There is much teaching on this topic today especially on TV.
What is fact and what is fiction? What does God want and not want for us to have?
What is fact and what is fiction? What does God want and not want for us to have?
Prosperity Gospel
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Miss Hepburn
Well-Known Member
Seems pretty clear to me - Do not worry about your food or shelter, remembering
our Father takes care of even the birdies.
Do not be afraid,
Cast you cares
Give Him your burdens
Delight in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart (of course by this time your
desires are pretty refined to only wanting HIM! Ha!)
Jesus came for us to have an abundant life - I'd say in everything - an abundance of happiness, success of every kind.
Prosperity in health, happiness and being taken care of with no worries of any kind - might be different than what
you're after - but it still fits.
I believe Jesus taught us secrets to how this Universe works -as in Ask, knock... door opens. Believe and receive, know that
you already have it. Say to this mountain...James said - You have not, because you ask not.
Paul wrote to the Romans - He who did not spare His own Son....how will He not, along with Him, graciously give us all things?
Things are things.
I know that alot of TV guys talk about prosperity and if Mike Murdock asks for another 300 people to give $1000 my thumb
will get sore clicking the channel -but it is working for me - believe, ask, receive...Sow and reap.
Confess it and possess it.
It does work.
It all glorifies God.
But I figure you want to take an opposite view - knock yourself out.
I'll stick with my positive view, like I said, it's workin'.
I believe God wants me healthy, clear, positive and taken care of abundantly;
with no worries.
Jesus did not die for me to be poor, unhealthy, struggling, depressed, unhappy and suffer.
I'm the daughter of a KING! A joint heir with Christ...I expect nothing less than to be taken care of
as His child; I accept my inheritance. So far so good.
Miss Hepburn
[email protected]
Choir Loft
"And as it came to pass in the days of Noah, even so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
They ate, they drank, they married, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise even as it came to pass in the days of Lot; they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; but in the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all: after the same manner shall it be in the day that the Son of man is revealed."
Luke 17:26-30
Let's have a quick, but accurate look at Our Lord's words in the verses above.
Notice that things which are usually associated with prosperity are mentioned, yet Jesus rolls them into a sort of dark corner with regard to a description of the way things will be when He returns.
What is wrong with marrying and giving in marriage?
What is wrong with eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building?
Look again carefully.
There is no reference to debauchery or ANY of the sins of the ten commandments (including homosexuality).
Yet Jesus looks disdainfully upon the actions of those who live in the last days.
What's wrong with this picture?
The errors my brothers and sisters is in PASSIVE INDIFFERENCE to God and His word.
It is NOT prosperity first, but obediance and trust in Christ which are to be first.
When Jesus quoted these verses His emphasis was on indifference to God as expressed in evidence of prosperity.
If the greatest commandment is to love God, then the greatest sin is to ignore Him.
They ate, they drank, they married, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise even as it came to pass in the days of Lot; they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; but in the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all: after the same manner shall it be in the day that the Son of man is revealed."
Luke 17:26-30
Let's have a quick, but accurate look at Our Lord's words in the verses above.
Notice that things which are usually associated with prosperity are mentioned, yet Jesus rolls them into a sort of dark corner with regard to a description of the way things will be when He returns.
What is wrong with marrying and giving in marriage?
What is wrong with eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building?
Look again carefully.
There is no reference to debauchery or ANY of the sins of the ten commandments (including homosexuality).
Yet Jesus looks disdainfully upon the actions of those who live in the last days.
What's wrong with this picture?
The errors my brothers and sisters is in PASSIVE INDIFFERENCE to God and His word.
It is NOT prosperity first, but obediance and trust in Christ which are to be first.
When Jesus quoted these verses His emphasis was on indifference to God as expressed in evidence of prosperity.
If the greatest commandment is to love God, then the greatest sin is to ignore Him.
YOU ALL READ THIS AGAIN being obedient to GOD IS NOT JUST to follow CHRIST but to receive from CHRIST the sacrifices he offered. MISS HEPBURN i too have the same results in my life. works for me too. great post . WILL HE FIND FAITH WHEN HE RETURNSSeems pretty clear to me - Do not worry about your food or shelter, remembering
our Father takes care of even the birdies.
Do not be afraid,
Cast you cares
Give Him your burdens
Delight in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart (of course by this time your
desires are pretty refined to only wanting HIM! Ha!)
Jesus came for us to have an abundant life - I'd say in everything - an abundance of happiness, success of every kind.
Prosperity in health, happiness and being taken care of with no worries of any kind - might be different than what
you're after - but it still fits.
I believe Jesus taught us secrets to how this Universe works -as in Ask, knock... door opens. Believe and receive, know that
you already have it. Say to this mountain...James said - You have not, because you ask not.
Paul wrote to the Romans - He who did not spare His own Son....how will He not, along with Him, graciously give us all things?
Things are things.
I know that alot of TV guys talk about prosperity and if Mike Murdock asks for another 300 people to give $1000 my thumb
will get sore clicking the channel -but it is working for me - believe, ask, receive...Sow and reap.
Confess it and possess it.
It does work.
It all glorifies God.
But I figure you want to take an opposite view - knock yourself out.
I'll stick with my positive view, like I said, it's workin'.
I believe God wants me healthy, clear, positive and taken care of abundantly;
with no worries.
Jesus did not die for me to be poor, unhealthy, struggling, depressed, unhappy and suffer.
I'm the daughter of a KING! A joint heir with Christ...I expect nothing less than to be taken care of
as His child; I accept my inheritance. So far so good.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
the prosperity gospel is the Good News for the Westernized consumer. It has nothing to do with Christianity. Jesus calls us to serve others - the PG is all about how to get what we want. Christianity is all about abundance, but we receive this abundance by serving others and giving up our claims on the world - the opposite message of the PG.
Peace
Peace
Keep falsehood and lies far from me; give me neither poverty nor riches, but give me only my daily bread. Otherwise, I may have too much and disown you and say, 'Who is the LORD?' Or I may become poor and steal, and so dishonor the name of my God." -- Prov. 30: 8-9
IMHO
Its not what God wants us to have , or not have , but rather God will simply watch us , to see what we in our heart seek and desire .
Depending on where our hearts lead us will determine Gods response .
Mathew 6-[sup]19[/sup] “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; [sup]20[/sup] but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. [sup]21[/sup] For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Rev 22-12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Job 34:11 He repays a man for what he has done; he brings upon him what his conduct deserves.
Psalm 28:4 Repay them for their deeds and for their evil work; repay them for what their hands have done and bring back upon them what they deserve.
Isaiah 40:10 See, the Sovereign LORD comes with power, and his arm rules for him. See, his reward is with him, and his recompense accompanies him.
Isaiah 62:11 The LORD has made proclamation to the ends of the earth: "Say to the Daughter of Zion, 'See, your Savior comes! See, his reward is with him, and his recompense accompanies him.'"
Jeremiah 17:10 "I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward a man according to his conduct, according to what his deeds deserve."
Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.
Revelation 2:23 I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.
Revelation 3:11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.
Rev 22-12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Job 34:11 He repays a man for what he has done; he brings upon him what his conduct deserves.
Psalm 28:4 Repay them for their deeds and for their evil work; repay them for what their hands have done and bring back upon them what they deserve.
Isaiah 40:10 See, the Sovereign LORD comes with power, and his arm rules for him. See, his reward is with him, and his recompense accompanies him.
Isaiah 62:11 The LORD has made proclamation to the ends of the earth: "Say to the Daughter of Zion, 'See, your Savior comes! See, his reward is with him, and his recompense accompanies him.'"
Jeremiah 17:10 "I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward a man according to his conduct, according to what his deeds deserve."
Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.
Revelation 2:23 I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.
Revelation 3:11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.
I got to searching a little more, looks like some of our televangelist over looked this verse.
1 Cor 9-[sup]13[/sup] Do you not know that those who minister the holy things eat of the things of the temple, and those who serve at the altar partake of the offerings of the altar? [sup]14[/sup] Even so the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should live from the gospel.
[sup]15[/sup] But I have used none of these things, nor have I written these things that it should be done so to me; for it would be better for me to die than that anyone should make my boasting void. [sup]16[/sup] For if I preach the gospel, I have nothing to boast of, for necessity is laid upon me; yes, woe is me if I do not preach the gospel! [sup]17[/sup] For if I do this willingly, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have been entrusted with a stewardship. [sup]18[/sup] What is my reward then? That when I preach the gospel, I may present the gospel of Christ[sup][b][/sup] without charge, that I may not abuse my authority in the gospel.
1 Cor 9-[sup]13[/sup] Do you not know that those who minister the holy things eat of the things of the temple, and those who serve at the altar partake of the offerings of the altar? [sup]14[/sup] Even so the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should live from the gospel.
[sup]15[/sup] But I have used none of these things, nor have I written these things that it should be done so to me; for it would be better for me to die than that anyone should make my boasting void. [sup]16[/sup] For if I preach the gospel, I have nothing to boast of, for necessity is laid upon me; yes, woe is me if I do not preach the gospel! [sup]17[/sup] For if I do this willingly, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have been entrusted with a stewardship. [sup]18[/sup] What is my reward then? That when I preach the gospel, I may present the gospel of Christ[sup][b][/sup] without charge, that I may not abuse my authority in the gospel.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
It is hard for me to believe that any serious, educated Christian could buy into the propriety gospel movement - but, Joyce Meyers sells A LOT of books. I was involved in a Protestant Bible study last Spring - connected to a Life Center (Willow Creek / Saddleback church model) and my good friend who was leading the group - who I respect - pulled out "Battlefield of the Mind" and announced that we were going to be studying it in the group. I almost fell over dead....
Now, I joined the Catholic Church about 10 years ago, so I was not in a place to pick out the curriculum for the Bible study (although, I was kind of hoping we would be studying the Bible ), but I still had to say something...
When I told him that Joyce Meyers is a "name it and claim it" preacher - he told me to suspend my judgment and give her book a chance. I read her book - it read like a bad conversation - and now I know I was right! Why do Willow Creek type churches have a habit of falling into that sort of garbage? I really thought they were more orthodox than that??
Peace
Now, I joined the Catholic Church about 10 years ago, so I was not in a place to pick out the curriculum for the Bible study (although, I was kind of hoping we would be studying the Bible
), but I still had to say something...When I told him that Joyce Meyers is a "name it and claim it" preacher - he told me to suspend my judgment and give her book a chance. I read her book - it read like a bad conversation - and now I know I was right! Why do Willow Creek type churches have a habit of falling into that sort of garbage? I really thought they were more orthodox than that??
Peace
Miss Hepburn
Well-Known Member
Miss Hepburn
Well-Known Member
Random excerpt from" Battlefield of the Mind" by Joyce Meyer -opened to page 99...
"Anytime we see what the Word says and refuse to do it, reasoning has somehow gotten involved and deceived us
into believing something other than the truth."
Such heresy. (Sarcasm alert)
"I have found out God wants me to obey Him, whether or not I feel like it, want to or think it is a good idea. (The nerve of her.)
Hmm, page 46
If you don't have any idea what God's will is for you at this point, at least begin by thinking, "Well, I don't know God's
plan, but I know He loves me. Whatever He does will be good, and I'll be blessed."
(How dare she.)
And there's MORE!
Sorry, aspen, we must disagree on putting this teaching book down -
she does very good work, esp in the helping of children in the underground sex slave trade and would
excel under any scrutiny by the government or any other group.
Again, sorry, but I did take offense mocking my Christian sister Joyce and her books.
"Anytime we see what the Word says and refuse to do it, reasoning has somehow gotten involved and deceived us
into believing something other than the truth."
Such heresy. (Sarcasm alert)
"I have found out God wants me to obey Him, whether or not I feel like it, want to or think it is a good idea. (The nerve of her.)
Hmm, page 46
If you don't have any idea what God's will is for you at this point, at least begin by thinking, "Well, I don't know God's
plan, but I know He loves me. Whatever He does will be good, and I'll be blessed."
(How dare she.)
And there's MORE!
Sorry, aspen, we must disagree on putting this teaching book down -
she does very good work, esp in the helping of children in the underground sex slave trade and would
excel under any scrutiny by the government or any other group.
Again, sorry, but I did take offense mocking my Christian sister Joyce and her books.
[email protected]
Choir Loft
We have arrived at a point in American history where the most devastating loss one can suffer is financial.
Not a loss of ...
military superiority (we need to cut back on our invasions).
our health (important but not top priority).
our possessions (all the toys we own).
food (many of us NEED to skip a meal).
our appearance (millions for fashion - pennies for charity)
our homes (owe too much? - abandon it and start elsewhere)
our children (abandoned, ignored, unwanted and legally murdered)
God (passive indifference if not outright hatred is the rule)
The worst loss is...
MONEY - INCOME - INVESTMENTS (the most feared and devastating loss in America !)
The love of money is the root of all evil and so it is preached in our churches - perfecting a form of religion, but denying the power of it.
Jesus is the pillar of our lives and the source of our support.
The gospel of grace is the only message worth hearing.
The rest is simply a waste of time.
PS
When the gospel of prosperity is preached, one is usually asked to give a donation.
PPS
When the gospel of grace is preached, one is usually invited to receive Christ (freely).
Not a loss of ...
military superiority (we need to cut back on our invasions).
our health (important but not top priority).
our possessions (all the toys we own).
food (many of us NEED to skip a meal).
our appearance (millions for fashion - pennies for charity)
our homes (owe too much? - abandon it and start elsewhere)
our children (abandoned, ignored, unwanted and legally murdered)
God (passive indifference if not outright hatred is the rule)
The worst loss is...
MONEY - INCOME - INVESTMENTS (the most feared and devastating loss in America !)
The love of money is the root of all evil and so it is preached in our churches - perfecting a form of religion, but denying the power of it.
Jesus is the pillar of our lives and the source of our support.
The gospel of grace is the only message worth hearing.
The rest is simply a waste of time.
PS
When the gospel of prosperity is preached, one is usually asked to give a donation.
PPS
When the gospel of grace is preached, one is usually invited to receive Christ (freely).
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Well, Miss Hepburn - we were bound to disagree at some point. I do not care about Joyce Meyer's teachings enough to continue, all I can say is that I am utterly shock that she has gotten as far as she has. I am glad that she speaks to you in a positive way.
Peace
Peace
There is nothing wrong with being wealthy. It is the LOVE of wealth that is evil. Abraham and Job were VERY wealthy.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
There is nothing wrong with a Christian being prosperous. God gave us MANY promises.
Mark 11:24 (KJV)
[sup]24 [/sup]Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
Mark 11:24 (KJV)
[sup]24 [/sup]Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Money is not the problem, but the PG preaches a love of wealth - in fact, it is exalted so highly it falsely becomes a litmus test for faith by PG leaders and followers. Joyce Meyers is
proud of her gold toilet seat - in her mind it is a signal that she is right with God.......
The love of wealth is certainly WRONG! She really has a gold toilet seat? Sounds like Jim and Tammy who used to cry on TV begging for donations. I'm not familiar with modern TV ministries. I quit watching that many years ago.
I AGREESeems pretty clear to me - Do not worry about your food or shelter, remembering
our Father takes care of even the birdies.
Do not be afraid,
Cast you cares
Give Him your burdens
Delight in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart (of course by this time your
desires are pretty refined to only wanting HIM! Ha!)
Jesus came for us to have an abundant life - I'd say in everything - an abundance of happiness, success of every kind.
Prosperity in health, happiness and being taken care of with no worries of any kind - might be different than what
you're after - but it still fits.
I believe Jesus taught us secrets to how this Universe works -as in Ask, knock... door opens. Believe and receive, know that
you already have it. Say to this mountain...James said - You have not, because you ask not.
Paul wrote to the Romans - He who did not spare His own Son....how will He not, along with Him, graciously give us all things?
Things are things.
I know that alot of TV guys talk about prosperity and if Mike Murdock asks for another 300 people to give $1000 my thumb
will get sore clicking the channel -but it is working for me - believe, ask, receive...Sow and reap.
Confess it and possess it.
It does work.
It all glorifies God.
But I figure you want to take an opposite view - knock yourself out.
I'll stick with my positive view, like I said, it's workin'.
I believe God wants me healthy, clear, positive and taken care of abundantly;
with no worries.
Jesus did not die for me to be poor, unhealthy, struggling, depressed, unhappy and suffer.
I'm the daughter of a KING! A joint heir with Christ...I expect nothing less than to be taken care of
as His child; I accept my inheritance. So far so good.
