Romans 8:19-23 KJV Style - With 101G

2nd Timothy Group · Feb 19, 2021

@101G

Sir, our objective with this Scripture set is to determine if the Curse applied to all of creation is also applied to humanity. Here it is!

Romans 8:18-23 KJV - 18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

So what I'd like to do (because I am soooo busy right now) is to offer one question at a time and then chat about it. What I don't want to do is get into reading a ton of Bible verses that counter ideas . . . unless they're all just amazing. It is important that I learn to ensure that my doctrine is correct, so in that sense, please don't hold back. I guess that what I'm saying is . . . let's keep this clean and concise. I think others who might read will be thankful.

So as it stands, I've got about 13 questions. Here we go . . .

18 "For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us."

So, in verse 18 above, we have human suffering mentioned, but Paul encourages his readers to think ahead of their Resurrected bodies. Would you agree with this? (Note: This idea is reiterated in verses 19 and 23.)

These sufferings . . . were they not the effect of the Curse that was given to creation?

Is it possible that saying that ground is cursed is another way of saying that all of the physical creation is cursed?

101G · Feb 19, 2021

2nd Timothy Group said:
@101G

Sir, our objective with this Scripture set is to determine if the Curse applied to all of creation is also applied to humanity. Here it is!

Romans 8:18-23 KJV - 18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

So what I'd like to do (because I am soooo busy right now) is to offer one question at a time and then chat about it. What I don't want to do is get into reading a ton of Bible verses that counter ideas . . . unless they're all just amazing. It is important that I learn to ensure that my doctrine is correct, so in that sense, please don't hold back. I guess that what I'm saying is . . . let's keep this clean and concise. I think others who might read will be thankful.

So as it stands, I've got about 13 questions. Here we go . . .

18 "For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us."

So, in verse 18 above, we have human suffering mentioned, but Paul encourages his readers to think ahead of their Resurrected bodies. Would you agree with this? (Note: This idea is reiterated in verses 19 and 23.)

These sufferings . . . were they not the effect of the Curse that was given to creation?

Is it possible that saying that ground is cursed is another way of saying that all of the physical creation is cursed?

GINOLJC, to all.
first thanks for the OP, second, "DECAY". just as with Adam body, "DECAY", the result without God who maintain everything. death, or ruine is the curse.... decay.
Death is not natural. it's an enemy. understand, this is why any, and everything goes ruined. Revelation 22:3 "And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:" BINGO.

Understand, all that man has come out of the ground... cars, Homes, appliances, and even drinking water, ect..... and cars break down, houses in need of repairs, and even us... death, natural, because we came out of the ground. and we will return to it.

so when the Lord returns and restore everything. then the end of the OLD and the NEW began.

next question.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

2nd Timothy Group · Feb 19, 2021

101G said:
GINOLJC, to all.
first thanks for the OP, second, "DECAY". just as with Adam's body, "DECAY", the result without God who maintains everything. death, or ruin is the curse.... decay.
Death is not natural. it's an enemy. understand, this is why any, and everything goes ruined. Revelation 22:3 "And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:" BINGO.

Understand, all that man has come out of the ground... cars, Homes, appliances, and even drinking water, ect..... and cars break down, houses in need of repairs, and even us... death, natural, because we came out of the ground. and we will return to it.

so when the Lord returns and restores everything. then the end of the OLD and the NEW began.

next question.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Sorry, but I didn't understand your reply pretty much at all. Here it is again . . .

18 "For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us."

So, in verse 18 above, we have human suffering mentioned, but Paul encourages his readers to think ahead of their Resurrected bodies. Would you agree with this? (Note: This idea is reiterated in verses 19 and 23.)

These sufferings . . . were they not the effect of the Curse that was given to creation?

Is it possible that saying that ground is cursed is another way of saying that all of the physical creation is cursed?

101G · Feb 19, 2021

2nd Timothy Group said:
Sorry, but I didn't understand your reply pretty much at all. Here it is again . . .

18 "For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us."

So, in verse 18 above, we have human suffering mentioned, but Paul encourages his readers to think ahead of their Resurrected bodies. Would you agree with this? (Note: This idea is reiterated in verses 19 and 23.)

These sufferings . . . were they not the effect of the Curse that was given to creation?

Is it possible that saying that ground is cursed is another way of saying that all of the physical creation is cursed?

So, in verse 18 above, we have human suffering mentioned. correct, but not only for our sake. John 15:11 "These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full."

but Paul encourages his readers to think ahead of their Resurrected bodies. true, but we wait in patience, understand, Patience is the ability to endure difficult circumstances. Patience may involve perseverance in the face of delay. listen, Romans 8:24 "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?"Romans 8:25 "But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it."Romans 8:26 "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."
now the apostle Peter, 2 Peter 1:5 "And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;" 2 Peter 1:6 "And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;" 2 Peter 1:7 "And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity."

These sufferings . . . were they not the effect of the Curse that was given to creation?
no, not all. all suffering is not the result of sin, some suffering are man made.
I hope that help, I went step by step.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

2nd Timothy Group · Feb 19, 2021

101G said:
So, in verse 18 above, we have human suffering mentioned. correct, but not only for our sake. John 15:11 "These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full."

but Paul encourages his readers to think ahead of their Resurrected bodies. true, but we wait in patience, understand, Patience is the ability to endure difficult circumstances. Patience may involve perseverance in the face of delay. listen, Romans 8:24 "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?"Romans 8:25 "But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it."Romans 8:26 "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."
now the apostle Peter, 2 Peter 1:5 "And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;" 2 Peter 1:6 "And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;" 2 Peter 1:7 "And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity."

These sufferings . . . were they not the effect of the Curse that was given to creation?
no, not all. all suffering is not the result of sin, some suffering are man-made.
I hope that helps, I went step by step.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

I'm sorry good sir, but I don't think that this is going to work. We're both on such opposite spectrums, we'll never get to the end.

Eternally Grateful · Feb 20, 2021

I think we see from Paul, who considered his own sufferings but a momentary light affliction, that his focu was eternity, and not his short time here on this earth, and he wanted those he loved (us) to see as he did, that these suffering we suffer today because of the curse, is but minimal, no matter how bad it gets, as compared to the eternal glory we will have, so we can endure these sufferings and not be brought down by them

101G · Feb 20, 2021

2nd Timothy Group said:
I'm sorry good sir, but I don't think that this is going to work. We're both on such opposite spectrums, we'll never get to the end.

as the Lord said, "Why callest thy me good? for there is only one that is good".
well if we never get to end, then it's on you, because I can't read your mind. but Eternally Grateful brought out a good point.

Eternally Grateful said:
I think we see from Paul, who considered his own sufferings but a momentary light affliction, that his focu was eternity, and not his short time here on this earth, and he wanted those he loved (us) to see as he did, that these suffering we suffer today because of the curse, is but minimal, no matter how bad it gets, as compared to the eternal glory we will have, so we can endure these sufferings and not be brought down by them

GINOLJC, to all,
Correct, and we are to wait for this life in patience, which is the "HOPE", by Faith. and while waiting, we're to be about our Father's business.

we're not to center in, or focus on our suffering, for we're blessed. we are to relieve the suffering of others. "for the poor you have with you always". we are to stand for justice, correct wrongs if possiable.... (non violently). we have work to do. GREATER, is he in us than he that is in the World. as Abraham and many of the OT and now NT saints look for a city, a building not made with human hands but eternal, we look.

now, if there is something else, @2nd Timothy Group, that you're trying to get at in, "suffering", maybe I'm missing your concerns. sorry. but as a the children of God, we are blessed, suffering for us is overcomed, and by the renewing of our minds, which tells us that suffering is a good thing in christ Jesus, hence, we are joyous. it make one in God, "STRONGER".

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

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Romans 8:19-23 KJV Style - With 101G

2nd Timothy Group

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