Foreknowledge Vs Destiny ???

1Co 4:7 For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?

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Jas 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God," for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one.
Jas 1:14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.

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musicworld said:

Hi all.. it's been a long time since I've been on here, blessings to everyone.

My first question is about DESTINY.

When it's said that GOD has foreknowledge of the hart.. this means he knows what decision we will make before we are born. Does this then mean if a soul is to be nothing but bad and never chooses to except GOD he destines them for certain things? for what ever reasons we don't know, e.g. In the music industry we've had greats like frank sinatra, Elvis presley, John lennon etc. I believe GOD destined them to be these things and that it wasn't by chance they became what they did but rather according to his will. So how is it then with those who congregate in the mafia or live a life in pornography? is this again due to GODs foreknowledge of the hart that he destines them according to what he knows best?

Is there anything in scripture that can answer this?

Thanks.

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But I also believe we have free will, in terms of our earthly choices. Whether we are saved or not, we still make choices, some good, some bad.

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newguy said:

Rach



This is just an abstract thought.

Does God know our choices before we make them?
If He does then those choices cannot change, so are they really choices?

Just a thought!

The NewGuy

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veteran said:

I hate to sound like I'm throwing a monkey-wrench against popular opinion on this, but here goes.

Jude 1:4
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
(KJV)

To be blunt, God has "before of old ordained" "certain men crept in unawares" to that condemnation of being against Him and His Son.

I like to use the frog and scorpion story to try and explain it. The scorpion asks the frog for a ride on his back to get across the river. The frog then asks the scorpion how can he know the scorpion won't sting him when they get halfway across the river. The scorpion promises he won't. But when they both get halfway across the river, the scorpion does his thing, and stings the frog. The frog then asks why, because they both are going to drown. The scorpion then says, "You don't understand, it's my nature."

The scorpion could still use free will in not stinging the frog, but it would first have to overcome its nature to want to sting. If it were a different insect than a scorpion, the outcome with the frog would be different because of a different type nature. Such are those that have been of old ordaained to condemnation against God and His Son. It's why Jude also refers to them as "brute beasts" later in that same chapter. It's a beast nature that has been ingrained into them. But they still are given free will to overcome that beast nature by repenting and coming to Christ Jesus, and then be counted as sons of God.

Likewise, God has ordained certain ones to be His elect servants sent to preach The Gospel of Jesus Christ, also showing predestination (see John 17). The meaning of the word apostle is the idea of being 'sent' by God.

What does this show about battle lines being setup for this present world?

If you have a calling from God, consider yourself very blessed, because certain ones ordained of old have a calling to be against God, their being imbued with a beast nature to work against Him. Those will have a much more difficult time in wanting to turn to The LORD, but it's still possible for them also.

This Jude Scripture ordaining of certain ones to be against God is hardly if ever mentioned in Churches. Most often what is taught is that we all have the same struggles of the flesh against our spirit. That's true up to a point. Those ordained with the beast nature will have the hardest struggle in coming to Christ. This is also what I believe Christ's future thousand years reign is for prior to going into God's final new heavens and a new earth eternity.

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Anastacia said:

Jude 1:4 (New International Version, ©2010)
[sup]4[/sup] For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about[sup][a][/sup] long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.


Jude 1:4 (New American Standard Bible)

[sup]4[/sup]For certain persons have [sup](A)[/sup]crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn [sup]©[/sup]the grace of our God into [sup](D)[/sup]licentiousness and [sup](E)[/sup]deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.


Calvinism is a false doctrine...in all it's points. I just don't even see how, in these translations especially, anyone can misunderstand this scripture to support Calvinism. It was written about, a long time ago, that some people are so ungodly, that these people would condemn themselves for perverting the grace of our God and deny our Lord Jesus Christ. What a condemnation that is!

Calvinism is such an unnessesary confusion brought into the lives of believers. So much useless discussions about unbelievers....and so much false information and speculation about why they don't believe.

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veteran said:

The Jude Scripture is clear. Using other Bible translations that only get further away from the KJV translation won't change the manuscript meaning, for it's about the tares of Matt.13. This is not Calvinism, for Calvinists propose that only those predestined to Christ can be saved. Predestination of God's elect is a very Biblical doctrine, because it simply means that God has setup certain ones to serve in The Gospel for the benefit of all others who would believe. It does not leave anyone out that makes a choice to believe on The Saviour. That's not Calvinism.

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Anastacia said:

I wasn't trying to find other Bible translations that might get further away from the KJV, as you suggest I did. What I was doing was showing two better translations for understandable English. Because so many are from the reformed churches (Calvinsism), and I thought that you were suggesting the predestination of Calvinism.

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As for you saying "this is not Calvinism," my point of posting was to say it isn't about Calvinism, yet it is a scripture Calvinists use to try to prove their false beliefs. Not sure if you just wanted to post to agree with me, or if you misunderstood me and wanted to correct me. lol I'm sorry I misunderstood you and glad we do agree.

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Can you explain why you think Jude 1:4 is about the tares of Matthew 13?

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veteran said:

My replies to veteran in blue.

I understand, and no offense, but I see translations like NIV as getting farther away from the KJV translation and Greek texts. It's because the NIV NT is from a different set of Greek NT manuscripts than the Majority Texts used for the KJV NT. The NASV you also quoted tends to get away from the Greek Majority Texts, but it's still closer to the KJV English meaning (and manuscript meaning). So the idea that newer more modern Bible translations are more accurate into the English is really a myth.
Do you mean because the NIV is from Alexandrian texts, and the KJV is from the Antioch texts? I think you are wrong to put down the NIV. The KJV is known to of added to the scriptures. The NIV is more understandable.


Calvinism agrees much with early Church tradition and basic tenets of the Protestant Reformation. But on the idea of predestination they tend to have a unique idea that only a predestined elect will be saved by Christ.
As far as I know, Martin Luther did not have all the same beliefs of predestination as Calvin. And, though Augustine had some predestination errors, I don't think the Catholics even had any of those beliefs. I have learned that most churches nowadays, with the word "Reformed" in their title, that is "Christian" denomination churches, are Calvinistic.


That God does have an elect which He predestinated, sanctified, justified, and glorified is true, for that's what apostle Paul taught in Romans 8. The people God foreknew where the Jews. And those God foreknew (the Jews) were also predestined---to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, even though many of the Jews didn't believe in Jesus. The plan of salvation was the predestination. Not people for the plan.


But there's more, because our Lord in John 17 reveals two groups about His Salvation. This is what I am beginning to understand more clearly, of what I believe where you get off track of the meaning of the scriptures. The first group are those whom He 'sent' that are not of this world, for to bring The Gospel forth. No believer is of this world. And the Bible talks about different groups of people, but not in the way you do. The Jews are a group of people who were the first. And the Gentiles are a group of people who were the last. You are suggesting that the first group is from another world, and that the second group are just regular people on earth...neither too bad, nor too good. Again, no believer is considered of this world. And really, though, you have three groups. You forgot to mention the third group being the tares, three groups, according to your beliefs.


The second group are those who 'hear' The Gospel through their word (preaching), and also believe. Then both become one in Christ. The evidence for the first group of predestinated elect sent ones are those whom God ordained as stewards of The Gospel, all the way back in OT history to the present. Apostle Paul was prima facia evidence of a predestinated chosen elect, simply because Christ directly intervened in Paul's own will.
Surely God chose who would be the Twelve Apostles to the Lamb, and all the prophets and apostles, for the laying of the foundation. But you seem to have made a different teaching out of these righteous people, all the righteous people from the Old Testament, than you do from all other righteous people....but that is not biblical.


The 'tares' our Lord Jesus spoke of in Matt.13 represent the children of darkness (Matt.13:38-40). In the Old Testament they were called the "workers of iniquity". The idea of a real tare in horticulture is about a weed that looks just like real wheat while it's growing, but exhibits a black bud on the end of it when fully grown. The problem of trying to separate them from the real wheat is they are unrecognizable as tares while growing.
I've debated someone before who believed the devil had children that he had made and formed on the earth. You are not of that belief, are you? Aren't all who reject Jesus workers of iniquity? I think you get off from the message, and look for messages in the message. But the Bible tells us that the mystery has been revealed, and that nothing is kept secret from us. So why do some people keep finding hidden messages in the message?

Our Lord explained the meaning of the parable of the tares at the end of that chapter to His disciples in private when they asked Him. In His explanation He was not giving another parable. It's hard for many to accept what He explained there, but that's the choice each is faced with. The tares are not just about good people that turn wicked. It's about a group of the devil's own elect servants that exist upon this earth. Many don't want to admit it, but there's a group of people on this earth that literally worship the devil, and know it's the devil they worship and want to serve him. It's about those born into that 'brute beast' nature I covered in a previous post.

Can a tare overcome their 'brute beast' nature and be saved in Christ Jesus? Yes. Will the majority of them turn to Christ and be saved? No, for we know even after Christ's Milennium reign there will be those that will go into the lake of fire with Satan and the abode of hell. That's the fate of the tares our Lord explained in Matt.13:40-42.

Ps 125:4-5
4 Do good, O LORD, unto those that be good, and to them that are upright in their hearts.
5 As for such as turn aside unto their crooked ways, the LORD shall lead them forth with the workers of iniquity: but peace shall be upon Israel.
(KJV)

Is there a certain denomination that has your same beliefs? Or perhaps an author? And, if you want to discuss this more...do you have more scriptures you'd like to use to support your beliefs?

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As far as I know, Martin Luther did not have all the same beliefs of predestination as Calvin. And, though Augustine had some predestination errors, I don't think the Catholics even had any of those beliefs. I have learned that most churches nowadays, with the word "Reformed" in their title, that is "Christian" denomination churches, are Calvinistic.

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The people God foreknew where the Jews. And those God foreknew (the Jews) were also predestined---to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, even though many of the Jews didn't believe in Jesus. The plan of salvation was the predestination. Not people for the plan.

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This is what I am beginning to understand more clearly, of what I believe where you get off track of the meaning of the scriptures. No believer is of this world. And the Bible talks about different groups of people, but not in the way you do. The Jews are a group of people who were the first. And the Gentiles are a group of people who were the last. You are suggesting that the first group is from another world, and that the second group are just regular people on earth...neither too bad, nor too good. Again, no believer is considered of this world. And really, though, you have three groups. You forgot to mention the third group being the tares, three groups, according to your beliefs.

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Surely God chose who would be the Twelve Apostles to the Lamb, and all the prophets and apostles, for the laying of the foundation. But you seem to have made a different teaching out of these righteous people, all the righteous people from the Old Testament, than you do from all other righteous people....but that is not biblical.

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I've debated someone before who believed the devil had children that he had made and formed on the earth. You are not of that belief, are you? Aren't all who reject Jesus workers of iniquity? I think you get off from the message, and look for messages in the message. But the Bible tells us that the mystery has been revealed, and that nothing is kept secret from us. So why do some people keep finding hidden messages in the message?

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Is there a certain denomination that has your same beliefs? Or perhaps an author? And, if you want to discuss this more...do you have more scriptures you'd like to use to support your beliefs?

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veteran said:

My replies to veteran in blue.

Well, I'm not going debate you on that issue of the NIV being a product of the Alexandrian school in Alexandria, Egypt, and not what the first Church at Antioch used. We'll just have to disagree on that.

The Alexandrian texts are older than the Antioch texts. And the Alexandrian texts were found part of the Dead Sea Scrolls. And that is from what the NIV is translated from. And again, the KJV has added to the Bible.



Does that then mean you don't define yourself as a Christian? If not, then what title do you apply to your belief?

Why would you say that to me? I am a Christian. You might need to reread what I said to make you say that.


So, have you really come here to express the idea of Jewishness in contrast to the Christian believer? I don't understand what you are getting at. The Bible tells us the Jews were God's first and chosen people.


I might remind you, the title of 'Jew' originated from the sole tribe of Judah. And it later applied to only the three tribed remnant of the "house of Judah" that returned to Jerusalem from the 70 years Babylon captivity (per Jewish historian Josephus in 100 A.D.). The majority of Israelites were not Jews of Judah. So God's foreknowledge of Israel is not only about Jews, but about a remnant from ALL 12 tribes of Israel. I'm not trying to be testy, I'm speaking of Bible history.
I go by the Bible, and not what a historian that isn't in the Bible believes about God. And I think you are trying to throw this conversation of track some. The Jews are God's first and chosen people, they are the people God "foreknew."



That idea of my getting off track of the meaning of Scripture is your opinion. I recognize that you have an opinion too. But it doesn't mean I'm going to agree. For others that might be interested in what I was covering from John 17, here it is...
Why bring up 'opinion'? We are both speaking of what we believe the scriptures to say. And why even say "but it doesn't mean I'm going to agree"? Would you not like me to agree with you?

And see here what you explain in the following.....

John 17:16-21
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth.
18 As Thou hast sent Me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in Us: that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me.
(KJV)

The first underlined group is especially about Christ's Apostles He 'sent' into this world, for that's what is meant by the word apostle, to be sent. But the next group are not apostles, but those who believe on Christ through the Apostle's word. Both together become one in Christ Jesus, His Church. That second group that convert to Christ through the preaching of The Gospel by His sents ones of course includes any of the 'tares' that convert to Christ.
What you explained is not what the scriptures say. You said the apostles were not of this world. But no believer is of this world anymore, not after becoming a new creation, not after becoming alive in the spirit, not after being dead in the flesh.
You also seem to slightly misunderstand where Jesus says "even so have I also sent them into the world" as meaning the apostles came also from heaven (like Jesus did).



I really don't understand your disagreement, for God's chosen included the OT patriarchs and prophets, and those who fulfilled God's Plan in those times. But did ALL Israel do that? No, as OT history reveals, the majority of Israel were blinded and fell away, just as the majority of Jews still are in blindness apart from Christ Jesus today. God's Word explains why that is, other than for the cause of rebelliousness.
Don't you believe that there were other righteous people alive during the Old Testament times that were righteous, but who were mentioned in the Old Testament?



Each believer on Christ Jesus must choose how they understand the parable of the tares of the field He explained in Matt.13. All I'm saying is that just as God has His chosen in His Plan of Salvation, so does the devil have his chosen that work iniquity for him, and that's the tares. If the evil in this world was only from righteous people that fall away from God, I think we'd already be living in a much better world today. But alas, the workers of iniquity are here to serve the devil, and to lead astray as many as will.
Who said the "evil in this world was only from righteous people that fall away from God"? I didn't say that. But it really does sound like you are getting into a belief that Satan created from himself, literally, some people. You sure defended the people who have that false belief. I believe Jesus explains the parable, and what Jesus says is not what you are saying.


I'm non-denominational. I've studied The Bible at one time or another with just about every Christian denomination, including Messianic Jews. It's much easier when one sticks to The Bible instead of arguing over denominations which are nothing but divisions in Christ's Body that should not exist.

I think you are misunderstanding why I asked if your beliefs on this are beliefs from a denomination. Who is "arguing over denominations"? You say we should stick to the Bible instead of arguing over denominations.....that is what I wanted to make sure we were doing.

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The Alexandrian texts are older than the Antioch texts. And the Alexandrian texts were found part of the Dead Sea Scrolls. And that is from what the NIV is translated from. And again, the KJV has added to the Bible.

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Why would you say that to me? I am a Christian. You might need to reread what I said to make you say that.


So, have you really come here to express the idea of Jewishness in contrast to the Christian believer? I don't understand what you are getting at. The Bible tells us the Jews were God's first and chosen people.

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I might remind you, the title of 'Jew' originated from the sole tribe of Judah. And it later applied to only the three tribed remnant of the "house of Judah" that returned to Jerusalem from the 70 years Babylon captivity (per Jewish historian Josephus in 100 A.D.). The majority of Israelites were not Jews of Judah. So God's foreknowledge of Israel is not only about Jews, but about a remnant from ALL 12 tribes of Israel. I'm not trying to be testy, I'm speaking of Bible history.
I go by the Bible, and not what a historian that isn't in the Bible believes about God. And I think you are trying to throw this conversation of track some. The Jews are God's first and chosen people, they are the people God "foreknew."

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That idea of my getting off track of the meaning of Scripture is your opinion. I recognize that you have an opinion too. But it doesn't mean I'm going to agree. For others that might be interested in what I was covering from John 17, here it is...
Why bring up 'opinion'? We are both speaking of what we believe the scriptures to say. And why even say "but it doesn't mean I'm going to agree"? Would you not like me to agree with you?

And see here what you explain in the following.....

John 17:16-21
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth.
18 As Thou hast sent Me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in Us: that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me.
(KJV)

The first underlined group is especially about Christ's Apostles He 'sent' into this world, for that's what is meant by the word apostle, to be sent. But the next group are not apostles, but those who believe on Christ through the Apostle's word. Both together become one in Christ Jesus, His Church. That second group that convert to Christ through the preaching of The Gospel by His sents ones of course includes any of the 'tares' that convert to Christ.
What you explained is not what the scriptures say. You said the apostles were not of this world. But no believer is of this world anymore, not after becoming a new creation, not after becoming alive in the spirit, not after being dead in the flesh.
You also seem to slightly misunderstand where Jesus says "even so have I also sent them into the world" as meaning the apostles came also from heaven (like Jesus did).

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Don't you believe that there were other righteous people alive during the Old Testament times that were righteous, but who were mentioned in the Old Testament?

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Who said the "evil in this world was only from righteous people that fall away from God"? I didn't say that. But it really does sound like you are getting into a belief that Satan created from himself, literally, some people. You sure defended the people who have that false belief. I believe Jesus explains the parable, and what Jesus says is not what you are saying.

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I think you are misunderstanding why I asked if your beliefs on this are beliefs from a denomination. Who is "arguing over denominations"? You say we should stick to the Bible instead of arguing over denominations.....that is what I wanted to make sure we were doing.

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The Word said:

All these scriptures shows how God chose his prophets, Jesus and saints. The last two scriptures shows God giving everything to man because he planned everything before he created it.

Ephesians 1:

1: Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are also faithful in Christ Jesus:
2: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
4: even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.
5: He destined us in love to be his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
6: to the praise of his glorious grace which he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

9: For he has made known to us in all wisdom and insight the mystery of his will, according to his purpose which he set forth in Christ
10: as a plan for the fulness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.
11: In him, according to the purpose of him who accomplishes all things according to the counsel of his will,
12: we who first hoped in Christ have been destined and appointed to live for the praise of his glory.
13: In him you also, who have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and have believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
14: which is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory. Romans 9:

28: We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose.
29: For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren.
30: And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified. II Thesalonians 2:

13: But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
14: To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. I Corinthians 1:

25: For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26: For consider your call, brethren; not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth;
27: but God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise, God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong,
28: God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are,
29: so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.

James 2:

5: Listen, my beloved brethren. Has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which he has promised to those who love him?


Mark 13:

20: And if the Lord had not shortened the days, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days.
22: False Christs and false prophets will arise and show signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect.

John 15: 16

16: You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide; so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.
I Peter 1:

1: Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappado'cia, Asia, and Bithyn'ia,
2: chosen and destined by God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you. Jeremiah 15:

15: Behold, I am bringing upon you a nation from afar, O house of Israel, says the LORD. It is an enduring nation, it is an ancient nation, a nation whose language you do not know, nor can you understand what they say.

Psalm 33:

12: Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD, the people whom he has chosen as his heritage!

1 John 4

6: We are of God. Whoever knows God listens to us, and he who is not of God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

1 John 5:

19: We know that we are of God, and the whole world is in the power of the evil one.
20: And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, to know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

Romans 8:

28: We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose.
29: For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren.

I Corinthians 2:

7: But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glorification.
8: None of the rulers of this age understood this; for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Acts 13:

47: For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, `I have set you to be a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the uttermost parts of the earth.'"
48: And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of God; and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Acts 4:

27: for truly in this city there were gathered together against thy holy servant Jesus, whom thou didst anoint, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel,
28: to do whatever thy hand and thy plan had predestined to take place.

Psalm 135:

4: For the LORD has chosen Jacob for himself, Israel as his own possession.

Revelation 17:

13: These are of one mind and give over their power and authority to the beast;
14: they will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful."

Romans 11:

3: "Lord, they have killed thy prophets, they have demolished thy altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life."
4: But what is God's reply to him? "I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Ba'al."
5: So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.
6: But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
7: What then? Israel failed to obtain what it sought. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened,
8: as it is written, "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that should not see and ears that should not hear, down to this very day."

1 Peter 2:

1: So put away all malice and all guile and insincerity and envy and all slander.
2: Like newborn babes, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up to salvation;
3: for you have tasted the kindness of the Lord.
4: Come to him, to that living stone, rejected by men but in God's sight chosen and precious;
5: and like living stones be yourselves built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
6: For it stands in scripture: "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and he who believes in him will not be put to shame."
7: To you therefore who believe, he is precious, but for those who do not believe, "The very stone which the builders rejected has become the head of the corner,"
8: and "A stone that will make men stumble, a rock that will make them fall"; for they stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.
9: But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's own people, that you may declare the wonderful deeds of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
10: Once you were no people but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy but now you have received mercy. Isaiah 41:

8: But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, the offspring of Abraham, my friend;
9: you whom I took from the ends of the earth, and called from its farthest corners, saying to you, "You are my servant, I have chosen you and not cast you off";
10: fear not, for I am with you, be not dismayed, for I am your God; I will strengthen you, I will help you, I will uphold you with my victorious right hand.
11: Behold, all who are incensed against you shall be put to shame and confounded; those who strive against you shall be as nothing and shall perish.
12: You shall seek those who contend with you, but you shall not find them; those who war against you shall be as nothing at all.
13: For I, the LORD your God, hold your right hand; it is I who say to you, "Fear not, I will help you."


Micah 4:

6: In that day, says the LORD, I will assemble the lame and gather those who have been driven away, and those whom I have afflicted;
7: and the lame I will make the remnant; and those who were cast off, a strong nation; and the LORD will reign over them in Mount Zion from this time forth and for evermore.



Acts 17: 24-31
24: The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in shrines made by man,
25: nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all men life and breath and everything.
26: And he made from one every nation of men to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their habitation,


[font="Times New Roman][size="3"]Deuteronomy, chapter 32[/font]
39: "`See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.

Exodus 4:

10: But Moses said to the LORD, "Oh, my Lord, I am not eloquent, either heretofore or since thou hast spoken to thy servant; but I am slow of speech and of tongue."
11: Then the LORD said to him, "Who has made man's mouth? Who makes him dumb, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the LORD?
12: Now therefore go, and I will be with your mouth and teach you what you shall speak."

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musicworld said:

Hi all.. it's been a long time since I've been on here, blessings to everyone.

My first question is about DESTINY.

When it's said that GOD has foreknowledge of the hart.. this means he knows what decision we will make before we are born. Does this then mean if a soul is to be nothing but bad and never chooses to except GOD he destines them for certain things? for what ever reasons we don't know, e.g. In the music industry we've had greats like frank sinatra, Elvis presley, John lennon etc. I believe GOD destined them to be these things and that it wasn't by chance they became what they did but rather according to his will. So how is it then with those who congregate in the mafia or live a life in pornography? is this again due to GODs foreknowledge of the hart that he destines them according to what he knows best?

Is there anything in scripture that can answer this?

Thanks.

Click to expand...

musicworld said:

Hi all.. it's been a long time since I've been on here, blessings to everyone.

My first question is about DESTINY.

When it's said that GOD has foreknowledge of the hart.. this means he knows what decision we will make before we are born. Does this then mean if a soul is to be nothing but bad and never chooses to except GOD he destines them for certain things? for what ever reasons we don't know, e.g. In the music industry we've had greats like frank sinatra, Elvis presley, John lennon etc. I believe GOD destined them to be these things and that it wasn't by chance they became what they did but rather according to his will. So how is it then with those who congregate in the mafia or live a life in pornography? is this again due to GODs foreknowledge of the hart that he destines them according to what he knows best?

Is there anything in scripture that can answer this?

Thanks.

Click to expand...