Chart comparing Christianity to different religions

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Michiah-Imla

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If you tie that in to John 8:24 you can be certain that Jesus is there making the claim that belief in His Deity is essential to salvation as a doctrine.

No.

John 8:58 is simply showing Christ’s everlasting status. No mention of conditions of belief there.

And where the condition is stated at John 8:24 it is referring to his Messiahship. You are tying the two together in error.
 

justbyfaith

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I believe that you are mistaken.

Is it really something that you want to gamble on/about?
 

Michiah-Imla

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Is it really something that you want to gamble on/about?

Are you going to ignore the significance of verse 12?!

Verse 12: Jesus states that he is the light of the world.

Verse 24: Jesus states that if you do not believe that he is who he said he was (in verse 12) you shall die in your sins.

It is quite easy to see this.

There’s no gamble my friend.

Gambling involves uncertainty; there is certainty out of scripture for what I believe; there’s is uncertainty and assumptions in what you believe.
 

justbyfaith

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Did you read 1 John 1:5 as concerning the fact that Jesus is the light of the world?

It is evidence of if not proof of the fact that Jesus is the Lord (God) and/or that He is referring to His Deity in John 8:24.
 

Jane_Doe22

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I think knowing a little bit helps in evangelism purposes, as well as helping with not being deceived. I have to blow it up on my phone, but looks pretty detailed. Good guide. There was a really good book I read in the past that went into detail on different religions from a Christian view. It was really good. Ill have to try and look it up.

Christianity, Sects and Cults - Comparison Chart
I’m a late to the party here, but I’m going to speak out against this type of an approach. If you want to know what a person/group believes, go ask them directly instead of third party sources.

Also, if you want to know what you believe, then ask yourself and develop your beliefs (scripture study and prayer being key here). That’s how you develop a strong testimony and hence are best at working with others and explaining your beliefs to them.
 

Michiah-Imla

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It is evidence of if not proof of the fact that Jesus is the Lord (God) and/or that He is referring to His Deity in John 8:24.

I feel like we’re going around in circles here.

Bottom line:

Jesus’ deity is implied in scripture (I’m not disputing this point).

But there is no scripture that supports your assertion that belief of Christ’s deity is required for salvation. You are not properly understanding John 8:24 based on the context of John 8:12.

Regarding 1 John 1:5; God is light.

But Jesus is the light of the world.
 

justbyfaith

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I feel like we’re going around in circles here.

Bottom line:

Jesus’ deity is implied in scripture (I’m not disputing this point).

But there is no scripture that supports your assertion that belief of Christ’s deity is required for salvation. You are not properly understanding John 8:24 based on the context of John 8:12.

Regarding 1 John 1:5; God is light.

But Jesus is the light of the world.
I just think it is a gamble to bank on the fact that John 8:24 might not be declaring that belief in the doctrine of Christ's Deity is an essential for salvation.

Have you ever heard of Paschal's Wager?

If I am wrong, I lose nothing for believing in Christ's Deity. If you are wrong and choose not to believe in Christ's Deity, you lose everything.

If I am right, I gain everything by believing in Christ's Deity. But if you are right, you gain nothing except that you have escaped hell by the skin of your teeth; in that you gambled and won.

But if you lose the bet, it is an eternity in hell for you if you fail to believe in the Deity of Jesus Christ.
 
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Mayflower

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I’m a late to the party here, but I’m going to speak out against this type of an approach. If you want to know what a person/group believes, go ask them directly instead of third party sources.

Also, if you want to know what you believe, then ask yourself and develop your beliefs (scripture study and prayer being key here). That’s how you develop a strong testimony and hence are best at working with others and explaining your beliefs to them.

I forgot about this thread till you tagged me. Lol. Ill have to catch up later tonight after work/church. I think third party sources and in person are important. Not everyone in the church believes the same way.
 

Michiah-Imla

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I just think it is a gamble to bank on the fact that John 8:24 might not be declaring that belief in the doctrine of Christ's Deity is an essential for salvation.

If condition for salvation hinged on believing that Jesus is God, there would be at least one clear scripture explaining this. But there aren’t any. God is not hiding the godnews of salvation in ambiguity my friend. And it certainly must not be found in assumptions.
 

justbyfaith

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If condition for salvation hinged on believing that Jesus is God, there would be at least one clear scripture explaining this. But there aren’t any. God is not hiding the godnews of salvation in ambiguity my friend. And it certainly must not be found in assumptions.
I think that you are in denial of what John 8:24 is really saying to all of us.

It is pretty clear to me, that that verse is saying that belief in the doctrine of Christ's Deity is essential for salvation.

But I am not going to argue with you any further.

If you want to argue about this, you are going to have to take it up with the Lord.
 

Michiah-Imla

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that verse is saying that belief in the doctrine of Christ's Deity is essential for salvation.

John 8:24 is not saying that belief in Christ’s deity is essential for salvation.

That’s what you are saying.

What did the Father reveal to Peter?

That Jesus was the Christ.

Matthew 16:15-17 KJV
...whom say ye that I am? [16] And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. [17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Why didn’t the Father reveal to Peter that Jesus was God himself? Because this has nothing to do with salvation, that’s why (or, that it is even something to be concerned with). And also, no where else in scripture is belief in Jesus’s deity mentioned as a requirement for salvation.

The only thing that condemns one in regards to the person of Christ in scripture is denying that Jesus is the Christ:

1 John 2:22 KJV
[22] Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Why do you insist on loading men with burdens not prescribed in the Bible?
 

Jane_Doe22

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I forgot about this thread till you tagged me. Lol. Ill have to catch up later tonight after work/church. I think third party sources and in person are important. Not everyone in the church believes the same way.
Obviously people aren't clones of one another. :)

My point is that if I want to understand what Catholics* in general believe, then I should read/attend "A What Do Catholic believe" course taught by Catholics. Ask an actual Catholic person what they believe, why, and how it affects their lives. Put some actual faces and names to things rather than impersonal denomination label.

Going to ask anyone besides a Catholic means you're going to get their biased spin interpretation on things--no matter how transparent and honest the person's trying to be, they're just not a first-hand source. And to be honest, a lot of third party sources are driven by an agenda and extremely biased.

*Same with any other group.
 

justbyfaith

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John 8:24 is not saying that belief in Christ’s deity is essential for salvation.

That’s what you are saying.

What did the Father reveal to Peter?

That Jesus was the Christ.

Matthew 16:15-17 KJV
...whom say ye that I am? [16] And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. [17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Why didn’t the Father reveal to Peter that Jesus was God himself? Because this has nothing to do with salvation, that’s why (or, that it is even something to be concerned with). And also, no where else in scripture is belief in Jesus’s deity mentioned as a requirement for salvation.

The only thing that condemns one in regards to the person of Christ in scripture is denying that Jesus is the Christ:

1 John 2:22 KJV
[22] Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Why do you insist on loading men with burdens not prescribed in the Bible?
Not going to argue with you, friend.

Your argument is with the Lord.
 

justbyfaith

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Proverbs 21:30 KJV
There is no wisdom nor understanding nor counsel against the Lord.

I’m not arguing with the Lord.

I’m trying to help a brother out of the error of his way.
Again, I am not going to argue with you.

Your argument is with the Lord.
 

Michiah-Imla

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Again, I am not going to argue with you.

Your argument is with the Lord.

As I go along in my daily Bible reading I can’t help but wonder how some Christians end up with strange and foreign doctrines.

2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

You should really consider why this passage does not say:

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that God is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

I mean, This would be a prime spot for scripture to magnify the importance of Christ’s divinity if it was as crucial to a saints faithful walk in the faith as you make it out to be...
 

Michiah-Imla

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The gnostics whom John was dealing with denied the humanity of Jesus.

John was not dealing with anyone.

He was inspired by the Holy Spirit to provide us timeless doctrine.

2 Peter 1:21 KJV
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.