Justified Away From Sin

marks · Mar 3, 2021

@Hidden In Him

Romans 6:6-11

6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

As much as I love the King James Version, this is one place where they didn't actually translate. They substituted a word instead. I realize why. They were trying to find a way to express the meaning of the verse.

Here in verse 7, the original doesn't actually say, "is freed from sin". It says, "For the dead one has been justified away from sin."

To justify is to declare or render just, righteous. The one accused of crime is justified when it is determined no crime has been committed. Yes, he was speeding, but he was taking her to the hospital, it was an emergency. But what about when there was crime committed?

All haved sinned, and fallen short of God's glory, so how can I be justified without making God a liar? Answer, By making me a new man.

Paul has just been explaining how when we are baptised into Jesus Christ, we are united to Him in death and burial and resurrection, so that we can live a new life.

Our old man is crucified, the body of sin literally “rendered powerless”, freeing us from slavery to sin,

“For the one who died is justified away from sin.”
“He became sin, Who knew no sin, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”
“If any be in Christ, he is a new creature, old things are passed away, Behold! All is become new! Now all is of God!”
“And put on the new man, which is created patterned after God, in righteousness and true holiness.”
“I have been co-crucifed with Christ, and I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me, and the life I live, I live by the faith of the Son of God, Who loved me, and gave Himself for me.”

“Yet not I, but Christ lives in me.”
“It is no more I, but sin that lives in me.”

My life, the life of the new creature, is Jesus' life lived in me. This life is characterized by Love, and Joy, and Peace, Patience, Faithfulness, Gentleness, Kindness, Self-Control.

The life of my flesh continues as it was. Except that I have the power to override it by walking in the Spirit.

The one who has died has been righteoused away from sin. Sin is condemned in the flesh, put to death on the cross, and buried in the grave. I am alive in Christ, born from God, and my only relation to the old man is that I use his body.

I think Godly thoughts, ungodly thoughts come from the flesh-man, so I'm to take every thought captive.

Much love!

Hidden In Him · Mar 3, 2021

marks said:
All haved sinned, and fallen short of God's glory, so how can I be justified without making God a liar? Answer, By making me a new man.

Or by dying, which is what the verse states actually does it.

Got some things going on atm, but just responding to get the ball rolling. I think the point of the verse is that a dead man has been justified from sin because he has paid the price for it by dying; I dying to the old man that was the problem to begin with.

Your thoughts?

I'll try to get back to the rest in a bit. And good morning!

marks · Mar 3, 2021

Hidden In Him said:
Or by dying, which is what the verse states actually does it.

By death and resurrection. We are both separated from our sins and from the source of our sin, and are remade into something that does not sin.

Hidden In Him said:
I think the point of the verse is that a dead man has been justified from sin because he has paid the price for it by dying;

Romans 6:8-12
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

We are dead to sin, but not that only, we are alive unto God. The relationship we once had with sin, we now have with righteousness.

There's the transaction concerning our sin, we were guilty, and now we are not. Jesus' death paid the penalty, I survive death by dying in Him, Jesus is my Ark.

There is also a transaction concerning who and what I am. I was dead in sin, now I am dead to sin. I was dead to God, now I am alive to God.

He goes on, "Therefore, don't let sin reign in you mortal body", that's where sin reigns, btw, the mortal body. We don't have to obey it because we've been separated from it by death and resurrection.

Sudden feelings of fear or wrongful anger, for instance, are fleshy feelings, and we are under no obligation to accept them as our own. Desires for evil things are fleshy desires, not spirit desires.

The mind of the flesh is a product of the flesh. The mind of Christ is not based on the neural pathways of the flesh, which can be scrammbled and fractured and all sorts of corruption. The mind of Christ comes from the Spirit, Who is perfect in all ways.

Much love!

And good morning to you!!

Hidden In Him · Mar 3, 2021

marks said:
Paul has just been explaining how when we are baptised into Jesus Christ, we are united to Him in death and burial and resurrection, so that we can live a new life.

Right, with baptism representing the death of the old man and the old life.

marks said:
Our old man is crucified, the body of sin literally “rendered powerless”, freeing us from slavery to sin,

“For the one who died is justified away from sin.”
“He became sin, Who knew no sin, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”
“If any be in Christ, he is a new creature, old things are passed away, Behold! All is become new! Now all is of God!”
“And put on the new man, which is created patterned after God, in righteousness and true holiness.”
“I have been co-crucifed with Christ, and I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me, and the life I live, I live by the faith of the Son of God, Who loved me, and gave Himself for me.”

Here is where we get into the whole can of worms. You'd have to show me where "rendered powerless" is, and what exactly you mean by it. I think the meaning of the passage is that Paul was saying he has personally allowed the death of the old man to take effect, and for Christ to live in him, hence his life is a fulfillment of his theology in a practical way. But as is often the difference between us, I don't read it as him talking about the state of every Christian. What he said to the Corinthians comes to mind, where he told them they were still carnal, and thus could only receive the milk of the word (1 Corinthians 3:1-3)

Hidden In Him · Mar 3, 2021

marks said:
By death and resurrection. We are both separated from our sins and from the source of our sin, and are remade into something that does not sin.

Something tells me we may get lost again.

marks said:
Romans 6:8-12
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

We are dead to sin, but not that only, we are alive unto God. The relationship we once had with sin, we now have with righteousness.

There's the transaction concerning our sin, we were guilty, and now we are not. Jesus' death paid the penalty, I survive death by dying in Him

Yes. But now how do you define the words "by dying in Him"? Do you believe it has to be a practical reality in our lives for it to be actually true, or do you think it is something that should be taken purely on faith?

marks · Mar 3, 2021

Hidden In Him said:
Right, with baptism representing the death of the old man and the old life.

I don't see baptism as a representation. That is, water baptism would be a representation, but I think we are immersed into Christ so that we share in His death and resurrection.

I realize that where Paul wrote, I have been co-crucified with Christ, someone may assert Paul is giving his personal testimony, which may not be shared by others.

However, going back to Romans 6, Paul writes,

Romans 6:3-4
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

This is all begun with being immersed into Jesus. We are immersed into Jesus, and this includes His death and burial. And means we "should" walk in newness of life.

Much love!

marks · Mar 3, 2021

Hidden In Him said:
You'd have to show me where "rendered powerless" is, and what exactly you mean by it. I think the meaning of the passage is that Paul was saying he has personally allowed the death of the old man to take effect, and for Christ to live in him, hence his life is a fulfillment of his theology in a practical way. But as is often the difference between us, I don't read it as him talking about the state of every Christian. What he said to the Corinthians comes to mind, where he told them they were still carnal, and thus could only receive the milk of the word (1 Corinthians 3:1-3)

Here in katargethe, may be being nullified. Maybe you could say, "cast down into idleness". Various translations use different words, I like "rendered powerless". Others say, "made of no effect", "made useless", "done away with", "destroyed".

I think "made of no effect" probably best captures it. Rendered powerless is more phenomenal language to me, that is, it describes for me what I experience. For me the issue is, what power does the flesh have over me? And the answer is, none.

Hidden In Him said:
Yes. But now how do you define the words "by dying in Him"? Do you believe it has to be a practical reality in our lives for it to be actually true, or do you think it is something that should be taken purely on faith?

Does it have to be a practical reality in our lives to be true in reality?

I don't "feel" entirely dead to my flesh, but I accept on faith that I am. And that faith is what then allows me to live as one alive from among the dead. Because we live according to what we believe.

If we believe we are still trying to die to the flesh, to become "more crucified", then we will live in the belief that we are partly dead and partly alive. And our lives will reflect that conflicted view.

We walk by faith not by sight.

Though my sins testify against me, that I am a sinner, Jesus intercedes, not to ignore or excuse my bad behavior, but to certify that my sin is condemned in the flesh, but I am alive in the spirit, and these are entirely different things.

I don't think we become more crucified, or more justified, or more alive in Christ than is given us when we come to faith, when we are reborn. And I don't see reborn as a long process that we hope to complete in our lives. I know some see that, some see rebirth granted after we die if we please God. But to be clear I see rebirth being when we believe in Jesus, receiving Him, as in John 1, that God justifies us based on our believing, and that He does this not only judicially as in the OT, but also practically, through Jesus' death and resurrection which we share.

After that it's a matter of learning, and being trained to think according to God's Word, in the new man, according to the mind of Christ, while the mind of the flesh continues on.

It seems the more I come to hear the mind of Christ, the less I hear the mind of the flesh. It's all about recognizing, this thought, this flinching away from opening this bill - I know how much they want!! - this is the flesh mind giving it's historical response of fear over being unable to control. I reject that thought, that flinching away, knowing that God has promised to take care of me in all regards.

Casting your cares upon Him, because YOU are what He cares about!

If I don't take that thought captive, the flinch becomes a feeling, and the feeling festers and permeates until I'm consumed with worry and dread. And at any time, I can choose to reject that entire paradigm, because I've been crucified with Christ, and that's not me anymore.

Much love!

Nancy · Mar 3, 2021

marks said:
@Hidden In Him

Romans 6:6-11

6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

As much as I love the King James Version, this is one place where they didn't actually translate. They substituted a word instead. I realize why. They were trying to find a way to express the meaning of the verse.

View attachment 13687

Here in verse 7, the original doesn't actually say, "is freed from sin". It says, "For the dead one has been justified away from sin."

To justify is to declare or render just, righteous. The one accused of crime is justified when it is determined no crime has been committed. Yes, he was speeding, but he was taking her to the hospital, it was an emergency. But what about when there was crime committed?

All haved sinned, and fallen short of God's glory, so how can I be justified without making God a liar? Answer, By making me a new man.

Paul has just been explaining how when we are baptised into Jesus Christ, we are united to Him in death and burial and resurrection, so that we can live a new life.

Our old man is crucified, the body of sin literally “rendered powerless”, freeing us from slavery to sin,

“For the one who died is justified away from sin.”
“He became sin, Who knew no sin, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”
“If any be in Christ, he is a new creature, old things are passed away, Behold! All is become new! Now all is of God!”
“And put on the new man, which is created patterned after God, in righteousness and true holiness.”
“I have been co-crucifed with Christ, and I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me, and the life I live, I live by the faith of the Son of God, Who loved me, and gave Himself for me.”

“Yet not I, but Christ lives in me.”
“It is no more I, but sin that lives in me.”

My life, the life of the new creature, is Jesus' life lived in me. This life is characterized by Love, and Joy, and Peace, Patience, Faithfulness, Gentleness, Kindness, Self-Control.

The life of my flesh continues as it was. Except that I have the power to override it by walking in the Spirit.

The one who has died has been righteoused away from sin. Sin is condemned in the flesh, put to death on the cross, and buried in the grave. I am alive in Christ, born from God, and my only relation to the old man is that I use his body.

I think Godly thoughts, ungodly thoughts come from the flesh-man, so I'm to take every thought captive.

Much love!

Hi Marks,
Liked your post and had me thinking that, if we are being led by His Spirit then, we would all be too busy bearing His fruit to even be able to sin

- not that we would ever 'want' to.

marks · Mar 4, 2021

Nancy said:
Hi Marks,
Liked your post and had me thinking that, if we are being led by His Spirit then, we would all be too busy bearing His fruit to even be able to sin - not that we would ever 'want' to.

That's exactly it.

If we walk in the Spirit, we will not do the works of the flesh. We have one body, and if the mind of Christ is in control, there is no place for the flesh to get in there.

The flesh is ALWAYS a usurper in the Christian, as the Spirit has given us eternal life, which will always trump over it.

Something Andrew Farley said that really resonated with me . . . What if we already do want what is good, and already don't want to do evil? Something like that. He's completely correct on that, I think! Our new creation is perfect in Christ. As righteous as Jesus is, so are we in the new man, because we were born that way.

Much love!

Nancy · Mar 4, 2021

marks said:
That's exactly it.

If we walk in the Spirit, we will not do the works of the flesh. We have one body, and if the mind of Christ is in control, there is no place for the flesh to get in there.

The flesh is ALWAYS a usurper in the Christian, as the Spirit has given us eternal life, which will always trump over it.

Something Andrew Farley said that really resonated with me . . . What if we already do want what is good, and already don't want to do evil? Something like that. He's completely correct on that, I think! Our new creation is perfect in Christ. As righteous as Jesus is, so are we in the new man, because we were born that way.

Much love!

Yes, well put, and agreed.
"No way for the flesh to get in there" <---- For sure! It all starts in the mind and, one little opening, small as can be, the flesh AND Satan will fill that opening right quick! That is such a truth. Guard our minds!! We have to be very careful what we allow in there as, it can grow into a huge monster

Andrew Farley, love him. Don't always agree 100% on ALL things with him but, for the most part, yes I do agree with him. He's an awesome teacher and I recall him saying allot something like "Once you become a child of God, you realize one day that you just do not enjoy sinning anymore, He has changed your "want's".

God bless bro

Hidden In Him · Mar 4, 2021

marks said:
Romans 6:3-4
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

This is all begun with being immersed into Jesus. We are immersed into Jesus, and this includes His death and burial. And means we "should" walk in newness of life.

Greetings brother in Christ!

Listen my apologies for the late replies. I'm slowing down right now, so I may be a lot more few and far between (not eating).

About this, glorious scriptures. But now, when we partake of water baptism, what we are doing is symbolizing the death of the old man. My question to you is, what about the man who doesn't die to himself, even though he partook of water baptism? Do the above scriptures still apply to him?

marks said:
Here in katargethe, may be being nullified. Maybe you could say, "cast down into idleness". Various translations use different words, I like "rendered powerless". Others say, "made of no effect", "made useless", "done away with", "destroyed".

I think "made of no effect" probably best captures it. Rendered powerless is more phenomenal language to me, that is, it describes for me what I experience. For me the issue is, what power does the flesh have over me? And the answer is, none.

Ah. Ok, καταργηθῇ. We would be dealing with one of the tougher words to translate into English, but in general the word means "to leave unemployed or idle." In Romans 6:6, it means essentially that, "left idle," in that the old man is essentially out of a job. Only "rendered powerless" might be taking things a bit too far, IMO. I looked up Liddell-Scott, and they never render it this way - not that that's the end all, be all, but they base their definitions on the use of words throughout all Greek, not just NT Greek. If you take "rendered powerless" to mean that the old man can't still sin anymore then we would have to disagree, but I honestly don't think you do, so I am more arguing with your terminology is all. I think the old man can still sin like crazy, but its problem is that it is no longer in charge.

marks said:
Does it have to be a practical reality in our lives to be true in reality?

I don't "feel" entirely dead to my flesh, but I accept on faith that I am.

Ewe... See here is where we are still at odds. I'm not accepting anything on faith when it comes to this. I want to see it become reality. I realize you believe the power of faith can make it a reality, but for me that just doesn't seem to sit well for some reason. Maybe I am wrong about that, but say for instance, sexual urges: I don't think any amount of "believing" is going to deal with it. If you truly want to bring it under, it will take action; it will take fasting it down to where the sex drive utterly diminishes physically. See what I mean?

I could respond to the rest, but maybe I'll just hold on and we discuss the above part first. Like I said, I'm wearing down.

God bless, and hope you are having a great Thursday!
- C

Hidden In Him · Mar 4, 2021

Nancy said:
Hi Marks,
Liked your post and had me thinking that, if we are being led by His Spirit then, we would all be too busy bearing His fruit to even be able to sin - not that we would ever 'want' to.

In theory, yes Nancy, and it has been a dream of mine for decades.

But in practice, this is not as easy to accomplish as it sounds.

marks said:
That's exactly it.

If we walk in the Spirit, we will not do the works of the flesh. We have one body, and if the mind of Christ is in control, there is no place for the flesh to get in there.

Ok, but now let's get real for a second. Have you attained to a life where you are walking in the Spirit continually yet? I'm not saying it isn't theoretically possible, but I don't hold it to be an easy thing to do in the least. Very difficult in fact, IMO.

Nancy said:
Yes, well put, and agreed.
"No way for the flesh to get in there" <---- For sure! It all starts in the mind

Bah!! LoL. Don't take offense with me disagreeing with you, Nancy. Mark and I are getting along better these days, so these are polite discussions. But now, this is where I have big problems with Behold's theology. He holds the mind to be the primary factor in the spiritual life; I hold the Spirit to be, and I don't think he has a good answer for me. One can "think" all the right ways, but if one does not have the Spirit within him or her to back it up and make it a reality, nothing good will come from it. I spent some years involved in faith thinking, and this what they stress; the mind. But the mind is powerless without the Spirit.

Good discussion. I'll check back.

marks · Mar 4, 2021

Hidden In Him said:
Listen my apologies for the late replies. I'm slowing down right now, so I may be a lot more few and far between (not eating).

No worries! The Lord will bring the feast in His timing!

Hidden In Him said:
About this, glorious scriptures. But now, when we partake of water baptism, what we are doing is symbolizing the death of the old man. My question to you is, what about the man who doesn't die to himself, even though he partook of water baptism? Do the above scriptures still apply to him?

Leaving water baptism aside, I'm looking at Spirit baptism into Christ. When we are baptized into Christ, we ARE crucified with Him. We are separated from our flesh in death and burial, and by virtue of becoming a different person. Not changed person, as if I'm the flesh man, and the flesh man turned into the spirit man, rather, there is a new spirit man while there had only been the flesh man. Now there are two men, Adam and Christ, or, old man and new man.

So the dying to myself is what Jesus did when He was crucified. He died to sin once for all, and I died in Him, and am equally dead to sin, and equally alive to God.

Hidden In Him said:
Ah. Ok, καταργηθῇ. We would be dealing with one of the tougher words to translate into English, but in general the word means "to leave unemployed or idle." In Romans 6:6, it means essentially that, "left idle," in that the old man is essentially out of a job. Only "rendered powerless" might be taking things a bit too far, IMO. I looked up Liddell-Scott, and they never render it this way - not that that's the end all, be all, but they base their definitions on the use of words throughout all Greek, not just NT Greek. If you take "rendered powerless" to mean that the old man can't still sin anymore then we would have to disagree, but I honestly don't think you do, so I am more arguing with your terminology is all. I think the old man can still sin like crazy, but its problem is that it is no longer in charge.

I know, I'm cherry picking my translation in "rendered powerless", it's more the affect for the word than a direct meaning of the word.

I've taken to using it because it works for me in keeping in mind I'm free, and also, people aren't as familiar with the wording, or so it seems, and I tend to draw more questions that way. And this is one of my favorite passages to discuss with people.

I don't mean that the old man can't sin, I maintain that's all the old man CAN do is sin. But that's only if left to it's own devices. If we are walking in the Spirit, the fruit of the Spirit is manifest in our lives, including self control, and peace, and joy.

I quite agree with you, the flesh will sin, but it doesn't have the power over me that I have to allow it.

Hidden In Him said:
Ewe... See here is where we are still at odds. I'm not accepting anything on faith when it comes to this. I want to see it become reality. I realize you believe the power of faith can make it a reality, but for me that just doesn't seem to sit well for some reason. Maybe I am wrong about that, but say for instance, sexual urges: I don't think any amount of "believing" is going to deal with it. If you truly want to bring it under, it will take action; it will take fasting it down to where the sex drive utterly diminishes physically. See what I mean?

I do see what you mean, but I don't agree with you here.

I have clinical depression, which is an antiseptic way of saying I lack mental resources primarily in the way of neurotransmitters which control emotional response and mood, pain thresholds, energy level and attention span, things like that. Seratonin, Endorphins, Dopamine, stuff like that can get in short supply. It's a chemical thing. If I don't sleep well, if I have extra stressors, many factors, and suddenly I'm in a downward spiral, or sudden anger, or any number of things.

Here's what I've learned.

The flesh mind derives from the flesh body, and is anchored to the flesh. I know there's more to it than just that, but that's the essence. It is a terrestrial creature suited for this terrestrial realm, it's home.

The new creation is "seated in the heavenlies", "hid with Christ in God", we are celestial creatures. Our mind does not derive from our bodies, instead, it derives from something else, something celestial, born from God. We incarnate our bodies like Jesus did His.

Yesterday, coming home from work, I could feel myself entering into that chemical state. My mood was quickly deteriorating into frustration and impatience, the thing is, when I get like that, there are all sorts of ways it comes out, ranging from a whole spate of negative emotions, inappropriate responses, cravings for carbs, for drugs, for anthing to soothe. Energy goes away. Everything hurts, aches, seems hopeless. I may scream, I may cry, I may tell my wife at Christmas dinner with the family that I am so sick of my life that I just want out! That was an interesting moment!

But coming back to yesterday. I felt that tipping point, and by the time I'm walking that block and a half from my parking spot, I'm realizing the darkness is falling on me, and I don't want that. And I don't have to have that, because my mind is not tethered to the chemical imbalances in my brain. I'm not in flesh, I'm in Spirit. So I reminded myself of these things, and chose to walk in the Spirit, because depression too easily leads me into things I do not want to do.

Doctors try to address this with reuptake inhibitors, things like that, because they know that what is happening is the brain wants the chemical boost of a good rage, because it's low on something. Or a lust-fest, or whatever. These cause chemical events in the brain that the brain can crave in the same way you crave french fries when you are low on salt.

And though this is a physical malady, it's effect is in my mind, and mood, and these are likewise controlled by the Spirit. Reminding myself is choosing to walk in faith that this is true, the thing is, I walked in my front door as one not suffering from depression, and had a great evening with my wife, though I could still tell the malaise with my flesh. But it didn't control how I was thinking, and acting, and feeling.

I had to stay focused. But as we get these thoughts fixed in our minds, it gets easier. The pull from the flesh can be strong, and can creep up on me. But by trusting that the thoughts and feelings in my mind are not controlled by the corruption of my flesh, it was so. I was free. My mind was unhindered by the flesh, and it was a good and Godly evening.

Having depression has been a wonderful experience towards understanding how these things work. It goes a lot deeper than what I've already said. My derpression has it's roots in the abuses of childhood, and the damage done is in the same kind as the abuse. Violence begets anger, neglect begets worthlessness, on it goes. And some abuses beget all manner of evils! These become woven into the fabric of the brain as the child develops.

Triggers and triggering physiological conditions can cause the rise of feelings and urges and cravings and all manner of temptations. But these are just like the fatigue or frustration of my depression. These are corruptions of my flesh that present themselves as "I feel, I want, I need, I can't stand, I have to", all vying to have their particular "need" met.

When the desires for evil things come to my mind, I know they are feelings and thoughts of the flesh, and that my mind is not the flesh mind, therefore, my mind is free from these, and I turn my mind towards my Father, and it IS free from these. They fade away.

I may need to take extra effort to stay focused, depending on the strength of what may be happening. But I don't try to diminish the power or effect of my corrupt flesh, I know it's power is already over, because I'm someone else. Someone New. Someone not bound to my flesh, or its corruption.

And as I go deeper and deeper into Scripture, this is exactly what I find God to be teaching me. The mind must be renewed. Sin is in the flesh, but it has no power over me. By faith I overcome everything.

Sorry to go on so long! Sometimes it's hard to know how to tell my story.

Much love!

marks · Mar 4, 2021

Hidden In Him said:
Ok, but now let's get real for a second. Have you attained to a life where you are walking in the Spirit continually yet? I'm not saying it isn't theoretically possible, but I don't hold it to be an easy thing to do in the least. Very difficult in fact, IMO.

I know I'm not, but I don't think I can know if I am, if you know what I mean. Living without a consciousness of sin is not necessarily the same thing as living without any sin.

That I've found is that in knowing that I am fully reconciled to God, no matter what I were to do, this is the faith that opens my heart wide to God, to rejoice in Him, because He has fully accepted me, nothing to do with anything I do or don't do, purely based on Jesus' death and resurrection, and my faith in Him.

In the joy of His acceptance, of His love, in basking in His love, filling with His love, so late in my life, but I'm learning to love Him back, but He's so warm and light and loving I just get so, well, these darknesses and spots of the flesh are just so far away!

When evil passions rise, whatever they are, for me, I look to God to give me life apart from them, and He does.

Much love!

Behold · Mar 4, 2021

------

marks · Mar 4, 2021

Hidden In Him said:
He holds the mind to be the primary factor in the spiritual life; I hold the Spirit to be, and I don't think he has a good answer for me. One can "think" all the right ways, but if one does not have the Spirit within him or her to back it up and make it a reality, nothing good will come from it. I spent some years involved in faith thinking, and this what they stress; the mind. But the mind is powerless without the Spirit.

The point I want to emphasize is that the flesh mind will never get there from here, it is only when we are reborn, and have a new mind, that we can then bring that new mind to bear in our lives. Again, be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.

Much love!

Behold · Mar 4, 2021

marks said:
@Hidden In Him

As much as I love the King James Version, this is one place where they didn't actually translate. They substituted a word instead. I realize why. They were trying to find a way to express the meaning of the verse.

Here in verse 7, the original doesn't actually say, "is freed from sin". It says, "For the dead one has been justified away from sin."

t

Hummm.

Do you read Koine Greek? Im curious.

So ......

Freed = Justified.

The context is... The penalty for sin.

What's the penalty? The penalty is damnation for you, or The Cross for Jesus.

Jesus accepts God's will, and takes all the blame for the sin of the world, thus accruing the judgement that we all deserve, so that by this justification, we go FREE..

So, if Jesus takes the judgment due you on The Cross, then when you meet God you are freed from being Judged by God because God's requirements for resolving the judgement for sin and unbelief that you deserve.... have been met by Jesus, which Justifies you.

So, you are made free, because you are justified by Jesus's slaughter.

So, to be justified FROM Judgement, is the same as being Made Free from Judgement.
Justification is freedom and being made free is to be justified.
The same One who is freeing you from going to hell is the same One who is justifying your freeing...
You are justified based on being made free from the penalty.

So, the KJV has taken the Greek and make it theologically perfect in this expounding.

marks · Mar 4, 2021

Behold said:
Hummm.

Do you read Koine Greek? Im curious.

My Greek reading is somewhat limited, I do OK on some passages, others not so much. I use helps.

So ......

Freed = Justified.

Not exactly. A result of being justified is freedom. Freedom from the guilt of sin by virtue of joining in Jesus' death, and freedom from the power of sin by virtue of sharing His resurrection, a new creation.

But justified itself means to be rendered righteous.

We been rendered righteous away from sin, not in penalty only, but in who we are.

Much love!

Behold · Mar 4, 2021

marks said:
My Greek reading is somewhat limited, I do OK on some passages, others not so much. I use helps.

Not exactly. A result of being justified is freedom. Freedom from the guilt of sin by virtue of joining in Jesus' death, and freedom from the power of sin by virtue of sharing His resurrection, a new creation.

But justified itself means to be rendered righteous.

We been rendered righteous away from sin, not in penalty only, but in who we are.

Much love!

Ok, then im going to conclude that your greek reading, is actually reading others explain the greek, that you have accepted.
So, does that qualify you to cast your doubting opinion on the KJV, on a public forum?
What would cause you to feel that you need to take it upon yourself to become the authority who needs to correct the KJV in Public?
You're a bible corrector now,???? and yet you can barely read the "original", when in fact there is no original Greek text, there are 30 Greek Texts.
Which one are you using? The Received? Nestles?

You just stated that the KJV is wrong, and you are right, yet...are you genuinely qualified in Greek Manuscript Evidence to be the authority over the KJV, on this forum, or anywhere?
Are you on "Greek Translator" level? If not why are you trying to teach the Greek vs The KJV on a Christian Forum?

Consider what i just said.
And im not trying to be too hard on you, but the Church does not need one more bible corrector who is not skilled in Greek or manuscript evidence, as its infested with these already.
What it needs is just a few more to lead people to the Cross, instead of those who would try to cause believers to DOUBT the Word of God.

Ill talk to you more tomorrow.
Its getting late

<B><

marks · Mar 4, 2021

Behold said:
You just stated that the KJV is wrong, and you are right, yet...

Draw your own conclusions regarding the translation of dikaioo, and how the KJV translators rendered the word.

We need not go back and forth over that word, we can look at what I'm saying from other passages, I find this in many places.

If any be in Christ he is a new creation. Old things are passed away, Behold! All is become new! Now all is of God!

To be honest, I'm less concerned over which translation I'm quoting from or whether I'm looking at Greek texts, or looking at interlinears with all the study helps, I'm concerned with understanding the truth of the Bible.

My friend, I did not say the KJV was wrong. I said that in this place, they didn't translate, they substituted a word. And that's exactly true. And I said I understood why they did, and yet, I find that sometimes there is more about a text than readily appears in a particular translation.

I'm hungry for everything I can receive from God, and those things I receive, I like to share.

Much love!

Justified Away From Sin

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