A Christian: A Temple Of God Where No Sin Exists.
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- Dec 2, 2010
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Then what's the point of Scripture to you, if it's not reliable communication of God's will?
The written Word of God is just that, the Written Word of God, and we are to live that Word. Jesus/Holy Spirit will teach us how the Word is to be lived. If we let man teach us the Word it will be twisted to mean what Satan wants it to mean.
(1 John 2:27) “But you have not lost the anointing that he gave you, and you do not need anyone to teach you, the anointing he gave teaches you everything; you are anointed with truth, not a lie, and as it has taught you, so you must stay in him.”
Truthful 1
WOW! Praise God for you! I agree with every single thing you've posted. The church does not believe this anymore. The gospel has been so watered down to think that we can keep on sinning and God is totally fine with that because "He knows we're human." I remember reading that "I can do all things through Christ who strenthens me" (Phil 4:13) and that "[God] will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it." (1 Cor 10:13)
We are without excuse. I love that you make reference to us being the Temple of God.... If we house the Holy Spirit in us then we therefore are His temple--how dare we ever defile His temple with sin? There is no argument against the fact that God hates sin, and does not want anyone to continue in it. So if we have the power to say no to sin and God commands that we say no to it, then why are "Christians" still sinning intentionally?
I would love to hear more things God has taught you over the years... So please post them (if God allows).
WOW! Praise God for you! I agree with every single thing you've posted. The church does not believe this anymore. The gospel has been so watered down to think that we can keep on sinning and God is totally fine with that because "He knows we're human." I remember reading that "I can do all things through Christ who strenthens me" (Phil 4:13) and that "[God] will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it." (1 Cor 10:13)
We are without excuse. I love that you make reference to us being the Temple of God.... If we house the Holy Spirit in us then we therefore are His temple--how dare we ever defile His temple with sin? There is no argument against the fact that God hates sin, and does not want anyone to continue in it. So if we have the power to say no to sin and God commands that we say no to it, then why are "Christians" still sinning intentionally?
I would love to hear more things God has taught you over the years... So please post them (if God allows).
- Dec 2, 2010
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Truthful 1
WOW! Praise God for you! I agree with every single thing you've posted. The church does not believe this anymore. The gospel has been so watered down to think that we can keep on sinning and God is totally fine with that because "He knows we're human." I remember reading that "I can do all things through Christ who strenthens me" (Phil 4:13) and that "[God] will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it." (1 Cor 10:13)
We are without excuse. I love that you make reference to us being the Temple of God.... If we house the Holy Spirit in us then we therefore are His temple--how dare we ever defile His temple with sin? There is no argument against the fact that God hates sin, and does not want anyone to continue in it. So if we have the power to say no to sin and God commands that we say no to it, then why are "Christians" still sinning intentionally?
I would love to hear more things God has taught you over the years... So please post them (if God allows).
I was waiting for you to respondto this thread. I saw yourintroduction, and liked it.
There are so few people whounderstand what you said, that it surprises me when I run into someone likeyou.
It can be a benefit to others to hear how a person came to know God, soI would not feel bad if you would share just how it was that you came to knowhim. It is not the theme of thisthread, but it did not seem to be going anywhere so changing the direction willnot hurt anything.
I was waiting for you to respondto this thread. I saw yourintroduction, and liked it.
There are so few people whounderstand what you said, that it surprises me when I run into someone likeyou.
It can be a benefit to others to hear how a person came to know God, soI would not feel bad if you would share just how it was that you came to knowhim. It is not the theme of thisthread, but it did not seem to be going anywhere so changing the direction willnot hurt anything.
Hahaha, waiting for me? That's funny! Not sure what you mean by seeing my introduction, but that's ok.
Well.... I grew up going to a christian school, so that's where my foundation about knowing who God is... but as I got older I started going to youth groups--and I was fortunate enough to have gone to a real-deal youth group that even stopped playing games just so we could be serious about learning God's Word. I don't really know when or how I came to know God... it just sort of happened. I'm constantly growing (I'm only in college now, so I still have a LOT of that to go!) Now I go to a college age group that allows me to be around strong Christians who are living out their faith, and a pastor who brings the raw truth of the Bible.
I'm learning more and more every day that the kingdom of God is small.. (like a mustard seed). It's not some grandiose (sp?) faith with many followers. There are many believers but few followers. Many will say to Him "Lord, Lord" but He will tell them to depart from Him for He never knew them. There's coming a time, which I believe is very soon, when the church is going to "get it"... and there's going to be a massive separation of the sheeps and goats..
I want to be so real with my faith. I'm sick of the slow paced Christianity. I want to see people giving their lives to Christ on a regular basis, where people decide to forsake everything they own for the sake of the gospel. I want to be sharing my faith constantly--no reserves. I want to learn what it means to really seek God and FIND Him.
I was hoping to find encouragement/knowledge/fellowship on this site, but I've mostly just found disagreements with arguments that are not using the Bible... which is a big reason why it's been a while since I've checked in on this site.
By the way... one night I was reading Romans 7 and I came to God asking Him what it meant in regard to the arguments of CAN vs CAN'T be perfect.... and what I believe He revealed to me was that it's a depiction of Creation until after Jesus died. It's really quite interesting. I'll try to show you what I mean with just the references and my comments...
As if Paul is personifying Israel or humanity or something...
Romans 7:9 - Adam and Eve were "alive apart from the Law", God told them not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil; Sin now exists.
Romans 7:10 - When they ate of the fruit (sinned) they died.
Romans 7:11 - The serpent "deceived" Eve by means of the commandment (he tweaked the consequence)
Romans 7:14 - Humanity is now in bondage to flesh and sin
Romans 7:15-23 - Humanity CANNOT keep the 10 Commandments on their own.. they will ALWAYS choose sin
Romans 7:24 - "Who will set me free from the body of this death?" -- Our need for a Savior
Romans 7: 25 - The answer: Jesus Christ
Romans 8:1-2 - We are set free from the law of sin and death!
Romans 8:3-4 - Now we can live by the Spirit and not by our flesh
Romans 8:8 - Just more proof that when Paul says earlier in 7 that he is of flesh and that nothing good is in him was talking about past tense
I could go on, but that's pretty much the gist of it... Have a great day!
I'm sorry but the notion that Christians don't sin is not Biblical based upon some of these verses, how do you deal with them?
1 John 2:
My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.
Romans 6:
Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?
(there's a choice and question)
Phil 3:
Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal ... Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it.
(This is the person that spoke authoritative words of Christ!)
1 John 1:
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.
(Notice that there is both a past and a present sense of sinning).
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I'm sorry but the notion that Christians don't sin is not Biblical based upon some of these verses, how do you deal with them?
1 John 2:
My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.
Romans 6:
Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?
(there's a choice and question)
Phil 3:
Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal ... Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it.
(This is the person that spoke authoritative words of Christ!)
1 John 1:
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.
(Notice that there is both a past and a present sense of sinning).
It's okay, I used to believe the same as you just a few years ago.. I thought that a Christian tries to do the right thing but doesn't always because "we're human and nobody's perfect"
I'm going to work from the bottom up. 1 John 1 is talking about us claiming that we have never sinned. I have certainly sinned in my life. I'll say it, the Bible says it: All have sinned... (Romans 3:23) Yet, don't forget the tense of the word. We all HAVE SINNED--meaning past tense. And of course! That's why we need a Savior! because we have sin. 1 John is referring to the noun. Yes, I am not without sin. I have sinned in the past. So it's not quite as you say being present and past, but rather a noun and past tense verb.
Philippians 3 ... this one I've wondered about too. I think in this case Paul is referring to the fact that he isn't all who he can be. He hasn't achieved perfection in the sense that if he were to say "I have arrived" --we can always improve!
Romans 6 I most certainly won't deny that there is a choice to be able to sin. I'm not saying it is impossible to sin, but what I am saying is that it is impossible to be in Christ and intentionally sin. And look, I can't say I have all the answers or that the way I understand these scriptures is 100% accurate, but what I do know is that God hates sin, and we have no excuse to keep on sinning, having everything we need to maintain a righteous, sinless life. Also, the bible says Jesus is coming back for a blameless and spotless bride (which is the church). He said to be ready and waiting for Him just as in the parable of the 10 virgins.
1 John 2 The key word in this verse is "IF"... notice it doesn't say "WHEN you sin" but "IF" and I think this verse holds the real answer to all of this... Sinning should not be a WHEN for Christians but an IF. We can't allow ourselves to keep on sinning. Because anyone who CONTINUES to sin has neither seen Him or known Him.
I hope this helps clarify your questions, even a little. I pray you would be open to hearing this message and that God himself will reveal truth to you so you know it yourself and it's not just our opinions and interpretations.
- Dec 2, 2010
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That sounds like a wonderful groupof people you are associated with. Ithank God for you and will pray that you all continue in your walk with God.Hahaha, waiting for me? That's funny! Not sure what you mean by seeing my introduction, but that's ok.
Well.... I grew up going to a christian school, so that's where my foundation about knowing who God is... but as I got older I started going to youth groups--and I was fortunate enough to have gone to a real-deal youth group that even stopped playing games just so we could be serious about learning God's Word. I don't really know when or how I came to know God... it just sort of happened. I'm constantly growing (I'm only in college now, so I still have a LOT of that to go!) Now I go to a college age group that allows me to be around strong Christians who are living out their faith, and a pastor who brings the raw truth of the Bible.
I'm learning more and more every day that the kingdom of God is small.. (like a mustard seed). It's not some grandiose (sp?) faith with many followers. There are many believers but few followers. Many will say to Him "Lord, Lord" but He will tell them to depart from Him for He never knew them. There's coming a time, which I believe is very soon, when the church is going to "get it"... and there's going to be a massive separation of the sheeps and goats..
I want to be so real with my faith. I'm sick of the slow paced Christianity. I want to see people giving their lives to Christ on a regular basis, where people decide to forsake everything they own for the sake of the gospel. I want to be sharing my faith constantly--no reserves. I want to learn what it means to really seek God and FIND Him.
I was hoping to find encouragement/knowledge/fellowship on this site, but I've mostly just found disagreements with arguments that are not using the Bible... which is a big reason why it's been a while since I've checked in on this site.
By the way... one night I was reading Romans 7 and I came to God asking Him what it meant in regard to the arguments of CAN vs CAN'T be perfect.... and what I believe He revealed to me was that it's a depiction of Creation until after Jesus died. It's really quite interesting. I'll try to show you what I mean with just the references and my comments...
As if Paul is personifying Israel or humanity or something...
Romans 7:9 - Adam and Eve were "alive apart from the Law", God told them not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil; Sin now exists.
Romans 7:10 - When they ate of the fruit (sinned) they died.
Romans 7:11 - The serpent "deceived" Eve by means of the commandment (he tweaked the consequence)
Romans 7:14 - Humanity is now in bondage to flesh and sin
Romans 7:15-23 - Humanity CANNOT keep the 10 Commandments on their own.. they will ALWAYS choose sin
Romans 7:24 - "Who will set me free from the body of this death?" -- Our need for a Savior
Romans 7: 25 - The answer: Jesus Christ
Romans 8:1-2 - We are set free from the law of sin and death!
Romans 8:3-4 - Now we can live by the Spirit and not by our flesh
Romans 8:8 - Just more proof that when Paul says earlier in 7 that he is of flesh and that nothing good is in him was talking about past tense
I could go on, but that's pretty much the gist of it... Have a great day!
Only God can give one the protection from Satan/sin, and it is wonderfulthat you have found Him.
Your problem isn't with the noun but the verb.I'm going to work from the bottom up. 1 John 1 is talking about us claiming that we have never sinned. I have certainly sinned in my life. I'll say it, the Bible says it: All have sinned... (Romans 3:23) Yet, don't forget the tense of the word. We all HAVE SINNED--meaning past tense. And of course! That's why we need a Savior! because we have sin. 1 John is referring to the noun. Yes, I am not without sin. I have sinned in the past. So it's not quite as you say being present and past, but rather a noun and past tense verb.
"If we claim to be", the verb here is the Greek echo which means to HOLD, accompany, posses, accompany. The KJV actually hits it right here with "have".
Read these other passages, which use the exact same Greek world, and tell yourself if this supports a PAST sense at all:
Matthew 14:17, “We have here only five loaves of bread and two fish,” they answered.
John 8:41, “The only Father we have is God himself.”
Romans 5:1, Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
2 Corinthians 3:4, Such confidence we have through Christ before God.
Just to name a few.
Do these support a past sense or a present sense?
The past sense is the "If we claimed we have not sinned" as the key word there is harmartano, which is to offend, miss the mark, a semi-literal translation would be "If we say that not we sinned liar we make him"... THIS is your past tense verse. You cannot apply this to the first one above.
The context is confidence in the flesh, IE things of self... What are things of self? Sin.Philippians 3 ... this one I've wondered about too. I think in this case Paul is referring to the fact that he isn't all who he can be. He hasn't achieved perfection in the sense that if he were to say "I have arrived" --we can always improve!
And considering two verses above he's talking about righteousness I think it's fairly clear he's talking about sin.
You're ignoring the last half of it, "we have an advocate". First, he's writing to those saved, he calls them his children- the body of Christ.1 John 2 The key word in this verse is "IF"... notice it doesn't say "WHEN you sin" but "IF" and I think this verse holds the real answer to all of this... Sinning should not be a WHEN for Christians but an IF. We can't allow ourselves to keep on sinning.
And he says IF they sin, their advocate... will still be Christ! How can you ignore this? Christ doesn't then shun them if they sin! He's their advocate!
- Dec 2, 2010
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Your problem isn't with the noun but the verb.
"If we claim to be", the verb here is the Greek echo which means to HOLD, accompany, posses, accompany. The KJV actually hits it right here with "have".
Read these other passages, which use the exact same Greek world, and tell yourself if this supports a PAST sense at all:
Matthew 14:17, “We have here only five loaves of bread and two fish,” they answered.
John 8:41, “The only Father we have is God himself.”
Romans 5:1, Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
2 Corinthians 3:4, Such confidence we have through Christ before God.
Just to name a few.
Do these support a past sense or a present sense?
The past sense is the "If we claimed we have not sinned" as the key word there is harmartano, which is to offend, miss the mark, a semi-literal translation would be "If we say that not we sinned liar we make him"... THIS is your past tense verse. You cannot apply this to the first one above.
The context is confidence in the flesh, IE things of self... What are things of self? Sin.
And considering two verses above he's talking about righteousness I think it's fairly clear he's talking about sin.
You're ignoring the last half of it, "we have an advocate". First, he's writing to those saved, he calls them his children- the body of Christ.
And he says IF they sin, their advocate... will still be Christ! How can you ignore this? Christ doesn't then shun them if they sin! He's their advocate!
The most disrespectful act one canshow toward our God is to deliberately commit a sin.
(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of thetruth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer anysacrifice for them. There is left onlythe dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour yourenemies. Anyonewho disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of twowitnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son ofGod, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if itwere not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a farseverer punishment. We are all awarewho it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into thehands of the living God.”
- Dec 2, 2010
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Bravo for addressing nothing I posted.
Look I am not about trying to teach you the written Word of God. My job is to give a word. If you want to read scripture in such a way as to justify a Christian sinning, you go ahead. I am not going to convince you, no matter how much scripture says you are wrong.
I know from God that I am right. Jesus has defended me from Satan/sin for thirty years. If you still sin, then you are a baby Christian, or not one at all.
(1 John 3: 5 - 6) “ Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him.”
(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”
Anyone should be able to see that some one of the devil could not be a follower of Jesus.
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You keep quoting the same thing which I've shown you from the Greek your interpretation is wrong.
Yes, you won't convince me of something that isn't supported by the text.
The Holy Spirit knows what a word meant when it was spoken. The Greek for perfect could have had a much different meaning to the people speaking it in Jesus’ day, then what if means today. Only the Holy Spirit/Jesus can give one the true interpretation and translation.
I believe the Holy Spirit was much involved with the people that translated the Greek scripture to the English version. I also believe they understood the Greek as well or better than the people who try to make people believe the English version is not accurate.
What a con and an elitist act it is to use a study of a language to try and convince others he or she is right because they have some special knowledge of a language.
Each and every one of us has the perfect teacher to ask what a verse in scripture means. One is much better off to say Jesus told me, why don’t you see what he will tell you.
I personally believe Jesus doesn’t tell everyone the same thing. Some people are babies, and some are grad students. We are all to be led and taught by God.
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I suggest you get to working on re-writing the entire Bible then.
Oh wait, that's been done... By Joseph Smith, Mohammed, etc
I would like to share some of the tools people use to twistthe written Word of God.
The tool often used is the Greek Word.
I believe the Holy Spirit was much involved with the people thattranslated the Greek scripture to the English version. I also believe they understood the Greek aswell or better than the people who try to make people believe the Englishversion is not accurate.
What a con and an elitist act it is to use a study of a languageto try and convince others he or she is right because they have some specialknowledge of a language.
Hyperbole is also used a lot. Jesus did not mean that it is just an exaggeration. Then people will go on and tell one what hereally meant. Tell me how does anyoneknow unless Jesus told him or her? IfJesus told them he will tell us also right?
Metaphorically Is used much the same way as hyperbole, andthe people who use this tool are of course the experts who can tell one justwhat Jesus meant. Wow they must bereally intelligent, like us simple people can’t read, and understand.
Another tool often used is that part of the written Word isnot talking to us. People don’t likewhat a letter is saying, so then if it is not speaking to them it can beignored. They want us to believe thatthe bible is like our history books.
Separating our spirit from our bodies, as if one is not partof the other. This tool is used to makeour actions not accountable. Our spiritdon’t sin so only the body is held accountable. What is so unbelievable is many people buy into thatgarbage.
After all these tools have been exposed as such, then thelast tool is to denigrate, defame, malign, and vilify the person who hasexposed the twisting tools.
The evil tool John used was the language of his day? LOL... I'm sorry but any last shred of respect I had for this argument went out the window after that statement.
If someone tells me TODAY something that contradicts what's in the BIBLE, I know that the person TODAY is not representative of Christ.
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know you were aware of my knowledge of Greek, do you care to share my credentials with the crowd?I believe the Holy Spirit was much involved with the people thattranslated the Greek scripture to the English version. I also believe they understood the Greek aswell or better than the people who try to make people believe the Englishversion is not accurate.
Um, because he is unchanging and what he says in the BIBLE is what he will say TODAY.ITell me how does anyoneknow unless Jesus told him or her? IfJesus told them he will tell us also right?
If someone tells me TODAY something that contradicts what's in the BIBLE, I know that the person TODAY is not representative of Christ.
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The evil tool John used was the language of his day? LOL... I'm sorry but any last shred of respect I had for this argument went out the window after that statement.
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know you were aware of my knowledge of Greek, do you care to share my credentials with the crowd?
Um, because he is unchanging and what he says in the BIBLE is what he will say TODAY.
If someone tells me TODAY something that contradicts what's in the BIBLE, I know that the person TODAY is not representative of Christ.
(1 John 3: 5 - 6) “ Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him.”
(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”
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