The Mercy of the Lord Endureth Forever - Except to the Billions He Burns in HELL for Eternity

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justbyfaith

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When Adam was created by both God the Father and God the Son,
1. Did Adam become a living soul,
or did he receive a living soul?
He became a living soul when he received his spirit from the Lord.

His soul existed as the result of a union between the spirit God breathed into him and his body.

see thread: Hebrews 4:12.
 

Earburner

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Oh, and I might add:
In relation to our personal understanding of the word "soul", for whatever other "circle of thought" we shall entertain, if we be in error about "a living soul", that conclusion will rule us throught out all other concepts of biblical doctrine, right to end.
So, when the blindfold comes off, don't be surprised to find yourself in every "circle of thought", having an error rate of 359 to 1, according to my analogy.
 

Earburner

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He became a living soul when he received his spirit from the Lord.

His soul existed as the result of a union between the spirit God breathed into him and his body.

see thread: Hebrews 4:12.
Hi JBF,
Thanks for your reply!
I also read your reference of Heb. 4:12 and your comments there.

Did you know that our conclusion of what a "a living soul" is, is based on an assumption? We assume by the words "breathed" and "the breath of life", that it is God giving forth to Adam, a portion or part of Himself (spirit). In that situation of Gen. 2:7, the correct reference of the Hebrew word for "breathed" is naphac. The correct word for"breath of life" is neshama or nishma.
However, in Gen. 6:17; 7:15, 22, it is there that we find the word rauch being used for the word "breath of life", of which all, both human and animal do breathe.

So then, my argument is that God breathed into Adam oxygenated air, and not a portion of His spirit.
And so, "man became a living "soul" Gen. 2:7.
Now, the word "soul" in Gen. 2:7, in the Hebrew is nephesh, which means "animal life". That same word and meaning, as it was applied to Adam, is applied also to all life that breathes oxygenated air. Please see Gen. 6:17 and Gen. 7:22
 

Earburner

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As you can see, right out of the gate, just by the one word "soul", and our understanding of it, whether in truth or error, it shall taint and/or color every biblical "circle of thought" and doctrine.
Therefore, it begs us to get it right!!
For if we are one degree off about the word "soul" , then for sure our personal understanding and doctrines WILL miss the mark of God's understanding about His own words. And if we don't have His understanding, then its safe to conclude that we have our own, which is full of error.
 

Truther

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Yes or No?

Matthew 5:37 Let your Yea, be Yea, and your Nay be Nay, everything else is evil.

Should Psalm 136 add verse 27? -
"Give thanks to the Lord, who torments billions for eternity, whose mercy endures forever" ????

Psalm
136
O give thanks unto the Lord; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever.

2 O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever.

3 O give thanks to the Lord of lords: for his mercy endureth for ever.

4 To him who alone doeth great wonders: for his mercy endureth for ever.

5 To him that by wisdom made the heavens: for his mercy endureth for ever.

6 To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy endureth for ever.

7 To him that made great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever:

8 The sun to rule by day: for his mercy endureth for ever:

9 The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever.

10 To him that smote Egypt in their firstborn: for his mercy endureth for ever:

11 And brought out Israel from among them: for his mercy endureth for ever:

12 With a strong hand, and with a stretched out arm: for his mercy endureth for ever.

13 To him which divided the Red sea into parts: for his mercy endureth for ever:

14 And made Israel to pass through the midst of it: for his mercy endureth for ever:

15 But overthrew Pharaoh and his host in the Red sea: for his mercy endureth for ever.

16 To him which led his people through the wilderness: for his mercy endureth for ever.

17 To him which smote great kings: for his mercy endureth for ever:

18 And slew famous kings: for his mercy endureth for ever:

19 Sihon king of the Amorites: for his mercy endureth for ever:

20 And Og the king of Bashan: for his mercy endureth for ever:

21 And gave their land for an heritage: for his mercy endureth for ever:

22 Even an heritage unto Israel his servant: for his mercy endureth for ever.

23 Who remembered us in our low estate: for his mercy endureth for ever:

24 And hath redeemed us from our enemies: for his mercy endureth for ever.

25 Who giveth food to all flesh: for his mercy endureth for ever.

26 O give thanks unto the God of heaven: for his mercy endureth for ever.
14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.

It is growing so obey Acts 2:38 and save yourself...
 

Earburner

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14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.

It is growing so obey Acts 2:38 and save yourself...
You are of course meaning the grave, of which WHEN the Lord returns in flaming fire, all the wicked will destroyed in that same Day, WHEN the Lord returns for His saints. KJv- 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10
 
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Randy Kluth

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Yes or No?

Matthew 5:37 Let your Yea, be Yea, and your Nay be Nay, everything else is evil.

Should Psalm 136 add verse 27? -
"Give thanks to the Lord, who torments billions for eternity, whose mercy endures forever" ????

Ignoring the bad spirit in your statement, I'll try to respond. God has a right to torment the wicked, who have chosen to not submit to the righteous God who made them. They are, as such, tormented by their own evil choice. It is just. An eternal choice against a righteous Creator merits eternal torment for having made an eternal choice against the good.

Now mind you I'm not one who believes in Hell as depicted in Dante's Inferno. I believe "torment" is regret, and the depression associated with that. God does not do what He has condemned wicked men for doing. He isn't sadistic, but rather, judges men for being so.

I'm not sure any of us know, specifically, what the Lake of Fire represents. I just don't happen to think it represents the kind of fire that burns human skin for all eternity. That would indeed be sadistic, as far as I can see.

The Lake of Fire means, for me, that the entire portion of wicked men in God's eternal Kingdom is destroyed, such as one might burn all of the debris left over after constructing a house. Burning that debris is not "torturing" the wood. Rather, it is disposing of it.

The Lake of Fire, as such, removes the place of wicked men in God's eternal Kingdom. They are not tortured in the place of their eternal destiny--their place in God's Kingdom is simply removed by the eternal Lake of Fire. All that remains is the loss of fellowship with God, the loss of His good pleasure, and the depression that results. They gnash their teeth--that's depression! They are full of remorse!

So for me, we're just talking about being separated from God's chosen, in a place where Divine fellowship is limited to practical need. No spiritual joy there. This is the loss of what is pleasurable about God's Kingdom. And it is the depression and the regret that remains.

The mercy that God shows His chosen forever is eternal forgiveness for sins that they have committed in time. It is an eternal pass for having gone the wrong way at times.

But those who receive this mercy have chosen to live by God's way, and not by Man's way. As such, they not only get God, but they get His pardon, as well. For having turned to righteousness forever, they get God's eternal favor and pardon.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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You did not answer Yes or No.
Tough one isn't it? Not for those in TRUTH.
You better research the greek phrase Kolasin Aionion in Matthew 25:46.
I won't hold my breath if you're an ED - Eternal Damnationist.


Well I am an ED and I have researched kolasis aionion

Kolasis = correction, penalty punishment. It is a negative term. correction being a punitive not a corrective thing.

aionion= everlasting. Its root (aion) refers to an undefined span of time (noun) or an undefined age. when used as an adjective like here it almost exclusively means ever lasting or eternal!

This same adjective in the same construct is used for the word "eternal" further on in this verse. It means eternal!

And God doesn't burn th elost in hell for eternity. they be default earned that punishmentr for themselves. Just like a judge does not sentence a criminal to jail. the criminal sentences himself and the judge just orders the criminal to pay the sentnece for th ecrime committed.
 

101G

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Addressing the OP. Yea or Nay? 1 Corinthians 5:5 and 1 Corinthians 3:12-15, especially verse 15.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

Truther

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You are of course meaning the grave, of which WHEN the Lord returns in flaming fire, all the wicked will destroyed in that same Day, WHEN the Lord returns for His saints. KJv- 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10
Hell is hell. It get's bigger just like sin increases.
 

101G

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Hell is hell. It get's bigger just like sin increases.
agreed, but hence this is our GREAT COMMISSION, to render its increase space useless. Isaiah 14:9 "Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations."
and the kings of the nations are us christians. so lets tell the truth and rent no space to no man.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 
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marks

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Then we can look at the Devil - "the spirit that works IN the children of disobedience" - Eph 2:2.
Let's start here . . .

upload_2021-3-22_10-28-44.png

The prince of the power of the air, the spirit now working . . .

This "spirit now working", this does not refer to the "prince", it refers to the "power of the air". Check the accusative/genetive.

Much love!
 

Wrangler

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Yes or No?

Matthew 5:37 Let your Yea, be Yea, and your Nay be Nay, everything else is evil.

Should Psalm 136 add verse 27? -
"Give thanks to the Lord, who torments billions for eternity, whose mercy endures forever" ????

Tell me, what brought you to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior?

For me, the answer is no. I tend to be a universalist. FYI: Hell is actually a holding cell until Judgment Day. After that it is the Lake of Fire.
 

07-07-07

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This adulterous generation has tried to either take the flame out of hell or do away with it all together. But Jesus said:

Luke 9
26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.
 

JesusLovesYou

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Yes or No?

Matthew 5:37 Let your Yea, be Yea, and your Nay be Nay, everything else is evil.

Should Psalm 136 add verse 27? -
"Give thanks to the Lord, who torments billions for eternity, whose mercy endures forever" ????

Psalm
136
O give thanks unto the Lord; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever.

2 O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever.

3 O give thanks to the Lord of lords: for his mercy endureth for ever.

4 To him who alone doeth great wonders: for his mercy endureth for ever.

5 To him that by wisdom made the heavens: for his mercy endureth for ever.

6 To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy endureth for ever.

7 To him that made great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever:

8 The sun to rule by day: for his mercy endureth for ever:

9 The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever.

10 To him that smote Egypt in their firstborn: for his mercy endureth for ever:

11 And brought out Israel from among them: for his mercy endureth for ever:

12 With a strong hand, and with a stretched out arm: for his mercy endureth for ever.

13 To him which divided the Red sea into parts: for his mercy endureth for ever:

14 And made Israel to pass through the midst of it: for his mercy endureth for ever:

15 But overthrew Pharaoh and his host in the Red sea: for his mercy endureth for ever.

16 To him which led his people through the wilderness: for his mercy endureth for ever.

17 To him which smote great kings: for his mercy endureth for ever:

18 And slew famous kings: for his mercy endureth for ever:

19 Sihon king of the Amorites: for his mercy endureth for ever:

20 And Og the king of Bashan: for his mercy endureth for ever:

21 And gave their land for an heritage: for his mercy endureth for ever:

22 Even an heritage unto Israel his servant: for his mercy endureth for ever.

23 Who remembered us in our low estate: for his mercy endureth for ever:

24 And hath redeemed us from our enemies: for his mercy endureth for ever.

25 Who giveth food to all flesh: for his mercy endureth for ever.

26 O give thanks unto the God of heaven: for his mercy endureth for ever.


High Premise,

I have read your thread since it was stated on Sunday, and I was just wondering: Did you change your first name from Wrong to High, or is Wrong your middle name by any chance?

First of all, this psalm was written by someone who had real experiences with God just like all of us have real experiences with other people we love and are marked by them, and then we praise those people and tell them how much they mean to us. If more people would take their relationship with God seriously—and I am referring here even to Christians who claim that they have been professing their faith for tens of years—things would be totally different. I am saying “take their relationship with God seriously” because all Christians say that they believe, but when the test comes, they act like everyone else who does not believe. When everyone who sings about God’s love will trust God’s leading knowing that He loves them, the world will be changed not one at a time, but thousands at a time.

Second, everyone has learned to blame God for the consequences of their own mistakes and expects to see things get better as a result. Just consider a very ridiculous example: someone puts his hand on a hot stove knowing that food was cooked just recently, and then asks “Why didn’t you tell me the stove was hot?” It is pretty much the same way it works in the relationship with God. People know from experience—whether their own or others’—that it is never a good idea to go against the laws God set with regard to any aspect of life, and yet they choose to continue to live that way, apart from Him. (And if you look just out of curiosity in the Bible, it addresses all the issues of life. Many of the principles stated in the Bible apply to various aspects of life. Just research any topic you want instead of asking pointless questions— research even why do people go to hell, because saying that God sends them has always been wrong—and you’ll see the fallacies you’re dealing with. There is no evil in God and He cannot be tempted by evil; therefore, people are responsible for what they do. They have the free will to obey or disobey Him, and each of these alternative comes with their own choices. One thing I would like to mention here, though, if one starts disobeying God and persists in this attitude, once he or she decides to turn around may seem difficult, but not impossible. I mean, if one learned to live in disobedience toward God and got used to blaming him for everything that was going wrong because of that, it will be hard to turn around, and it will seem as if things are going wrong all over again, when in fact things are starting to normalize. The main issue is to stop blaming God for all the wrongs in your life and start taking some responsibility for it. When this starts to happen and you will act upon the consequences that come out of it, you will be able to say like the writer of this psalm:”...His love endures forever...”
 

Truther

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agreed, but hence this is our GREAT COMMISSION, to render its increase space useless. Isaiah 14:9 "Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations."
and the kings of the nations are us christians. so lets tell the truth and rent no space to no man.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
Amen brother. Tell all to obey Acts 2:38!
 

Ronald David Bruno

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Yes or No?

Matthew 5:37 Let your Yea, be Yea, and your Nay be Nay, everything else is evil.

Should Psalm 136 add verse 27? -
"Give thanks to the Lord, who torments billions for eternity, whose mercy endures forever" ????

Psalm
136
O give thanks unto the Lord; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever.

2 O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever.

3 O give thanks to the Lord of lords: for his mercy endureth for ever.

4 To him who alone doeth great wonders: for his mercy endureth for ever.

5 To him that by wisdom made the heavens: for his mercy endureth for ever.

6 To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy endureth for ever.

7 To him that made great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever:

8 The sun to rule by day: for his mercy endureth for ever:

9 The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever.

10 To him that smote Egypt in their firstborn: for his mercy endureth for ever:

11 And brought out Israel from among them: for his mercy endureth for ever:

12 With a strong hand, and with a stretched out arm: for his mercy endureth for ever.

13 To him which divided the Red sea into parts: for his mercy endureth for ever:

14 And made Israel to pass through the midst of it: for his mercy endureth for ever:

15 But overthrew Pharaoh and his host in the Red sea: for his mercy endureth for ever.

16 To him which led his people through the wilderness: for his mercy endureth for ever.

17 To him which smote great kings: for his mercy endureth for ever:

18 And slew famous kings: for his mercy endureth for ever:

19 Sihon king of the Amorites: for his mercy endureth for ever:

20 And Og the king of Bashan: for his mercy endureth for ever:

21 And gave their land for an heritage: for his mercy endureth for ever:

22 Even an heritage unto Israel his servant: for his mercy endureth for ever.

23 Who remembered us in our low estate: for his mercy endureth for ever:

24 And hath redeemed us from our enemies: for his mercy endureth for ever.

25 Who giveth food to all flesh: for his mercy endureth for ever.

26 O give thanks unto the God of heaven: for his mercy endureth for ever.

I personally believe that all former things will pass away as it says at the end of the Bible. This means the physical universe is temporal. God will create a New Heaven and New Earth.
It also states that Death and Hades will be cast into the Lake of Fire (Hell) and destroyed.
It is essential at this point to do a word study. The Word "aionios" has variable meanings. When it is applied to the temporal realm, it should be translated as ages, lifetimes, generations, epochs, periods of time that will pass away.
When aionios is applied to God, His spiritual domain and our salvation, then it should be translated as eternity, eternal. Even the word ever should be translated as age and therefore, everlasting should be age-lasting or age-during.
So now go back and read any passages and you will see it differently.
Matthew 25:46 should be treated no differently. Insert "age-lasting or age-during punishment/destruction and eternal life.
Now let's look at another word, kolasis, punishment which in this case refers to "cutting-off", "perishish", "destruction". These words have been used throughout the Bible. You can't have an indestructible destruction or imperishable perishing, or a cutting-off while it is still connected - those are contradictions! Destruction means to put an end to. If you throw a piece of paper in the fire, it burns up completely and that's it. It can't burn forever. Likewise, a physical body, whether alive or not is incinerated in minutes - like Gollum who fell into the Lava Lake.
Now there are different views of Hell. We get an idea If it from the Gahanna, a perpetual burning dump outside of Jerusalem. "The worm never dies there" because it survives on the perimeter, eating at the dead corpses that arent directly in the fire but you get the picture, a smoldering dump. I think of it as a physical lake of fire, much more intense and not perpetual, a final event at judgment day, the earth being burned up as described in 2 Peter 3:10. Some think of it as a spiritual place. So what exactly is a spiritual fire ... a fire that doesn't actually destroy ... just short of destroying but enough to sustain pain forever? How would that glorify or please God in any way? How could that be considered justice? Some people live a short life of sin and then what - get eternal punishment? Even 80 years of sinning does not warrant eternal punishment. God has given us examples of His justice throughout the Bible. It was always fair, just, for a period of time and proportionate to the sins committed. Certainly Hitler would be judged more severely, but it would come to an end.
God is merciful ... Even in His punishment.
Besides all that, what is death? Physical death, we all know. Spiritual death is separation from God.
"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." 1 Cor. 15:26
So both physical and spiritual death will come to an end. If there will be no more separation from God, those souls will not exist.
Of course this will bump up against the traditional view of Hell - so be it.
 

Base12

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Yes or No?

No.

The Title is false. And not for the fact that Hell is emptied out, which makes the title a moot point anyhow.

I have always said that Universalists are closer to the Truth than most Christians. You are almost there.

Too bad you had to have such a chip on your shoulder OP. This could have been a very Illuminating thread.
 

Base12

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Matthew 25:46 makes it clear that if "eternal punishment" comes to an end, so does "eternal life."

Let us take a look at the verse...

Matthew 25:46
"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."


The first thing we should understand are the words 'go away into'. This teaches us that, in the context of the verse, Everlasting Punishment and Life Eternal are DESTINATIONS and not 'states of being'.
  • Life Eternal is a LOCATION that is 'enter into'.
  • Everlasting Punishment is also a location that is enter into.
Long story short, Life Eternal is the New Heaven and New Earth. That is the destination and location.

Conversely...

Everlasting Punishment is THIS Heaven and THIS Earth. Yes, that is what this Universe is. That is the meaning of life... to be corrected.

We are here to be corrected for an age (lifespan).

The Lake of Fire is merely a portal that leads back HERE. Yes, refinement... in a new body.

As I said, you Universalists are almost there. You just need to connect that final dot.