No authority!

Illuminator · Mar 16, 2021

Wrangler said:
The Bible says that through Christ, we are all priests.

9 But you are a chosen people, set aside to be a royal order of priests, a holy nation, God’s own; so that you may proclaim the wondrous acts of the One who called you out of inky darkness into shimmering light.
1 Peter 2:9 (Voice)

That Bible does not rule out the ministerial priesthood, that is a man made tradition.

justbyfaith · Mar 16, 2021

Illuminator said:
That Bible does not rule out the ministerial priesthood, that is a man made tradition.

It does not specify the Catholic priesthood as being the priesthood spoken of, either.

It specifically says "you".

That includes every believer and is not confined to the ministerial order in Catholicism.

BreadOfLife · Mar 16, 2021

Wrangler said:
Desperate rationalization to make any verse support your doctrine. Acts 1:20 says ' In this way, one of David’s psalms was fulfilled.' Past tense. Not future tense.

WRONG.
Nobody is "rationalizing" anything.

First of all - as I've had to remind some of your fellow anti-Catholics - the Bible wasn't written in English.
The Hebrew text of Psalm 109:8 uses the words "let another take his position of oversight".

BOTH the Greek Septuagint (OT) text AND the Greek NT text from Acts 1:20 use the word, "Episkopay" - which translates as "Office of Overseer" or "Bishopric".

Do your homework on the matter and you'l see that thse are the linguistic facts . . .

BreadOfLife · Mar 16, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
This has nothing to do with security or culture. Whether it's at the Mexican border or on the streets of Rome, when you tell people this is the authorized and approved way you will approach the Pope you've immediately removed it from any comparison to an interpersonal relationship. Peter would never have allowed a rule to be made on how you must approach him. He would have refused the exaltation.

YOU have repeatedly accused ME of living in the past - yet it's YOU who can't seem to understand that this isn't the first century.
A Pope "cruising" the city streets on his own would cause a stir - and NOT necessarily a good one, depending on where he is. He oversees the needs of over a BILLION people - and NOT everyone around him is a friend, as evidenced by this thread . . .

Only an idiot - or an extremey dishonest person - would try to convince people that the Pope walking aroud by himself in public wouldn't cause public safety issues and even riots.

You're simply taking this position you are because of your anti-Catholic bias - but it has NO basis in reality.
Grow up already - nd try discussing REAL issues . . .

BreadOfLife · Mar 16, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
It is about evangelism—relaying the message of reconciliation......

11Therefore, since we know what it means to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is clear to God, and I hope it is clear to your conscience as well. 12We are not commending ourselves to you again. Instead, we are giving you an occasion to be proud of us, so that you can answer those who take pride in appearances rather than in the heart.13If we are out of our mind, it is for God; if we are of sound mind, it is for you. 14For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that One died for all, therefore all died. 15And He died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died for them and was raised again.16So from now on we regard no one according to the flesh. Although we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.a The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!18All this is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men’s trespasses against them. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation.20Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making His appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ: Be reconciled to God. 2 Corinthians 5:11-20

It's very, very clear that he is talking about sharing the message of reconciliation and trying to persuade men as though God were making that appeal himself through them. This is evangelism 101.

Then you don't underestand the Word of God.

The crux of 2 Cor. 5:18-20 and 2 Cor. 2:10 is about reconciliation and forgiveness.
In a sweeping, general sense - the entire NT s about evangelism - but that doesn't mean every verse is.

Learn to properly divide the Word of God . . .

BreadOfLife · Mar 16, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
You are the one with the rigid, legalistic 'outside of the cup' religious beliefs and practices and showing no Christ-like 'inside of the cup' character and I'm the Pharisee?

Yes, your hypocrisy is what makes you pharisaical.

BreadOfLife · Mar 16, 2021

Taken said:
Christ is with His Church 24-7.
And BTW, This Earth is in utter chaos.

And so is this forum . . .

Yes, Jesus is ALWAYS with His Church - and if you knew about the Parable of the Sheep and Goats (Matt. 25:31-46) - you'd see just HOW.
Also, you forget that His Church is His BODY (Col 1:18) - and it is the FULLNESS of Him (Eph. 1:22-23).

BreadOfLife · Mar 16, 2021

justbyfaith said:
It does not specify the Catholic priesthood as being the priesthood spoken of, either.
It specifically says "you".
That includes every believer and is not confined to the ministerial order in Catholicism.

ONE more time . . .

In the Old Testament, there were three levels of Priests:
- Aaron, the High Priest
-The Levitical/Miisterial Priesthood
-The rest of the people were a general priesthood of believers.

In the New Testament, there are also three levels of Priests:
-Jesus, our High Priest (1 Tim. 2:5, Heb. 7:22-25)
- The Ministerial Priesthood (James 5:14-15)
-The general priesthood of all Christians (1 Peter 2:5-9).

Just as with all New Testament fulfillments, the fulfillment is always more glorious and perfect than the Old Testament type.

Finally, in the Epistle of Jude, we read the warning about those who would usurp Church Authority by assuming the ministerial priesthood without the Church’s consent (Jude 1:11). In this passage he compares them to the rebellion of Korah and their subsequent punishment (Numbers 16:1-35; 31:16).

STUDY your Bible . . .

justbyfaith · Mar 17, 2021

BreadOfLife said:
ONE more time . . .

In the Old Testament, there were three levels of Priests:
- Aaron, the High Priest
-The Levitical/Miisterial Priesthood
-The rest of the people were a general priesthood of believers.

In the New Testament, there are also three levels of Priests:
-Jesus, our High Priest (1 Tim. 2:5, Heb. 7:22-25)
- The Ministerial Priesthood (James 5:14-15)
-The general priesthood of all Christians (1 Peter 2:5-9).

Just as with all New Testament fulfillments, the fulfillment is always more glorious and perfect than the Old Testament type.

Finally, in the Epistle of Jude, we read the warning about those who would usurp Church Authority by assuming the ministerial priesthood without the Church’s consent (Jude 1:11). In this passage he compares them to the rebellion of Korah and their subsequent punishment (Numbers 16:1-35; 31:16).

STUDY your Bible . . .

If the general believer is a priest, then he can function as a priest.

Case closed.

BreadOfLife said:
Then you don't understand <fify> the Word of God.

How can you say that about him when all he even did right there was quote an entire passage and then make a simple, accurate commentary on what it meant?

justbyfaith · Mar 17, 2021

BreadOfLife said:
The crux of 2 Cor. 5:18-20 and 2 Cor. 2:10 is about reconciliation and forgiveness.
In a sweeping, general sense - the entire NT s about evangelism - but that doesn't mean every verse is.

Learn to properly divide the Word of God . . .

Then you also basically agree with his statement here.

How then does he not understand the word of God?

Ferris Bueller · Mar 17, 2021

BreadOfLife said:
YOU have repeatedly accused ME of living in the past - yet it's YOU who can't seem to understand that this isn't the first century.
A Pope "cruising" the city streets on his own would cause a stir - and NOT necessarily a good one, depending on where he is. He oversees the needs of over a BILLION people - and NOT everyone around him is a friend, as evidenced by this thread . . .

Only an idiot - or an extremey dishonest person - would try to convince people that the Pope walking aroud by himself in public wouldn't cause public safety issues and even riots.

You're simply taking this position you are because of your anti-Catholic bias - but it has NO basis in reality.
Grow up already - nd try discussing REAL issues . . .

Don't evade the issue here. Peter would not allow a person to respect his authority that way. He would say, "don't demean yourself that way. I am but a man myself". Let's be honest here, that is what the Biblical record shows us about his character.

Ferris Bueller · Mar 17, 2021

BreadOfLife said:
Then you don't underestand the Word of God.

The crux of 2 Cor. 5:18-20 and 2 Cor. 2:10 is about reconciliation and forgiveness.
In a sweeping, general sense - the entire NT s about evangelism - but that doesn't mean every verse is.

Learn to properly divide the Word of God . . .

"Persuasion", "ministry", "message", "appeal"........2 Corinthians 5:11-21 is about evangelism. But you're casting the Catholic shadow of the hierarchy's exclusive power to forgive sin onto it, as if the common man can't get to God without it. That is the exact hinderance Christ himself removed when he laid aside the mortal priesthood and replaced it with his own eternal and immortal Priesthood. We're not questioning the power to forgive sin. We all have that. We're challenging the Catholic church's assertion that you can't get to God except through their priesthood.

Ferris Bueller · Mar 17, 2021

BreadOfLife said:
Yes, your hypocrisy is what makes you pharisaical.

Hypocrisy about what? I'm the one that is free of self imposed doctrinal and worship stipulations and instead focus on godly character, the thing that counts. Your religious system is what focuses on the outer appearances and methodology of religion thinking that's what it means to please God and receive his approval, oblivious, it seems, to what really matters. That's the very definition of the hypocritical Pharisee. I'm not the one here defending that hypocritical system of religion.

Taken · Mar 17, 2021

BreadOfLife said:
An "office" is successive.

Maybe a Catholic needs to tell Biden that.

Taken · Mar 17, 2021

BreadOfLife said:
And so is this forum . . .

Yes, Jesus is ALWAYS with His Church - and if you knew about the Parable of the Sheep and Goats (Matt. 25:31-46) - you'd see just HOW.
Also, you forget that His Church is His BODY (Col 1:18) - and it is the FULLNESS of Him (Eph. 1:22-23).

This forum is not in chaos.
How Jesus is with His Church, is not a mystery, and is revealed Expressly in;

John 16:
[7] Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Spouting fallacies.
Nothing whatsoever indicated I forgot Jesus' Church is His Body.

Taken · Mar 17, 2021

Illuminator said:
That Bible does not rule out the ministerial priesthood, that is a man made tradition.

God established His High Priest, king of Salem.

2 Thes 2:
[15] Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the Traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Man's Traditions, mimic .... some Traditions of men, surpass from mimicking TO superseeding Gods Teaching.

Thus we have warnings about men's superseeding traditions.

Mark 7:
[13] Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Col 2:
[8] Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Glory to God,
Taken

theefaith · Mar 17, 2021

Wrangler said:
Which references Psalms. Psalm 109:8 New Living Translation 8 Let his years be few; let someone else take his position.

What is nonsense is you reading things into the text that is not there.

you can doubt the psalm but not
acts 1:17 judas was an apostle
Acts 1:20 was a bishop
Acts 1:26 Mathias was chosen to succeed him!

theefaith · Mar 17, 2021

Taken said:
What king?

why?

sorry should be kingdom, the kingdom of Christ the new covenant church

what is he a high priest over accept low priests
That’s what makes him high priest

theefaith · Mar 17, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
Being made righteous by your works is the exact definition of the works gospel.

it is grace that sanctifys
In Christ by grace thru the sacraments
All faith and works become meritorious

theefaith · Mar 17, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
Nobody needs the Catholic church and it's earthly priesthood to be reconciled to God. That way of relating to God was laid aside by Christ himself when he brought all people close to God solely through the redemptive work of his own priestly work and sacrifice on the altar in heaven.

Explain;
2 Corinthians 5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

If the church is not necessary how are you being united to Christ?
Only possible by the sacraments of the holy church

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

No authority!

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