Grailhunter’s Corner

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Heart2Soul

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Keep going.....
This is an example of someone trying to justify their beliefs
the word “salvation” is the Hebrew word Yeshua (ye•shu•ah). Yeshua
This is not true but it kinda sound the same. His name is not salvation. Yeshua in Hebrew means to rescue or to deliver, it is exactly what the Jews expected the messiah to do. It is not the same word and the word he references is an imported word from the Chaldean language. (Look it up) Salvation in the Old Testament usually referred to saving someone life or saving a nation. So when the word salvation is used it not directly referring to the God Yeshua. There is no heavenly salvation in the Old Testament. God never offered heaven as reward in the Old Testament and never threatened anyone with hell for sins in the Old Testament. By no stretch of the imagination is Yeshua referenced 150 times in the Old Testament.

This is one of the reason that all of this has lasted so long. It is a common deception. When they talking about Yeshua's name, and talk about running it through the Greek, through the Latin or whatever, it is a deception. Yeshua was Hebrew and His name was Hebrew and it can be phonically pronounce in English...end of story.
I am no scholar for certain....I wouldn't know if what I read on the internet is accurate or not.
I do appreciate your thorough studies and research on this and am grateful that you care enough to share them with us.
 

Grailhunter

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I am no scholar for certain....I wouldn't know if what I read on the internet is accurate or not.
I do appreciate your thorough studies and research on this and am grateful that you care enough to share them with us.
All good...good bless you Heart2Soul.
 
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Heart2Soul

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I have a question for you....do you believe the 7 days of creation a literal 7 days or are they measured in God's time (who exists outside of time)...in other words...1 day is as 1000 years.?
It's something I discovered while reading Genesis 1....God said let their be light on 2 separate days....obviously the 4th day refers to the sun, moon and stars....
What was the other?
 

Grailhunter

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I have a question for you....do you believe the 7 days of creation a literal 7 days or are they measured in God's time (who exists outside of time)...in other words...1 day is as 1000 years.?
It's something I discovered while reading Genesis 1....God said let their be light on 2 separate days....obviously the 4th day refers to the sun, moon and stars....
What was the other?

First off a couple funnies....Garden of Eden is a mis-translation, it is actually Paradise of Delights....which sounded a little to fun for Some. lol Then..
"But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."
The answer to this riddle is that it means "now" whenever you say it. The Lord is not slow the scripture is saying. And He is not so stupid to not know time, and how it relates to Him or us. Sometimes people use this scripture to muddy the water.

God said let their be light on 2 separate days.

There are actually two different creation stories in Genesis. The second one starts at Genesis 2:4. Why are there two stories? Speculation....
Because of the the things that are mentioned in the second story....That may have been the creation of Paradise, which was more less an ecosphere....temperature controlled no need for clothes....sealed unit....vegetation watered from the ground....gates.....lights from above etc

Certainly a day can define a period, much longer than a day.

The creation story brings up all kinds of debates and questions....that could go on for a while.
 
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Grailhunter

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Are nice guys going to Heaven?

Is this a common misconception? Your final destination is not dependent on your disposition…temperament. There will be cranky old ladies in Heaven and nice guys in Hell. I say the democrats are evil, but that has nothing to do with their disposition. Are they evil because they are stupid? Not at all, there have been serial killers that are near to geniuses. And herein lies the misconception.

In the thread… “Is it a sin to vote for a democrat” I explained why it was a sin to vote for a democrat….Was I mistaken? Was I exaggerating? NO, and here is why.

As I said before, it really does not matter how many babies a politician kisses, when he votes to support abortion he is instrumental in the murder of 600,000 babies a year…that is what he will have to answer for. Is murder a sin? Is there any question on this? Is it biblical? Can we say that, biblically speaking, is voting for evil a sin? In the Thread “Is there a new denomination forming?” I posed this question because we are seeing a strange transition of the character of Christianity and society.

Some see it as rude…unfair…and in some case some say prejudice, to expect people to be moral, law abiding, responsible, and even to hold them accountable is seen by some as unfair and in some cases prejudice. But is this more of a social tread than a religious tread?


Well, Christians live in society so there will be Christians that think this way. But God does not care about social fades…as historians call them “isms” In the end we are all going to be judged the same as those that lived in the biblical era…we will be judged on what we do. The faithful will be asked, Why do you call me Lord, Lord, yet don't do what I say? Is it faithful to decide not to follow the morals of Christ? Don’t get me wrong, it is one thing to sin, but I am saying it is another to cast the morals of Christ aside. So how do democrats cast the morals of Christ aside? One of the ways to categorically discard morals is to support evil…ie vote for it! It is a categorical and sweeping statement to God and man on what you believe and support.

Back in the biblical era Christians did not vote. The voting was done by the Roman senate. As it was the senators voted to persecute and murder Christians in the coliseums. Was that wrong, was that a sin? They did not physically do it themselves, they just voted for it. Keep in mind that babies were killed along with their families in the most horrible ways.

Nice guys and gals are everywhere…even democrats! A democrat maybe a great guy, a wonderful husband and father. Fine upstanding church going citizen. But there is a line drawn between good and evil and that line is nothing new, and when he crosses that line and stands with evil, supports evil, votes for evil, he is standing with Satan, and he or she is evil. “If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.” Our ability to rule over is cast with our vote.


That voter does not have to be the one that pushes that medical device into that baby’s brain to murder the child, but he is an accomplice, he is a supporter of evil, he voted for it, and knew that his vote would support that hideous act. Now maybe he thought that, that baby’s life does not count…maybe he believes that the lives of 600,000 babies do not count. So then that is the question, what kind of reasoning can get to that? Really, what is the mental process, the spirit, the character that could come to that conclusion? Not to mention all that, what about the person(s) that gets up everyday to murder babies. What is the condition of that human heart that can carry that out, day after day? Do you think it is driven by God or Satan?

Communism…Do a study and see how many Christian communist nations there are in the world. lol! *People should notice this!* Look into how Christians fair in communist countries. If you do not think that the democrats are communist, think again! Uncle Joe may not be communist, but if he casts his vote for democrats he is voting for communism, whether he knows it or not. It is not that uncommon to run into older people that think that the democrats of today are like the ones in the 1950’s.

The American Communist Party, yeap! For the most part they admit it, and now even proclaim it. Of course the dividing line between socialism, marxism, and communism around the world is a little gray, but there are distinctive characteristics for straight up communists. Let us just look at the parallels between the democrats and the countries that are communist…They do not put God in their national anthems, they curse God, and burn Bibles, they do not want Christian monuments in public, and persecute the assembly of Christians just like the democrats do. life, liberty, and the American way is the enemy of democrats. They say this country is horrible and want to tear down the monuments to it. They think communism is the better way. And this is not all, that column of similarities between the democrats and communism will have a lot of check marks in it.

Do communists believe in disarming the public?
Do the communists want to control the school systems?
Do communist countries have high taxes?
Do communists place a lower value on life? Abortion?
Do the communists believe that murder is justified so as to get what they what?…ie the justification and protection of murderous mobs.

Is it common in communists countries for “the party” to have control of the media…for the intended purpose of spreading propaganda…ie like trying to convince people that huge destructive and murderous mobs…are actually peaceful protests…. sound familiar? These people think the American public is stupid and they can control what they think.
Do communists over through countries by staging a coup and taking control of the voting places and systems?


Now there is another evil side to this transitional communist plot….Promote issues with authority, they protect the criminals and persecute the law abiding citizens. Ever hear the democrat party praise law abiding citizens or those that are successful? No. And not real big on recognizing and awarding the efforts of the military or law enforcement. It is always the criminal parasites. Do they rush in to protect the law abiding citizens? No. It is always the criminal parasites. But most of this is the initial phases of the communist take over. Disrupt and divide society and bring the system down so it can be resurrected communist. Once it takes over, you can bet that the rule of communist law will be enforced and the mass graves will be dug. It happens in nearly all communist takeovers.

Do they believe in law and order? Do they back law enforcement? The answer to that is obviously no. They promote anarchy and violence. And all this leads to the controlling factor of drug dependency. A lot of Americans are not communists, but they will vote for any party that allows drugs, that is their hold on them. Drug dependant people would vote to murder a billion babies if it meant they could continue to do drugs. The word is justify, the mental process of justification is the paved path to Hell.

Then we could get into their attempt to weaponize the FBI and CIA to stage a coup and then there is High Treason and the take over of the election process and the Bidens treasonous dealings with China and Ukraine. Which is exactly what happens when the communists over through a government. Their support comes from communist countries.

So I contend that the democrats are not only the enemy of God but also this country. Satan does not really care what they believe, only that they do evil or promote evil….don’t cast a vote for Satan.


 
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Grailhunter

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Significant dates of Christ
A little background info…Mosaic Law….Remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy. The Jewish Sabbath occurs weekly on Saturday, similar to the Christian Holy Day that occurs on Sunday.

The Gregorian calendar missed the birth of Christ by 3 years. When calculating keep in mind that the Gregorian calendar does not have a year 0 (zero) so one year passes between 1 BC and 1AD.

Herod dies March 12th 4 bc So Christ has to be born before that. Josephus notes an eclipse of the moon around the time of Herod death. Computerized astronomical calculations (NASA) indicate that there was an eclipse of the moon that could be seen from Jerusalem on the night of the 23rd of March 4 BC.


Twinkle Twinkle Little Star!

So Herod secretly told the Magi to go to Bethlehem and investigate and report back to him, but the Magi chose to follow the star instead. (Matt. 2:1-9) The star then moved north to Nazareth and they followed the star to a small home were the baby Jesus lived and they worshiped Him (Matt. 2:11) It was the Star of Nazareth, not the Star of the Nativity, because the Magi never went to Bethlehem. Which solves another misunderstanding.

( Oh Three Kings of Orient are…)
The early Christian leaders had problems with the word Magi because it means magic-ian, better understood in this time period as wizard, sorcerer, or even witch. In fact, the masculine noun of this word is used to describe Simon Magus in Acts chapter 8 and Elymas the sorcerer in Acts chapter 13 who were not Magi, but just run of the mill sorcerers. So in some translations they named them wise men and tradition labeled them as three Kings, even though the number is not specified in the Bible. The gifts that the Magi gave Christ was a treasure, not trinket gifts. Matthew 2:11 And as indicated they may have been the first to worship Him.

The custom or tradition that the Magi were from the east and His star appeared in the east, is a contradiction. (Matt. 2:1-2) If the Magi would have been from the orient or east of Jerusalem and saw His star in the east they would be following the star in the opposite direction of Bethlehem/Nazareth. So this simply does not make any sense...unless they saw it from somewhere else. This group of Magi although not all Egyptians were probably from the area around Alexandria, Egypt and maybe they saw it in the sky east of Egypt. Also it should be noted that the star is a light, not a heavenly body because it moves, not in straight lines, and rests and according to some traditions casts a light to where Christ was. So the light could have hovered east of Alexandria and the Magi followed it around the Mediterranean, coming from the east to Nazareth by way of Jerusalem. Another contradiction resolved.

Then God spoke to the Magi in a dream and warned them not to return to King Herod. So they departed for their own country by another way. Matt. 2:12 Then in the next verse Matt. 2:13... Now when they had gone, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Get up! Take the Child and His mother and flee to Egypt, and remain there until I tell you; for Herod is going to search for the Child to destroy Him.”

Then in Matthew 2:19-20 But when Herod died, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, and said, “Get up, take the Child and His mother, and go into the land of Israel; for those who sought the Child’s life are dead.” Herod dies on March 12th 4 BC.
 
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Grailhunter

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Spoiler Alert: Behold the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.
The Bible indicates Christ’s ministry starts when He was baptized by John the Baptist. Luke 3:23 ----Luke 3:1 Indicates that John the Baptist starts Baptizing in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, which would be in the year 29 AD. Which means that you would have to push Christ’s crucifixion off to 33 AD, (Next available date for the Passover on a Sabbath.) which would mean that Christ was born after Herod’s death? Which would make Christ 36 years old or throws Matthew’s story of the Magi, Herod, and the killing of innocents out the window. So it would seem that Luke may have added incorrectly. To keep the timeline correct Christ ministry would have to start in 27 AD, plus or minus a few months.


Christ's week in Jerusalem
Palm Sunday
Matthew 21:1-11
Mark 11:1-11
Luke 19:28-44
John 12:12-19

Monday
Cleansed the Temple of the money changers
No broom a length of rope
Matthew 21:12
Mark 11:15-17
Luke 19:45-46

Tuesday
Mount of Olive sermon and parables
Matthew 21:23-24
Mark 11:20-13:27
Luke 20:1-21:36
John 12:20-38

Wednesday
The woman with the Alabaster Jar
Judas goes to negotiate Christ betrayal
Matthew 26:2-16
Mark 14:1-11
Luke 22:3-6

Thursday
The Last supper
Matthew 26:17---
Mark 14:12---
Luke 22:7---
John 13:1---

Friday
Passover---The Feast of Unleavened Bread----Hag Ha-Matzot.
Passover is one 24 hour period in the seven day Feast of Unleavened bread. The Jewish Passover occurs each year on the evening of the first full moon after the Spring Equinox.

One thing we know for sure, Christ was not crucified on the day He ate the His Last Supper. But the Jews would have normally been eating the Passover meal on the day Christ was crucified, that would be Friday.

Over the centuries there have been some confusion on which day the Last Supper occurred, and the circumstances of its occurrence. So before we go on let me explain. Traditionally in this time period, on the eve before the Passover the sacrificial lamb was slain and butchered ritualistically. The blood was collected ritualistically and applied to the doorways. (This is the Passover part of the ritual of the plaque of the first born.) Then the entire lamb was cooked over a fire and eaten entirely, with unleavened bread. (The sacrifice could be either an unblemished goat or lamb. You can read about this ritual in Exodus chapter 12.) This is not exactly what happened during the evening of the Last Supper. But the Gospels use the term Passover meal to refer to the Last Supper and also reference the Passover lamb being sacrificed on Thursday evening, from there, confusion ensued.


The Jewish Passover that year occurred on Saturday April 8th 30 AD, and started at dusk (As the Full Moon rose) on April 7th. Computerized astronomical calculations (NASA) shows a full Moon on the evening of April 7th when Passover began. So the Passover for that year occurred on the Jewish Sabbath...Saturday. Two Holy events occurring on the same day. Some refer to this as a High Holy Day, High Day, or High Sabbath for the Jews. The Lambs would have been killed on Friday, the afternoon of the 7th of April. But Christ would not be alive Friday evening. So in this instance there was an honorary Passover meal for Christ. As I said, we know that Christ did not eat the Last Supper on the day He was crucified.

He was the symbolic and divine sacrificial lamb and He was slain around 3:00 pm on the 7th of April, around the time that the actual sacrificial lambs were being slain. The Passover dinner for Him was held on the evening of the 6th of April...Thursday and they had a sacrificial lamb. The next day, the actual Passover lambs would be slaughtered and eaten on Friday evening/night...for the Passover dinners. Christ was the sacrificial lamb for the New Covenant and He was crucified during the day on Friday, about the time the sacrificial lambs for Passover were being killed. So Christ would not be observing the normal processes of the Passover and the Passover meal, and as it turned out, the same was true for the Apostles because they would be in hiding, not sacrificing lambs. They may have arranged for food to be brought to them, but they probably were not sacrificing lambs at the Temple while Christ was being crucified.

The meal that Christ attended was a meal that the Gospels refer to as the Passover meal, put it was not the actual Jewish Passover meal. As I explained, the next day was the Jewish day of preparation for the Passover, and the Jewish Passover meal would occur then. This was the day that Christ was slain. Matthew 27:62, Mark 15:42, Luke 23:54, John 19:14, 31, and 42, all confirm that the day that Christ was crucified was on the Day of Preparation, which was Friday, April 7th 30 AD. John 18:28 also proves that on Thursday night/Friday morning, the day of Christ’s crucifixion, the Apostles had not eaten the actual Passover meal yet. The morning cock had crowed for Peter John 18:27 Christ was before Pilate in the Praetorium and the Apostles did not enter because they did not want to be defiled because they wanted to eat the Passover. Which would be that evening. Another mystery solved....
 

amigo de christo

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Lets see who had the greater sin . Was it pilate who in the end gave the setence ,
or was it those who handed JESUS over to pilate . JESUS said THEY HAVE THE GREATER SIN .
So just cause folks dont actually push the device into the brain of a child
If you vote for laws that support it , YA GUILTY as CHARGED of the murder .
 

Grailhunter

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Lets see who had the greater sin . Was it pilate who in the end gave the setence ,
or was it those who handed JESUS over to pilate . JESUS said THEY HAVE THE GREATER SIN .
So just cause folks dont actually push the device into the brain of a child
If you vote for laws that support it , YA GUILTY as CHARGED of the murder .

Agreed.
But if you want to see a curse in motion.
Luke 23:21 but they kept shouting, “Crucify, crucify him!”
Matthew 27:25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.
Commentaries and scholars call it a blood curse.
Then from then on look at what happened to them through history. Did it come true? It even waited for the time of their children.
 

Grailhunter

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You mentioned earlier you wanted to open a topic about miracles. I opened one here Modern day miracles
Did you end up opening a similar topic too @Grailhunter ? I’d love to see it.

Thank you.
yes I did...
And some had talked about some of the miracles in their lives.
Modern day miracles...in the eye of the beholder?
The most profound miracles that happen to people are so precious to them that they only share with people that have had similar miracles happen to them because they could not stand for people to pooh pooh them.

I have had so many and I do share some of them. There is a thread out there with some and I will see if I can find it.
The one thing I will tell you they do not always happen in church or with angels playing harps.
And in places you would not think they would....in war...in the heat of battle....
The ladies are generally better at sharing.
 

GodsGrace

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been a concept near to impossible to convey. Tri-unity is difficult enough, but sixty-unity would have been intolerable and unacceptable. But as it was, three aspects of one god was a common scenario in Pagan beliefs, the triple goddess is a good example. The multiple aspects of God was within their mythology and made their conversions comfortable but made matters more confusing for everyone else. The one God formula and changing Yahweh's name to God literally changes the meaning of hundreds of scriptures, maybe over a thousand.

The first documented time the word Trinity was used in relations to Christianity was written in the second century. (Now, the definitions that follow are not that hard to lookup and for anyone that is truly interested, I recommend it.) The Greek word used for Trinity was Τριάς, meaning "a set of three." The only meaning of one in this word was that it was one set of three. As time went on and the Church’s definition for the word Trinity changed, the next word for Trinity came from two Latin words. Trinitas, meaning, "the number three” and Unitas, meaning, unity; state of being one or undivided · sameness, uniformity · agreement, concord.

Latin is not a biblical language. Latin is a very “loose” language, it has a few meanings. Within the meaning of this word the Church could fit its new definition. The English word for Trinity, in the Webster’s Dictionary references Old French and Latin, and I quote..... “1. a set of three persons or things that form a unit. 2. in Christian theology, the union of three divine persons (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) in one Godhead.” end quote..... Which is exactly the definition of the Trinity.

The biblical testament of the authority of the Father has always been a thorn in the side of the Church’s doctrine of the Trinity, because hands down, the Old Testament and Christ Himself testified clearly and definitively, of the authority of the Father, over a hundred times, dozens of these coming from Christ Himself. In the Old Testament Yahweh makes it clear that He is singular God. He never functions as a trio, and specially indicates that He is the only one. There are zero suggestions of a Godhead in the Old Testament. Yahweh never suggested that there is a Godhead. There are zero suggestions that Yahweh recognized any other entity but Himself. There are zero suggestions that He recognized any name of a Deity other than Himself. There is One God in the religion of the Jews. You shall have no other Gods before me. There is zero evidence of God having a Son in the Old Testament.

On the other hand, these biblical proofs of the authority of God the Father in no way conflict with beliefs regarding the Trinity. In the Old Testament it is easy to see that Yahweh proclaims Himself as the ultimate authority and does not define Himself as a trio. In the New Testament after Yahweh begets a Son, His Son repeatedly attests to the authority of the Father. A numerical count of the three Gods occur as the Gospels progress, but descriptions or discussions regarding the trio of Gods does not occur until after Christ ascends to Heaven, and rightly so, the trio did not form until He ascended to Heaven. At which time, God the Father still holds the positional authority as God Almighty. In relation to each other the Bible assigns them positional seniority as we would understand the relationship of Father and Son. Then from our perspective they have equal authority over us. Then in relation to the salvation of humanity, Christ has all authority. To put this in simple terms it would be like delegating authority to complete a task, but Yahweh is still chairman of the board in Heaven. The Truth makes sense. The Shield of the Trinity is still compatible as a representation of the Godhead, in that God in center represents that spiritual unity, while there is a God called Yahweh, a God called Yeshua, and a God called the Holy Spirit. But still I see people scratching their heads over it.


View attachment 9027

I challenge anybody to produce an article near this size with even a tenth of the number of New Testament scriptural references to support their belief that the Trinity is one God, one person.
Of course I haven't read the entire post yet but it's very well written and thought out...not to mention the work involved, but I know you like to write.

You used the same image I use to explain the Trinity.
But then you end by saying that it's ONE GOD ,
ONE PERSON.

Is this what you meant?
Will read all in the morning. Too late here.
 

Grailhunter

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Of course I haven't read the entire post yet but it's very well written and thought out...not to mention the work involved, but I know you like to write.

You used the same image I use to explain the Trinity.
But then you end by saying that it's ONE GOD ,
ONE PERSON.

Is this what you meant?
Will read all in the morning. Too late here.

It is the "IS" and the "IS NOT" that defines a functional Godhead.
Like I said....Three very powerful Gods would have to be in accord.
There connections still is something that you can only debate so far....if you see me, you see the Father...it is a different reality.
Gods that talk to each other....refer to each other....praise each other....
One...oneness...
A physical arithmetic may not be able to express the imagery of it.
 

Cooper

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It is the "IS" and the "IS NOT" that defines a functional Godhead.
Like I said....Three very powerful Gods would have to be in accord.
There connections still is something that you can only debate so far....if you see me, you see the Father...it is a different reality.
Gods that talk to each other....refer to each other....praise each other....
One...oneness...
A physical arithmetic may not be able to express the imagery of it.
We don't need arithmetic to know the Holy Spirit is our Heavenly Father on a mission to earth in the likeness of man.
.
 
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Grailhunter

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***************Was Yeshua in the Old Testament? Was He a God before He was born? Was He a Spirit?******************

It could be said that mainstream Christianity believes in the pre-existent Christ. And there is biblical support for this….and biblical support that only Yahweh was in the Old Testament….so let’s look at both sides.

1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. The Gospel of John 1:1-10

And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself….Luke 24:27


Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am. So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple….John 8:58-59

And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began….. John 17:5


Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world….. John 17:24
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. Colossians 1:16-17


----In the beginning Yahweh created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:1-----Will the real Creator God please stand up! In most of our Bibles the name of God the Father has been removed and it presents a false perspective. Originally God’s name appeared nearly 6,000 times in the Old Testament. But removing His actual name and changing it to God or Lord, made the word God an actual name. And it has caused a great deal of harm in understand the perspective of Yahweh. So now in our Bibles, the Old Testament scriptures read God and or the Lord, where it was originally Yahweh (and a few other regional names). But when you refer to a God by name….it does not imply three and three persons cannot be applied to one name. So it is harder for People to infer that all three named Gods are one God. So in the interest of accuracy, God’s name will appear in the following scriptures.----

For this is what the Lord Yahweh says—he who created the heavens, he is Yahweh; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited—he says: “I am the Yahweh, and there is no other… Isaiah 45:18

Thus says the Lord Yahweh, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the Lord Yahweh, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself….Isaiah 44:24 (The words Redeemer, Savior, and Salvation in the Old Testament confuse some Christians because they usually refer to either saving people’s lives or freeing them from their oppressors. And it usually refers to Yahweh but also the human warlord king messiah.)


Hear, O Israel: The Lord Yahweh our God, Yahweh is one. You shall love Yahweh your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. And these words that I command to you today shall be on your heart…..Deuteronomy 6:4-5

Remember the former things long past, For I am Yahweh, and there is no other; I am Yahweh, and there is no one like Me…..Isaiah 46:9

You were shown these things so that you might know that Yahweh is God; besides him there is no other….Deuteronomy 4:35


You alone are the LORD. You made the heavens, even the highest heavens, and all their starry host, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all…..Nehemiah 9:6

For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art Yahweh alone…..Psalm 86:10

That men may know that thou, whose name alone is YAHWEH, art the most high over all the earth……Psalm 83:18.

If you put Yahweh’s name back into the scriptures it is very easy to see that the Old Testament is speaking of one God…Yahweh. So these two sets of scriptures do in themselves produce a conundrum of understanding and it is not just the wording of the scriptures. In itself, the Hebrew / Israelite / Jewish religion of the Old Testament was absolutely monolithic by definition….even though they did worship other gods. And this is one of the reasons that the Jews consider Christianity to be a false religion. It was considered idolatry to believe in or pray to a different God. This understanding of the one God thing in the Old Testament was one of…I say one of the reasons it was so important for Christianity to formulate a one God concept in the New Testament….and with Yahweh only being referenced as God or Lord thousands of times in the Old Testament it was easier to deceive.

One God in the Old Testament and one God in the New Testament….right! The deception is working as planned. With God’s name appearing in the original scriptures nearly 6,000 times it was obvious it was one God, one person….and no Godhead like the Trinity. No Jew coined the word Trinity. Gods with more than one aspect only appeared in Pagan religions and this is one reasons people say that God has to be one. So when Yahweh’s name was removed from the Old Testament and replaced with the words God or Lord….most people don’t know enough to even object. To me that is odd….having a Christian Bible with the names of God the Father and God the Son removed. So very few seem to care what the motives for that was, nor the ramifications.

So why did the Roman Ecumenical Councils formulate the doctrine of the Trinity. The early council’s primary focus was to standardize and unite the differing beliefs of Christians to one church. But there were several topics concerning Yahweh and Yeshua that they could not come to an agreement on. So no agreement was made, instead the doctrine of the Trinity was made and then it was one God in the Old Testament and one God in the New Testament and they are the same one God and no further objections could be voiced upon pain of excommunication or death. This was not truth, but rather a silencing of beliefs.

Not even the grand inconsistencies within the doctrine itself were considered, things like in the New Testament where creation is contributed to Yeshua, but if it is one God, no event can be contributed to a single member of the Trinity….effectively they all did it. And then there is the issue of giving authority to yourself and why? Christ not doing His will but the will of another…..His Father…etc.

Is it all a deception? The Roman Church thought that uniting Christianity as one church was paramount, even above truth. Does the means justify the end? It has been an age old questions….The answer….sometimes it is necessary….but the end will always be tainted.

Yahweh does not function as a trio in the Old Testament. They do not talk to one another, nor are certain events assigned or contributed to any God but Yahweh. If you were a Jew and were proclaiming that a God named Yeshua created the world, you would not live long. Same thing goes for proclaiming the Son of God. Of course I do not believe in the one God formula of the Trinity but getting back to the topic at hand….the pre-existent Christ.

So is there away of explaining how Yeshua could have existed from the beginning? There is no possible biblical explanation. So people say the Jews did not / do not understand the Jewish scriptures and the Christians not understanding, suggest that Christians of other denominations do not understand the scriptures! The keywords are “not understanding” but still you cannot harmonize these scriptures……without additional information. But that additional information will fall on the deaf ears of the Fundamentalists, by design.

I have researched several topics and traveled the world looking for answers, but on this topic what gave me the most confidence that I would find an answer was listening to those that spoke in the Spirit. On several occasions I have heard people speaking in the Spirit, talk of the Pre-existent Christ. And one of them was speaking of the event where Christ was talking to His Apostles about Him being in the Old Testament period. --- Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am. So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple….John 8:58-59
 
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Grailhunter

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Christ spoke in parables, stories, and analogies, but when He would say “Truly truly” Ya better perk your ears up and switch the brain on! Because He is saying, this is an absolute fact. So at that point it was a personal thing to find out how this could be.

Of course when you are researching this topic you run into the beliefs of the pre-existence of souls….which was mostly condemned as heresy. Reviewing the writings of the Early Christian writers it can be seen that some were on board with the pre-existent Christ but few were in agreement that Christ was the Creator God. Almighty God is Yahweh, God the Father as attested to by the surviving Christian writings. The tally sheet would show that when the topic came up, most were in agreement with the Pre-existent Christ but very few, if any referred to Christ as the Almighty Creator God.

The writings of the Early Church have been assembled on virtual libraries at these sites….

Early Church Fathers - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

Early Church Fathers

For me, this topic was left open for 30 years. In the meantime I had visited large Christian libraries here in the states which included Lanier. The universities in England, France, and Scotland, I missed my opportunity for the libraries in Sweden and Switzerland.

Of course this was not the only topic I was researching and as I progressed I continued to find examples…evidence of the belief of the pre-existent Christ, put no detailed explanation.

So then we get into the topic of Quantum science. My religion is Christianity but my profession has a lot to do with Quantum science. And some of the conversations I have had with Quantum scientists and professors is something I should share on the forum because it would surprise a lot of people. Sitting in those labs, offices, and cubicles you would be surprised what they would say. But either way I was at Los Alamos one evening and got into this conversation of the pre-existent Christ over pizza and sodas and this physicists said to me….It sounds like time coefficiency. What it means to them is the theory of the relativity of the space time continuum --- Albert Einstein.

This theory is way to complex to explain on this forum…but how it could apply to Christ I can give a simplified explanation. Or I will try. LOL

Einstein believed that watches denote the passage of time….put has no connection to time itself. Time is something more physical, the time continuum being a form of a rhythmic energy ribbon that permeates space and matter. So I am going to try to explain this in a physical representation.

Picture yourself in an underground subway terminal. You get down to a room that is open at one end and the tracks are in front of you. Let’s say the room is thirty feet wide. The subway train is passing from left to right. As it passes, some of the cars are to the left of you, some are in front of you, and some of the cars are to the right of you. The train itself represents the ribbons of time that permeates the entire universe. At any instant of time, the car in front of you represents the present. The cars to the left of you represent the future…that has not occurred yet. The cars to your right represent the past.

As it relates to God the Father….God the Father is in every car….past, present, and future. His existence in the future is different than His presence in the now. His presence in the future is more as a vision or essence. His presence in the past is more than memory because part of His essence remains in the past.

Christ boarded the train at his conception. Part of the characteristic of being a God is that they perceive time differently, they experience and interact and connect with time differently than us…like…they were on this train.


The instant Christ was conceived He connected to this ribbon of Time, this being a function of being a God…He existed in all times. In the past God the Father was wholly there and affecting what was going on. Christ was there also but as a vision or essence, not as the same as He was / is in the present. Not that God the Father did not know He was there and not that they could not communicate ….but there is not going to be anything in the Old Testament scriptures where Christ is affecting the physical. He is not going to be making Laws or addressing people or prophets. And in this perspective Yeshua would still be the Son of Yahweh and He would be witnessing all of history. But Yahweh and Yeshua are not going to be having conversations that appear in the Old Testament texts. Pardon my clumsy analogy and in this context Yeshua would be like a ghost that cannot make most physical things move.

Now this explanation is not going to address the belief that Yeshua created the world… reference the thread on the Logos. And I have simplified this the best I can. Take it for what is worth. For me, it is good enough to believe as a possibility.
 
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