Tis Is The Season!!!

jburic said:
We should Always celebrate His birth, not just on one specific day

Of course! Christmas is not the only day I stop and think of my Lord! I do that everyday! But consider...I have kids, love them heaps! Every single day I am glad that they are here...but as a family we choose one day, the day of their birth, to celebrate it! Now sure, the Bible doesn't tell us when Jesus was born, so as a society we have picked a date to celebrate it. Gathering together with a family I love to celebrate the saviour I love. How can that be bad??

Ecc said
If you are going to serve God then why not observe HIS feast days..the ones with real meaning! The ones He gave us on the day He set forth;
Passover, Unleaven bread, Pentecost, Day of Atonement, Blowing of the trumpets, Feast of Tabernacles
But instead you would rather attempt to serve God on the same day as pagans, using the same items as pagans once did!

Once again you keep trying to smoosh today's church together with the OT Jews. Which we are not. Read the verse and commentary below:

[3] But even Titus, who was with me, was not forced to be circumcised, though he was a Greek.
(Galatians 2:3 ESV)

"There is agreement: Titus—and so by implication all Gentiles—does not need to be circumcised. Or at least Paul, James, Peter, and John agree on this. There is, however, a group of false brothers who continue to disagree. Paul regards the imposition of circumcision on Gentile Christians as a slavery producing betrayal of the freedom Christ has given. The presence of these “false brothers” within the church in Galatia shows that churches will sometimes have unbelievers in their midst who seek to harm the church."

Now we know that the authors of the NT often refer to circumcision when talking about all the Jewish customs. Circumcision was one of the first covenant requirements God set down with Abraham, before Moses, before the 10 commandments, before the Law.
We see through Paul and the NT that as gentiles (I am not a Jew, so that makes me a gentile) we are free to have our own society, our own customs...as long as they walk with Christ.
So basically, if I want to have Christmas, I can...as long as I spend that day remembering Christ...and not burning something out back to whatever pagan god you imagine I'm also worshiping.

I know we've been over this again and again, but if we had to continue following all the old laws:

[21] I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
(Galatians 2:21 ESV)

Jesus did die for a purpose, and I am now free to celebrate Christmas if I so choose.

Ecc said:
But instead you have joined, adapted and conformed!!

No...I help redeem it. As Christians we still have to move through this world. Not be of this world, but still in it. What could be better than running from something misguided people do? Redeem it! Take it, tell them of who we should be celebrating, worshiping. By making my Christmas only about Jesus, I help show others what Christmas should be about.

Ecc said:
If the pagans hold their worship to their god in the winter, why not honor the true and living God's birth in the summer?

I live in Australia....my Christmas is in Summer.

Ecc said:
If the pagans bring cut trees, bring them into the house and decorate with silver and gold, why not do the opposite; start a garden and trim with blue and yellow?
If the pagans use holly, mistle-toe, wreaths and yule-logs, why not do just the opposite?

I don't do any of these things. We do give presents, but I explain to my children every year that when Jesus came to earth, when He was born to us, He was giving the best present of all. Our present giving is a sign of our love and affection for each other, and in it we remember the love of our Saviour.

You say that we are stirring danger by worshiping our Lord by using the trappings of pagan religion. But think about it. Is there anything that one pagan or another has not used to worship their idols? Sun, moon, wood, rocks, gold, animals. Anything can be turned into an idol, and this world has had many years with many pagan.
So what? Do we completely ignore Gods own creation? No...He made it good, and He made it for us. And if fallen man has sinned and used Gods creation in a way that doesn't glorify Him...we take it back and use it to worship Him, to praise Him, to glorify Him, to celebrate Him!
Honestly...your reasoning is a bit faulty. Worship buildings...pagans have them. Food used in pagan worship...whoops, that means we shouldn't eat, or thank God for our food. Perhaps we should become vegans...oh wait, the 'save the planet' cause has become almost pagan too. We're doomed.

Honestly, if this were a 'don't get sucked into Idolatry' "lesson", I could get behind it. But sometimes Ecc, your fierce need to observe the rules seems a bit idolatrous in itself. You jump up and down about the old laws, when you should jump up and down about Jesus.

Sure, but He is also the same one who declared a New Covenant.

TexUs said:

But if you truly practiced what you preached, since these are not celebrations commanded by Christ, you shouldn't follow them. Most of what I mentioned are also rooted in pagan traditions and you still follow them. (including your own birthday).
And yet now you make an exception.
Hypocritical Theory 101.

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Birthdays, anniversaries, and 4th of July have almost NOTHING to do with CHRIST! Do you think God would put something about birthdays, anniversaries ect. in the BIBLE!
On Christmas(and Easter) you have to think " this holiday is supposed to be about Christ, I need to think if this is the right thing to do."
" If CHRIST didn't celebrate it or say anything about it, and neither did the disciples, WHY SHOULD I?????"

Rach said:

Of course! Christmas is not the only day I stop and think of my Lord! I do that everyday! But consider...I have kids, love them heaps! Every single day I am glad that they are here...but as a family we choose one day, the day of their birth, to celebrate it! Now sure, the Bible doesn't tell us when Jesus was born, so as a society we have picked a date to celebrate it. Gathering together with a family I love to celebrate the saviour I love. How can that be bad??
[quote/]







Why not celebrate your own made up holiday, instead of a holiday that is supposed to be about CHRIST, but you don't even know if that is what HE wants you to do!

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it says in my bible the Christ did not take away one jot or tiddle from the law. the law is still here its just that the law is not unto death. its unto life in Christ who laid down his life. before it was about sacrifice an obedience.(death) its the same law. only now it about life and rebirth. the law still stands firm.

just clarifying for De profundis. he seemed a little confused with his statement.

Ecc said:
"Who do you think it was that gave us all of those 'old laws' in the first place?
It was your Lord and saviour!
The very one that died for you is in fact the same that gave the laws!"

Yes but when Christ came he brought the New Covenant with Him.

[3] But even Titus, who was with me, was not forced to be circumcised, though he was a Greek. [4] Yet because of false brothers secretly brought in—who slipped in to spy out our freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, so that they might bring us into slavery— [5] to them we did not yield in submission even for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you.
(Galatians 2:3-5 ESV)

Part of our freedom in Christ is to continue on in our culture....Titus was allowed to continue in his, he was not expected to conform to Jewish laws.

[21] I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
(Galatians 2:21 ESV)

[The Righteous Shall Live by Faith]
[10] For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” [11] Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” [12] But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” [13] Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— [14] so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
(Galatians 3:10-14 ESV)

[24] So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. [25] But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,
(Galatians 3:24-25 ESV)

[Christ Has Set Us Free]
[5:1] For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.
(Galatians 5:1 ESV)

When Paul talks of slavery here, it is in reference the previous chapter,4:21-31 where Paul continues to emphasize the chasm between being a free child of God and being a slave to the law, sin, and false gods

[6] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.
(Galatians 5:6 ESV)

Again we see Paul referring to circumcision as a symbol of the Old covenant. The New covenant in Jesus Christ is about love...love of God, and love of others.

jburic said:
"Why not celebrate your own made up holiday, instead of a holiday that is supposed to be about CHRIST, but you don't even know if that is what HE wants you to do! "

In light of the above freedom, I can celebrate on any day I want. So why wouldn't I choose to do so on a day that I know all my family will have the day off work? As far as what Jesus wants me to do...He wants me to love Him, wants me to Glorify Him and praise Him. No where does He lay down rules about the how or when of celebrating His birth. That means any rules or objections are earth made....a bit like the Pharisee's don't you think, and Jesus made it very clear about what he thought about people 'adding' their own little rules to Gods.

jburic09032 said:

Birthdays, anniversaries, and 4th of July have almost NOTHING to do with CHRIST! Do you think God would put something about birthdays, anniversaries ect. in the BIBLE!

If CHRIST didn't celebrate it or say anything about it, and neither did the disciples, WHY SHOULD I?????"

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I smiled as I read this because of the huge contradiction, you're helping prove my argument.
The argument was that Christ didn't tell us to celebrate, so we shouldn't.

Christ doesn't tell you to celebrate these things (You just admitted it), and yet you do.

Do you realize the origin of birthdays, that you celebrate? It's entirely pagan as well... People believed they were subjected by evil spirits that could more easily influence them in "transitional" periods of life (IE, growing a year older), and so threw celebrations in order to keep the spirits away.

If we apply your logic to other celebrations you celebrate, your own logic should tell you not to celebrate them. But we don't see this. We see a hypocrite.

rach i think you are a little confused. Christ brought a new covenant. not a new law.he did do away with all the old ceremonial law. we are not to force the law on people as requirement of salvation(sacrifice)(death). we still need to obey the law but the desire comes from our own hearts now. circumcision was part of ceremonial law. when someone says something about the Law. that means the ten commandments. there are 2 laws. if you dont specify between the 2 you will only get confusion. nothing has changed about the ten commandments. we still need to abide by them.but we should want to do them not feel obligated. they are Gods guideline to whats wrong an right. basicly the Old testament people did the law because that was what you were required to do. to follow God. now we still have to obey those laws but it not because thats what the bible says but its because thats what pleases God.

Lute said:

rach i think you are a little confused. Christ brought a new covenant. not a new law.he did do away with all the old ceremonial law. we are not to force the law on people as requirement of salvation(sacrifice)(death). we still need to obey the law but the desire comes from our own hearts now. circumcision was part of ceremonial law. when someone says something about the Law. that means the ten commandments. there are 2 laws. if you dont specify between the 2 you will only get confusion. nothing has changed about the ten commandments. we still need to abide by them.but we should want to do them not feel obligated. they are Gods guideline to whats wrong an right. basicly the Old testament people did the law because that was what you were required to do. to follow God. now we still have to obey those laws but it not because thats what the bible says but its because thats what pleases God.

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Hey Lute, I'm not confused, but I feel that there has been perhaps a communication blunder!
I don't disagree with what you've said. The basic 10 commandments being now written on our hearts, I'd agree. It comes down to maturity in Christ, the Christian walk. If a person has truly been regenerated then yes, we see a desire to follow and love only one God and do away with any and all Idols.
But the topic of the post is whether Christmas is a pagan festival and by celebrating on that day, do Christians dip their toes into that 'pagan pond'. Jesus is clear about smooshing Christianity together with pagan rituals...it's wrong. But my point is that most Christians do not celebrate anything pagan on Christmas day. In fact for us the day is entirely a celebration of our Lord and Saviour...there is nothing pagan about it, despite what day it may fall on.
What I was trying to say in my previous post was that Jesus has given us a wonderful freedom in His new covenant, from rules and certain restraints...and that includes those that people are trying to place upon us.

[Do All to the Glory of God]
[23] “All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up. [24] Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor. [25] Eat whatever is sold in the meat market without raising any question on the ground of conscience. [26] For “the earth is the Lord's, and the fullness thereof.” [27] If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience. [28] But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for the sake of conscience— [29] I do not mean your conscience, but his. For why should my liberty be determined by someone else's conscience? [30] If I partake with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of that for which I give thanks?
[31] So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
(1 Corinthians 10:23-31 ESV)

As long as I celebrate Jesus and only Jesus on Christmas, there is no evil or pagan element to my worship.
And as another point, as Christians, why on earth should be give ground to pagans? How many pagan festivals do you suppose there is or was, or will be? People who oppose Christianity do so will a surprising rage....if they felt it was so very easy to stop us from celebrating and worshiping our God, don't you think they would happily make many more days, just to try and halt our faith? So other people want to take a world wide day off? They can celebrate what they want, be it holly and mistletoe, or commercialism....as Christians we should take this day, a day given to us by governments to stand up and celebrate Jesus.
Honestly, should we run in fear of pagans? So they celebrate winter solstice...we should stand up and say, 'hey...you know God made the seasons?'
They wanna worship the planet, we should say 'God made the earth!'
Christmas can only be a pagan day if we let it be.

TexUs said:

I smiled as I read this because of the huge contradiction, you're helping prove my argument.
The argument was that Christ didn't tell us to celebrate, so we shouldn't.

Christ doesn't tell you to celebrate these things (You just admitted it), and yet you do.

Do you realize the origin of birthdays, that you celebrate? It's entirely pagan as well... People believed they were subjected by evil spirits that could more easily influence them in "transitional" periods of life (IE, growing a year older), and so threw celebrations in order to keep the spirits away.

If we apply your logic to other celebrations you celebrate, your own logic should tell you not to celebrate them. But we don't see this. We see a hypocrite.

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Like I said in my post, I DON'T THINK GOD WOULD PUT SOMETHING ABOUT BIRTHDAYS in the BIBLE!
I DO think he would put something in there about CHRISTMAS and EASTER if he wanted us to CELEBRATE them!
Even if Birthdays were practiced by pagans, THEY HAVE ALMOST NOTING TO DO WITH GOD!
They don't matter as much!
I celebrate them because the BIRTHDAYS! Not something that is SUPPOSED to be IMPORTANT LIKE CHRISTMAS AND EASTER!
WE have to think before we CELEBRATE something SUPPOSED to be IMPORTANT!
Is this what the Disciples would do?
WHY didn't it say something in the bible about it?


Maybe you should read my posts longer and try to understand them!


Do you get it this time?

jburic, all you are gonna get is the finger pointed back at you. all it is is justification & blame shifting. that's all you will get. when people like what they are doing an dont want change. they can become very fearful. and will do anything to justify an make themselves feel at ease about something. you arent going to get any real debate out of him. thats why i just stopped replying to his nonsensical ramblings. when people act like that i am very suspect.


and just to clarrify easter is not a christian holiday. that does have direct pagan roots an is still celebrated today as a pagan holiday. it is a pagan holiday worshipping sex an reproductions. its gross that the word easter is even assosiated with God the father ,Son or Holy Spirit in any way. we definitly need to celebrate an worship him for his death on the cross. but i fear God enough not to call that time in history "easter". thats just sick.

jburic09032 said:

They don't matter as much!

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According to whom?

Seems the Bible doesn't directly support Easter, Christmas, or Birthdays, so it seems to me they're on equal footing from a Biblical standpoint so once more I ask you, where do you base this belief on?

jburic09032 said:

Is this what the Disciples would do?

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Actually, no... The Jews never celebrated birthdays because of its pagan rooting.

Once more, you are incredibly hypocritical in your argument.

assosiating anything with easter other than what easter originally was is completely wrong. another holiday like Christmas that has been totally warped into an abomination. i personally dont like being any part of or even close to looking like an abomination. the main reason why i dont have a tree and never will. and do not use the word easter in reference to our saviors resurrection. that is just silly. what does the god of fertility have to do with God almighty?? nothing...and thats the point. i will have nothing to do with a catholic abomination. i pray to God that the people that observe all this crap in ignorance are not judged eternally for it. but i will not even take that chance.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter

Tis the season, for sure.

Jeremiah 10:2-5 (KJV)
[sup]2 [/sup]Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. [sup]3 [/sup]For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. [sup]4 [/sup]They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. [sup]5 [/sup]They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

amen duckybill, i got banned for bringing this up in another Christian site... <.<