Calvinism vs. Arminianism

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2019
4,618
1,481
113
Somewhere in the USA
reformedtruths.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I disagree...the world means everyone, everybody, every individual, all of us and you.
Based on what?
I disagree..."God desires that all sinners be saved." We are all sinners....welcome to the proud crowd.
Does not matter that you disagree, the context determines the meaning, not what you think.

Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Luke 5:32 “I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.”

Mark 2:17 "And hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick; I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
None of those speak of all individuals.

You is all, you all, we all, them all, others, the world, the guy next door...lol
Then you just ignore context.


I'm not going to continue. If you want to butcher Scripture that is on your own conscience. But context matters.
 

Grailhunter

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2019
11,082
5,276
113
66
FARMINGTON
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Based on what?

Does not matter that you disagree, the context determines the meaning, not what you think.


None of those speak of all individuals.


Then you just ignore context.


I'm not going to continue. If you want to butcher Scripture that is on your own conscience. But context matters.


I disagree...the world means everyone, everybody, every individual, all of us and you.
Based on what? Based on who exist in the world....who's feet are planted on the ground in this world...now if the scripture was referring to the moon...then it would be a different thing.

I disagree..."God desires that all sinners be saved." We are all sinners....welcome to the proud crowd.
Does not matter that you disagree, the context determines the meaning, not what you think. I disagree.


Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Luke 5:32 “I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.”

Mark 2:17 "And hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick; I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
None of those speak of all individuals. I disagree. Are they collative sinners....a sinners club....orchestra.


You is all, you all, we all, them all, others, the world, the guy next door...lol
Then you just ignore context. You are ignoring the context.


I'm not going to continue. If you want to butcher Scripture that is on your own conscience. But context matters.

I have already explained this...playing dumb is not helping you any.
I am not even curious as to what you think the context is....
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2019
4,618
1,481
113
Somewhere in the USA
reformedtruths.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States

I disagree...the world means everyone, everybody, every individual, all of us and you.
Based on what? Based on who exist in the world....who's feet are planted on the ground in this world...now if the scripture was referring to the moon...then it would be a different thing.

I disagree..."God desires that all sinners be saved." We are all sinners....welcome to the proud crowd.
Does not matter that you disagree, the context determines the meaning, not what you think. I disagree.


Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Luke 5:32 “I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.”

Mark 2:17 "And hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick; I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
None of those speak of all individuals. I disagree. Are they collative sinners....a sinners club....orchestra.


You is all, you all, we all, them all, others, the world, the guy next door...lol
Then you just ignore context. You are ignoring the context.


I'm not going to continue. If you want to butcher Scripture that is on your own conscience. But context matters.

I have already explained this...playing dumb is not helping you any.
I am not even curious as to what you think the context is....
I'm not playing dumb, nor am I ignoring context.

By the way: If a commentator for the World Series were to say "The eyes of the whole world are on this moment." Does he mean every individual? No, that is nonsense. You are forcing an interpretation onto the text that does not fit the text. John 3:16 does not deal with all individuals. That is your eisegesis.
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Luke 5:32 “I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.”

Mark 2:17 "And hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick; I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

None of those speak of all individuals.

All are sinners (Romans 3:23).
 

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
12,502
3,695
113
69
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This theology...on how many levels is it wrong and how many level is it blasphemous?
The Monster Puppet Master God makes as much sense as the great spaghetti monster god.
Those that are saved or damned are chosen before Creation.
So what is the purpose of Judgment Day?
No good means anything! Faith, love, belief, compassion, kindness, good deeds, prayer, grace, forgiveness, church attendance is of no merit for the individual because God has forced them.
Alternatively all murder, abortion, all forms of evil, all the horrible things that have happened on earth, is all the design of God. None of it is their fault being under the control of the great Puppet Monster. So all evil is by God's direction. The fault of no person but they are mercilessly damned to hell for what God did.
How does He choose? Dartboard?
People damned before they are born is nothing but an evil and monstrous belief.
It is an evil character that can read the good Word of God and pick that out of it.
Nazi-ism...the elect, the elite, the chosen is a concept that comes from the worst of people that ever lived.
It sets up a mind set that is absolutely warped.


View attachment 13593


1. Well your title Puppet Master is your creation but that is not God!

2. Wrong! Every by nature is born condemned we are born fallen creatures and it is only a matter of time before we demonstrate that reality.

3. To prove god is just!

4. All good works have merit. I cannot control how you misquote and misunderstand Scripture. The unsaved do not do those things for the glory of God to begin with, only those given a new nature can do them with a true heart.

5. Wrong again! God did not design evil, but has allowed it to play itself out for His reasons. Every is mercilessly damned to hell in and of themselves. To go to hell, one has to do ...Absolutely NOthing! We are born condemned. No all evil is not at Gods direction, but by Gods permission.

6. He chooses on the basis of the counsel of His own will. YOu and I do not get to be pat of that counsel. YOu need to accept teh fact God is absdolute sovereign pof the Universe and we are puffs of insignificant dust compared to HIm.

7. People damned is the bible whether you like it or not!

8. No it is a person who seeks the truth. If you wish I can show you. Jesus said unless someone is bron again they cannot see the kingdom of God! what do you think that means? Every one is lost until they are born again! How you can't see that is a mystery.

9. Nazism is from the evil of men. Teh elfct and foreknown ad predestined was how God saves people according to HIs Word Romans 9 makes that clear.

10. It is warped only in your mind, but not according to SCripture.
 

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
12,502
3,695
113
69
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So you are teaching that Jesus didnt die for everyone?
And next you'll be teaching that God chooses some for hell.
And to top it off, you'll tell us that God created Evil.

1. Scripture clearly shows that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world! that is why there is no other means of salvation other than trusting in the death and resurrection of Jesus.

2. No all by nature are already condemned to hell. that is the false Armenian accusation of double predestination which is not true.

3. Well god created Satan perfect and adam and Eve perfect, all teh while knowing they would do evil. By allowing them to fail and sin and rebel, He did somehow have a part in evil Evein in Isaiah God is quoted a ssaying He created evil for its purpose. Why He allowed it when He could have prevented it is way beyong mans pay grade, we are to trust He knows what He is doing for we are too inferior to understand the whole picture.
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
2. No all by nature are already condemned to hell. that is the false Armenian accusation of double predestination which is not true.

Double predestination is actually biblical.

Jde 1:3, Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jde 1:4, For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
 

Heart2Soul

Spiritual Warrior
Staff member
May 10, 2018
9,863
14,508
113
65
Tulsa
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
1. Well your title Puppet Master is your creation but that is not God!

2. Wrong! Every by nature is born condemned we are born fallen creatures and it is only a matter of time before we demonstrate that reality.

3. To prove god is just!

4. All good works have merit. I cannot control how you misquote and misunderstand Scripture. The unsaved do not do those things for the glory of God to begin with, only those given a new nature can do them with a true heart.

5. Wrong again! God did not design evil, but has allowed it to play itself out for His reasons. Every is mercilessly damned to hell in and of themselves. To go to hell, one has to do ...Absolutely NOthing! We are born condemned. No all evil is not at Gods direction, but by Gods permission.

6. He chooses on the basis of the counsel of His own will. YOu and I do not get to be pat of that counsel. YOu need to accept teh fact God is absdolute sovereign pof the Universe and we are puffs of insignificant dust compared to HIm.

7. People damned is the bible whether you like it or not!

8. No it is a person who seeks the truth. If you wish I can show you. Jesus said unless someone is bron again they cannot see the kingdom of God! what do you think that means? Every one is lost until they are born again! How you can't see that is a mystery.

9. Nazism is from the evil of men. Teh elfct and foreknown ad predestined was how God saves people according to HIs Word Romans 9 makes that clear.

10. It is warped only in your mind, but not according to SCripture.
What you are teaching here is not in line with the CB's Statement of Faith
and should not be understood by other members as such....what you are teaching is unorthodox....IMHO
Forums>Community Welcome Center>
Community Announcements
Watch ForumSelected Threads: 0
12345612Next >
TITLE
LAST MESSAGE ↓

  1. New Features & Tools On Our New Software
    Brent W ... 2

    Replies:

    25
    Jun 13, 2019

  2. Christianity Board Forum Rules
    HammerStone

    Replies:

    2
    Aug 10, 2018

  3. Christianity Board Statement of Faith
    HammerStone

    Replies:

    1
    Mar 1, 2017

  4. Christianity Board Mission Statement
    TravisT

    Replies:

    0
    Apr 11, 2016
 

Grailhunter

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2019
11,082
5,276
113
66
FARMINGTON
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I'm not playing dumb, nor am I ignoring context.

By the way: If a commentator for the World Series were to say "The eyes of the whole world are on this moment." Does he mean every individual? No, that is nonsense. You are forcing an interpretation onto the text that does not fit the text. John 3:16 does not deal with all individuals. That is your eisegesis.

By the way: If a commentator for the World Series were to say "The eyes of the whole world are on this moment." Does he mean every individual?
Nope....if we have any sport scriptures please let me know....But if we are going to wander off into other contexts....I am game...If a news commentator said, This meteor that is headed our way will split the planet in two and will affect the whole world, which includes everyone and everything. God is more powerful than a meteor. So when God says the whole world, He means the whole world.

No, that is nonsense. You are forcing an interpretation onto the text that does not fit the text. John 3:16 does not deal with all individuals. That is your eisegesis.
Disagree, most of the verses I gave you are talking about the whole world and all that are in it.
Initially the affects of Christianity was mostly seen in the Middle East...but God's intent was for it spread to the whole world. Christianity was never meant to be selective. In fact I will dare say that the elitist view is anti-Christian. And again history proves that these people are seriously messed up!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

Grailhunter

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2019
11,082
5,276
113
66
FARMINGTON
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
1. Well your title Puppet Master is your creation but that is not God!

2. Wrong! Every by nature is born condemned we are born fallen creatures and it is only a matter of time before we demonstrate that reality.

3. To prove god is just!

4. All good works have merit. I cannot control how you misquote and misunderstand Scripture. The unsaved do not do those things for the glory of God to begin with, only those given a new nature can do them with a true heart.

5. Wrong again! God did not design evil, but has allowed it to play itself out for His reasons. Every is mercilessly damned to hell in and of themselves. To go to hell, one has to do ...Absolutely NOthing! We are born condemned. No all evil is not at Gods direction, but by Gods permission.

6. He chooses on the basis of the counsel of His own will. YOu and I do not get to be pat of that counsel. YOu need to accept teh fact God is absdolute sovereign pof the Universe and we are puffs of insignificant dust compared to HIm.

7. People damned is the bible whether you like it or not!

8. No it is a person who seeks the truth. If you wish I can show you. Jesus said unless someone is bron again they cannot see the kingdom of God! what do you think that means? Every one is lost until they are born again! How you can't see that is a mystery.

9. Nazism is from the evil of men. Teh elfct and foreknown ad predestined was how God saves people according to HIs Word Romans 9 makes that clear.

10. It is warped only in your mind, but not according to SCripture.

Oh! You think that the evils of Calvinism are not known....
You think it is just my opinion?
Where do you think these come from?

artworks-000394576233-elrfrm-t500x500.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2019
4,618
1,481
113
Somewhere in the USA
reformedtruths.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
By the way: If a commentator for the World Series were to say "The eyes of the whole world are on this moment." Does he mean every individual?
Nope....if we have any sport scriptures please let me know....But if we are going to wander off into other contexts....I am game...If a news commentator said, This meteor that is headed our way will split the planet in two and will affect the whole world, which includes everyone and everything. God is more powerful than a meteor. So when God says the whole world, He means the whole world.

No, that is nonsense. You are forcing an interpretation onto the text that does not fit the text. John 3:16 does not deal with all individuals. That is your eisegesis.
Disagree, most of the verses I gave you are talking about the whole world and all that are in it.
Initially the affects of Christianity was mostly seen in the Middle East...but God's intent was for it spread to the whole world. Christianity was never meant to be selective. In fact I will dare say that the elitist view is anti-Christian. And again history proves that these people are seriously messed up!
No they are not talking about individuals. Where and in what context does world mean individual people? You are reading that into the text.
 

Grailhunter

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2019
11,082
5,276
113
66
FARMINGTON
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Except the word kosmos doesn't mean people and definitely doesn't mean individual people. In Genesis 6, God said he had decided to make an end to all flesh. Yet that did not mean every individual did it? Noah and his family were spared.
Oh no! You got me there! OH OH wait!...WAIT! a minute...Au contraire mon frère!
κόσμος = world, people, cosmos, universe

end of flesh...one of the many areas where God changed his mind....AHHH!
 

reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2019
4,618
1,481
113
Somewhere in the USA
reformedtruths.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Oh no! You got me there! OH OH wait!...WAIT! a minute...Au contraire mon frère!
κόσμος = world, people, cosmos, universe

end of flesh...one of the many areas where God changed his mind....AHHH!
It can be used in a context to mean humanity as in people in general. But it has nothing to do with individuals. To say otherwise is either ignorant or dishonest.
 

Grailhunter

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2019
11,082
5,276
113
66
FARMINGTON
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It can be used in a context to mean humanity as in people in general. But it has nothing to do with individuals. To say otherwise is either ignorant or dishonest.
The world includes everyone, everybody, us all, you all, we all, they all, them all, every individual, every person....when the world rotates everyone goes along for the ride...when it orbit the sun we are also in orbit. Now if someone falls off the world during all this, then you can say it does not include everybody. You cannot escape reality...and truth.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy and Renniks