Something New
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It goes without saying. So how could this be "something new"?
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Yes.
"sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned" Romans 5:12
The fall into sin is why we have death.
Can you clarify whether or not you are referring to the second or the physical death first, because the second death is the consequence of sinning against God's Statutes.
God did warn them first about the consequences of sinning before they did.
God did warn them first about the consequences of sinning before they did.
Glen55
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When I speak of Jesus, I am not speaking of some holy person as the world calls holy. The true story of Jesus is not as the churches teach. Their teaching is as far removed from the truth as Dante’s “Inferno” is from The Sermon on the Mount. Dante had the capacity to spin beautiful worlds together, but what a state he fell into when he wrote his words. He was supposedly writing scripture and that is what the churches follow, yet it is so completely different from the real, true story of Christ.
Jesus is the very being of everyone in the world. The word “Jesus” means “Jehovah saves,” and there is only one savior. Jesus is He who fell, and He who saves himself. No one else saves you. You are saved by your own being. Becoming aware, you begin to remember; and remembering, you turn around and come out of the very play in which you sent yourself. And in the end all are united to form once again the single being that fell. The Lord God Jehovah, containing all, fell into diversity. In the end not one will be lost, but all will be gathered into the unity that is the Lord Jesus Christ. That is the story. death is lower level sleep that is defeated by waking up.
Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. Who is in everyone no matter what they believe.
If a human being was somehow not effected by sin nature, would they eventually die physically?
To clarify. I am referring to the fall of Adam & Eve in the Garden of Eden that caused sin and death to enter our world.
Do you find yourself in a uphill battle Theologically with most other Christian's?
You have avoided answering my question without being ambiguous .
I believe that with the fall, the second death entered into consideration at the time of the Great White Throne Room Judgements of all of mankind, at the end of the Age of the Ages. This is what God said would happen in Genesis 2:17 and is what we are told will happen in the Book of Revelations
Physical death was already the design in the creation of mankind. For God said to Adam: -
Genesis 3:19: -
19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return."
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return."
Shalom
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Yes.
14Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam... Romans 5:14
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
You are correct, churches do not teach your version of Jesus and universal salvation. Your teaching is of another faith, not orthodox Christianity. We teach this......
22Then Jesus traveled throughout the towns and villages, teaching as He made His way toward Jerusalem. 23“Lord,” someone asked Him, “will only a few people be saved?”
Jesus answered, 24“Make every effort to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able. 25After the master of the house gets up and shuts the door, you will stand outside knocking and saying, ‘Lord, open the door for us.’
But he will reply, ‘I do not know where you are from.’26Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’27And he will answer, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from. Depart from me, all you evildoers.’28There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves are thrown out. 29People will come from east and west and north and south, and will recline at the table in the kingdom of God. 30And indeed, some who are last will be first, and some who are first will be last.” Luke 13:22-30
Jesus answered, 24“Make every effort to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able. 25After the master of the house gets up and shuts the door, you will stand outside knocking and saying, ‘Lord, open the door for us.’
But he will reply, ‘I do not know where you are from.’26Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’27And he will answer, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from. Depart from me, all you evildoers.’28There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves are thrown out. 29People will come from east and west and north and south, and will recline at the table in the kingdom of God. 30And indeed, some who are last will be first, and some who are first will be last.” Luke 13:22-30
Compare this to Matthew 7:13. This is why we in orthodox Christianity believe only a few will be saved, not everybody.
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Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
For us it goes without saying. But @Looking4Me has listed his faith as 'Other Faith'. Let's help him understand why we believe what we do. Same for @Glen55 who has also listed himself as 'Other Faith'.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
I found this to be utterly false. I became aware that I was lost and did not belong to God and that I would not go to be with Jesus when I died. But the bigger realization was I could do nothing about it, even though I tried. And so I fell on the mercy of God and he forgave me the sins that had separated me from Him. He saved me. I did not, and could not, save myself. The only way to be saved is to beg for God's forgiveness for the sins you have committed. He will forgive you and give you a new heart and a new spirit that longs after righteousness. And so you will be saved. That is how you enter into the narrow door and walk the narrow path that leads to life.
Let's look at this honestly.
[Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden free from the knowledge of good or evil. The tree of life was there in the midst of the Garden which neither of them ate. The Serpent did lure Eve to take from the tree of knowledge. Eve carried the knowledge to Adam, then they were both corrupted. God (The Lord God) explained that their actions would now have serious consequences. Adam and Eve eventually had to be removed from the Garden to prevent them from access to the tree of life]
GENESIS CHAPTER 3 KJV
Adam and Eve never took the fruit from the tree of life (Before or After the fall itself) So is death natural in Gods perfect order?
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
I think what Paul means is a person who has not sinned in the manner of Adam and Eve.
14Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam... Romans 5:14
So I don't think he's talking about a person who has never sinned and is perfectly sinless. Because Paul does refer to the fact that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God....
23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God Romans 3:23
So the question is, "what's so different about Adam's sin from other sin?"
Fair enough. At the time God created Adam He warned him (and Eve through him) that on the day that they would eat from the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, they would SURELY die. Since they disobeyed, the curse of sin and death came upon all mankind.
Therefore God sent His Only Begotten Son -- Jesus Christ -- to reverse the damage caused by Adam and Eve. Now eternal life is a GIFT from God to those who will repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. The gift is there because Christ Himself paid the price for that gift. Jesus, as the Lamb of God on the cross of Calvary, took away the sin of the world. He died and rose again so that sinners could receive eternal life. Those who disregard or disobey the Gospel will die in their sins.
I thought physical death was apart of the fall and the consequence of sin. Why or how did Jesus die exactly?
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