Yes.
But we should realize this. How can one call if he had not believed? How can one believe if he had not seen nor heard?
As Jesus said, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”
Tong
R2484
Biblical Salvation
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But we should realize this. How can one call if he had not believed? How can one believe if he had not seen nor heard?
As Jesus said, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”
Tong
R2484
This has nothing to do with Reformed Theology. It has to do with the scriptures I read and study.
How can one call on the name of the Lord if he had not believed? How can one believe if he had not seen nor heard? Jesus clearly said “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”
Now, what is made alive is that which is dead. But that which is dead cannot do anything. He cannot see not hear. So, for one to be able to call on the name of the Lord, he must first be made alive. For only then could he see and hear, and believe, and call on the name of the Lord.
Tong
R2485
A dead man is made alive by God. Only God can do that. The dead man cannot do anything. He cannot see nor hear, much less, believe nor repent.
Tong
R2486
to become "born again", requires "repentance and faith" FIRST.
Perhaps that is how you see it. But In my reading of scriptures, it is not. I have explained this briefly in my post #19.
Besides, what Jesus said there is clear, unless one is born again, he can not see the kingdom of God. Only when one is able to see the kingdom of God will repenting and believing unto God be possible.
Tong
R2489
I read what you say, and then I read Jesus and Peter, and they do not agree with you. In Mark 1:15, Jesus first words in this Gospel, are "repent and believe". In Luke 24:47, again Jesus, "repentance for the forgiveness of sins", to to preached. Peter, in his first message on the Day of Pentecost, "repent...for the forgiveness of sins" (2:37-38). In the next chapter, "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out" (19), showing that repentance for the forgiveness of sins is BEFORE a sinner can be saved. And then we also have Paul, in Acts 20:21, "Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ", and again. "but firstly to the ones in Damascus, and Jerusalem, and to all the region of Judea, and to the nations, I proclaimed the command to repent and to turn to God, practicing works worthy of repentance" (26:20).
A sinner is saved BEFORE repentance.
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. ~John 11:25
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. ~John 11:25
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Before?
just asking, question, how can one come to faith unless they repent (change their mind)
It should be clear that the Bible teaches that we do not enter into grace apart from faith first being instilled in us by the Lord.
Rom 5:1, Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2, By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
That instillation of faith, may, in itself, be the result of prevenient grace.
However, it should be clear in this passage, at least, that faith is the catalyst for entering into grace, and not the other way around.
Also, John 1:12.
Jhn 1:12, But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Notice it doesn't say, To as many as became the sons of God, the them he gave the power to receive him...
That would be the Calvinistic version....where a man is regenerated before he can even make a decision to believe in and follow Christ.
Rom 5:1, Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2, By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
That instillation of faith, may, in itself, be the result of prevenient grace.
However, it should be clear in this passage, at least, that faith is the catalyst for entering into grace, and not the other way around.
Also, John 1:12.
Jhn 1:12, But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Notice it doesn't say, To as many as became the sons of God, the them he gave the power to receive him...
That would be the Calvinistic version....where a man is regenerated before he can even make a decision to believe in and follow Christ.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Actually Jesus also said one must become poor in spirit the greek word their is broken, bankrupt, a beggar. One only comes to this point through repentance.
you are taking a verse out of its context, and ignoring the others like I have already given in #26. No sinner can be saved without first repenting of their sins.
Salvation is established at the time of conversion.... it's a one time event. I believe something supernatural occurs when a person chooses to become a Christian. We can't see it... and often times don't even feel it... but it is a SEAL from heaven.
Repentance is a natural occurring result of getting to know and love God. It is a result of our love and honour of God...of wanting to please God. It comes from submitting our lives to Him. If Salvation was conditional on repentance at the time of conversion... there would be many sins left omitted.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I think I am talking about more of being in the, wanting to be my own god, to submit to now one, to go from my natural state as God leads me to changing this mindset to that of acknowledging I am a sinner, I am bankrupt (poor in spirit) God is not who I thought he was, as my own God I have failed am failing and will always fail, and I need a redeemer, and only Christ can be that person
it’s called repentance to faith, unless one repents they will never come to faith in Christ, we have many who believe Christ, but they have not repented, so their faith is dead or mere belief, which has no power to save.
I hope this makes sense
A sinner is saved at the time of their conversion. Repenting of sins may be part of that process but is not conditional of salvation. The two are separate issues. Salvation is a supernatural event that occurs... repentance is the act of obedience that follows us through our lives.
It is our belief in Jesus that saves us... Nothing more... nothing less.... Repentance is a separate issue... an on-going issue that occurs
through-out our earthly lives.
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost."—Titus 3:5.
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."—Eph. 2:8,9.
Anyways.... I'm not going to sit here and argue... Been there and done that... Ya'll have a wonderful day...
Some people just want to argue for the sake of it. We know the truth @Addy so they can say whatever they like, it will not shake us.
Thank you for reading post #19.
I don’t deny that John the baptist, Jesus and his chosen disciples, preached repentance unto God. But that is not what I was addressing and arguing against, but this, that the Bible teaches, that a sinner is only saved after they “repent and believe”, and they are not “made alive” prior to calling on the Lord for salvation.
Since you have read my post #19, and you had not said of any objection to the state in which the fallen man is, that is they are in a state of death, I would assume that you agree to that. Now consider the last part of that post, and I quote:
“Now, considering this state of death that fallen mankind is in, we know that they have no life in them. And having no life, he can’t only not do as he wills but that he can do nothing that pertains to life. To be able to, he must be born again, and that, unto life. Only when that happens to a man, that he could do things pertaining to life.
However, a born again man does not mean that he is perfect by having been born again, but that, he is taken out from being in the state of death or being dead, and so is enabled to do what he could not otherwise do had he not been born again. He could now see the kingdom of God.”
And now, having been alive, he now could see and hear. And hearing, he could repent towards God and believe. And believing he can then call on the name of the Lord. One who is dead, could simply not repent and believe if God does not first make him alive.
Tong
R2490
I know... I don't usually take part in these discussions... Not sure why I did... must be early morning boredom... LOL
