But I will not sway from this position.

Much love!
Harmed? Children of God who sincerely love Him and seek Him will not be convinced that they are condemned and rejected. That would be a delusion.

"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled" Matt 5:6
When we have been filled with the righteousness of God, there is no room for delusion.

People receive and accept delusion because they do not love the Truth, which is not the same thing as knowing the Truth.

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" II Thess 2:10-11

We are able to love the Truth/Jesus without knowing Him completely. Consider that the Apostle Paul was still seeing through a glass darkly. Did he not love the Truth, which is Jesus!

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

Paul included himself in that statement with the pronoun, "we"! The "face to face" is to be accomplished "then"... that is, at a later time.
Paul was not deluded even though he did not yet have that "face to face" vision.

John speaks of the "then" here:

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

The "then" is when "we shall be like him"!
 

Gideons300

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We are told that God's Word is sharper than a two edged sword. A scalpel for the soul, to cut out deception while not harming the good. It is very precise, if believed for what it says, for God is not a liar. Amen?

God has promised our shields of faith WILL quench all the fiery arrows of the enemy.

He has assured us that He would not allow us to be tempted above our ability to resist and will actually cause us.....as new creatures.... to walk in full obedience.

He has delivered us rom the power of darkness and told us our birthright is to walk free indeed, and then defined what He meant by free indeed as free from committing sin.

If we cannot stand on these promises, we are left to our own devices as to how to resist temptation, and the end result will not be good. How can one count it all joy when he flls into diverse temptations if he does not have the assurance from God that Hecwill keep him from falling.

And if, when we examine ourselves whether we be in the faith, and after an honest assessment of our state, find that these promises are not only not being walked in, but actually not believed, is it not time to finally admit something is amiss in our understanding and seek our God with all of our hearts for Him to show us how to obey Him in all things, how to bear fruits we so lack, as He brings us in line with the glorious truths He has given us to stand on?

I pray we finally see our unbelief for what it is and step out in faith, for He is faithful who promised. Precisely!

blessings,

Gids
 
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marks

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Well, not quite.

If you look at your verse.......it says....>"not being mixed with faith"..
So, that means that this person, or those people, did not believe, so they are not born again.
You then describe them falsely as the "people of God".
In fact, they are not.
They are instead Christ Rejectors.

So, to teach that this verse, is the Believer, is beyond theological error.

What you've just taught, is about as false...... as a certain religious organization that Teaches that Mary bruised the serpents head, when it fact its her SEED that does it.
Somehow your quote from @ Gideons300 got my name on it . . . hoping you can fix that!

Much love!