For free will believers out there
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BARNEY BRIGHT
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Isn't it True that exercising faith in the Only True God because of the love you have for him is the basis of who God considers his friends, his faithful servants and therefore who he considers righteous, deserving of life?There has been what once was a very intense, lively and even heated debate on "Calvinism vs. Armeniaism" It has devolved into name calling which is sad and people outright telling untruths.
But a side point for which I am starting this thread for is this;
For those who believe that unsaved man has free will to freely choose God or not, I ask you this.
What about the tens of billions who have lived and died and never once even had a chance to hear the name Jesus even once? The bible celarly teaches that aprt from faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus for ones sin, one is lost, what about all those who unever even had a chance to "exercise" this supposed free will?
They never had a chance to accept or reject christ even once! Before you spout how they could be saved by their conscience, let me remind you that in the same book (Romans) it say s no one is righteous and no one seeks after God!
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
All have sinned and without trusting in the payment for ones sin they are lost. Unless you are promoting two gospels. The o gospel of Jesus for those who have had a chance to hear the gospel and another gospel of salvation for those who never hear.
And if that were true, like A B Simpson from the CMA wrote in the 1800's in the book "Missionary Messages"- that if the unsaved can be saved by some way apart form the hearing and believing in the gospel as it says in Romans 10, the church is a fool for sending missionaries all over the world, for once they have heard the gospel, they are now responsible to the gospel.
If those who have no tyet heard the gospel can be saved apart from the gospel- then the church would do better taking those billions it spends yearly on missions and use them for another reason. But no ! That is not the case. These are people who for generations have never hasd the witness of the gospel in their lands and have died without once getting a chance to exercise that "free will". does that make God the monster you think I make him to be or what?
Serious respondents only.
Doesn't Hebrews chapter eleven teach us about this faith. Doesn't it talk about so many who exercised faith in the Times before Jesus paid the ransom price that God considered righteous but tells us that these faithful servants wouldn't be complete without Jesus and his Apostles, meaning in the resurrection all these who exercised faith will hear the gospel after they are resurrected.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
while they are alive ie.....not after death.
Hebrews 9:27 ...and as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment
No, you must believe in His Son (that He is also the only true God) and receive Him for who He says He is (Mark 4:36) as the great I AM (John 8:24).
Yes, there is only one true God. The same Spirit who inhabiteth eternity also descended and took on an added nature of human flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7, John 1:14).
Because He inhabits eternity, He cannot vacate eternity in the descending. Different rules apply to Him than to us. It would be the nature of someone who inhabits eternity that they are in that place eternally...from everlasting to everlasting.
Because He inhabits eternity, He cannot vacate eternity in the descending. Different rules apply to Him than to us. It would be the nature of someone who inhabits eternity that they are in that place eternally...from everlasting to everlasting.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
jbf....have you considered that might look different to different people depending on where you are in the history of humanity?
Where does that leave single women?
That scripture doesn't apply to me since I am a widow.
I gave God my life to do with as He Will...if He wants me to teach I will obey, if He wants me to be silent I will obey. I am in direct communication with my Father and He tells me that the harvest is plenty and the laborers are few...will you go and labor for me and help bring in the harvest?
I answered YES Lord! Send me!
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
People who lived prior to the incarnation, both Jews and Gentiles did not understand, or at least very few had an inkling of how God was going to vindicate himself and in the process make Salvation possible for all peoples. Nevertheless, God tried to break through to them....to the Hebrews he gave 'models' so to speak or types/metaphors which became cultural....in that sense they were privileged as a nation .....the model (if one could call it a model) Gentiles had was degraded beyond recognition yet he spoke to them through conscience and I have no doubt through other means of which I know not.
Those who took to heart the message/s that came through the means available to then believed in Jesus although not in so many words. One might say their hearts were/are aligned with God's purposes.....the Syrophoenician woman or the Samaritan woman at the Well illustrate this, even the Magi and Cornelius the Centurion.
I believe there will be many when the time comes in the kingdom of heaven which will be surprised......people who had no understanding of the theology of God's plan of Redemption as we have come to understand post crucifixion.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
I'll add this; Nebucadnezzer after he came to his senses gives an account of his experience and praises the God of Heaven in Daniel 4:34-37.
Something happened in this mans mind to shift his view. I would not be surprised if we see him in the Kingdom.
Something happened in this mans mind to shift his view. I would not be surprised if we see him in the Kingdom.
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
God's choice and man's choice intersect at the crucifixion of Christ. No doubt the activity of the Holy Spirit is the causation of the sinner's choice to believe in Christ as Lord and Saviour, and God's foreknowledge of this choice is the causation of their being ordained to eternal life.
Quote From Believer's Bible Commentary
Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Divine election and human responsibility are both scriptural truths, and neither should be emphasized at the expense of the other. While there seems to be a conflict between the two, this conflict exists only in the human mind, and not in the mind of God.
Quote From Believer's Bible Commentary
Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Divine election and human responsibility are both scriptural truths, and neither should be emphasized at the expense of the other. While there seems to be a conflict between the two, this conflict exists only in the human mind, and not in the mind of God.
Grailhunter
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Cooper
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Perhaps the Ancient of Days revealed himself to other people also.
We only have written evidence from one nation, before then people did not write.
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Cooper
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There is neither male or female all are equal in the sight of God who looks on the heart.Yes faith in Christ.
For the promise was of a coming Christ (Genesis 3:15)
He just didn't know His name.
1Co 14:34, Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Co 14:35, And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
1Co 14:36, What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
1Co 14:37, If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
1Co 14:38, But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
1Ti 2:9, In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
1Ti 2:10, But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
1Ti 2:11, Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12, But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13, For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14, And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1Pe 3:1, Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
1Pe 3:2, While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
1Pe 3:3, Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
1Pe 3:4, But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
1Pe 3:5, For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
1Pe 3:6, Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
Better get in the faces of Peter and Paul.
Anyway that is not the subject of this thread.
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Cooper
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Paul was writing about church order on earth. You have more to learn. How about staying on topic.
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Who doesn't have more to learn?
The Bible is so simple that a child can understand its message and yet so complex that the greatest theologian cannot plumb the depths of it.
I am also aware of what it says in Galatians 3:28.
However, that verse does not cancel out the verses that I have quoted.
Cooper
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Cooper
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You are getting personal and are way off topic. Any more I shall report your behaviour.
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