Who founded your church?

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theefaith

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Includes peter

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
 

amigo de christo

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Yup - this happened at the Protestant Revolt some 500 years ago - and has been happening ever since . . .
It happened long before that my friend . ROME was born , that was when the massive lie began .
And yes there were errors too on the part of some of them reformers . but Rome had to be fled . as she does now .
My advice , let us learn the true biblical JESUS for ourselves . learn the doctrine of the bible well
and get built up in the truth so that ROME and many protestant churches can no longer decieve us .
 

theefaith

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It happened long before that my friend . ROME was born , that was when the massive lie began .
And yes there were errors too on the part of some of them reformers . but Rome had to be fled . as she does now .
My advice , let us learn the true biblical JESUS for ourselves . learn the doctrine of the bible well
and get built up in the truth so that ROME and many protestant churches can no longer decieve us .

Christ founded the church and it is Roman
In the days of these Roman kings dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
Lk 1:32-33 his kingdom is eternal

catholic

Major covenants!

Adam
(Marriage covenant)

Noah
(Family covenant)

Abraham
(Tribal covenant)

Moses:
(National covenant)

Jesus Christ:
(Universal covenant)

New and eternal covenant founded by Jesus Christ! Matt 16:18

Universal (Catholic)
World universal

Lk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. ( catholic universal)

Lk 2:31 prepared before the face of all (catholic) people

Jn 1:29 lamb of God who takes way the sins of the world

Jn 3:16 for God so loved the world

1 Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Tim 2:5 one mediator

Jn 10:16 One new covenant church
 
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DNB

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So, your entire point here is that when Jesus was resurrected - he retained the exact SAME corruptible body as before?
That He was NOT ressurected in His glorified state?
What hope, then, do YOU have for the Resurrection??

This is an essential doctrine of the christian faith.
The Bible speaks of the BODILY resurrection of the dead (1 Thess. 4:16-17).

1 Cor. 15:13–18
“If the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised. If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished”.

Yours is a heresy pof gargantuan proportions . . .
My point is, his glorified state is not of flesh and blood, obviously.
 
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Enoch111

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Yup - this happened at the Protestant Revolt some 500 years ago
Had the Protestant *revolt* happened over1,000 years ago, it would have been more beneficial to all. Keeping in mind that these former Catholics only wanted to reform their church, had the Catholic hierarchy recognized their need for reform, then everything would have worked out nicely. But since they mounted a Counter-Reformation, it was clear that they simply wanted to entrench their false beliefs more firmly. Hence the Council of Trent.
 

DNB

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He creates a false dichotomy by stating that there are only two options - Eucharist is of Jesus, or the entirety Christendom has been worshipping a false god. Transubstantiation, or Consubstantiation do not constitute the full scope of Christian doctrine on a sacrament. There is also Reformed memorial.
He proved his point by creating a false predicate - the devil would only attack a true Christian doctrine, and he would never undermine his own devices. What the devil's reprobate cohorts are up to, is not necessarily by his own approbation. Just as much as not all sincere Christians abide by God's desires correctly. Plus, there is merit to offend something that the mass populace follow, whether it's misguided on the masses part, or not. To blaspheme Christmas day would also ruffle many Christian's feathers, despite it being a pagan holiday on every level.
 

Marymog

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Egad.

Horrible(your post above), post Apostolic commentary from your celebrity RCC founders that Paul warned the saints of....


29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Hey Truther,

So let me see if I have your theory correct. In post #2101 @BreadOfLife showed you what the men of The Church have taught about infant baptism from the 2nd century thru the 5th century. That teaching is in line with what Scripture says (entire households were baptized and baptism is the New Covenant and replaces the old covenant of circumcision) and add to that what Jesus said in Matthew 19:14.

Fast forward 1,500 years when there was a revolt from The Church when some men started teaching that baptism wasn't necessary at all, some taught it was necessary since it's commanded by Jesus but it doesn't do anything, etc etc multiple teachings about baptism from multiple men started 500 years ago.

Your theory is that the 2,000 year old consistent teaching of The Church is when "grievous wolves" entered The Church and heresy entered The Church thru 'perverse speaking?? But the 500 year old inconsistent, and multiple teachings on baptism of your revolutionaries was blessed by God?

Yup, that makes complete sense. :rolleyes: Who is your teacher? I would like them to start teaching me.....

Keeping it real....Mary
 
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theefaith

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Had the Protestant *revolt* happened over1,000 years ago, it would have been more beneficial to all. Keeping in mind that these former Catholics only wanted to reform their church, had the Catholic hierarchy recognized their need for reform, then everything would have worked out nicely. But since they mounted a Counter-Reformation, it was clear that they simply wanted to entrench their false beliefs more firmly. Hence the Council of Trent.

the church and doctrine cannot be reformed! God did not err in founding the church His spotless bride or in revelation of the truth jn 8:32 jn 13:20 jn 20:21-23
 

Behold

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The Apostles LIVED with Jesus - who TAUGHT them to Baptize.
. .

Paul told you that Jesus did not send him to water baptize, and Paul wrote most of the New Testament, and all the Church Doctrine.
Paul teaches you that FAITH is accepted as Righteousness, exactly as "Abraham believed God and it was accepted by God as RIGHTEOUSNESS".
Did you not notice that Abraham was not water baptized?
Time top NOTICE IT !!!!
Dont you agree?
Wake UP.

So, ad that to Peter, and the 120, and the dying Thief on the Cross as = NOT WATER BAPTIZED, and all BORN AGAIN.
Got that?
Be sure you do.

= The water cult doctrine of devil's that is created by their demonically inspire bible the : Douay-Rheims, created the water cults.
If you find yourself trapped in it, and defined by it, then GET OUT OF IT.
Be smart.
Leave the deception.

Now read carefully...

Peter and the 120 were not water baptized, and they still "spoke with tongues " and were born again, = Acts chapter 2.
So, the water cult doctrine of devils, that says that WATER Baptism causes "the infilling of the spirit" and that we are "born again by water", didnt happen to Peter or the 120.
 

Illuminator

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Had the Protestant *revolt* happened over1,000 years ago, it would have been more beneficial to all. Keeping in mind that these former Catholics only wanted to reform their church, had the Catholic hierarchy recognized their need for reform, then everything would have worked out nicely. But since they mounted a Counter-Reformation, it was clear that they simply wanted to entrench their false beliefs more firmly. Hence the Council of Trent.
The Church is in constant reform, that's why we have councils.
Francis Beckwith spent 32 years in the evangelical world, serving as president of the Evangelical Theological Society. He was asked, "What could Catholics learn from evangelicals? His answer:

In terms of expository preaching, as well as teaching the laity, Protestant evangelicals are without peers in the Christian world.

For instance, it is not unusual for evangelical churches to host major conferences on theological issues in which leading scholars address lay audiences in order to equip them to share their faith with their neighbors, friends, etc. Works by evangelical philosophers and theologians such as [J.P.] Moreland, [Paul] Copan, and William Lane Craig, should be in the library of any serious Catholic who wants to be equipped to respond to contemporary challenges to the Christian faith.

* * *
Then I read the Council of Trent, which some Protestant friends had suggested I do. What I found was shocking. I found a document that had been nearly universally misrepresented by many Protestants, including some friends.

I do not believe, however, that the misrepresentation is the result of purposeful deception. But rather, it is the result of reading Trent with Protestant assumptions and without a charitable disposition.

For example, Trent talks about the four causes of justification, which correspond somewhat to Aristotle’s four causes. None of these causes is the work of the individual Christian. For, according to Trent, God’s grace does all the work. However, Trent does condemn “faith alone,” but what it means is mere intellectual assent without allowing God’s grace to be manifested in one’s actions and communion with the Church. This is why Trent also condemns justification by works.

I am convinced that the typical “Council of Trent” rant found on anti-Catholic websites is the Protestant equivalent of the secular urban legend that everyone prior to Columbus believed in a flat earth.
Francis Beckwith Interview – Jimmy Akin

 
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Illuminator

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it was clear that they simply wanted to entrench their false beliefs more firmly. Hence the Council of Trent.
Council of Trent (1545-63): Chapter 5, Decree on Justification:

. . . Man . . . is not able, by his own free-will, without the grace of God, to move himself unto justice in His sight.

Canon I on Justification:

If anyone saith that man may be justified before God by his own works, whether done through the teaching of human nature or that of the law, without the grace of God through Jesus Christ; let him be anathema.

Vatican II reformulated Trent that is more conciliatory, but the anti-Catholic is too entrenched in outdated hostilities and distorted caricatures.
Catholic Merit vs. Distorted Caricatures (James McCarthy)
 

Truther

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Hey Truther,

So let me see if I have your theory correct. In post #2101 @BreadOfLife showed you what the men of The Church have taught about infant baptism from the 2nd century thru the 5th century. That teaching is in line with what Scripture says (entire households were baptized and baptism is the New Covenant and replaces the old covenant of circumcision) and add to that what Jesus said in Matthew 19:14.

Fast forward 1,500 years when there was a revolt from The Church when some men started teaching that baptism wasn't necessary at all, some taught it was necessary since it's commanded by Jesus but it doesn't do anything, etc etc multiple teachings about baptism from multiple men started 500 years ago.

Your theory is that the 2,000 year old consistent teaching of The Church is when "grievous wolves" entered The Church and heresy entered The Church thru 'perverse speaking?? But the 500 year old inconsistent, and multiple teachings on baptism of your revolutionaries was blessed by God?

Yup, that makes complete sense. :rolleyes: Who is your teacher? I would like them to start teaching me.....

Keeping it real....Mary
Great observation.

This is why we must abandon commentary and get back to sola scriptura.

Jesus must become our sole Shepherd and we must hear His voice only.

The wolves are defined as false shepherds, which is the RCC and her protestant daughters.
 

Marymog

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Great observation.

This is why we must abandon commentary and get back to sola scriptura.

Jesus must become our sole Shepherd and we must hear His voice only.

The wolves are defined as false shepherds, which is the RCC and her protestant daughters.
Hold on....Hold on. Abandon commentary???? Which I can probably safely predict you mean interpretation????

I am willing to bet if I checked the last 100-200 post from you on this forum if I could find “commentary” on scripture from you!!! I will bet you 1 week of silence (no posting) on this forum. If I can’t find any “commentary” from you I will be silent for one week! Deal?
 

BreadOfLife

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Egad.
Horrible(your post above), post Apostolic commentary from your celebrity RCC founders that Paul warned the saints of....
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
And according to YOUR moronic logic - after the Apostles died, the Chgurch disappeared - except for a tiny "remnant" - then reappeared in the 16th century.

Talk about man-made fairy tales . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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So, since the baby is inside the mother, the baby is automatically baptized with the mother's baptism for the remission of their sins?, or, does God want you to at least wait until it is barely born to teach it Acts 2:38?

Also, do you make disciples of all nations of infants, baptizing them?
Like I told you before - they are two completely distinct individuals. The fact that you're ignorant about this lends credence to the idea that you are ignorant about many other things.

STUDY your Bible, dude . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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Truther is not a baptism denier, but a baptism insister.
Truther just teaches that baptism is for consenting individual, not resisting newborns.
The RCC teaches the unrepented and unwilling receive remission of sins, no matter how hard they cry or cannot understand.
RCC brethren do not know or remember when they were "saved".
Most cannot remember anything prior to 4 years old for that matter.
They must asked their parents, who tell them they were "bawling and kicking" as the man in the robe doused them with dirty, cold water.
Poor kids. Life's unfair right out of the womb.
Funny though, that Truther can't point to a verse that says Baptism should be withheld from children.

Now that's funny . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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YOU don't think that they were Baptized because you're a Sola Scripturist
NO if one is sola scripturist , they would know the scriptures my friend . As i do love those holy words .
AND THEM words , which JESUS said , included BEING BAPTIZED . so no you are wrong on that note .
A true lover the the scriptures , would Love ALL the scriptures and not the twisted views of men .
SO at least lets not call this person a sola scripturist . cause it just aint so . IF they did love the scrips
THEY would love ALL the scrips . which , JESUS did say BAPTIZE THEM and teach them to do ALL THINGS i have commanded .
Ummmmm, not sure where you're going with this rant - but we were discussing whther or not the Apostles had been Baptized.
Please stick to the topic of the cponversation - or move out of the way . . .