Repentance necessary for salvation.

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Tong2020

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But you said yourself, that no-one is lost because of sin, but because they don't believe. Are you saying that a Christian can never stop trusting? Believing? Having faith? Saving faith???
Not the true Christian.

Tong
R2779
 

Ronald Nolette

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I do not sin in moments when I am abiding in Christ (1 John 3:6).

And the scripture is clear that it is possible to abide in Christ for ever more (1 John 2:17).


I don't sin when I abide either. We cannot sin in that state!

God doesn't change but how He acts does?

It seems to me that if He hasn't changed, His behaviour towards us isn't going to change either.

And also, even if His behaviour does change, His definition for words (like "repentance" is not going to change from dispensation to dispensation.

The Greek language may be limited as concerning words that mean to "make a 180-degree turn away from sin, death, hell, and satan, towards righteousness, life, heaven, and God"...while the Hebrew language may be more adequate in being able to provide a word with that definition.

Therefore, I would say that the definition of repentance in Hebrew just might carry over into the definition for repentance in the New Testament; since we are talking about the same God here.

You can say what you want, but you do not have the authority to change the definitions of words!

Why don't you get off your throne and investigate for yourself if the greek language is limited in telling us to turn from sin.

So if Gods behavior doesn't change, then you believe we are under all 613 Mosaic laws then. Okay good to know.
 

Grailhunter

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1 John 3:6).

And the scripture is clear that it is possible to abide in Christ for ever more (1 John 2:17).

I don't sin when I abide either. We cannot sin in that state!

The question is, do you guys know what it means to abide in Christ?
What it does not mean is that you can sin and it is not called sin or does not count.
I think people abuse these scriptures with the intent of sinning and getting away with it.
Taking Christ for a fool will just be another charge as you stand before Him on Judgment Day.
 

justbyfaith

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Yep, the Grace of God has got you covered as far as Salvation is concerned ( that was a “ free gift, remember)...

The free gift is righteousness (Romans 5:17); which is a practical thing (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6).

...you may get to explain to Jesus why you persisted in Sins after what He did for you on the Cross on that Day...

"get to"?

That does not sound like a pleasant prospect to me.

you ain't gonna be damned for Sinning ( people are only damned for Unbelief) ...

People will, in fact, be damned for sinning (Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 7:23, Matthew 25:41).

Heretics teach that water saves.
So, you should give that up.

I do not teach that there are any magical properties in the water that bring salvation.

But going under the water is a perfect representation of being buried and risen with Christ.

Baptism is an identification with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection; and as such it is a confession of Jesus before men (see Matthew 10:32, Luke 12:8).

A Born Again Christian can't be "lost".
Its impossible.

However, someone who thinks he is born again, can be lost.

The Legalists, The Tares and others never get beyond seeing God as that “ mean old man in the sky “ , that old “ Cosmic Kill- Joy”

There are those who see God as that because He has placed restrictions on our behaviour with His law. However, the Lord does not intend by that to kill our joy, but to protect us from things that lie outside of the boundaries of obedience that can hurt us.

“ even if we are Unfaithful.....He REMAINS Faithful.....He can NOT go back on His Word....” 2 Tim 2:13

If we deny Him, He also will deny us...2 Timothy 2:12.

Does sin not separate us from God?

Here is a timeless verse on the subject.

Isa 59:2, But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

It should be clear that if anyone is born again, they have been set free from sin.

Rom 6:22, But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Rom 6:23, For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


In this scripture, the fact that the gift of God is eternal life does not nullify the fact that the wages of sin is death.

A major part of the gift is that you have been set free from sin, according to the context.

You can say what you want, but you do not have the authority to change the definitions of words!

I have not changed any definitions; but you appear to have changed the definition of repentance from the meaning that it was given in the Old Testament, in Ezekiel 33:11-20.

I believe that when God says "repent" that that is what He means.

Jer 6:16, Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
 
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Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
Does sin not separate us from God?
Here is a timeless verse on the subject.

Isa 59:2, But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

It should be clear that if anyone is born again, they have been set free from sin.

Rom 6:22, But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Rom 6:23, For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


In this scripture, the fact that the gift of God is eternal life does not nullify the fact that the wages of sin is death.

A major part of the gift is that you have been set free from sin, according to the context.
Does sin separate the true Christian from God? Does sin makes the true child of God an enemy of his Father?

Tong
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justbyfaith

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Does sin separate the true Christian from God? Does sin makes the true child of God an enemy of his Father?

Tong
R2782
The true Christian "cannot sin" (1 John 3:9).

We must walk in the light as He is in the light in order for Jesus' blood to cleanse us from all sin (1 John 1:7).

That means that we must be transparent before God; and confess our sins when the Holy Spirit pinpoints them to us (1 John 1:9).
 

Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
Does sin separate the true Christian from God? Does sin makes the true child of God an enemy of his Father?
The true Christian "cannot sin" (1 John 3:9).

We must walk in the light as He is in the light in order for Jesus' blood to cleanse us from all sin (1 John 1:7).

That means that we must be transparent before God; and confess our sins when the Holy Spirit pinpoints them to us (1 John 1:9).
Do you not claim to be a true Christian? I think you do.

Do you sin or not? I think you do.

So, when you sin, are you separated from Christ? When you sin do you become an enemy of God?

Tong
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marks

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Does sin separate the true Christian from God? Does sin makes the true child of God an enemy of his Father?

Tong
R2782
No, it does not.

God reconciled us to Himself even while we were enemies. Now we are His children, and He says nothing will again condemn us. Not being under the Law, there is no Law to condemn.

We serve the Law of Jesus, doing what He wants, and Jesus is our intercessor. Jesus is our Judge. My Brother will judge me! Knowing me loving me, having lived my life with me.

Having promised me . . . "I will NEVER leave you, nor forsake you!"

Much love!
 

marks

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I think people abuse these scriptures with the intent of sinning and getting away with it.
Taking Christ for a fool will just be another charge as you stand before Him on Judgment Day.
Maybe some do, I wouldn't be surprised.

And others believe these Scriptures that we are free from sin in all respects, and by that faith, live overcoming lives.

Much love!
 

justbyfaith

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Do you not claim to be a true Christian? I think you do.

Do you sin or not? I think you do.

I am a true Christian in moments when I am abiding in Christ.

I don't sin in those moments (1 John 3:6).

So, when you sin, are you separated from Christ? When you sin do you become an enemy of God?

To quote the New Testament,

1Jo 3:8, He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Now you tell me whether someone who is of the devil is an enemy of the Lord.

Someone who merely "thinks" he is "born again", whatever that may mean to them, but is not in truth born again, IS lost.

Nevertheless, he thinks that he is saved.
 

Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
Does sin separate the true Christian from God? Does sin makes the true child of God an enemy of his Father?
No, it does not.

God reconciled us to Himself even while we were enemies. Now we are His children, and He says nothing will again condemn us. Not being under the Law, there is no Law to condemn.

We serve the Law of Jesus, doing what He wants, and Jesus is our intercessor. Jesus is our Judge. My Brother will judge me! Knowing me loving me, having lived my life with me.

Having promised me . . . "I will NEVER leave you, nor forsake you!"

Much love!
Yes, that is because we are the children of God and He is our Father. When we sin, we do not become His enemies. What we become is a disobedient child. And our Father chastise and disciplines us accordingly. Chastisement last until we learn and go to Him in repentance and ask for His forgiveness.

Tong
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marks

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Yes, that is because we are the children of God and He is our Father. When we sin, we do not become His enemies. What we become is a disobedient child. And our Father chastise and disciplines us accordingly. Chastisement last until we learn and go to Him in repentance and ask for His forgiveness.

Tong
R2785
There's another promise. God gives us His solemn word that He will not just let us run off away from Him. He WILL chasten, and His chastening WILL BE effective.

You have to completely ignore that to think we'll be lost after being "saved".

Much love!
 

Grailhunter

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And others believe these Scriptures that we are free from sin in all respects, and by that faith, live overcoming lives.

OK, here ya go...do you think that you can do no wrong in life...sin...or the wrong you do is not sin...or the sin you commit does not count?
 

Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
Do you not claim to be a true Christian? I think you do.

Do you sin or not? I think you do.
I am a true Christian in moments when I am abiding in Christ.

I don't sin in those moments (1 John 3:6).
And in moments when you are not abiding in Christ, you are a false Christian? :eek:

And you don’t sin in moments when you are abiding? Of course! :eek: And you also don’t sin when you obey Him or when you are walking according to the Spirit.

Tong2020 said:
So, when you sin, are you separated from Christ? When you sin do you become an enemy of God?
To quote the New Testament,

1Jo 3:8, He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Now you tell me whether someone who is of the devil is an enemy of the Lord.

I am telling you someone who is of the devil is an enemy of the Lord. There I told you.

Now, can you give a direct answer to my questions?

And here’s more.

When a true Christian, a true child of God, commits sin, does he cease to be a child of God and become a child of the devil and so become separated from God and become his enemy? Or does he remain to be his child, and He, being a loving Father, chastise and discipline him?

Have you ever been chastised by God because you sinned?

Tong
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justbyfaith

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I am telling you someone who is of the devil is an enemy of the Lord.

When a true Christian, a true child of God, commits sin, does he cease to be a child of God and become a child of the devil and so become separated from God and become his enemy?
I think that you should look to the scriptures for your answer.

I have already quoted 1 John 3:8.
 

Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
Yes, that is because we are the children of God and He is our Father. When we sin, we do not become His enemies. What we become is a disobedient child. And our Father chastise and disciplines us accordingly. Chastisement last until we learn and go to Him in repentance and ask for His forgiveness.
There's another promise. God gives us His solemn word that He will not just let us run off away from Him. He WILL chasten, and His chastening WILL BE effective.

You have to completely ignore that to think we'll be lost after being "saved".

Much love!
I think that what we believe is our relationship with God and how we see God, somehow affects our reading of scriptures.

Tong
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marks

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OK, here ya go...do you think that you can do no wrong in life...sin...or the wrong you do is not sin...or the sin you commit does not count?
I believe that all our sins, past, present, and future, are forgiven. I find that as I believe this truth, that in Jesus all is forgiven, and all is overcome, that in fact I can live overcoming the sins of the flesh, in love, and joy, and peace.

I believe that when I am not trusting Jesus, but am instead looking to my self for something, that's where sin enters in.

Sin puts my true live in God on hold, as I allow the flesh, my original person, the one born from Adam, to have it's way. When I return to reliance on Jesus Alone, sin stops.

Sin can be destructive, can rob me of my fruitfulness, can rob me of my reputation, worldly goods, heavenly rewards, can hurt those I love, and those I don't know, can bring depression, sickness, death. Does sin count? What it doesn't do is condemn me. God, in Christ, has forgiven me.

Much love!
 

Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
When a true Christian, a true child of God, commits sin, does he cease to be a child of God and become a child of the devil and so become separated from God and become his enemy?
I think that you should look to the scriptures for your answer.

I have already quoted 1 John 3:8.
The questions are for you, not for me. But you are right, the answers to those questions are in scriptures. Actually one will find them in Jesus Christ.

Yes you gave scriptures. But my questions just shows a misuse of that.

It seems you easily forget what Jesus Christ have done for the true Christian and what graces the Christian is blessed with, in Jesus Christ.

Tong
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Grailhunter

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I believe that all our sins, past, present, and future, are forgiven. I find that as I believe this truth, that in Jesus all is forgiven, and all is overcome, that in fact I can live overcoming the sins of the flesh, in love, and joy, and peace.

I believe that when I am not trusting Jesus, but am instead looking to my self for something, that's where sin enters in.

Sin puts my true live in God on hold, as I allow the flesh, my original person, the one born from Adam, to have it's way. When I return to reliance on Jesus Alone, sin stops.

Sin can be destructive, can rob me of my fruitfulness, can rob me of my reputation, worldly goods, heavenly rewards, can hurt those I love, and those I don't know, can bring depression, sickness, death. Does sin count? What it doesn't do is condemn me. God, in Christ, has forgiven me.

Much love!
So you believe that you can do wrong your whole life and still go to heaven...
So you believe that you will be in heaven with...
homosexuals...
child molesters...
drug addicts
Abortion doctors and their staff
cannibals
Voodooists
People like Hitler