Understanding The Trinity ???

Vengle53 · Jan 29, 2011

bud02 said:
Is this your way of saying your not going to reply to my post.

I have no problem with speaking to you bud02. I don't write people I like off that hastily.

I merely had to break for a late dinner.

But in the things you say it is clear to me that you are not hearing at all what I say. You are instead taking what I say in a sensitive way.

In a nutshell what I have said really only amounts to, "Stick to the doctrines that were taught by Jesus Christ and the elders of the New Covenant as recorded in the NT." Be obedient to them alone. Christ Jesus is the chief cornerstone and they are the foundation stones. When we diviate to pursue teachings they did not show concern with we risk corrupting the temple of God through gambling on our own intelligence.

You as we all have been caught in the middle of that Son of Destruction who has been with us for a while now. He is not one person as so many say. He is spoken of as a singular entity only as was Jerusalem and many nations in the OT refferred to as a woman.

He came into the true temple (the true church of Christ as Eph 2: 19-22 speaks of) by way of the tares that intwined their roots into the furtile hearts of the wheat in God's field. Remember how I said in another post that pure teachings are our roots were the good seeds of teching have been sown in our heart? And I said the furtile soil of that field is the wheat like one's hearts? That is how he came to stand up in the temple of God proclaiming himself as God, changing the times and seasons that the Bible taught for the benefit of true followers of Christ.

That is why 2 Thessalonians 2:7a "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work": in Paul's day.

If you are unwilling to see any of this, so be it. That is your right.

bud02 · Jan 29, 2011

Walking in Grace said:
I have no problem with speaking to you bud02. I don't write people I like off that hastily.

I merely had to break for a late dinner.

But in the things you say it is clear to me that you are not hearing at all what I say. You are instead taking what I say in a sensitive way.

In a nutshell what I have said really only amounts to, "Stick to the doctrines that were taught by Jesus Christ and the elders of the New Covenant as recorded in the NT." Be obedient to them alone. Christ Jesus is the chief cornerstone and they are the foundation stones. When we diviate to pursue teachings they did not show concern with we risk corrupting the temple of God through gambling on our own intelligence.

You as we all have been caught in the middle of that Son of Destruction who has been with us for a while now. He is not one person as so many say. He is spoken of as a singular entity only as was Jerusalem and many nations in the OT refferred to as a woman.

He came into the true temple (the true church of Christ as Eph 2: 19-22 speaks of) by way of the tares that intwined their roots into the furtile hearts of the wheat in God's field. Remember how I said in another post that pure teachings are our roots were the good seeds of teching have been sown in our heart? And I said the furtile soil of that field is the wheat like one's hearts? That is how he came to stand up in the temple of God proclaiming himself as God, changing the times and seasons that the Bible taught for the benefit of true followers of Christ.

That is why 2 Thessalonians 2:7a "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work": in Paul's day.

If you are unwilling to see any of this, so be it. That is your right.

Thank you for the reply I have read it over and then read the last line.

I could just as easily reply in the same manor about your silence on the several verses / topics I posted above. As you say that's your right.
In this and the other thread we have been speaking in, its a matter of getting to know one another. I find that we agree on much fundamental doctrine. More than most I meet.
In that please excuse my inquiry into difficult topics but remember silence is not the answer nor does it cause the question of biblical, physical and historical evidence to go away. In so much I will always agree that the Hebrews / Jews hold the finial key to salvation John 4:22 . To that end I will never relent or compromise. For someone to imply differently about myself, they will always be meet with opposition.

Vengle53 · Jan 30, 2011

bud02 said:
Thank you for the reply I have read it over and then read the last line.

I could just as easily reply in the same manor about your silence on the several verses / topics I posted above. As you say that's your right.
In this and the other thread we have been speaking in, its a matter of getting to know one another. I find that we agree on much fundamental doctrine. More than most I meet.
In that please excuse my inquiry into difficult topics but remember silence is not the answer nor does it cause the question of biblical, physical and historical evidence to go away. In so much I will always agree that the Hebrews / Jews hold the finial key to salvation John 4:22 . To that end I will never relent or compromise. For someone to imply differently about myself, they will always be meet with opposition.

That is right. Salvation is from the Jews just as you point out.

Now, who really is that (or, those) Jews?

I know you know the answer to that. And I speak this only for the sake of those who look on and so draw conclusions, because many will see it as proof that salvation comes from Jews of flesh.

Yet, you and I both know that no life can come from the flesh. That by itself warrants the question, "Who really are those Jews?"

And Paul answered that quite clearly for us, didn't he.

I think you know that at times Paul boasted in his flesh only because though who were trying to subvert his flock were boasting in their fleshly heritage as a Jew.

2 Corinthians 11:18 "Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also."

Do not allow anyone to make you forget that. We must understand that Paul never boasted that the fleshly Jew was special just because the person was a fleshly Jew. He boasted to cut off occasion from those who were using their fleshly lineage as proof that they had authority equal to Paul's.

But because Paul never agreed that such boasting was proper, he concluded: 2 Corinthians 11:30 "If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities."

We see at 2 Corinthians 10:7-8 that Paul there had to boast of his authority as a minister in Christ for the very same reason; others were boasting in such authority whereby they were leading his flock astray and he needed to cut off that occasion from them.

I think in a previous post, perhaps somewhere in another thread, I don't know, I spoke about what Paul was saying in places like Romans 3:1-7 and Romans 11:1-36 when he seems to being saying that just by virtue of being a fleshly Jew there is something special about them as a people and individually.

All Paul really ever said is that the natural Jew had the advantage of becoming acquainted with the Oracles of God and so therefore greater chance to understand what they meant than the johnny come lately Gentiles.

Anything more than that which men read into Paul's words is due to their difficulty at seeing how unimportant the flesh is. The flesh is dead but the spirit is life in Christ.

Anastacia · Feb 17, 2011

Walking in Grace said:
After you have finished pondering post #91, let us begin to look for the proper way to reason together.

Men having mingled their own mysteries into the mysteries of God within the fertile soil of our hearts, how do we now go about untangling them so that we might see men's inventions and eliminate them out of our hearts?

The importance of this subject is in the fact that men today cast hate at one another based on whether they believe Jesus is God as well as the Son of God, or just the Son of God. If we cannot resolve in our hearts which of those two choices he is, then at least resolve that hate. Many on both sides spew hateful words of condemnation toward their brothers, saying, "If you do not believe Jesus is God you will burn in hell", or saying, "Because you believe Jesus is God you will burn in hell". Of course some who do not believe in eternal torment by a literal hell fire simply say that the other will be condemned to eternal death. I cannot believe that our loving God looks well upon either side for this childish conduct.

Lets first seek to find what we are able to agree upon in scripture.

We can all agree that Jesus is referred to as himself directly saying he was "the Son of God". Matthew 27:43 "He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God."

We can all agree that the tempter (Satan the devil) saw him as "the Son of God": Matthew 4:3 "And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread." - Matthew 4:6 "And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone."

We can all agree that the demons saw Jesus as "the Son of God": Matthew 8:29 "And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?"

We can all agree that Jesus disciples saw Jesus' ability to perform great miracles as being because he is "the Son of God": Matthew 14:33 "Then they that were in the ship came and worshiped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God."

We can all agree that the affect upon the Roman Centurions seeing the earthquake and other miraculous things while attending Jesus' death, concluded that it the stories they had heard about Jesus being "the Son of God" must be true: Matthew 27:54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

We should all be able to agree (if we cast away our childishness) that whenever the scriptures tell us that, "If you do not believe you will die in your sins", it is referring to not believing the following: John 3:18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

We should also all be able to agree that Jesus himself said that the Jews persecuted him, not because he said he was God, but because he said he was "the Son of God"" John 10:36 "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"

And we should all understand that a good Son is equated even by us as equal to his father.

Ponder this much and tell me, have we established a base here upon which we can all agree?

I am not asking this of those that go beyond the Bible into the works of men touting it as proof. 2 Timothy 3:16- 17 'All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

To go beyond the Bible is only increases one's chances of being misled. We can use extraneous material to help understand parts of scripture but not in such a way that gives that extraneous material domination over the Bible.

Bud02 and I have only spoke according to the scriptures. We did not go beyond what is written. We did not lean to the right nor to the left. We did not add nor take away.

You need to check yourself before attempting to slander true believers, true believers who don't deserve this type of sermon from you.

Anastacia · Feb 17, 2011

Walking in Grace said:
If any of this feels personal to anyone it is the spirit trying to convict.

More like...you are trying to falsely judge God's children.

Anastacia · Feb 17, 2011

Walking in Grace said:
My faith tells me that God does not expect us to understand everything at this present time. But he does expect us to learn and understand certain necessary things. And I view those that muse openly about unnecessary things as having subtle pride in their own intelligence with which they lead men's attention away from those more important things pertaining to salvation that God wants us to focus on at this time.

These sorts of people are trying to appear more mature than the saintliest of saints who did not see fit to wrangle the ideas they do.

Your faith tells you? Looks like you are guilty of the very thing you falsely accuse some believers of, and that is pride in your "own intelligence," as you say. Who do you think you are to judge God's servants? And who do you think you are to be the judge on what is more important? You exalt yourself above other believers, that is sin. You also sin by judging God's servants, and falsely judging at that. You show much jealousy here the way in which you speak to us, which is something you should contemplate repenting of, on top of everything else you did in this thread.

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