Who is Jesus Christ?

Brakelite · Apr 8, 2021

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” John 1:1
Interesting is the way the New English Bible renders this verse. It says
“When all things began, the word already was. The word dwelt with God and what God was, the word was.” John 1:1 New English Bible
“God” (the Father) and “the Word” (the Son of God) are two separate divine personages. One literal rendering of this verse could be
‘In beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God [Gr. ton qeon], and the Word was God [Gr. qeov]’.
In this particular instance, in using these words this way, John was conveying the thought that in the sense of divine personages, ‘the God’ was separate from ‘the Word’ yet the Word ‘was God’. By his usage of words, John is saying that the Word was God essentially (the Word was everything that God is) but He is not God in personality (in personage). Here ‘the God’ is the Father. Look at it this way. If John had said that ‘the Word’ was with ‘ton qeon’ (the God), and the Word was ‘ton qeon’ (the God)’, this would not make any sense. It would be saying that both ‘the Word’ and ‘the God’ are the same individual personages - which they are not. Here he is saying that the Word is fully and completely God yet at the same time differentiating Him from the ‘one God’, meaning the infinite God, the Father (see John 17:3 and 1 Corinthians 8:6). This was his purpose in writing this way. He wanted to say that both were God – also that God (which must mean the Father) and the Word were two separate personages. This does not make ‘the Word’ (the Son of God) any less divine than ‘the God’ (the Father) because as can be repeatedly seen throughout the NT, the Scriptures clearly reveal that Christ is God Himself in the person of the Son. It is just that the Son is not ‘the God’ in individual personage. The latter is the Father. John’s purpose was to identify the personage of the Son (see John 20:31).

CoreIssue · Apr 8, 2021

The spirit of Jesus Christ is the second person of the Trinity, one of the Godhead and cannot die.

The flesh of Jesus Christ is completely human, not eternal, not a member of the Godhead or Trinity and could die and did.

Only a human could pay the sins of other humans. That is why he descended and took on flesh to live as a human.

Just as our spirits indwell our flesh cannot die but are not God. When we are born again our spirits are born again but our flesh is not purified until the rapture\resurrection.

BARNEY BRIGHT · Apr 9, 2021

Backlit said:
Like all JWs, you misunderstand some truths and misapply them. You correctly see that the Son was subject to the Father in all things. You correctly see that the Son was given all authority, and that the Son was limited in His understanding of future events... Unable on His own to work miracles... And not having His own independence but doing only what He was instructed by His Father. You see these things, but make some wrong assumptions as to why these things are so.
KJV Philippians 2:6-8
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Equal with God? Even the Jews recognised that in claiming to be the Son of God (not a son such as created angels are... Not a son as adopted redeemed are) but a literal begotten offspring and Son who by rightful inheritance received everything in His very nature that belongs also to the Father. That is, all His Divine attributes. And those Divine attributes... His omnipresence... Omnipotence... Omniscience, He deliberately laid aside that He could become one of His own creation, a man with all the inherited liabilities and limitations that the flesh had burdened the human with since Adam.
After the resurrection, He once again took His rightful place at the right hand of His Father, having had His great sacrifice accepted. Nevertheless, the Son of the Almighty will always be a man. The sacrifice He made for humanity was more than simply taking man's punishment for sin.
The only thing that the Son lacks when compared with His Father is rank. Which alone destroys the traditional concept of trinity and all the church originated creeds and dogmas and associated curses upon all who would dare disagree with them.

As usual you never considered the context of philippians 2:5-8. This scripture is telling us to have the same mental attitude of humbleness as Jesus had. So according to those Like you who take this scripture out of context we all suppose to think ourselves equal with God. Yeah right. Philippians is talking about the Only Begotten Son of God being in the form of God before he became human but even though he was in Gods form the Only-Begotten Son of God didn't even snatch at the idea he was Gods equal. Then the Only Begotten Son of God emptied himself and took a slave form and came to be in the likeness of men

Robert Gwin · Apr 9, 2021

marks said:
You aren't addressing the Scripture which tells us what that baptism was. You are saying it was a "baptism of annointing", where to do find this in the Bible?

Much love!

Maybe this will help sir:
Jesus promised his disciples just before his ascension: “You will be baptized in holy spirit not many days after this.” (Acts 1:5, 8) Shortly thereafter that promise was fulfilled. Holy spirit descended upon some 120 disciples gathered in an upper room in Jerusalem as Jesus, from heaven, performed his first baptisms in holy spirit. (Acts 2:1-4, 33) With what result? The disciples became a part of the spiritual body of Christ. As the apostle Paul explains, “by one spirit [they] were all baptized into one body.” (1 Corinthians 12:13) At the same time, they were anointed to be future kings and priests in God’s heavenly Kingdom. (Ephesians 1:13, 14; 2 Timothy 2:12; Revelation 20:6) The holy spirit also served as an initial seal and token of that glorious future inheritance, but that was not all.—2 Corinthians 1:21, 22.

A few years earlier, Jesus had said to Nicodemus: “Unless anyone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. . . . Unless anyone is born from water and spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3, 5) Now 120 humans had been born again. By means of holy spirit, they had been adopted as spiritual sons of God, brothers of Christ. (John 1:11-13; Romans 8:14, 15)

Robert Gwin · Apr 9, 2021

marks said:
Who was Jesus before He was born?

Much love!

We believe his heavenly name is Michael

Robert Gwin · Apr 9, 2021

Wrangler said:
What verse is that; the Shema? (BTW, I recently read the word 'Jehovah' is a medieval invention, not a transliteration or translation of Scripture). In any event, one is no kind of 3; 3 is no kind of one. I remind trinitarians that the Shema would have been an excellent time for God to announce his trinitarian nature. Odd that the trinity is so important that none of the Biblical authors mention it once in 66 books.

(A:vi, S: v) 4 “Sh’ma, Yisra’el! Adonai Eloheinu, Adonai echad [Hear, Isra’el! Adonai our God, Adonai is one];
Deuteronomy 6:4 (Complete Jewish Bible)

With light research Wrangler, you will see your version altered it, changing YHWH to Adonai

Robert Gwin · Apr 9, 2021

Amazed@grace said:
Read John 1 verses 1 & 14.

Clearly those verses point out the Word was with God and the Word is God's son, not God Himself. Do you believe Jesus is God?

Robert Gwin · Apr 9, 2021

Hidden In Him said:
He's a very nice Guy, and my friend.

Yes sir, I couldn't agree more, the greatest man who ever lived.

Wrangler · Apr 9, 2021

Robert Gwin said:
With light research Wrangler, you will see your version altered it, changing YHWH to Adonai

It is a translation, not an alteration.

marks · Apr 9, 2021

Robert Gwin said:
We believe his heavenly name is Michael

Why? Michael is the archangel, isn't he?

Much love!

Oh . . . and who is "we"?

marks · Apr 9, 2021

Robert Gwin said:
Maybe this will help sir:
Jesus promised his disciples just before his ascension: “You will be baptized in holy spirit not many days after this.” (Acts 1:5, 8) Shortly thereafter that promise was fulfilled. Holy spirit descended upon some 120 disciples gathered in an upper room in Jerusalem as Jesus, from heaven, performed his first baptisms in holy spirit. (Acts 2:1-4, 33) With what result? The disciples became a part of the spiritual body of Christ. As the apostle Paul explains, “by one spirit [they] were all baptized into one body.” (1 Corinthians 12:13) At the same time, they were anointed to be future kings and priests in God’s heavenly Kingdom. (Ephesians 1:13, 14; 2 Timothy 2:12; Revelation 20:6) The holy spirit also served as an initial seal and token of that glorious future inheritance, but that was not all.—2 Corinthians 1:21, 22.

A few years earlier, Jesus had said to Nicodemus: “Unless anyone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. . . . Unless anyone is born from water and spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3, 5) Now 120 humans had been born again. By means of holy spirit, they had been adopted as spiritual sons of God, brothers of Christ. (John 1:11-13; Romans 8:14, 15)

OK, I understand.

So then when the Gospel writer said that John's baptism was a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins, he was wrong, about that, because Jesus promised another baptism to come that would be different?

John the Baptist himself addressed this. I baptize you with water, but One stands among you, Whose shoe I'm not worthy to untie, Who will baptise with the Holy Spirit, and with fire.

These are two different baptisms. To assert that when John baptised Jesus it was somehow different than what the Bible plainly states not only shows disbelief in the clear teaching of Scripture, but it also prevents one from seeing the real depth of what Jesus did in this world and on our behalf. He shared in everything, even in the baptism for repentance unto the remission of sins.

The Pharisee's didn't see this as an "anointing" baptism. They refused to submit to it, doubtless thinking, How dare this man tell us we need to repent of sins!

Jesus shared in our reproach, here in John's baptism, and of course, on the cross. Our Creator was on a mission to join us together with Himself.

Much love!

Amazed@grace · Apr 9, 2021

Robert Gwin said:
Clearly those verses point out the Word was with God and the Word is God's son, not God Himself. Do you believe Jesus is God?

The verses I shared say, yes! Of course. Do you ?

kcnalp · Apr 9, 2021

Robert Gwin said:
You do understand that was an altered version correct? Matter of fact it was done deliberately as the same translators rendered it a god at Acts 28:6. Why do you suppose they did that K?

Says Kingdom Hall?

kcnalp · Apr 9, 2021

Robert Gwin said:
Let me get this straight, did you not with this post as well as previous ones state that God is going to torture individuals for an eternity? Isn't that what you are trying to prove by the emboldened passages? You would not consider someone who did that to be evil? I would.

Now you're catching on!
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

But take solace sir, that is not what is going to happen to people, as I stated from the beginning, the penalty for sin is death. The lake of fire represents the second death, you either receive everlasting life or get cast into the lake of fire (figuratively) which means the second, or permanent eternal death.

"Figuratively", Kingdom Hall propaganda!

kcnalp · Apr 9, 2021

Wrangler said:
Like all of us men and women, non-existing, unbegotten. Why do you ask?

Micah 5:2 (NKJV)
2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Though you are little among the thousands of Judah, Yet out of you shall come forth to Me The One to be Ruler in Israel, Whose goings forth are from of old, From everlasting."

kcnalp · Apr 9, 2021

Wrangler said:
That applies to all of us. We are all made in the image of God.

Jesus was sinless. You're not.

kcnalp · Apr 9, 2021

Wrangler said:
Supposition on top of supposition. Even if he pre-existed, it most certainly does not mean he is God incarnate.

Jesus is explicitly said to be a man - over and over again. Begotten like us all. Do all men pre-exist before taking human form?

John 1 The Word was God.
Jesus is God.

kcnalp · Apr 9, 2021

Wrangler said:
That’s not what I asked. If he’s a man and pre-exists, then all men must also pre-exist. Just because we do not have more references does not affect the logic involved.

Do all men pre-exist before taking human form? Suppose they do. And further suppose, Jesus being the first born of all creation, is only the first to have his pre-existence referenced.

More intriguing would be why some men pre-exist but not others. Kind of goes against equality. Now, if Jesus were not fully man but being the first born of all creation, something unique, e.g., a man in form only, that would explain things. See how supposition works?

John 1 The Word was God.
You're not.

kcnalp · Apr 9, 2021

BARNEY BRIGHT said:
As usual you never considered the context of philippians 2:5-8. This scripture is telling us to have the same mental attitude of humbleness as Jesus had. So according to those Like you who take this scripture out of context we all suppose to think ourselves equal with God. Yeah right. Philippians is talking about the Only Begotten Son of God being in the form of God before he became human but even though he was in Gods form the Only-Begotten Son of God didn't even snatch at the idea he was Gods equal. Then the Only Begotten Son of God emptied himself and took a slave form and came to be in the likeness of men

You should have studied the Bible instead of giving your soul to Kingdom Hall.

kcnalp · Apr 9, 2021

Robert Gwin said:
We believe his heavenly name is Michael

We???

Who is Jesus Christ?

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