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justbyfaith

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This false statement makes you a liar and you know it...

It is no lie.

Your Ezekiel verses are not talking about Eternal matters.....there is no Gospel in them.....no Grace...it’s all Pre-Cross Law and mostly just common sense —- quit doing bad stuff and I won’t have to punish you—it’s not verses directed to New Creations...

Right. It is directed to those who are not yet born again and given as a means by which they might become born again.

Though they are speaking of eternal matters; and what they teach is an integral part of the gospel; and there is definitely grace in the words in question.

For the true grace of God is set forth in the matter that, after ye have suffered a little while, you will be made perfect, stablished, strengthened, and settled (1 Peter 5:10-12)...and these things are definitely accomplished in those who heed Ezekiel 33:11-20.

God is not going to allow sin into heaven, in order that heaven might truly be heavenly; since sin is the real reason for sorrow, death, and pain in this world...

Every human being is faced with the decision of whether to keep their sin or whether they will relinquish their sins to Jesus as He takes them upon His shoulders, dying on the Cross.

If they choose to keep their sins....well, on the day of judgment, all sin is going to be cast into the lake of fire...and if they have not been separated from their sin through faith in what Jesus did for them on the Cross, they will be cast into the lake of fire along with their sins.

This means that you must repent of your sins and relinquish them to Jesus as He was dying on the Cross, or you will be cast into the lake of fire.

Matthew 13:41-42; Matthew 7:23, Matthew 25:41 make this clear.

“ Doing Good” in the New Testament is all about being obedient — being
Obedient” to the Gospel.....Being obedient to the Gospel means to REST in it.....do that and God will put His Spirit in you and you will “ Find” yourself doing all that Old Testament Stuff that you are concerned about—— including your obsession with Ezekiel ...

Thank you for admitting that I am right to believe Ezekiel's words.

Why don't you?

it’s a great Book....it’s just not where the Born Again Believers in Jesus go to for Doctrine...

All scripture is inspired of the Lord and is profitable for doctrine (2 Timothy 3:16).

If born again believers don't get their doctrine from the holy scriptures, where do they get it?
 
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Eternally Grateful

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Scripture doesn’t say “the doing will come” after you start believing. If it does say that then please show me since I can’t find it.

So what happens to the person when the doing doesn’t come? Scripture makes that clear; faith without works is dead. You can’t have one or the other. If you don’t do the works, the faith means nothing; it’s a DEAD faith.
Scripture is clear. We are saved by grace through the means of faith, not by works, even works of righteousness but by Gods mercy (Eph 2 and titus 3)

and scripture is clear, those saved by faith are created for good works, hebrews 11 shows what happens to those who have true saving faith, when you trust someone, you tend to try to become like them, you do not claim you trust them yet never strive to do anything they say, James calls them people who claim to have faith, yet in reality have no faith period, their faith is dead, lifeless, that’s why they will not work

scripture says he who began a good work will complete it, why don’t you believe this?
 
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Eternally Grateful

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NO Faith will get one damned......Dead Faith will get you no Crowns.....
Dead faith will get you damned

james did not ask if that faith would keep them from getting any crowns, he asked if that faith could save them

how can a faith that is dead save a person? Mere belief never saved anyone, that’s the point James was making, he wanted these people to test their own faith, are you a hearer only and not a doer? If you are, ask yourself why you do not have the works paul in eph 2: 10 said you would have, why is the God yu claimed began a good work in you not completing that work? Why is your faith only belief? Even demons believe and tremble, mere belief never saved anyone

there will be many people in that day who claim all these great works they did in Jesus name, and Jesus will declare, depart from me, I never knew you, these were dead works, because the people had dead faith,their faith was in their works, not Christ,
 
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Eternally Grateful

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Soooo Romans 4 cancels out Romans 2: he will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

Scripture says man is justified by works and not by faith alone but you say he is justified by faith alone. Hmmmmm.....

Bible study time:
Paul does not specifically say works of law in Romans 4:5, but if we read from Romans 3:28 to Romans 4:5 and beyond, the context makes it unmistakable: Paul was referring to circumcision in particular and the same “works of law” he was referring to in Romans 3:28. Romans 4:5-10 will suffice to make the point:

And to one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness . . . Is this blessing pronounced only upon the circumcised, or also upon the uncircumcised? We say that faith was reckoned to Abraham as righteousness. How then was it reckoned to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised.

Bible Study Mary
Nope

gods people who are born again DO THOSE DEEDS, those not born again live in sin

just like John said, whoever has been born of God does not sin whoever sins has never seen God or known him.
The passage you quoted is descriptive not prescriptive, paul did not contradict his own gospel,

scripture says we are saved by grace through faith, and if it is of grace, it is not of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace,

yournworks can no more save you than the work of a Jew obeying the law could save them, if you put your faith in your works, your just as lost s they were,
 

Eternally Grateful

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I quoted it from the kjv. Unfortunately, the Bible program for these boards stopped utilizing the kjv some time ago, I think because some moderator had a bias.

Phl 2:13, For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.



Matthew 10:32 and Luke 12:8 both speak of confessing Jesus before men and that is something that we do when we are baptized in His name; that is an integral part of what baptism is all about.



That is exactly right...and therefore he is not talking merely about works of law...but of works in general.



I know that this is a contention between us that will not soon be rectified.

You deny that Ezekiel 33:11-20 is inspired of the Lord and profitable for doctrine and I do not.

For it is that passage of scripture that tells us that we shall live thereby if we will turn away from wickedness and do what is lawful and right.



Obviously, if I did that I would be denying the veracity of certain scriptures; like you deny the veracity of those scriptures.

Ezekiel 33:11-20 shows us plainly that repentance is something that if we do, we shall live thereby;

And the fact that this does indeed have something to do with "luck" is evident when we compare 1 Corinthians 15:37 and Matthew 13:30.
It’s sad you speak against works yet at the same time preach works.

you contradict yourself, I have to wonder if you are sincere at all. Seems like everytime I see you you are saying something else, why is this?
 

Behold

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doesn’t.

Once again, The Church did not add works to grace. Both are taught and “faith without works is dead”. .

Like all Catholics you believe that the Catholic Church is THE Church, and that is why you say "the church teaches".
Well, here's an update.
Im the church, and i dont teach water cult nonsense.
I teach PAUL, of which your water cult, denies.

Also, dead faith, is not dead salvation.
Its just a person who is backslidden.

Also, works, include getting into a baptismal pool.
Thats a work.
 

Behold

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work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

"your OWN Salvation"... this means its yours, if you are born again, and not just sprinkled and confirmed.
Each Born again has it.. its "the GIFT of Salvation", that has been GIVEN to each born again person.
What is it exactly? ITs the Blood Atonement, and its to have become a "new Creation" "in Christ".

We dont work to keep it, we work it OUT..... We learn how to exist within what we have become, which is "the gift of Salvation" that has made us "ONE with God and Christ".
 

Behold

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Yup, that is the traditional teaching from Christianity.

Horsefeathers.
You know nothing about Catholic Theology.
Listen...
in 1950, Pope Pius XII defined Mary's Assumption into Heaven as a dogma of Roman Catholicism.

So thats how long this lie has been around.
Donald Trump is a couple of years older then this Catholic Lie.
 

VictoryinJesus

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A.) Seducing Spirits and Doctrines of devils . 1st Timothy 4:1

What is a water cult?
Its a "doctrine of devils".. 1st Timothy 4:1

A Water Cult, in the context of Christianity, is a heretical cult theology that believes and teaches that you are born again = by the power of the water.
The heretical verse taken from a corrupted bible.... is this...>"born again BY water". John 3

doctrines of devils...never considered it until reading your post. 1 Timothy 4:1 Lexicon: But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

(only an opinion) but doesn’t Jesus Christ himself speak of those doctrines of demons or devils in John 7:12-24 And there was much murmuring among the people concerning him: for some said, He is a good man: others said, Nay; but he deceiveth the people. [13] Howbeit no man spake openly of him for fear of the Jews. [14] Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught. [15] And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?(another question they could have asked is: how is it this man knoweth hearts) [16] Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. [17] If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. [18] He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. [19] Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me? [20] The people answered and said, Thou hast a devil: who goeth about to kill thee? [21] Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel. [22] Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man. [23] If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day? [24] Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

doctrines of devils, doctrines of demons:
Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, In John 7:12-24 they accused him of being the deceiver, accused him of deceiving and having a devil. If any man will do his will (Luke 22:42-43), he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. [18] He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. (No devil or demon in him).

doctrines of devils, doctrines of demons: doctrines of men: He that speaketh of himself seeks his own glory.

the doctrine of him who sent him, of God

John 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Titus 2:10 Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.
(John 15:8).

2 John 1:7-12 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. [8] Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. [9] Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. [10] If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: [11] For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. [12] Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink(but with the Spirit of the Living God): I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.


Point being the doctrines of devils or demons is the multitudes of the doctrines of men judging after the sight of their eyes. when He told them after they accused him of having a devil: Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Isaiah 11:1-4 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: [2] And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord ; [3] And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord : and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: [4] But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
 
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Behold

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doctrines of devils...never considered it until reading your post. 1 Timothy 4:1 Lexicon: But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

(only an opinion) but doesn’t Jesus Christ himself speak of those doctrines of demons or devils in John 7:12-24 And there was much murmuring among the people concerning him: for some said, He is a good man: others said, Nay; but he deceiveth the people. [13] Howbeit no man spake openly of him for fear of the Jews. [14] Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught. [15] And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?(another question they could have asked is: how is it this man knoweth hearts) [16] Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. [17] If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. [18] He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. [19] Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me? [20] The people answered and said, Thou hast a devil: who goeth about to kill thee? [21] Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel. [22] Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man. [23] If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day? [24] Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

doctrines of devils, doctrines of demons:
Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, In John 7:12-24 they accused him of being the deceiver, accused him of deceiving and having a devil. If any man will do his will (Luke 22:42-43), he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. [18] He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. (No devil or demon in him).

doctrines of devils, doctrines of demons: doctrines of men: He that speaketh of himself seeks his own glory.

the doctrine of him who sent him, of God

John 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Titus 2:10 Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.
(John 15:8).

2 John 1:7-12 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. [8] Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. [9] Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. [10] If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: [11] For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. [12] Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink(but with the Spirit of the Living God): I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.


Point being the doctrines of devils or demons is the multitudes of the doctrines of men judging after the sight of their eyes. when He told them after they accused him of having a devil: Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Isaiah 11:1-4 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: [2] And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord ; [3] And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord : and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: [4] But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

Thank you for actually reading carefully what i wrote.

And yes, all that you stated is found here..

= Hebrews 13:9.

This is THE VERSE that a born again Christian has to live in all their life.
As by doing exactly what that verse instructs, you can protect yourself from deceiving people, who teach all sorts of man made heresy, = "doctrines of devils'..
It where it comes from, and these doctrines all resist truth, and reject the Cross, and contradict the Grace of God.
That's Satan's ministry and its what his ministers do, while they pretend they are a part of real Christianity.

Thats how you recognize these doctrines of devils and the people who teach them.

You build the foundation of your Faith, as Hebrews 13:9 instructs.....and this becomes a HOLY SHIELD against the wiles of the devil who try to fool you with doctrines of devils.
 

Marymog

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Horsefeathers.
You know nothing about Catholic Theology.
Listen...
in 1950, Pope Pius XII defined Mary's Assumption into Heaven as a dogma of Roman Catholicism.

So thats how long this lie has been around.
Donald Trump is a couple of years older then this Catholic Lie.
Lol.....OK...I know nothing about Catholic Theology. You crack me up kiddo.

Let me once again educate you since you refuse to educate yourself.

1. We are talking about "traditional teaching from Christianity" not the 1950 Assumption dogma.
2. There were widespread “Transitus Stories” that date from the sixth century that teach Mary’s Assumption. That time frame is set in stone.
3. There are Syriac fragments that put the tradition as far back as the third century but this is still being debated.

Soooooooo ONCE AGAIN the traditional teaching from Christianity is being practiced by The Church because The Church believes ALL of Scripture: 2 Thessalonians 2:15
 

Marymog

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"your OWN Salvation"... this means its yours, if you are born again, and not just sprinkled and confirmed.
Each Born again has it.. its "the GIFT of Salvation", that has been GIVEN to each born again person.
What is it exactly? ITs the Blood Atonement, and its to have become a "new Creation" "in Christ".

We dont work to keep it, we work it OUT..... We learn how to exist within what we have become, which is "the gift of Salvation" that has made us "ONE with God and Christ".
2 Peter 3:16
 

Marymog

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Scripture is clear. We are saved by grace through the means of faith, not by works, even works of righteousness but by Gods mercy (Eph 2 and titus 3)

and scripture is clear, those saved by faith are created for good works, hebrews 11 shows what happens to those who have true saving faith, when you trust someone, you tend to try to become like them, you do not claim you trust them yet never strive to do anything they say, James calls them people who claim to have faith, yet in reality have no faith period, their faith is dead, lifeless, that’s why they will not work

scripture says he who began a good work will complete it, why don’t you believe this?
Your theory is that good works will automatically happen after one starts believing. I asked you to "please show me in Scripture where that theory is. You failed.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Your theory is that good works will automatically happen after one starts believing. I asked you to "please show me in Scripture where that theory is. You failed.
No, I did not fail

Paul in eph 2: 10 stated it, James 2 states it. Hebrews states it.

YOU FAILED to understand It is not a theory. What you believe in is a theory. That one can have faith and NEVER do any work. that can be found no where in scripture
 

Marymog

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No, I did not fail

Paul in eph 2: 10 stated it, James 2 states it. Hebrews states it.

YOU FAILED to understand It is not a theory. What you believe in is a theory. That one can have faith and NEVER do any work. that can be found no where in scripture
Dear EG,

Hold, hold on cowgirl. Pull your horses back!! I never said that one can have faith and NEVER do any work. If I said that please give me the post# its in and I will correct myself.

What we are discussing is your teaching that one will automatically start doing good works once they start believing. That teaching CAN NOT be found in Scripture. What can be found in Scripture is that one SHOULD do good works once they start believing because "faith without (the) works is dead". If they DON'T do the good works, their faith is useless, gone, DEAD!!!

You mentioned Paul and Ephesians 2 as your proof text. In other passages Paul states that salvation also has present and future aspects! So the kind of salvation Paul is discussing in Ephesians 2:8-9 is initial salvation. It is the kind which we received when we first came to God and were justified, not the kind of salvation we are now receiving (1 Peter 1:8-9, Phil. 2:12) or the kind we will one day receive (Rom. 13:11, 1 Cor. 3:15, 5:5).
 

Eternally Grateful

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Dear EG,

Hold, hold on cowgirl. Pull your horses back!! I never said that one can have faith and NEVER do any work. If I said that please give me the post# its in and I will correct myself.

So do you believe it or not?

lets get to the bottom if the issue!

What we are discussing is your teaching that one will automatically start doing good works once they start believing. That teaching CAN NOT be found in Scripture. What can be found in Scripture is that one SHOULD do good works once they start believing because "faith without (the) works is dead". If they DON'T do the good works, their faith is useless, gone, DEAD!!!

You mentioned Paul and Ephesians 2 as your proof text. In other passages Paul states that salvation also has present and future aspects! So the kind of salvation Paul is discussing in Ephesians 2:8-9 is initial salvation. It is the kind which we received when we first came to God and were justified, not the kind of salvation we are now receiving (1 Peter 1:8-9, Phil. 2:12) or the kind we will one day receive (Rom. 13:11, 1 Cor. 3:15, 5:5).

Your wrong, It is not initial salvation.

once again, DO you believe one can have true saving faith and never do any works? yes or no?

lets stick to our conversation and not go off on rabbit trails
 

justbyfaith

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It’s sad you speak against works yet at the same time preach works.

you contradict yourself, I have to wonder if you are sincere at all. Seems like everytime I see you you are saying something else, why is this?

What specific things have I said that you think contradict each other? And I will attempt to reconcile them in your mind.

There are those who accuse the Bible itself of having contradictions, and there are times when they can even bring up scriptures that even seem to have legitimate contradictions. However, there is always a reconciliation and in the long run we always find that the Bible does not contradict itself.

But if I am thinking of one scripture on one hand, and teaching the meaning of it, and another scripture on another hand, that is an apparent contradiction to the previous scripture, and teaching the meaning of it, then there may even be a strong probability that the two meanings that are being taught may appear to contradict.

It does not mean that they are truly contradictory; only that the person reading has a lack of understanding as to how the two contrasting scriptures reconcile to one another.

I make it a point in my teaching to point out how contrasting scriptures reconcile; much of my doctrine is the result of considering the apparent contradictions in scripture and reconciling them in my mind.

So, keep reading my posts. You just may find that the apparent contradictions that you are seeing melt away as they are reconciled in your mind by the teaching that I bring forth.

What we are discussing is your teaching that one will automatically start doing good works once they start believing. That teaching CAN NOT be found in Scripture.

It is found in the following scriptures.

Eze 36:25, Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26, A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27, And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Phl 2:12, Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Phl 2:13, For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
 

Philip James

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If born again believers don't get their doctrine from the holy scriptures, where do they get it?

From those who have gone before us!

And what you heard from me through many witnesses entrust to faithful people who will have the ability to teach others as well.

The Truth does not change...

Peace be with you!
 

justbyfaith

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From those who have gone before us!

And what you heard from me through many witnesses entrust to faithful people who will have the ability to teach others as well.

The Truth does not change...

Peace be with you!
Yes, we can most certainly get the truth from vessels of the Holy Spirit who have spiritual gifts of teaching, word of wisdom, prophecy, etc. and such things can even be authoritative.

Just be certain that you understand that if anything spoken by one of these vessels contradicts the essential message of the holy scriptures, that that particular statement is not of God and the vessel that spoke it is very likely not of God (thought they may be of God but simply made a singular mistake).
 

Marymog

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it is found in the following scriptures.

Eze 36:25, Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26, A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27, And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Phl 2:12, Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Phl 2:13, For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Thanks JBF,

Traditionally theologians have connected that passage from Ezekiel with water baptism in the NT. Once a person believes AND is baptized (sprinkled with clean water) they will do those things. It doesn't say once you start believing you will automatically do good work. The devil believes also (James 2:19). Does he do good works?

I am not sure how those passages from Philippians 2 proves that one will automatically do good works once they start believing. It doesn't say you will start doing good works as soon as you start believing...It simply is not there!