Calvinism vs. Arminianism

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reformed1689

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The world includes everyone, everybody, us all, you all, we all, they all, them all, every individual, every person....when the world rotates everyone goes along for the ride...when it orbit the sun we are also in orbit. Now if someone falls off the world during all this, then you can say it does not include everybody. You cannot escape reality...and truth.
Yes, God loved humanity in general. That he gave his son for those who would believe.
 

Renniks

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Yes, God loved humanity in general. That he gave his son for those who would believe.
You are being dishonest about what Calvinism actually teaches. It teaches he selects some TO believe and causes only them to believe, but damns all the rest.
 

Renniks

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If we are “out of our mind,” as some say, it is for God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. 14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. 15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

16 So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.
 

reformed1689

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You are being dishonest about what Calvinism actually teaches. It teaches he selects some TO believe and causes only them to believe, but damns all the rest.
How have I been dishonest about that? Please point to the specific post. And actually the rest are already condemned because of their sin. The Bible teaches (not Calvinism) that God chooses to save some, to have mercy on some, but not all. We are not to question God. That is what Scripture (not Calvinism) teaches.
 

reformed1689

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If we are “out of our mind,” as some say, it is for God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. 14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. 15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

16 So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.
And what are you trying to prove with this out of context Scripture from 2 Cor?
 

justbyfaith

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Jesus died for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). He gave His life as a ransom for all (1 Timothy 2:6). He wills that all be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Timothy 2:4). He is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).
 

Grailhunter

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I'm telling you what the Bible says. Not what you read into it. You really should learn how to do proper exegesis instead of your eisegesis.
Noooo! I am telling you what the Bibles says in plain words and you do not like it. You can fight it but you are like a bass on a hook, you are not going anywhere. This is pretty simple stuff.
 

justbyfaith

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1. Well your title Puppet Master is your creation but that is not God!

2. Wrong! Every by nature is born condemned we are born fallen creatures and it is only a matter of time before we demonstrate that reality.

3. To prove god is just!

4. All good works have merit. I cannot control how you misquote and misunderstand Scripture. The unsaved do not do those things for the glory of God to begin with, only those given a new nature can do them with a true heart.

5. Wrong again! God did not design evil, but has allowed it to play itself out for His reasons. Every is mercilessly damned to hell in and of themselves. To go to hell, one has to do ...Absolutely NOthing! We are born condemned. No all evil is not at Gods direction, but by Gods permission.

6. He chooses on the basis of the counsel of His own will. YOu and I do not get to be pat of that counsel. YOu need to accept teh fact God is absdolute sovereign pof the Universe and we are puffs of insignificant dust compared to HIm.

7. People damned is the bible whether you like it or not!

8. No it is a person who seeks the truth. If you wish I can show you. Jesus said unless someone is bron again they cannot see the kingdom of God! what do you think that means? Every one is lost until they are born again! How you can't see that is a mystery.

9. Nazism is from the evil of men. Teh elfct and foreknown ad predestined was how God saves people according to HIs Word Romans 9 makes that clear.

10. It is warped only in your mind, but not according to SCripture.

What you are teaching here is not in line with the CB's Statement of Faith
What in particular of what he said is not in alignment with the statement of faith?
 

reformed1689

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Jesus died for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). He gave His life as a ransom for all (1 Timothy 2:6). He wills that all be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Timothy 2:4). He is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).
And you continue to ignore the CONTEXT of the verses and what they are actually addressing. This is your error.
 

reformed1689

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Noooo! I am telling you what the Bibles says in plain words and you do not like it. You can fight it but you are like a bass on a hook, you are not going anywhere. This is pretty simple stuff.
No you are not. You are telling me what the Bible says, then adding what you want that to mean. That is not the same thing.
 

Grailhunter

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No you are not. You are telling me what the Bible says, then adding what you want that to mean. That is not the same thing.
Several verses...the words are not complicated...most people here can tell you what they mean if you ask them. In fact I think a 6 year old could tell you what they mean.
 
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reformed1689

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Several verses...the words are not complicated...most people here can tell you what they mean if you ask them. In fact I think a 6 year old could tell you what they mean.
I agree, they are not complicated. And world does not equal individuals. It is a general term. And it does not answer the question of individuals. You read that into the passage it doesn't actually exist in the passage.
 

Grailhunter

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I agree, they are not complicated. And world does not equal individuals. It is a general term. And it does not answer the question of individuals. You read that into the passage it doesn't actually exist in the passage.

The world is full of people. When you say the words...world or all in the context of these scriptures it means everybody...unless you make exceptions...it means everybody. The scriptures could have made exceptions...but they did not.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.

1st Timothy 2:4 "God desires that all sinners be saved."

2nd Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is patient towards you, not willing that any should parish, but that all should come to repentance."

Matthew 18:14 "Even so it is not the will of the Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish."
 

justbyfaith

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And you continue to ignore the CONTEXT of the verses and what they are actually addressing. This is your error.

Did you never read how Matthew took Hosea 11:1 out of context in Matthew 2:15 and applied it to Jesus when in the original context it applied to Israel?

And are you not aware that if you take 1 Corinthians 9:6 in its immediate context, it substantiates the health/wealth, name-it-and-claim-it doctrine of the word of faith movement in that it tells us that we can reap financial seeds that are sown; but that if you apply the hermeneutic of 1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv) and compare it to Luke 8:11 (taking it out of its immediate context and applying the topical context) you can find a more orthodox interpretation?

And what about how John applies to the crucifixion of Jesus a verse that in all reality is in reference to His second coming (Zechariah 12:10, John 19:34-37)?

The four verses that I have quoted are all in the same topical context of one another. They all teach that God wants to save all men and that Jesus died for all men.

If He only died for the elect, then if you are non-elect, you cannot be saved even if you do what it takes to receive salvation (such as what is prescribed in Romans 10:8-13, or Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39).

There is no guarantee that you personally are of the elect, are you aware of this?

You might be of the non-elect and therefore even calling on the name of the Lord, if you did that, was not sufficient to save you.

If you have never called on the name of the Lord, you have deeper things to worry about. Because if you have not done that, you are definitely not saved.

But if you have, your doctrine teaches that if you are not of the elect, and you gave your heart to Jesus, that was not sufficient to save you; Jesus cast you out when you came to Him.

This is simply an un-biblical prospect.

Jhn 6:37, All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
 
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reformed1689

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1st Timothy 2:4 "God desires that all sinners be saved."
This verse does not say "God desires that all sinners be saved" so you shouldn't put that in quotes.

2nd Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is patient towards you, not willing that any should parish, but that all should come to repentance."
As stated before, the all is referring to the you which is referring to the beloved.

Matthew 18:14 "Even so it is not the will of the Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish."
Out of context.
 

reformed1689

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Did you never read how Matthew took Hosea 11:1 out of context in Matthew 2:15 and applied it to Jesus when in the original context it applied to Israel?

And are you not aware that if you take 1 Corinthians 9:6 in its immediate context, it substantiates the health/wealth, name-it-and-claim-it doctrine of the word of faith movement in that it tells us that we can reap financial seeds that are sown; but that if you apply the hermeneutic of 1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv) and compare it to Luke 8:11 (taking it out of its immediate context and applying the topical context) you can find a more orthodox interpretation?

And what about how John applies to the crucifixion of Jesus a verse that in all reality is in reference to His second coming (Zechariah 12:10, John 19:34-37)?

The four verses that I have quoted are all in the same topical context of one another. They all teach that God wants to save all men and that Jesus died for all men.

If He only died for the elect, then if you are non-elect, you cannot be saved even if you do what it takes to receive salvation (such as what is prescribed in Romans 10:8-13, or Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39).

There is no guarantee that you personally are of the elect, are you aware of this?

You might be of the non-elect and therefore even calling on the name of the Lord, if you did that, was not sufficient to save you.

If you have never called on the name of the Lord, you have deeper things to worry about. Because if you have not done that, you are definitely not saved.

But if you have, your doctrine teaches that if you are not of the elect, and you gave your heart to Jesus, that was not sufficient to save you; Jesus cast you out when you came to Him.

This is simply an un-biblical prospect.

Jhn 6:37, All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
More strawman dishonests crap.
 

Grailhunter

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This verse does not say "God desires that all sinners be saved" so you shouldn't put that in quotes.


As stated before, the all is referring to the you which is referring to the beloved.


Out of context.


1st Timothy 2:4 "God desires that all sinners be saved."
This verse does not say "God desires that all sinners be saved" so you shouldn't put that in quotes.
True...I like..."who wants all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." or
"who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. or
"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."


2nd Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is patient towards you, not willing that any should parish, but that all should come to repentance."
As stated before, the all is referring to the you which is referring to the beloved.
You is the reader...at that point the whole church.

Matthew 18:14 "Even so it is not the will of the Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish."
Out of context.
Nope it is in great context....it does not matter if it was the children before Him or any new Christian.
 
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