We must repent of sin.

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Ronald Nolette

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Paul makes it clear that his purpose is to get the believers in Corinth to repent of sins that they have committed in 2 Corinthians 12:20-21...

2Co 12:20, For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults:
2Co 12:21, And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

Clearly, his goal is for the Corinthian believers to repent of "uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness" and he hopes that they will do that before he arrives among them in his third visit to them.

It should be clear that "uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness" are sins...

I find it interesting that Paul mentions that those who had not repented of these sins would engage with Paul in
debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, swellings, whisperings, and tumults.

This is what I see among those who have not repented of their sins and who want to engage in debates about how repentance isn't really necessary....while in those debates they most often resort to ad hominem attacks on the person who is bringing to them the truth of holy scripture....saying that we are preaching a FALSE and PERVERTED gospel when in all reality our gospel is
true and wholesome, while their gospel of "grace as a license for immorality" is truly a gospel that is FALSE and PERVERTED.


HI just by faith.

You have put the cart before the horse in explaining these verses.

Paul did not say that those who have not repented of those sins would automatically get involved in debates, envyings..... The "and" is added in the English (why is unknown) but does not appear in the Greek. if it did, it would tie 21 to 20 but because there is no "kai" conjunction in the original, verse 21 starts a new thought in all probability.

Repentance is required! But what one means by repentance is in question.

Repentance in the Greek is meta-noia which means a change of mind. To repent means to change ones mind and agree with god that XXXX is sin as God says. Then 1 JOhn 1:9 comes into play.

And yes a change of mind also means a change of action, but the change of action is not biblical repentance but the consequence of biblical repentance, f one is serious.
 
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marks

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I have offered the scripture in question as a remedy for being wise in your own eyes; but if you don't want to receive it that is on you. Be wise in your own eyes if you so desire. I would only warn you with the following scripture.

Wise in my own eyes? Where is THAT coming from??

The point is that Solomon considered himself to be as wise as the fool.

No he didn't. God gave him wisdom. He says he was more wise than the rest. He demonstated that wisdom to the people.

Ecclesiastes 12:8-10 KJV
8) Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.
9) And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs.
10) The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth.

I don't see any reason to question the wisdom of Solomon.

Much love!
 

justbyfaith

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You do realize that when we read Perfect here, it's complete,

If that is the case, then the reverse is also true; and when we read the word "complete" it means "perfect"...

Col 2:10, And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

You are saying that while Paul was not transformed physically into an incorruptible body, the Galatian Christians, whom Paul said were "fallen from grace", were?

Paul said they had received the adoption of sons and then said "ye are sons".

The adoption is defined as the redemption of the body in Romans 8:23.

Wise in my own eyes? Where is THAT coming from??

Look back at just before the beginning of this conversation and maybe you will see where that is coming from. We must repent of sin.

The point is that Solomon considered himself to be as wise as the fool.

No he didn't. God gave him wisdom. He says he was more wise than the rest. He demonstated that wisdom to the people.

So, you're saying that Solomon was wise in his own eyes and therefore there was more hope for a fool than for him.

In all reality, in Ecclesiastes 2:15, Solomon asks the question of "why am I more wise than the fool, since the same event happens to both of us?" It is rhetorical; and the answer is that death levels the playing field, so that from Solomon's perspective, he is not more wise than the fool. He is not wise in his own eyes.
 
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marks

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If that is the case, then the reverse is also true; and when we read the word "complete" it means "perfect"...

Col 2:10, And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:



Paul said they had received the adoption of sons and then said "ye are sons".

The adoption is defined as the redemption of the body in Romans 8:23.



Look back at just before the beginning of this conversation and maybe you will see where that is coming from. We must repent of sin.





So, you're saying that Solomon was wise in his own eyes and therefore there was more hope for a fool than for him.

In all reality, in Ecclesiastes 2:15, Solomon asks the question of "why am I more wise than the fool, since the same event happens to both of us?" It is rhetorical; and the answer is that death levels the playing field, so that from Solomon's perspective, he is not more wise than the fool. He is not wise in his own eyes.
Good luck with all that!

:)

Much love!
 

BloodBought 1953

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Now you are driving me to boast in a form of self-defense, as was the case with Paul in 2 Corinthians 11...

I will say that my Bible reading for at least ten years now has been that I have read through all of the epistles once per week (that would be 520 times in the past ten years), the gospels, Acts and Revelation about once per month (120 times in the past ten years), all of Psalms twice per month (240 times in ten years), all of Proverbs twice per month (240 times in ten years); and the rest of the Bible at a generally slower rate.

And I have also been reading my Bible for over 40 years, if you count the years that I read it before I was redeemed...I have been redeemed since the end of 1989.




If you read the entire Bible 50 times a day , it means Nothing unless you Understand it....that takes the help Of the Holy Spirit.....which you lack....
I can say with certainty that your Perverted Addition to the Gospel which has come to be known as “ Lucky Repentance” did NOT come from the Holy Spirit....
You have enough insight to get Saved, perhaps , but you just can’t muster up the Faith to get off the Bottle .....you have fallen from Grace, you don’t even see it and your False Teachings are shipwrecking the Faith Of others......You are in Big Jeopardy.....your stubborn years of self- study and the Pride that forbids you to listen to those that understand the Bible better than you, have left you with a brain full of Religious “ Mush”.....I pray that God will protect Newbies from your false teachings....
 

BloodBought 1953

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We must repent of sin.

The only thing that we MUST do is to do the Will Of The Father....and what would “ that” be? If your response was “ Believe in the One that He sent”.......go to the head of the class....
If you have “ changed your mind about Jesus”..... If you Believe that He is the Risen Lord, whereas before you did NOT Believe that ....You have undergone the only Repentance that you need to undergo to get Saved.....
To “ repent of sin” is a good thing .....you will do it naturally and just about daily once you get Saved...
You can Repent of your sins until the cows come home , but if you have not heard and believed the Gospel, you haven’t been saved .....your “Repentance” May have made you more “moral”, but God ain’t Looking for “ moral” men —- Hell will be full of those types !
God is looking for men with Contrite Hearts.....Those who realize that their “ morality” is Filthy Rags Before God ....Those That know that they are, in reality, “ Dead in Trespasses and Sins”.....Those That are ready to Truly Repent like the Sinful Tax-Collector did.....those that have finally come to the end of themselves and are reduced to crying out to God—- “Lord, have mercy on me a Sinner”......that is the picture of the True Repentance that God is looking for......
One can “ repent of their sins “ all of their lives.....if that gets in the way of doing what that Sinful Publican did......he has just wasted his time as far as Salvation goes.....
True Repentance does NOT mean Turning FROM sins.....it means Turning TO God.....as in, “ Turn to Me and I will Turn to you”. Salvation is THAT simple......( the repenting of Sins in the manner that “you” mean will follow....you MUST get the order correct! ) God Bless ....
 

BloodBought 1953

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Luck isn't even an issue.

Whaaaaattttt??....... sure “ luck” is an issue! Are you forgetting “ LUCKy Repentance?”.......Turns out that “ Luck” trump’s Everything else in existence....you probably just forgot to mention it....that’s OK, we forgive you.....
 

justbyfaith

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If you read the entire Bible 50 times a day , it means Nothing unless you Understand it....that takes the help Of the Holy Spirit.....which you lack....

That is your judgment...and you have three fingers pointing back at you (Matthew 7:1-5, Luke 6:41-42). And because you lack the Holy Spirit, you continue to fight against the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ...

I can say with certainty that your Perverted Addition to the Gospel which has come to be known as “ Lucky Repentance” did NOT come from the Holy Spirit...

Again, because you lack the Holy Spirit, you fight against the truth of the gospel and would seek to prevent sincere seekers of the truth from doing what it takes to be saved...which is to repent of sin and to avail themselves of Christ as the remedy for sin.

The only thing that we MUST do is to do the Will Of The Father....and what would “ that” be?

1Th 4:3, For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
1Th 4:4, That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
1Th 4:5, Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:

1Th 5:18, In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.


Jhn 6:39, And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

The final scripture in this list is not something that we can do but it is entirely dependent upon Him.

God is looking for men with Contrite Hearts.....Those who realize that their “ morality” is Filthy Rags Before God ...

From your perspective, those who accept that their morality is filthy rags and don't do anything to change that.

...Those That know that they are, in reality, “ Dead in Trespasses and Sins”...

Those who have been redeemed "were" dead in trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2:1).

...Those That are ready to Truly Repent like the Sinful Tax-Collector did.....those that have finally come to the end of themselves and are reduced to crying out to God—- “Lord, have mercy on me a Sinner”......that is the picture of the True Repentance that God is looking for...

Yes indeed...and the tax collector was discontented with a lifestyle of sinning...so you can be sure that when he got up from his prayer, he had turned away from walking in the direction of sin.

True Repentance does NOT mean Turning FROM sins...

False teaching.

...it means Turning TO God..

God is holy....so turning to God means turning towards holiness; which means turning away from sin.

Luck isn't even an issue.

Whaaaaattttt??....... sure “ luck” is an issue! Are you forgetting “ LUCKy Repentance?”.......Turns out that “ Luck” trump’s Everything else in existence....you probably just forgot to mention it....that’s OK, we forgive you.....

Obviously, time and chance are a factor in whether you will be wheat or tares (Ecclesiastes 9:11, 1 Corinthians 15:37, Matthew 13:30).
 
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ChristisGod

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Think what you want to think.

I find when I read my Bible that the Galatians had already received the adoption as sons (Galatians 4:5-7) and that the adoption is defined as the redemption of the body (Romans 8:23).

Therefore, it is possible to have the redemption of the body in this life.
Just as there is a past, present and future aspect to our salvation so to is there a past, present and future aspect to our adoption as sons. The future aspect being the redemption of our bodies in the Resurrection when we become immortal and incorruptible.

hope this helps !!!
 

justbyfaith

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Just as there is a past, present and future aspect to our salvation so to is there a past, present and future aspect to our adoption as sons. The future aspect being the redemption of our bodies in the Resurrection when we become immortal and incorruptible.

hope this helps !!!
Chapter and verse?

In Romans 8:23, the adoption is defined as the redemption of our bodies.
 

ChristisGod

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Chapter and verse?

In Romans 8:23, the adoption is defined as the redemption of our bodies.
and its FUTURE.

Romans 8
We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

2 Corinthians 5:2-4
For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house( BODY) which is from heaven

See also 1 Corinthians 15 where our Resurrection bodies are still in the future.
 

BloodBought 1953

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From your perspective, those who accept that their morality is filthy rags and don't do anything to change that.



When you say that you have three fingers pointed back at yourself , or some such other cliche you trot out every third post or so.....yawn.....


Tell ya what......”You” Turn from your sins, using will- power, fear, guilt or whatever you think “works” for you, and “I” will Turn to God as a Lost Sinner and simply ask for His Mercy and Grace.....down the road, who do you think will end up with the results that matter the most to God ?
While you are wasting your time trying to beat that “ Old Man” into submission, God will be changing “me” from the inside out—- working on the faults that “ HE” deems as important that may not even be visible to Self-Righteous Fruit Inspectors like yourself...
Some Fruits of the Spirit ( MOST of them, as a matter of fact ) like peace, Joy , long-suffering , etc are gifts that only God can bestow via His Transforming Work In one’s Heart .....not clearly visable to on- lookers at first.....
Do your darnedest to “ Change” ....you can do that .....I will have the FAITH to Trust God to TRANSFORM......THAT is what God wants to do and only HE can do it......
As I say, give it time..... “ The proof is in the Pudding”.....
 

justbyfaith

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and its FUTURE.

Romans 8
We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

2 Corinthians 5:2-4
For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house( BODY) which is from heaven

See also 1 Corinthians 15 where our Resurrection bodies are still in the future.

Compare...

Rom 8:23, And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Rom 8:24, For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Rom 8:25, But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Heb 11:1, Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Therefore we have the substance and the evidence of what is hoped for and not seen; even the redemption of the body.
 

justbyfaith

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Tell ya what......”You” Turn from your sins, using will- power, fear, guilt or whatever you think “works” for you, and “I” will Turn to God as a Lost Sinner and simply ask for His Mercy and Grace.....down the road, who do you think will end up with the results that matter the most to God ?
The one who turned away from his sins, trusting Christ to be the remedy for them.
 

justbyfaith

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When you say that you have three fingers pointed back at yourself , or some such other cliche you trot out every third post or so.....yawn.....

As cliche as it may sound...

it applies as a principle towards those who judge according to the flesh.

While you are wasting your time trying to beat that “ Old Man” into submission, God will be changing “me” from the inside out—- working on the faults that “ HE” deems as important that may not even be visible to Self-Righteous Fruit Inspectors like yourself...

Of course, this is what holy scripture says on the matter.

Rom 8:12, Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13, For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14, For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.


Do your darnedest to “ Change” ....you can do that .....I will have the FAITH to Trust God to TRANSFORM......THAT is what God wants to do and only HE can do it......
As I say, give it time..... “ The proof is in the Pudding”.....

Of course God is the One who enacts the change...when we surrender our wills to the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

That is what repentance is.

It does not mean that I am going to "try to do better" in my own strength, or in the power of the flesh.

It means I am submitted to the process of the Lord making me better as I get sanctified by the Holy Spirit and belief of the truth.
 

justbyfaith

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Eze 33:11, Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Eze 33:12, Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
Eze 33:13, When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
Eze 33:14, Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
Eze 33:15, If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Eze 33:16, None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.
Eze 33:17, Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal.
Eze 33:18, When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.
*** Eze 33:19, But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.
Eze 33:20, Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. O ye house of Israel, I will judge you every one after his ways.

What I have above in blue is scripture that tells us that if we repent of our wicked ways we will live because of it.

Above, in
green, is scripture that teaches that if you turn from righteousness, and do what is wicked and unjust, you will die because of it.

And above, in
purple, is scripture that tells of the reaction of the unregenerated heart to this information.
 
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justbyfaith

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In the above post, we find that the meaning of repentance is clearly spelled out.

Here is what Jesus said on the matter.

Luk 13:1, There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
Luk 13:2, And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
Luk 13:3, I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luk 13:4, Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
Luk 13:5, I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
 
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ChristisGod

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Compare...

Rom 8:23, And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Rom 8:24, For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Rom 8:25, But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Heb 11:1, Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Therefore we have the substance and the evidence of what is hoped for and not seen; even the redemption of the body.
Except the resurrection is still future.
 

justbyfaith

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Except the resurrection is still future.

The substance of and the evidence of the redemption of the body is now; or as soon as you can obtain the "second benefit" (2 Corinthians 1:15) being spoken of.
 
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