Calvinism vs. Arminianism

Grailhunter · Mar 1, 2021

@marks LOL Grailhunter is good, Grailhunter is wise...LOL
Google
κόσμος
world, people, cosmos, universe

Strong's
kosmos: order, the world
Original Word: κόσμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: kosmos
Phonetic Spelling: (kos'-mos)
Definition: order, the world
Usage: the world, universe; worldly affairs; the inhabitants of the world; adornment.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
probably from the base of 2865; orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication, the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively (morally)):--adorning, world.

The word "world" Is used 188 time in the New Testament, my context is correct.
A few examples...
Matthew 4:8: "all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory"
Matthew 5:14: "the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill"
Matthew 13:35: "things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world."
Matthew 13:38: "field is the world; the good seed are"
Matthew 16:26: "he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"
Matthew 18:7: "Woe unto the world because of offenses! for it must needs be that offenses"
Matthew 24:21: "not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever"
Matthew 25:34: "for you from the foundation of the world:"
Matthew 26:13: "shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman"
Mark 8:36: "he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"
Mark 14:9: "shall be preached throughout the whole world, this also that she"
Mark 16:15: "ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every"
Luke 9:25: "if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or"
Luke 11:50: "which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;"
Luke 12:30: "do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father"
John 1:9: "that cometh into the world."
John 1:10: "He was in the world, and the world was made"
John 1:10: "world, and the world was made by him, and"
John 1:10: "him, and the world knew him not."
John 1:29: "the sin of the world."
John 3:16: "so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten"
John 3:17: "Son into the world to condemn the world;"
John 3:17: "to condemn the world; but that the world"
John 3:17: "but that the world through him might be saved."
John 3:19: "is come into the world, and men loved darkness"
John 4:42: "the Savior of the world."
John 6:14: "that should come into the world."
John 6:33: "giveth life unto the world."
John 6:51: "for the life of the world."
John 7:4: "these things, show thyself to the world."
John 7:7: "The world cannot hate you; but me"
John 8:12: "the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk"
John 8:23: "are of this world; I am not of"
John 8:23: "not of this world."
John 8:26: "speak to the world those things which I have heard of"
John 9:5: "I am in the world, I am the light of the world."
John 9:5: "I am the light of the world."
John 9:39: "am come into this world, that they which see not might see;"
John 10:36: "sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am"
John 11:9: "the light of this world."
John 11:27: "which should come into the world."
John 12:19: "nothing? behold, the world is gone after him."
John 12:25: "life in this world shall keep it unto life"
John 12:31: "is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this"
John 12:31: "shall the prince of this world be cast out."
John 12:46: "a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on"
John 12:47: "to judge the world, but to save the"
John 12:47: "to save the world."
John 13:1: "he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved"
John 13:1: "which were in the world, he loved them unto the end."

The rest of the list is at Strongs's #2889: kosmos - Greek/Hebrew Definitions - Bible Tools

Grailhunter · Mar 1, 2021

@marks
Looks like they unanimously agree with me...adornment, system, etc not used in place of the word...world. Which would be its most obvious meaning. Of course the scriptures are not going to reference the planet as earth too many times, but the word world means the planet or all those that are included in the societies that exist on the planet. From there you have to make exceptions to not be considered all encompassing. As some would say that Christians are in the world, but not part of it.

New International Version
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

New Living Translation
“For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

English Standard Version
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Berean Study Bible
For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Berean Literal Bible
For God so loved the world that He gave the only begotten Son, so that everyone believing in Him should not perish, but should have eternal life.

King James Bible
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

New King James Version
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

New American Standard Bible
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.

NASB 1995
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

NASB 1977
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Amplified Bible
“For God so [greatly] loved and dearly prized the world, that He [even] gave His [One and] only begotten Son, so that whoever believes and trusts in Him [as Savior] shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Christian Standard Bible
For God loved the world in this way: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
"For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

American Standard Version
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Contemporary English Version
God loved the people of this world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who has faith in him will have eternal life and never really die.

Douay-Rheims Bible
For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting.

English Revised Version
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Good News Translation
For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not die but have eternal life.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
God loved the world this way: He gave his only Son so that everyone who believes in him will not die but will have eternal life.

International Standard Version
"For this is how God loved the world: He gave his unique Son so that everyone who believes in him might not be lost but have eternal life.

Literal Standard Version
for God so loved the world that He gave the only begotten Son, that everyone who is believing in Him may not perish, but may have continuous life.

NET Bible
For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

New Heart English Bible
For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that whoever believes in him will not perish, but have everlasting life.

Weymouth New Testament
For so greatly did God love the world that He gave His only Son, that every one who trusts in Him may not perish but may have the Life of Ages.

World English Bible
For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Young's Literal Translation
for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

marks · Mar 1, 2021

Grailhunter said:
@marks
Looks like they unanimously agree with me...adornment, system, etc not used in place of the word...world. Which would be its most obvious meaning. Of course the scriptures are not going to reference the planet as earth too many times, but the word world means the planet or all those that are included in the societies that exist on the planet.

Actually, 188 times the NT uses "ge", "earth". I think this fact affirms that kosmos more speaks of the societies then the planet itself.

Much love!

Grailhunter · Mar 1, 2021

marks said:
Actually, 188 times the NT uses "ge", "earth". I think this fact affirms that kosmos more speaks of the societies then the planet itself.

Much love!

Like I said the Bible is not going to reference the world as the planet earth too many times. but the word world means the planet or all those that are included in the societies that exist on the planet.

Behold · Mar 1, 2021

Kermos said:
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I YHWH do all these things" (Isaiah 45:7).
.

Kermos,

Stay out of corrupted commentaries and listen to good teachers..

Let me explain that verse..

The Hebrew word that is translated as "evil", means this... adversity, affliction, calamity, distress, misery..,death.

Now what is the context of that word in your verse, as you don't know, and the commentaries that you obsess on, dont know, but i do, so, let me explain it.

In that verse, at that time, in the OT....God is dealing only with His chosen, and He deals with them, in the OT< differently, then He deals with New Testament born again Saints.
IN the OT you have Law, and in the NT, you have GRACE.
So, you have to understand that in the OT< God would have the Jews kill everything that moved, when He sent them into a new location.
"kill them all"....dont even leave the cattle.........slay everything that has breath.... Leave nothing alive. Cut off their heads. Tear down their Baal Alters. KILL THEM ALL.
See that?
That is Old Testament God, vs the God that Sent His Son to create the New Testament.

So, do i have your attention, Kermos? Readers ???
As you Kermos are a dark light found so far on this Thread... and i'll help you out of that, if its possible, but probably it wont be , as you are obviously hell bent on proving that God is Evil....... So what kind of a person wants, WANTS to do that?
That you.
Dont you do this same evil on every Christian forum that has not kicked you off for doing it?
IM SURE YOU DO.
See yourself now? We do.
As that is what you are, when you define HOLY GOD as causing all the evil in the world, based on verses you dont understand and dont respect.

So...As i was saying.
IN the OT God was always dealing with His Chosen, and he dealt with them according to STRICT standards He set that, if they didnt keep them all, then he'd open up the ground and 3000 would fall into the hole and DIE.
No questions asked. No "civil rights" indicated.
That's what happened to disobedient " Hebrew chosen" the very day that Moses came down the mountain with the Law.
God killed 3000 as a specific type of "evil", that im explaining to you.
Now, compare that with Acts 2, when Peter is revealing Jesus as Messiah, and Grace is on the way, and 3000 are saved.

So, under the Law, in the OT, God would bring hardship, suffering, pain, and, worse, as correction to His Chosen, and that "evil" in that verse you misused, is regarding harsh harsh correction... as God considers that evil......tho, necessary.
What does that mean? It means that its not moral evil that God has created, but rather a necessary evil, or harsh harsh correction.
Sometimes you DIE, is how harsh this correction can be.

Let me give you an example of 2 "evils" that bear this definition, as it's to be understood.

1.) God brought the necessary "evil" of the FLOOD, and killed every thing that breathes, except for what was saved by the Ark, = out of the water.

2.) God brought the necessary "evil" of fire and brimstone to the sexually perverted who were in Sodom and Gomorrah.
They were DESTROYED by GOD.
So....See that punishment that in both cases is total destruction?
That is "evil" being brought by God into the lives and into the earth itself, when necessary.
See that word now, how it means "evil"? = adversity, affliction, calamity, distress, misery..,death.
Thats the VERSE you quoted.....that's how you understand it correctly.

And one more for you Kermos...... God is going to bring another of these destructive evil's into this world very soon, and that one is "in flaming fire taking Vengeance on all who do not obey the GOSPEL".

See that evil? That is Jesus imparting indescribable suffering.
Thats the Lamb of God come back here as the LION OF JUDAH, and He is going to cause such "evil", as you didnt understand it, in the verse you quoted.

Notice that this "evil" that Jesus is going to bring.... is not God being morally evil, or creating sin, which is evil, or evil deeds...but rather its the destruction of the wicked and evil itself.

reformed1689 · Mar 1, 2021

marks said:
Speaking of dishonest . . . you find all this grievous fault with those who say that "for God so loved the world" that this means every person,

Oh no, you say, eisegesis, you say . . .

and here you are allowing that it can mean humanity in general!

I hope everyone sees this! I hope you will consider this.

I hope you will receive it in love.

Much love!

Humanity in General does not Equal individuals.

Renniks · Mar 1, 2021

Ronald Nolette said:
I never said God predestines sins anywhere in my posts. You are making up false accusations against me now!

You said God caused sin. Now you change your mind?

justbyfaith · Mar 1, 2021

Ronald Nolette said:
Can you show me biblically these "windows" you speak of?

What happens during these windows? does God suspend our natural man which would never choose Him according to His Word soe we might choose Him?

So these people being drawn and do not accept Christ- they do not come to Jesus? Do they get close and change their minds? I have no clue for I never saw this in the bible.

What about Paul and Jeremiah? they were set apart before they were born? could they have rejected God setting them apart?

Can you show me biblically the justification for saying that a person is irresistibly drawn to Christ?

I think that the same verses that you use to justify that doctrine, can be interpreted to be teaching what I am saying; if you go into the fray with the understanding that mankind is responsible for his behaviour and that therefore his judgment at the end of time will not be a kangaroo court.

Ronald Nolette said:
But it seems you have a bigger problem. If God <fify> did not want sin in His creation and sin came in anyway- then there is a will in the universe stronger than the will of God.

No; for God in His sovereignty desired that His creation would not be a bunch of robots and gave a degree of sovereignty also to mankind as well as the angels.

It is not that there is a will in the Universe stronger than the will of God; but that it was God's own will to create mankind and angels with a capacity for free will...

Ronald Nolette said:
What about the untold billions who never heard the gospel even once? They did not even have a chance to choose!

Those who never had a chance to choose Jesus in their lifetime will be given an opportunity at their GWT judgment (1 Peter 3:19, 1 Peter 4:6); while those who heard about Jesus in their lifetime and rejected Him will not be given a second chance at their GWT judgment.

Also, Romans 1 speaks of the light of creation, Romans 2 speaks of the light of conscience, and Romans 3 speaks of the light of Christ. If someone receives and obeys the first light, they will be given the 2nd light; and if they receive and obey the 2nd light, they will be given the 3rd light.

Therefore, all men are without excuse before the Lord (Romans 1:20).

marks said:
I would disagree with that. I find you teach both sides at the same time.

Much love!

I think that my take on John 10:27-30 deals with the common objection of those who deny eternal security (that they can walk away themselves) when I bring Jeremiah 32:38-40 and Psalms 19:9 (kjv) into the fray.

Behold said:
See that?
That is Old Testament God, vs the God that Sent His Son to create the New Testament.

So, let me get this straight...by your estimation the God of the New Testament is not the same God as the God of the Old Testament?

marks · Mar 1, 2021

reformed1689 said:
Humanity in General does not Equal individuals.

The members of this forum would disagree with you.

Much love!

marks · Mar 1, 2021

reformed1689 said:
Humanity in General does not Equal individuals.

And I didn't say, "individuals", I said, every person.

For God so loved the world = God loves all the people.

Much love!

Behold · Mar 1, 2021

Ronald Nolette said:
So what you are saying is that there is a will in the universe that is more powerful than Gods!.

Fools and similar believe that God is responsible for the evil that men do and cause, because they have been allowed freewill to choose their personal behavior and destiny.

The biggest fool of all, teaches that because man chooses to use his freewill to bite the wrong apple, and rape, and kill, and watch "Game of Thrones", and "R"Rated Movies, or porn on the internet.......or that because man chooses to wrongly choose EVIL over GOOD, time and time again, all their lives as their personal homosexual sexuality CHOICE......that all this is God's fault for = allowing it.

Have you ever met one of these fools?
If you do, then tell them that its a fool's game and a fools errand to try to prove that God is responsible for the evil that men do and cause, such as killing God's Son on The Cross.

Behold · Mar 1, 2021

Ronald Nolette said:
Definie what you mean by "God has no part in evil". I do not wish to misunderstand you.

Freewill.
See... that is all yours., Ronald.
That's on you....
God is not responsible for your choices. (Freewill)... He is only responsible for giving you HIS WILL that He would have you choose, but will not make you choose.

Inside your mind is a CONSCIENCE. And that is the steering wheel regarding your behavior.
You own the wheel, but God owns the Conscience.
He wont take the wheel from you, but He has given you the right road to choose.
But the road you take, His, or yours......is YOUR CHOICE.

Grailhunter · Mar 1, 2021

reformed1689 said:
Humanity in General does not Equal individuals.

Any broad designation is an all encompassing designation, unless there is a stipulation. For example and this is a great example of the chosen
John 15:19
"If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.

It references the world but stipulates that all Christians are chosen. Here the Christians are those people that were chosen and accepted the invitation. Still free will. God loved us while we were yet still sinners and offered salvation to all. The whole world, and Christians are those that accepted that invitation.

Hebrew 3:1
Therefore, holy brethren, sharers with others in a heavenly invitation, fix your thoughts on Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest whose followers we profess to be.

Revelation 19:9
And he said to me, "Write as follows: 'Blessed are those who receive an invitation to the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.'" And he added, still addressing me, "These are truly the words of God."

marks · Mar 1, 2021

justbyfaith said:
I think that my take on John 10:27-30 deals with the common objection of those who deny eternal security (that they can walk away themselves) when I bring Jeremiah 32:38-40 and Psalms 19:9 (kjv) into the fray.

Yes, it seems to me that you comingle the old and new covenants. But the new is built on better promises.

You cannot just walk away from God's ownership of you, as if you exerted a greater authority than God. God purchased His redeemed, and He owns them. You don't get to just tell God, "No, you don't own me". There is no walking away. And besides, to reject God is sin, sin is from the flesh, the child of God does not sin, and will never reject God.

Much love!

Behold · Mar 1, 2021

justbyfaith said:
Just playing the devil's advocate here; what of the following verse?

Isa 45:7, I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

In starting this thread, I opened up a can of worms.

You started this Thread for the other reason you are on any Christian Forum.

1.) pick a "click bait" argument, and repost it, so that you can watch it keep going, as your flesh needs this terribly.

2.) To try to prove cult teaching.

So, let me responds to your request.

-
Let me explain that verse..

The Hebrew word that is translated as "evil", means this... adversity, affliction, calamity, distress, misery..,death.

In that verse, at that time, in the OT....God is dealing only with His chosen, and He deals with them, in the OT< differently, then He deals with New Testament born again Saints.
IN the OT you have Law, and in the NT, you have GRACE.
So, you have to understand that in the OT< God would have the Jews kill everything that moved, when He sent them into a new location.
"kill them all"....dont even leave the cattle.........slay everything that has breath.... Leave nothing alive. Cut off their heads. Tear down their Baal Alters. KILL THEM ALL.
See that?
That is Old Testament God, vs the God that Sent His Son to create the New Testament.

So, do i have your attention,?

Listen..
IN the OT God was always dealing with His Chosen, and he dealt with them according to STRICT standards He set that, if they didnt keep them all, then he'd open up the ground and 3000 would fall into the hole and DIE.
No questions asked. No "civil rights" indicated.
That's what happened to disobedient " Hebrew chosen" the very day that Moses came down the mountain with the Law.
God killed 3000 as a specific type of "evil", that im explaining to you.
Now, compare that with Acts 2, when Peter is revealing Jesus as Messiah, and Grace is on the way, and 3000 are saved.

So, under the Law, in the OT, God would bring hardship, suffering, pain, and, worse, as correction to His Chosen, and that "evil" in that verse you misused, is regarding harsh harsh correction... as God considers that evil......tho, necessary.
What does that mean? It means that its not moral evil that God has created, but rather a necessary evil, or harsh harsh correction.
Sometimes you DIE, is how harsh this correction can be.

Let me give you an example of 2 "evils" that bear this definition, as it's to be understood.

1.) God brought the necessary "evil" of the FLOOD, and killed every thing that breathes, except for what was saved by the Ark, = out of the water.

2.) God brought the necessary "evil" of fire and brimstone to the sexually perverted who were in Sodom and Gomorrah.
They were DESTROYED by GOD.
So....See that punishment that in both cases is total destruction?
That is "evil" being brought by God into the lives and into the earth itself, when necessary.
See that word now, how it means "evil"? = adversity, affliction, calamity, distress, misery..,death.
Thats the VERSE you quoted.....that's how you understand it correctly.

And one more for you justbyfaith...... God is going to bring another of these destructive evil's into this world very soon, and that one is "in flaming fire taking Vengeance on all who do not obey the GOSPEL".

See that evil? That is Jesus imparting indescribable suffering.
Thats the Lamb of God come back here as the LION OF JUDAH, and He is going to cause such "evil", as you didnt understand it, in the verse you quoted.

Notice that this "evil" that Jesus is going to bring.... is not God being morally evil, or creating sin, which is evil, or evil deeds...but rather its the destruction of the wicked and evil itself.

justbyfaith · Mar 1, 2021

marks said:
Yes, it seems to me that you comingle the old and new covenants. But the new is built on better promises.

You cannot just walk away from God's ownership of you, as if you exerted a greater authority than God. God purchased His redeemed, and He owns them. You don't get to just tell God, "No, you don't own me". There is no walking away. And besides, to reject God is sin, sin is from the flesh, the child of God does not sin, and will never reject God.

Much love!

I am saying that without Jeremiah 32:38-40, the contention of those who deny eternal security (that a man can walk away himself) would indeed have merit. Jeremiah 32:38-40 and Psalms 19:9 (kjv) cut that off at the chase. The fear of the LORD keeps you from walking away according to those scriptures.

I often wonder at people who deny that the Old Testament has validity.

They should be aware that the only scriptures that the early church had was the Old Testament.

So Paul was referring to the Old Testament when he said this:

2Ti 3:16, All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17, That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

That being said, I do believe that the New Testament is to be included in the rigamaro what we call holy scripture.

Grailhunter · Mar 1, 2021

@justbyfaith
Isiah 45:7 is a very significant verse as far as theological study. I am interested in seeing the responses.

New International Version
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

New Living Translation
I create the light and make the darkness. I send good times and bad times. I, the LORD, am the one who does these things.

English Standard Version
I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things.

Berean Study Bible
I form the light and create the darkness; I bring prosperity and create calamity. I, the LORD, do all these things.

King James Bible
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

New King James Version
I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the LORD, do all these things.’

New American Standard Bible
The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating disaster; I am the LORD who does all these things.

NASB 1995
The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.

NASB 1977
The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.

Amplified Bible
The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing peace and creating disaster; I am the LORD who does all these things.

Christian Standard Bible
I form light and create darkness, I make success and create disaster; I am the LORD, who does all these things.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
I form light and create darkness, I make success and create disaster; I, Yahweh, do all these things."

American Standard Version
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.

Brenton Septuagint Translation
I am he that prepared light, and formed darkness; who make peace, and create evil; I am the Lord God, that does all these things.

Contemporary English Version
I create light and darkness, happiness and sorrow. I, the LORD, do all this.

Douay-Rheims Bible
I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord that do all these things.

English Revised Version
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am the LORD, that doeth all these things.

Good News Translation
I create both light and darkness; I bring both blessing and disaster. I, the LORD, do all these things.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
I make light and create darkness. I make blessings and create disasters. I, the LORD, do all these things.

International Standard Version
"I form light and create darkness, I make goodness and create disaster. I am the LORD, who does all these things.

JPS Tanakh 1917
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am the LORD, that doeth all these things.

Literal Standard Version
Forming light, and creating darkness, "" Making peace, and creating calamity, "" I [am] YHWH, doing all these things.

NET Bible
I am the one who forms light and creates darkness; the one who brings about peace and creates calamity. I am the LORD, who accomplishes all these things.

New Heart English Bible
I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create calamity. I am the LORD, who does all these things.

World English Bible
I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create calamity. I am Yahweh, who does all these things.

Young's Literal Translation
Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I am Jehovah, doing all these things.'

justbyfaith · Mar 1, 2021

Behold said:
You started this Thread for the other reason you are on any Christian Forum.

1.) pick a "click bait" argument, and repost it, so that you can watch it keep going, as your flesh needs this terribly.

2.) To try to prove cult teaching.

No, that is the reason why you start threads.

For, in judging these things to be true of me (while they are in fact false), you have three fingers pointing back at you (see Matthew 7:1-5, Luke 6:41-42).

I start threads in order to preach the gospel and so that there may be excellent discussion on topics that have not been reconciled together in people's minds, in the holy scriptures.

Behold said:
That is Old Testament God, vs the God that Sent His Son to create the New Testament.

As I said before, so will I say again...

Let me get this straight...

By your estimation, the God of the New Testament is not the same God as the God of the Old Testament?

justbyfaith · Mar 1, 2021

Grailhunter said:
@justbyfaith
Isiah 45:7 is a very significant verse as far as theological study. I am interested in seeing the responses.

New International Version
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

New Living Translation
I create the light and make the darkness. I send good times and bad times. I, the LORD, am the one who does these things.

English Standard Version
I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things.

Berean Study Bible
I form the light and create the darkness; I bring prosperity and create calamity. I, the LORD, do all these things.

King James Bible
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

New King James Version
I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the LORD, do all these things.’

New American Standard Bible
The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating disaster; I am the LORD who does all these things.

NASB 1995
The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.

NASB 1977
The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.

Amplified Bible
The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing peace and creating disaster; I am the LORD who does all these things.

Christian Standard Bible
I form light and create darkness, I make success and create disaster; I am the LORD, who does all these things.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
I form light and create darkness, I make success and create disaster; I, Yahweh, do all these things."

American Standard Version
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.

Brenton Septuagint Translation
I am he that prepared light, and formed darkness; who make peace, and create evil; I am the Lord God, that does all these things.

Contemporary English Version
I create light and darkness, happiness and sorrow. I, the LORD, do all this.

Douay-Rheims Bible
I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord that do all these things.

English Revised Version
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am the LORD, that doeth all these things.

Good News Translation
I create both light and darkness; I bring both blessing and disaster. I, the LORD, do all these things.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
I make light and create darkness. I make blessings and create disasters. I, the LORD, do all these things.

International Standard Version
"I form light and create darkness, I make goodness and create disaster. I am the LORD, who does all these things.

JPS Tanakh 1917
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am the LORD, that doeth all these things.

Literal Standard Version
Forming light, and creating darkness, "" Making peace, and creating calamity, "" I [am] YHWH, doing all these things.

NET Bible
I am the one who forms light and creates darkness; the one who brings about peace and creates calamity. I am the LORD, who accomplishes all these things.

New Heart English Bible
I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create calamity. I am the LORD, who does all these things.

World English Bible
I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create calamity. I am Yahweh, who does all these things.

Young's Literal Translation
Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I am Jehovah, doing all these things.'

I think that I would rather refrain from making commentary about this verse in particular; because I am uncertain as to its real meaning and I don't want to comment on anything that I have not studied out.

Behold · Mar 1, 2021

justbyfaith said:
So, let me get this straight...by your estimation the God of the New Testament is not the same God as the God of the Old Testament?

Same God, different Testament.
Same God, different Covenant.
Jesus was not on The Cross in the Old Testament.

Do you notice anything different, yet?

Calvinism vs. Arminianism

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