Tongues

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CharismaticLady

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It is tongues along with interpretation of tongues that is the sign for the unbeliever. Paul quotes Isaiah when the latter says that the sign to Israel of impending judgment is the stammering speech of foreign invaders. Paul links it with tongues, that when unbelievers come into a church service and they hear the "babbling" of a foreign sounding language, followed by a prophetic interpretation, they are convicted of sin, righteousness, and judgment to come, and as Paul says, the power of the prophetic utterance is that they fall on their faces and confess that God is really among the Christians in that church.

I disagree totally. It is our prayer language WITHOUT interpretation that he is talking about that is a sign to the unbeliever leaving them believing you are crazy. The context is verse 23. That is a negative response, and confirms them in their unbelief and ignorance, and their hearts are exposed. Only with interpretation will they fall down on their face and cry out to God.

Verse 21 has to do with unbelief and judgment. It also correlates to the other sign which will be spoken against - Jesus. Mockery of Him will also bring judgment.
 
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Paul Christensen

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I've looked up what Calvin said about "When that which is perfect is come". This is what he says:

"Paul might have put it this way: 'When we have reached the winning-post, then the things that helped us on the course will be finished with.' But he uses the same way of expressing himself as before, in setting perfection in contrast with what is in part. He is saying: 'When perfection comes it will abolish everything that gives aid to our imperfections.' But when will that perfection come? It begins, indeed, at death, because then we put off many weaknesses along with the body; but it will not be completely established until the day of judgment, as we shall soon learn. We conclude that it is stupid of people to make the whole of this discussion apply to the intervening time."

It was obvious to Calvin that the canon of Scripture was well and truly closed for the previous 14 centuries and yet he does not in any way refer to the "perfection" of Scripture to the verse. He reflect what the majority of good commentators state: that the cessation of the gifts occurs at death and that the present use of the gifts are to make up for our present imperfections which will finally be resolved at the day of judgment. So those Calvinists who are quoting the phrase to say that the "perfection of Scripture" is the reason for cessation of the gifts, are dreamers, using the phrase to give credence to their silly dreams.

It is interesting what Calvin says about tongues in 1 Corinthians 14. In fact, he is a bit enigmatic about it. He is definite that there is a gift of tongues, and that there is a private and public use of it, but the public use must include interpretation. He says that it is a sign to unbelievers in the sense that when they hear a foreign language it means a curse of judgment, in the same way as Isaiah says it. Then he says something very interesting: "If I pray in a language that is unknown to me, and the Spirit provides me with a rich flow of words, it is clear that the Spirit itself, which controls my tongue, will indeed be praying, but my understanding will not be involved with the prayer." This may very well mean that praying in tongues is not unknown or unusual to him. Perhaps he had prayed in tongues, or at least known of people around him who did pray in tongues. he says that in his day there are theologians who viciously pour out their opposition to it. He doesn't seem to identify with them, but takes a more moderate stance. He says that the gift of tongues was not given just for the Corinthians to show off, nor was tongues without purpose. He says it was given for the purpose of communication. And he goes on to say that communication in a foreign language at church is like speaking to the wall because no one understands what is being spoken. It is only useful in church when here is someone present who can interpret it into language which can be understood.

So, those Calvinists who are extremely opposed to tongues, definitely do not represent Calvin's personal view of the gift. I am still looking for his reason why the gift declined and ceased.
 

Paul Christensen

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I disagree totally. It is our prayer language WITHOUT interpretation that he is talking about that is a sign to the unbeliever leaving them believing you are crazy. The context is verse 23. That is a negative response, and confirms them in their unbelief and ignorance, and their hearts are exposed. Only with interpretation will they fall down on their face and cry out to God.

Verse 21 has to do with unbelief and judgment. It also correlates to the other sign which will be spoken against - Jesus. Mockery of Him will also bring judgment.
Calvin has an interesting comment about that. He says that when unbelievers hear the foreign languages of tongues, they are convicted of sin, righteousness and judgment to come, but to try and hide their sense of conviction, they accuse the believers of being mad. This goes right along with Festus, when he heard Paul preaching the gospel to him, which caused feelings of conviction, he masked his feelings by saying, "Much learning has made you mad!" Felix on the other hand "trembled" when Paul preached the Gospel to him, and he dealt with with his feelings of conviction by putting Paul off to another time. These two responses often come from unbelievers when they are confronted with the Gospel and are convicted of sin. They either rubbish the preacher, or procrastinate an advance toward a decision for Christ.
 
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n2thelight

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Acts 2:1 "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place."

Jesus appeared to them on the fortieth day, and told them to wait in Jerusalem. Pentecost is simply the word in the Greek meaning "fifty". So this is what happened ten days after Jesus ascended into heaven, and the two angels appeared to them. Pentecost or fifty, is the numerical value given in biblical numerics for first fruits. So we would call Pentecost the grace of the firstfruits.

The first fruits are God's election, and in this final generation it will be those firstfruits that this event shall come upon. The speaking of the Holy Spirit, in the manner that we will see that it happened in Acts 2, shall not happen until the final generation, our generation, and we shall document it in this chapter. There will be examples of it, as we saw the the Holy Spirit was even with David.

Acts 2:2 "And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting."

This mighty rushing wind was the Spirit of God, the "Pneuma" in the Greek. Strong's Greek dictionary records the # 4151. There was no wondering and guessing whether the Spirit of God was there, it filled the house, and all of the hundred and fifty that were in that house.

It is written in Revelation 7:1, "And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor the sea, nor any tree."

The four winds of the earth are concentrated on that one spot, and Holy Spirit of the God approached, and now we will see what it will do.

It is important that you know what happened on Pentecost day, and what the Holy Spirit said to the apostles, and to those those that were with them. You hear many different ideas of what the sound of the Holy Spirit is like, and it could become confusing; and that is why it is important that we take our information direct from the Word. Much is made of how the Holy Spirit spoke, but there is not much about what was said. This is the most important part.

Acts 2:3 "And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them."

"Cloven" in the Strong's Greek dictionary, # 1266, "Diamerizo, to partition thoroughly (lit. in distribution), cloven, divide, part." Cloven is going out in every direction, just like a uncontrolled fire that consumes everything in it's path. We are told in Hebrews 12:29 that; "For our God is a consuming fire." God's spirit and glory is this fire of His Holy Spirit.

Think a moment; God has no lost motion. Everything that is written by His scribes, the prophets and apostles have a very special meaning. What was given by the Holy Spirit was distributed in every direction, or language?

Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."

What those apostles spoke was not from their mind, but from what the Spirit gave them utterance. What we are to see in this chapter is not to talk down on anyone's beliefs or intelligence, we are studying to understand what is written in God's holy Word. Friend, it is not important what men might think, but what is important is what God's Word actually states. That is the only thing that we will give value to in this study, for it is important what God has stated in His Word. What God states shall come to pass. We are not out to mock, but to correct any misunderstandings that one might have about "tongues".

The word "tongues" simply means "languages". In Strong's Greek dictionary # 1100 the word; "Glossa, gloce-sah', by impl. a language (spec. one naturally unacquired): - tongue."

It stated here that the Holy Spirit fell upon the apostles and all of the people that were present with them. Then who actually spoke? They didn't. The Holy Spirit spoke through all of them. It was the Holy Spirit that formed the words and made those words to be distributed in every direction. There are some people that will tell you that if you do not speak in these tongues, you are not even saved. Friend, you can speak in whatever noise you desire to make, and call it from the Holy Spirit, but as long as utterance is formed in your mind by you, and you are the doing it, the Holy Spirit is not connected with it.

It is the Holy Spirit that gives the utterance. "Utterance" in the Greek as defined by Strong's Greek dictionary # 669 is; "Apophtheggomai, ap-of-theng'-om-ahee, to enunciate plainly, i.e. declare; say, speak forth."

It is very sad, but it is done because of peer pressure, and when a person is in the middle of a congregation, and all those around this soul will help them along a little bit. They try to help him demonstrate his ability to speak in their so-called tongues. This is done by the chanting "hallelujah, hallelujah,.."over and over, either in word or song. This is not the Holy Spirit that is speaking after such pressure, but they are instructing the individual to speak.

Chants are very unbiblical. It is called repetition prayer, something that is done over and over, and pretty soon the flesh takes over, and this becomes the flesh speaking. Satan and the flesh really likes to get into the act of Christian's prayers. Jesus instructs how to pray in Matthew 6:6,7:

Matthew 6:6 "But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father Which is in secret; and thy Father Which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."

Matthew 6:7 "But when ye pray, use not vain repetions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

For those that do not know what the word "Hallelujah" means, or what language it is in; "Hallelujah" is a Greek form [Alleluia] of a Hebrew Word, and it means "Praise (ye) the Jah". "Jah" comes from the name of the Father "YHVH". When you are using the word Hallelujah, you are using the sacred name "YHVH", so when you are saying the name Jah, or "YHVH" over and over in a chant, you playing with the Father's sacred name. God is not the author of confusion, or any confusion that may come out of man's traditions.

So what did they say, and what was this cloven tongue? Be careful and let God's Word speak.

Acts 2:5 "And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven."

There were people in Jerusalem, Jews that came from all the languages of the world. from the oriential, to the Greek, from the Hebrew to the tongues of Africa. The people that were about to hear what was spoken by these apostles and those that were with them that were fill with the Holy Spirit, were all devout men from every nation on the face of this earth.

Acts 2:6 "Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language."

This was on the feast day, Pentecost, and when all the people came together to hear what these people were saying that were filled with the Holy Spirit, they were stunned, [sunchuno, in the Greek]. They were shocked, but what shocked them? This is the reason they were shocked and stunned. "Because that every man heard them speak in his own language."

There was no turkey calling nor confusion that needed translation from the mind of a man. There was no interpretation needed because every man heard them speak in the tongue or language that they spoke back home. They knew who these people were that were speaking in tongues, that they were Galilaeans, but how could they speak and everyone understand at the same time what was spoken? Friend, that is how the Holy Spirit of God shall speak in our generation. There will be no confusion, nor need of any interpreter. This is the evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit, it is not the spirit of some man's making.

What ever language that ear hears with in its home neighborhood, that is exactly how the Holy Spirit of God will sound to them when it comes from God's Spirit. If you are Mexican, then you would hear in the Spanish tongue, with all the dialect words of your neighborhood. The Holy Spirit unctions, and speaks in all the languages of the world, and man can not copy that.

If you hear one speaking in such a manner, where all those listening can hear and understand in a clear manner, then you are witnessing the evidence of the Holy Spirit. On the other hand, if you are witnessing something that sounds like a strange turkey call, and nobody around understand any part of what is said, then you are witnessing confusion. Confusion is not of God, but of Satan. These are the words from the Living Word, Jesus Christ. I would rather hear something that I understood directly, then something that needed interpretation from man traditions.

acts2
 
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Paul Christensen

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Acts 2:1 "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place."

Jesus appeared to them on the fortieth day, and told them to wait in Jerusalem. Pentecost is simply the word in the Greek meaning "fifty". So this is what happened ten days after Jesus ascended into heaven, and the two angels appeared to them. Pentecost or fifty, is the numerical value given in biblical numerics for first fruits. So we would call Pentecost the grace of the firstfruits.

The first fruits are God's election, and in this final generation it will be those firstfruits that this event shall come upon. The speaking of the Holy Spirit, in the manner that we will see that it happened in Acts 2, shall not happen until the final generation, our generation, and we shall document it in this chapter. There will be examples of it, as we saw the the Holy Spirit was even with David.

Acts 2:2 "And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting."

This mighty rushing wind was the Spirit of God, the "Pneuma" in the Greek. Strong's Greek dictionary records the # 4151. There was no wondering and guessing whether the Spirit of God was there, it filled the house, and all of the hundred and fifty that were in that house.

It is written in Revelation 7:1, "And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor the sea, nor any tree."

The four winds of the earth are concentrated on that one spot, and Holy Spirit of the God approached, and now we will see what it will do.

It is important that you know what happened on Pentecost day, and what the Holy Spirit said to the apostles, and to those those that were with them. You hear many different ideas of what the sound of the Holy Spirit is like, and it could become confusing; and that is why it is important that we take our information direct from the Word. Much is made of how the Holy Spirit spoke, but there is not much about what was said. This is the most important part.

Acts 2:3 "And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them."

"Cloven" in the Strong's Greek dictionary, # 1266, "Diamerizo, to partition thoroughly (lit. in distribution), cloven, divide, part." Cloven is going out in every direction, just like a uncontrolled fire that consumes everything in it's path. We are told in Hebrews 12:29 that; "For our God is a consuming fire." God's spirit and glory is this fire of His Holy Spirit.

Think a moment; God has no lost motion. Everything that is written by His scribes, the prophets and apostles have a very special meaning. What was given by the Holy Spirit was distributed in every direction, or language?

Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."

What those apostles spoke was not from their mind, but from what the Spirit gave them utterance. What we are to see in this chapter is not to talk down on anyone's beliefs or intelligence, we are studying to understand what is written in God's holy Word. Friend, it is not important what men might think, but what is important is what God's Word actually states. That is the only thing that we will give value to in this study, for it is important what God has stated in His Word. What God states shall come to pass. We are not out to mock, but to correct any misunderstandings that one might have about "tongues".

The word "tongues" simply means "languages". In Strong's Greek dictionary # 1100 the word; "Glossa, gloce-sah', by impl. a language (spec. one naturally unacquired): - tongue."

It stated here that the Holy Spirit fell upon the apostles and all of the people that were present with them. Then who actually spoke? They didn't. The Holy Spirit spoke through all of them. It was the Holy Spirit that formed the words and made those words to be distributed in every direction. There are some people that will tell you that if you do not speak in these tongues, you are not even saved. Friend, you can speak in whatever noise you desire to make, and call it from the Holy Spirit, but as long as utterance is formed in your mind by you, and you are the doing it, the Holy Spirit is not connected with it.

It is the Holy Spirit that gives the utterance. "Utterance" in the Greek as defined by Strong's Greek dictionary # 669 is; "Apophtheggomai, ap-of-theng'-om-ahee, to enunciate plainly, i.e. declare; say, speak forth."

It is very sad, but it is done because of peer pressure, and when a person is in the middle of a congregation, and all those around this soul will help them along a little bit. They try to help him demonstrate his ability to speak in their so-called tongues. This is done by the chanting "hallelujah, hallelujah,.."over and over, either in word or song. This is not the Holy Spirit that is speaking after such pressure, but they are instructing the individual to speak.

Chants are very unbiblical. It is called repetition prayer, something that is done over and over, and pretty soon the flesh takes over, and this becomes the flesh speaking. Satan and the flesh really likes to get into the act of Christian's prayers. Jesus instructs how to pray in Matthew 6:6,7:

Matthew 6:6 "But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father Which is in secret; and thy Father Which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."

Matthew 6:7 "But when ye pray, use not vain repetions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

For those that do not know what the word "Hallelujah" means, or what language it is in; "Hallelujah" is a Greek form [Alleluia] of a Hebrew Word, and it means "Praise (ye) the Jah". "Jah" comes from the name of the Father "YHVH". When you are using the word Hallelujah, you are using the sacred name "YHVH", so when you are saying the name Jah, or "YHVH" over and over in a chant, you playing with the Father's sacred name. God is not the author of confusion, or any confusion that may come out of man's traditions.

So what did they say, and what was this cloven tongue? Be careful and let God's Word speak.

Acts 2:5 "And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven."

There were people in Jerusalem, Jews that came from all the languages of the world. from the oriential, to the Greek, from the Hebrew to the tongues of Africa. The people that were about to hear what was spoken by these apostles and those that were with them that were fill with the Holy Spirit, were all devout men from every nation on the face of this earth.

Acts 2:6 "Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language."

This was on the feast day, Pentecost, and when all the people came together to hear what these people were saying that were filled with the Holy Spirit, they were stunned, [sunchuno, in the Greek]. They were shocked, but what shocked them? This is the reason they were shocked and stunned. "Because that every man heard them speak in his own language."

There was no turkey calling nor confusion that needed translation from the mind of a man. There was no interpretation needed because every man heard them speak in the tongue or language that they spoke back home. They knew who these people were that were speaking in tongues, that they were Galilaeans, but how could they speak and everyone understand at the same time what was spoken? Friend, that is how the Holy Spirit of God shall speak in our generation. There will be no confusion, nor need of any interpreter. This is the evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit, it is not the spirit of some man's making.

What ever language that ear hears with in its home neighborhood, that is exactly how the Holy Spirit of God will sound to them when it comes from God's Spirit. If you are Mexican, then you would hear in the Spanish tongue, with all the dialect words of your neighborhood. The Holy Spirit unctions, and speaks in all the languages of the world, and man can not copy that.

If you hear one speaking in such a manner, where all those listening can hear and understand in a clear manner, then you are witnessing the evidence of the Holy Spirit. On the other hand, if you are witnessing something that sounds like a strange turkey call, and nobody around understand any part of what is said, then you are witnessing confusion. Confusion is not of God, but of Satan. These are the words from the Living Word, Jesus Christ. I would rather hear something that I understood directly, then something that needed interpretation from man traditions.

acts2
Plenty of man's wisdom here! Skillful manipulation of different parts of Scripture to prove a point.
 
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n2thelight

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Plenty of man's wisdom here! Skillful manipulation of different parts of Scripture to prove a point.

Well ,let's keep it simple, the below is the next time true tongues shall be spoken


Mark 13:9
"But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for My sake,, for a testimony against them."

Mark 13:10 "And the gospel must first be published among all nations."

Mark 13:11 "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost [Spirit]."

Do you know this hour ? Anyway another subject , back to the one at hand , the only so called tongues being spoken now is babble

As for the skillful manipulation

Isaiah 28:10 "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little and there a little:"

Wasn't manipulating was just giving multiple witnesses of the subject!!!
 
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NayborBear

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The church I had to stop going to had Easter egg hunts for the kids. That really bothers me. But Christmas trees don't bother me at all. And both originated from the same false god. It all has to do with what I, personally, associate with them. Easter eggs mean Tammuz to me, whereas a lighted Christmas tree makes me think of the Light of the World, Jesus.

From what I've learnt? They're all "traditions of man." Least according to what the arab told the camel! "Give ya an inch?"...."You'll take a mile!" Such is apostasy, eh?
 
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NayborBear

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I don't think Paul means that a person is selfish. Jude instructs believers to "build yourselves up in your most holy faith, praying in the Spirit." There is a difference between building oneself up in their most holy faith by praying in tongues, and puffing themselves up in selfish pride thinking they know better about the things of God than everyone else.

Also, the question about where Paul prayed in tongues, if not in the church as he instructed the Corinthians when he said, "I thank God that I speak in tongues more than you all" and then he says "Yet in the church" which clearly indicates that he prays in tongues apart from church services. Also, he says, "I would that you all spoke in tongues", but where? Not in the church, because if that was so, he would contradict his own instructions. And we know that Holy Spirit inspired Scripture doesn't contradict itself.

So, if you are going to limit tongues to church services, and link it with interpretation of tongues, and nowhere else, you are saying that Paul spoke with tongues in church services along with all the others, making him a hypocrite, instructing others not to do something he does himself.

The only answer to the question by people who actually use their logical sense is to see that Paul does all his praying in tongues away from the public church services. Of course, I just use Grade 5 comprehension 101 because I don't have any prejudice against tongues that would turn my brain off.

Which is why Paul was chastising the Church at Corinth!
He didn't want, and the Church did/does not "need" everyone praying in tongues, UNLESS, there was someone there who could A) Interpret what was being said and, B) That which was being said "edified the Church!" Which is the greater gift!

1 Corinthians 14:1
Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but RATHER that ye may prophesy.
1 Corinthians 14:12
Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
 

NayborBear

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I find that when I have a need to pray concerning an issue, and I can't find the words, I pray in tongues. After a short while, I am able to find the right words, and Scripture verses to continue praying in English. It is as if praying with the Spirit, releases a freedom of expression in English to convey to God what is on my heart.

And I find that praying in tongues really does build up my faith in Christ, and often, the exact Scripture comes to mind that fits the issue or question that I am seeking the Lord about. The miracle is that I have never memorized Scripture, and sometimes verses come to me that I haven't thought about for many years and could never have memorized. Once, I got the chapter and verse reference mpressed on my mind, and when I opened my Bible and read the verse, I was amazed at how exact it was for what I needed to know.

Are you sure it is "praying in tongues?"
Or would what you're describing be more like this:
1 John 2:27
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
1 Peter 2:5
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
 

NayborBear

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Calvin has an interesting comment about that. He says that when unbelievers hear the foreign languages of tongues, they are convicted of sin, righteousness and judgment to come, but to try and hide their sense of conviction, they accuse the believers of being mad. This goes right along with Festus, when he heard Paul preaching the gospel to him, which caused feelings of conviction, he masked his feelings by saying, "Much learning has made you mad!" Felix on the other hand "trembled" when Paul preached the Gospel to him, and he dealt with with his feelings of conviction by putting Paul off to another time. These two responses often come from unbelievers when they are confronted with the Gospel and are convicted of sin. They either rubbish the preacher, or procrastinate an advance toward a decision for Christ.

Aye! Not only for the unbeliever is one convicted toward a decision for Christ!
But, said conviction applies TO a believer, inasmuch as spurning a believer TO He who sent Christ!
Which, was why Jesus was sent in the.....And you could almost say...In the 2nd place!
Matthew 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
 

amadeus

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So how come on the day of pentecost some COULD understand the language in their own tongue
and yet many could not understand anything and thought they were babbling drunk .
Tongues is real and it is a heavenly language indeed .
Though do be on guard , i have seen many who claim it , but get up and bark like dogs and walk around on leashes
and play the clown . YEAH that AINT THE SPIRIT at work at all . That is something entirely different . ANOTHER SPIRIT AT WORK .
And not a good one either .

If one can understand it, tongues are in effect what Jesus described in his explanation of parables:

"Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear." Matt 13:13-16
 

amadeus

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im not talking about real languages, Ghana is a real place, im only talking about the spirit / angel language, the one that can not be tested and confirmed.
But should not the test and confirmation be by God rather than by men?
 

amigo de christo

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If one can understand it, tongues are in effect what Jesus described in his explanation of parables:

"Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear." Matt 13:13-16
Yes and for personal spiritual edification . Plus if there is an intepreter present , then it also can edify the entire church .
We should keep it according to the pattern given . Two or by three at most and with an intepreter so the church can be edified .
We should also know the SPIRIT would never have us acting like animals , barking like dogs . I seen a nightmare
on a video that was done during this toronto blessing . We had grown men being walked around on leashes and acting unseemingly .
I knew something was dead wrong about all of that .
 

amadeus

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the spirit can give you all the strength you need. how is praying in my common language, the way Jesus taught to pray, different than praying in the angel language?
How is the gift of an evangelist different from the gift of a pastor? How are the five kinds of ministries given to us by God [as per Eph. 4:11] different, one from the other? If a person cannot state the difference is he lost in the eyes of God? Is this not why God looks at a person's heart rather than his theology?
 

amadeus

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your right, i dont understand, because to me if it was a divine gift from the heavens that should make these simple questions more than easy to answer, but they never get answered.
They sometimes are not answered and sometimes they are answered incorrectly, but to say they never get answered also to me seems be a bit presumptuous. I have some answers acceptable to me, but I also have personal experience in human languages [I read three] and in speaking in a tongue from God. Whether my answers would be acceptable to you, I cannot say. God knows and God gives all real increases in things pertaining to God. He does not give everything to everyone. Not all of us who walk with God are, or are to be, the same part of the Body of Christ with precisely the same function:

"Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ." I Cor 12:4-12
 

Robert Gwin

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Where does the Book of Acts say that? What caused 3000 to be converted to Christ on the day of Pentecost was Paul preaching in his learned language, not in tongues. When the disciples spoke in tongues, they spoke of the mighty works of God, not preaching the Gospel to the crowd.

It is amazing how some turn their brains off and read stuff into the Bible that is not even there. It is similar to what the Lord said to Jeremiah about the false prophets dreaming stuff out of their own minds and presenting the dreamed-up lies as God's word for the people.

Thanks Paul for asking. Keep in mind those that were added rapidly, such as the 3000 you mentioned, many were already Jehovah's people, they accepted Jesus was the Messiah, and accepted his new covenant, so there was a rapid number entering into the faith that were already of that language. Of course for those 120 when the holy spirit was poured out on them and they started speaking in tongues they were already speaking the same language, and that display had nothing with spreading the good news. That example verified that God’s favor had shifted from the Jewish system of worship to the newly established Christian congregation. (Heb. 2:2-4)

A bit later notice what was said: (Acts 2:5-11) . . .At that time devout Jews from every nation under heaven were staying in Jerusalem. 6 So when this sound occurred, a crowd gathered and was bewildered, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. 7 Indeed, they were utterly amazed and said: “See here, all these who are speaking are Gal·i·leʹans, are they not? 8 How is it, then, that each one of us is hearing his own native language? 9 Parʹthi·ans, Medes, and Eʹlam·ites, the inhabitants of Mes·o·po·taʹmi·a, Ju·deʹa and Cap·pa·doʹci·a, Ponʹtus and the province of Asia, 10 Phrygʹi·a and Pam·phylʹi·a, Egypt and the regions of Libʹy·a near Cy·reʹne, sojourners from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Creʹtans, and Arabians—we hear them speaking in our languages about the magnificent things of God.. . .
From that we can discern that speaking in tongues was instrumental in the formation of the new Christian congregation.

I hope that helps Paul, thank you for asking for more evidence sir.
 
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Robert Gwin

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"Voting out" the gift of tongues from AOG services is the height of religious arrogance. These people think they can "vote out" the Holy Spirit? Who do they think they are? No wonder there is an invasion of the occult, Hindu mind control and other spurious teaching and manifestation in their meetings. If they have "voted out" the Holy Spirit, the devil is "voting in" his counterfeits and turning the Penteostal movement into something he feels quite comfortable with. There are large branches of the movement that no longer preach the true Gospel that glorifies Christ and encourages people to have faith in His finished work on the Cross. It seems that Kenny Copeland's brand has taken over the Charismatic movement. It is true that when churches turn away from the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit and His gifts and depend on worldly business practices, music, and man's wisdom messages, the devil comes in with His counterfeit teaching, prophecies, babbling tongues and kundalini manifestations (jerking, shaking, uncontrolled laughing, and falling backwards).

If you want to find where the real power of the Holy Spirit is, find a small, out of the way, group of faithful believers, who celebrate the finished work of Christ on the Cross, who welcome the gifts of the Spirit into their meetings. You won't see their meetings on Youtube, or in a stadium or mega-church building. They may be meeting in a small school hall, or someone's home, because they are more concerned about their church being a fellowship centre than a religious "temple" or organisation.

I am sorry sir, I am unable to answer that question. We have never heard of a faith that votes for or against the holy spirit.
 

Robert Gwin

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Who said so?

Thanks for asking Triumph:
(1 Corinthians 13:8-10) 8 Love never fails. But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away with. 9 For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially, 10 but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with.

May I ask if you have a Triumph 1300 sir?
 

Robert Gwin

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This is incorrect. You can't spread the gospel if they can't understand what you are saying, and "no man understands." Please read my longer post on this above #74.

I fully agree with your statement that you certainly cannot teach what you do not understand. Jesus gave the assignment at Mat 28:19,20, and of course once a disciple is made, then he is adequately qualified to teach and make disciples as well. Jehovah stated this for our time maam:
(Isaiah 2:2, 3) . . .In the final part of the days, The mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, And it will be raised up above the hills, And to it all the nations will stream. 3 And many peoples will go and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, To the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways, And we will walk in his paths.”. . .
Likely you believe we are living in the last days, so this prophecy is being fulfilled today, as a matter of fact we are quite close to fulfilling our assignment reaching almost to the ends of the earth Acts 1:8; Mat 24:14

But as far as tongues originally being a teaching method, perhaps you haven't reviewed the account for a while:
(Acts 2:6-11) . . .a crowd gathered and was bewildered, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. 7 Indeed, they were utterly amazed and said: “See here, all these who are speaking are Gal·i·leʹans, are they not? 8 How is it, then, that each one of us is hearing his own native language? 9 Parʹthi·ans, Medes, and Eʹlam·ites, the inhabitants of Mes·o·po·taʹmi·a, Ju·deʹa and Cap·pa·doʹci·a, Ponʹtus and the province of Asia, 10 Phrygʹi·a and Pam·phylʹi·a, Egypt and the regions of Libʹy·a near Cy·reʹne, sojourners from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Creʹtans, and Arabians—we hear them speaking in our languages about the magnificent things of God.”