Finding God's Secret Place

Eccl.12:13 · Dec 12, 2010

Finding God’s Secret Place

God has a place for the church to live during the Great Tribulation. He calls it the “secret place”. We will be feed and taken care of for “a time, times and the dividing of time”, or “one-thousand, two hundred and three score days”, or “forty-two months”, all of which is equals to 3.5yrs. We will be kept from ALL harm. The wild beast we will not fear. We will be able to see the destruction and wrath of God on all sides, but no harm will become us. There will be plenty of water, fruit and herbs for us to enjoy. Those that are ill will become well. The desert will bring forth grass. The parched land will become a pool of water.

Does that sound great or what? To some it may even sound hard to believe, but it’s true! God has a secret place for the church during the Great Tribulation (GT) period and it is described just as I said above. The description can be found throughout the bible. And yes…this place is right here on earth. NO….we are NOT going to be taken from this earth off to heaven during the GT. We will be right here in the wilderness, if you are so blessed, where God told us to go.

I’m sure some are saying “Where in the bible does it say all of that?”. Well, if we follow God’s instructions for reading and studying His word it can be found everywhere.

Isa.28
[10] For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Topic with topic. Line upon line. Searching the scriptures here and there.

With that said, let’s find God’s “Secret Place”!

Finding God’s Secret Place Throughout the Scripture

Let’s think about something before our search. Let’s count how many times God had to remove His children from this earth because of His pending wrath and judgments against the wicked;

He didn’t remove anyone for the flood.
He didn’t remove anybody for the (10) plagues of Egypt.
No one was taken for the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.
Nor was anyone removed for ANY of the many wars fought.
He didn’t remove Mary, Joseph and Jesus from Herod’s terror.

Not one time did God EVER remove His children from this earth for ANYTHING! So why should He have to do it for the Great Tribulation? He doesn’t. And He will not. Now let’s find God’s “secret place”;

God has a secret place or a place of safety that He will prepare for His church and He will keep those that understand safe from ALL harm for the entire time of the Tribulation period, 3.5yrs.

2Pt 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

This “…hour of temptation…” that will come upon ALL the world is indeed the Great Tribulation period.

And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 3.5 years. Rev 12:6.

And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 3.5 years. Rev 12:14.

The woman above is God’s church; ALL those that believe and trust in the true and living God are they that make up this church.

But this is not the only place that we are told about a place of safety; there are MANY more scriptures to be found, yes FOUND! Because you truly must ask God for wisdom and understanding when searching His word to know and understand just what these scriptures are talking about.

Let’s read search God’s word and read some of them…..

Pss.91
[1] He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
[3] Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.

By the mouth of David we are told the Lord will deliver us from the “snare of the fowler”.

[7] A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
[8] Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.

There will be destruction on both sides but no harm will come to us. Why? He tells us…

[9] Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
[10] There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
[11] For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
[12] They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.
[13] Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet.

The angels of the Lord will be there to protect and to guide.

Isa.16
[1] Send ye the lamb to the ruler of the land from Sela to the wilderness, unto the mount of the daughter of Zion.
[2] For it shall be, that, as a wandering bird cast out of the nest, so the daughters of Moab shall be at the fords of Arnon.
[3] Take counsel, execute judgment; make thy shadow as the night in the midst of the noonday; hide the outcasts; bewray not him that wandereth.
[4] Let mine outcasts dwell with thee, Moab; be thou a covert to them from the face of the spoiler: for the extortioner is at an end, the spoiler ceaseth, the oppressors are consumed out of the land.

Again God tells us He will protect us from the spoiler, and this protection is in the wilderness.

Isa.35
[1] The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.
[2] It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God.
[3] Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees.
[4] Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you.
[7] And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes.
[8] And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.
[9] No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there:

We will be fully taken care of. Food, shelter, water….we will not even have to worry about the beast of the field.

Isa.41
[18] I will open rivers in high places, and fountains in the midst of the valleys: I will make the wilderness a pool of water, and the dry land springs of water.
[19] I will plant in the wilderness the cedar, the shittah tree, and the myrtle, and the oil tree; I will set in the desert the fir tree, and the pine, and the box tree together:
[20] That they may see, and know, and consider, and understand together, that the hand of the LORD hath done this, and the Holy One of Israel hath created it.

Please note that ALL of these events are things that WILL happen, for the desert of the children of Israel are yet barren.

Not only is God's secret place hid from those with natural eyes, but His secret place is also hid from most spiritual eyes, for you truly MUST search the scriptures to find God's secret place.

Let’s review:

Who is this Woman that fled into the wilderness? The woman is the church.

Rv 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
14: And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Where is this wilderness and solitary place of God? The mountains of Jerusalem.

Psalm 91v1
1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
Isaiah 35v1-10
v1 The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.

Why is the Lord(lamb) sent to the wilderness to the daughters of Zion? To help, protect, teach and guide those that arrive.

Isaiah 16v1-5
1 Send ye the lamb to the ruler of the land from Sela to the wilderness, unto the mount of the daughter of Zion.
Isaiah 41v17-20
17 When the poor and needy seek water, and there is none, and their tongue faileth for thirst, I the LORD will hear them, I the God of Israel will not forsake them.
18 I will open rivers in high places, and fountains in the midst of the valleys: I will make the wilderness a pool of water, and the dry land springs of water.
19 I will plant in the wilderness the cedar, the shittah tree, and the myrtle, and the oil tree; I will set in the desert the fir tree, and the pine, and the box tree together:
20 That they may see, and know, and consider, and understand together, that the hand of the LORD hath done this, and the Holy One of Israel hath created it.

Why is this happening in the wilderness? To protect the church.

Isaiah 43v19-20
19 Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.
20 The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen.

Please understand…..the wilderness is NOT now what it is yet to be! Why? Well…..what has man ALWAYS done to fertile ground? Build, pollute and destroy! But there will come a time when you will see a change near the mountains of Jerusalem. Water WILL start to spring forth! Flowers, fruits and trees WILL start to bloom! Beast will start to migrate! And those with wisdom and understanding WILL come! All that God’s word said will happen WILL happen! My question to those reading is this, What will YOU do when you see all of these changes taking place?

Its obvious that this place called the wilderness is not taught in many churches. It truly is a secret. God revealed this secret to his prophets, and to all with wisdom and understanding.

Now that you know…….What will YOU do when you see the signs in the wilderness and the man of sin is placed in the temple? Will you do as your God instructs? Will you FLEE?

.

Miss Hepburn · Dec 12, 2010

That's all well and good. Nice post and topic.

But, simply seeing the topic title - the Lord's Secret Place is inside me;
simple as that.

And that place allows me to be content beyond reason; beyond
external circumstances.
That Secret Dwelling Place of the Lord within - allows peace with or without a job..
with or without health...with or without a house;
Beyond understanding...that Secret Place is one of the primary goals of this life, imo.

Eccl.12:13 · Dec 12, 2010

Miss Hepburn said:
But, simply seeing the topic title - the Lord's Secret Place is inside me;
simple as that.

And that place allows me to be content beyond reason; beyond
external circumstances.

This lesson is about the place of safety God will provide for the church during the Great Tribulation period.

This will be an 'external circumstance' that God WILL allow. Let's read the fate of those NOT in the place of safety during this 'external circumstance';

Dan.7
[21] I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
[25] And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

This is what will become of those NOT in God's place of safety during the GTP. Let's read of the same event in the NT.

Rev.13
[7] And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Now let's read of what will be needed when the man of sin in control of everything;

Rev.13
[16] And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
[17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Whether you are rich or poor, free or bond, great or small....ALL will have to take the mark in order to buy or sell.

This is an ''external circumstance' that God WILL allow. The great part of it is that He has given ALL a way of not having to go through it; His Secret Place!

This is what this lesson is about. It's not about feeling good or emotions! It's about saving you and your family during the Great Tribulation Period!

.

TexUs · Dec 20, 2010

Do we need to seek out his "Secret" place?
What's the purpose in seeking this "Secret" place? Self-comfort?

If we as Christians are Christians then I think we are all prepared to die, yes?

veteran · Dec 20, 2010

Eccl.12:13 said:
Finding God’s Secret Place

God has a place for the church to live during the Great Tribulation. He calls it the “secret place”. We will be feed and taken care of for “a time, times and the dividing of time”, or “one-thousand, two hundred and three score days”, or “forty-two months”, all of which is equals to 3.5yrs. We will be kept from ALL harm. The wild beast we will not fear. We will be able to see the destruction and wrath of God on all sides, but no harm will become us. There will be plenty of water, fruit and herbs for us to enjoy. Those that are ill will become well. The desert will bring forth grass. The parched land will become a pool of water.

The only escape during the coming tribulation is being in Christ Jesus, His covering over us, for He now is our Passover Lamb per the New Covenant. We do not have to literally escape anywhere, as that's been one of the problems those on the Pre-trib secret rapture also struggle with, seeing that they intend to physically escape the tribulation also. Many of the OT Scriptures which Eccl. is using are meant for after... Christ has returned, not before. After Christ's return is when the deserts in the holy land will blossum as the rose because of His River of Ezekiel 47 being established in Jerusalem after He returns.

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

This “…hour of temptation…” that will come upon ALL the world is indeed the Great Tribulation period.

That Rev.3:10 verse was Christ speaking to the Church of Philadelphia, one of the 2 churches He had no rebuke for. His promise to keep them from the "hour of temptation" has no literal description of physical fleeing to anywhere. The idea of physical escape must be added to the Scripture to come to that wrong conclusion Eccl. has.

The actual meaning of that is Christ keeping those away from the deception that "hour of temptation" is to cause for the rest of the world. It's about not being deceived by the coming pseudochristos He warned of in Matt.24 and Mark 13, and Paul's warning of a false one coming first in 2 Thess.2 to cause the "strong delusion" upon the deceived. Those on a Pre-trib secret rapture also abuse that verse in trying to support their flying away to escape the tribulation timing.

And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 3.5 years

. Rev 12:6.

And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 3.5 years. Rev 12:14.

The woman above is God’s church; ALL those that believe and trust in the true and living God are they that make up this church.

But this is not the only place that we are told about a place of safety; there are MANY more scriptures to be found, yes FOUND! Because you truly must ask God for wisdom and understanding when searching His word to know and understand just what these scriptures are talking about.

Let’s read search God’s word and read some of them…..

Pss.91
[1] He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
[3] Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.

Nothing about a literal escape from the tribulation in that Psalms Scripture. Instead, it's about how God is able to protect His servants who remain faithful to Him, but it does not say HOW He will do that. Once again, Eccl. is adding his ideas to the Scripture.

By the mouth of David we are told the Lord will deliver us from the “snare of the fowler”.

[7] A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
[8] Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.

There will be destruction on both sides but no harm will come to us. Why? He tells us…

[9] Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
[10] There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
[11] For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
[12] They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.
[13] Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet.

The angels of the Lord will be there to protect and to guide.

Much of that particular Psalms Scripture was about our Lord Jesus at His first coming, for that's one of the Scriptures the devil used to tempt Christ with in Luke 4. In contrast, Christ told those of the Church of Smyrna in Rev.2 that some of them would be delivered up, and to be faithful unto death. The real protection from God to His people is especially of their soul or spirit, irregardless of physical persecution unto death. Many of Christ's Apostles were executed for following Christ to show that's not always about physical protection in this world.

Isa.16
[1] Send ye the lamb to the ruler of the land from Sela to the wilderness, unto the mount of the daughter of Zion.
[2] For it shall be, that, as a wandering bird cast out of the nest, so the daughters of Moab shall be at the fords of Arnon.
[3] Take counsel, execute judgment; make thy shadow as the night in the midst of the noonday; hide the outcasts; bewray not him that wandereth.
[4] Let mine outcasts dwell with thee, Moab; be thou a covert to them from the face of the spoiler: for the extortioner is at an end, the spoiler ceaseth, the oppressors are consumed out of the land.

Again God tells us He will protect us from the spoiler, and this protection is in the wilderness.

As I have warned many times, one must be careful of those who pull out a few Scriptures to use in support of their ideas, contrary to the Scripture flow, which Eccl. has already left his supposed usage of line upon line idea from Isaiah 28.

Isaiah 16 is a difficult chapter. It's about God's rebuke upon the nation of Moab. It is not about protection during the tribulation time. Moab historically sought to hide under Jerusalem's shadow. God is mocking Moab there, telling them to go ahead and see if they can be a covert of protection for them against the spoiler. Only one verse of Isaiah 16:5 refers to a time of real protection of a king (Christ) sitting upon David's throne in truth and ruling in righteousness, which of course is about Christ's reign AFTER the tribulation after His return. The rest of the Isaiah 16 chapter is about God's rebuke upon Moab.

Isa.35
[1] The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.
[2] It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God.
[3] Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees.
[4] Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you.
[7] And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes.
[8] And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.
[9] No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there:

We will be fully taken care of. Food, shelter, water….we will not even have to worry about the beast of the field.

I find it interesting that Eccl. chose to leave the very last verse of that Isaiah 35 chapter out...

Isa 35:10
10 And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.
(KJV)

That's about AFTER Christ's return and our gathering to Him, not during the coming tribulation. The desert will blossum as a rose AFTER Christ's return, not before. Those are Milennium time descriptions of Christ's literal return to this earth, ruling from Jerusalem, and the River of Ezekiel 47 flowing out of God's House on earth into the desert. Trying to move those events to prior to Christ's return is a lie of deception.

Isa.41
[18] I will open rivers in high places, and fountains in the midst of the valleys: I will make the wilderness a pool of water, and the dry land springs of water.
[19] I will plant in the wilderness the cedar, the shittah tree, and the myrtle, and the oil tree; I will set in the desert the fir tree, and the pine, and the box tree together:
[20] That they may see, and know, and consider, and understand together, that the hand of the LORD hath done this, and the Holy One of Israel hath created it.

Please note that ALL of these events are things that WILL happen, for the desert of the children of Israel are yet barren.

Once again, those Isaiah 41 Scriptures are for AFTER Christ's return concerning His River of Ezekiel 47, which is Milennium timing, not tribulation timing. Isaiah 41 is God telling Israel that He's going to save them, and what joys He has prepared for them after He has done so. It's not about ideas of tribulation escapism. Instead, it is to give us strength to go through the tribulation if anything.

Who is this Woman that fled into the wilderness? The woman is the church.

Rv 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
14: And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Where is this wilderness and solitary place of God? The mountains of Jerusalem.

Once again, Eccl. adds to the Scriptures instead of staying within the Scripture context. That wilderness idea has to be metaphorical, simply because the reason she goes into it is for protection against what comes out of the dragon's mouth, i.e., waters AS A flood, pointing to lies of deception. Notice he chose to leave out the Rev.12:15-16 verses about that flood from the dragon which is an important part of that Scripture's flow.

Isaiah 43v19-20
19 Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.
20 The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen.

Please understand…..the wilderness is NOT now what it is yet to be! Why? Well…..what has man ALWAYS done to fertile ground? Build, pollute and destroy! But there will come a time when you will see a change near the mountains of Jerusalem. Water WILL start to spring forth! Flowers, fruits and trees WILL start to bloom! Beast will start to migrate! And those with wisdom and understanding WILL come! All that God’s word said will happen WILL happen! My question to those reading is this, What will YOU do when you see all of these changes taking place?

Yet again he takes the Isaiah Scripture out of context, for those Isa.19-20 verses are for AFTER Christ's return. There will be literal earth changes in the holy land STARTING at Christ's return. But that's AFTER the tribulation, not before nor during it.

That God is going to make major changes in the area of the holy land after Christ's return is no SECRET. Bible scholars have known about that for a long time. The following Ezek.47 Scripture is the time those Isaiah 35 and 41 verses are talking about...

Ezek 47:1-12
1 Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar.
2 Then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward, and led me about the way without unto the utter gate by the way that looketh eastward; and, behold, there ran out waters on the right side.
3 And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters were to the ancles.
4 Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters were to the loins.
5 Afterward he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over.
6 And he said unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen this? Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river.
7 Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.
8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.
9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.
10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.
11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.
12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.
(KJV)

The deceived like Eccl. are depending upon you not having studied many other OT Scriptures like the above that reveal when those waters from God's River during Christ's future reign will heal all areas where it flows. It's not during the great tribulation when that happens, but after the tribulation when Christ returns and after His gathering of His saints.

The unbelieving Jews are doing their darndest to trick as many Christians as possible into going over to Jerusalem in prep to bow in false worship to their false king messiah the dragon. That's who's coming there in the coming great tribulation. God is not sending that dragon false messiah antichrist for those in Christ Jesus. He's sending him to those deceived Jews who deny His Word of Truth, and who especially deny Christ's warnings to flee Judea and Jerusalem just prior to His coming there to destroy the enemy who will be in power there for the last days. In Luke 21:21 Christ specifically commanded for those of His dwelling in the countries to not enter into Jerusalem-Judea in that tribulation time.

Eccl.12:13 · Dec 20, 2010

For those reading this lesson I only ask that you do one thing. Study God's word, ask for widsom and understanding, and just use some common sense.

Sometime in the very near future there will be events taking place that already have been revealed to us in God's holy word.

A temple will be built.
Sacrifices will begin.
A man will be placed in the temple.
The man placed will stop the sacrifices.
And the wilderness area around the mountains of Moeb will begin to florish.

And at that time you will have to make a choice.

Veteran will have you to believe staying put is the correct course of action.

In contrast, your Lord and savior said this should be your course of action;

Matt.24
[16] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Mark 13
[14] But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

You only have TWO choices! Stay or Flee! What will you do? I pray you will have studied your bible, trust in God's word and flee!

Here is something to consider, Why is Jesus telling those in Judaea to flee to the mountains? Let's read why...

[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Now if the mountains is a place of safety for those leaving Judaea, why wouldn't it a place of safety for those fleeing any other country?

As in all of my lessons, I am not trying to change the minds of those that do not believe in the topic. These lessons are for those that may not have read or even considered the scriptures presented.

These lessons are not taught in most, if any, churches!

There will be a place of safety for God's true church.....in the wilderness in the mountains of Moeb around Judaea!

.

.

TexUs · Dec 20, 2010

Eccl.12:13 said:
A temple will be built.
Sacrifices will begin.
A man will be placed in the temple.
The man placed will stop the sacrifices.
And the wilderness area around the mountains of Moeb will begin to florish.

And at that time you will have to make a choice.

Assuming that's all future.

I do have a question for those that hold to this. Christ came here to destroy the sacrificial system. What is the purpose of re-instating that? Your view would also have the temple existent even during the new reign of Christ. You will slaughter animals and then bring them to the temple where Christ reigns? But... THE sacrifice for man, YOUR sacrifice, is sitting right there in the temple to be worshiped and yet you will turn around to sacrifice an animal? For what purpose, and what sense does this make? Why'd Christ destroy the sacrificial system only to reinstate it?
I say this because there is no commandment to rebuild the temple, it's just referenced (And like I said, if you take that reference to be future you could conclude it must be rebuilt).

veteran · Dec 21, 2010

Those who think to listen to Eccl.'s false teaching might want to actually read what our Lord Jesus said about that time, instead of listening to those like Eccl. and guysmith telling you to go to Jerusalem for the tribulation timing for protection...

Luke 21:20-22
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
(KJV)

Our Lord Jesus told those dwelling in the countries in that time to not enter thereinto.

So why would those like Eccl. be tellling us that we need to go to Jerusalem during the tribulation to be saved? Jerusalem is going to be an evil place during the great tribulation timing, which do you think that's why Christ warned His servants to stay out of her in that time?

Ecl said: "Where is this wilderness and solitary place of God? The mountains of Jerusalem.

Do you think Eccl. made a slip up in his statement above? He did, for there he reveals he wants YOU to flee to the "mountains of Jerusalem" for the tribulation! Where's that exactly? Definitely not a 'wilderness' per God's Word, which is put for a desert. The mountains of Jerusalem refer to the area of Jerusalem-Judea itself, and not the deserts outside it! It is specifically Jerusalem-Judea that Christ forewarned for His servants to get out of in the Luke 21:21 verse, and for those outside it already in the countries to not enter thereinto. But Eccl. wants us Christians there, just as the false Jews who refuse Christ do also for the tribulation timing.

Ecl. said: "Why is the Lord(lamb) sent to the wilderness to the daughters of Zion? To help, protect, teach and guide those that arrive."

Eccl. is saying for those dwelling in the countries in Christ need to flee to Jerusalem for safety during the tribulation, when that is the DIRECT OPPOSITE of what our Lord Jesus commanded us in the Luke 21:21 verse.

He's also misapplying the Isaiah 16:1 verse totally against common sense which is easily discovered by reading Isaiah 16...

Isa 16:1-13
1 Send ye the lamb to the ruler of the land from Sela to the wilderness, unto the mount of the daughter of Zion.

God tells the ruler of the land from Sela (petra in the Greek) to send the lamb 'through' (KJV 'to' was added by translators) the wilderness to Judah in Zion. It's about Sela put for the ruler of Moab, since Moab's boundaries reached from Sela (Petra) in Idumea to the wilderness of the Jordan. Sela was another name for Petra, the capital city of Idumea (of Esau). God is mocking Moab, telling them to go ahead, send lambs for sacrifice to Judah in appeasement for protection, but it won't help...

2 For it shall be, that, as a wandering bird cast out of the nest, so the daughters of Moab shall be at the fords of Arnon.

There it is. As a little lost baby bird that was cast out of its nest, so shall the daughters of Moab be. Sending the lamb to Judah in Zion won't help their condition, God is saying.

THIS HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO WITH THE IDEA ECCL. IS PREACHING. He's trying to use it as a verse about God's protection when it's about God's prophesied doom upon Moab!!

3 Take counsel, execute judgment; make thy shadow as the night in the midst of the noonday; hide the outcasts; bewray not him that wandereth.
4 Let mine outcasts dwell with thee, Moab; be thou a covert to them from the face of the spoiler: for the extortioner is at an end, the spoiler ceaseth, the oppressors are consumed out of the land.
5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.
6 We have heard of the pride of Moab; he is very proud: even of his haughtiness, and his pride, and his wrath: but his lies shall not be so.
7 Therefore shall Moab howl for Moab, every one shall howl: for the foundations of Kirhareseth shall ye mourn; surely they are stricken.
8 For the fields of Heshbon languish, and the vine of Sibmah: the lords of the heathen have broken down the principal plants thereof, they are come even unto Jazer, they wandered through the wilderness: her branches are stretched out, they are gone over the sea.
9 Therefore I will bewail with the weeping of Jazer the vine of Sibmah: I will water thee with my tears, O Heshbon, and Elealeh: for the shouting for thy summer fruits and for thy harvest is fallen.
10 And gladness is taken away, and joy out of the plentiful field; and in the vineyards there shall be no singing, neither shall there be shouting: the treaders shall tread out no wine in their presses; I have made their vintage shouting to cease.
11 Wherefore my bowels shall sound like an harp for Moab, and mine inward parts for Kirharesh.
12 And it shall come to pass, when it is seen that Moab is weary on the high place, that he shall come to his sanctuary to pray; but he shall not prevail.
13 This is the word that the LORD hath spoken concerning Moab since that time.
(KJV)

If the reader continues in those Isaiah chapters past 16, they'll also discover dooms and burdens God prophesied upon Jerusalem and Zion herself for the last days, especially in Isaiah 29. That section of Isaiah Scripture is what some Bible scholars call 'The Apocalypse Of Isaiah', because it parallels our Lord's Book of Revelation about Jerusalem in a fallen idol worship state during the great tribulation.

Like I said before, the false Jews will say anything today to get us Christians to prepare to go over to Jerusalem for their coming false messiah that's going to be setup there. That's why they've been petitioning Christian Churches from Jerusalem to sends funds and join in the rebuilding their false temple.

You won't find just only Eccl. and guysmith preaching that false doctrine of fleeing to Jerusalem for the tribulation. That false doctrine is making its rounds on several Christian forums today, revealing a false movement by... I wonder who? False Jews that have refused Christ Jesus and have instead made a covenant with death instead, that's who.

Eccl.12:13 · Dec 21, 2010

TexUs said:
[/size]
Assuming that's all future.

I do have a question for those that hold to this. Christ came here to destroy the sacrificial system. What is the purpose of re-instating that? Why'd Christ destroy the sacrificial system only to reinstate it? I say this because there is no commandment to rebuild the temple, it's just referenced.

First it must be understood that it will not be Christ that reintates animal sacrifice....it will be man.

We know that animal sacrifice will start again because of the following verses;

Dan.8
[11] Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

Dan.11
[31] And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Dan.12
[11] And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

In order for the sacrifice to be taken away it must first be started.

Now concerning a temple being built, God's word tells us the following;

Zech.6
[12] And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:
[13] Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

Now let's find who will help build God's temple;

Zech.4
[9] The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you.

This temple will be built AFTER Christ returns to reign over this earth.

.

TexUs · Dec 21, 2010

Eccl.12:13 said:
First it must be understood that it will not be Christ that reintates animal sacrifice....it will be man.

This temple will be built AFTER Christ returns to reign over this earth.

So... Christ will be reigning on earth in his temple, and will allow man to once more sacrifice animals for awhile before he decides to shut it down?
So you say Christ won't allow sacrifices then my question is, what's the point of the temple that's to be built?

Eccl.12:13 · Dec 21, 2010

veteran said:
Those who think to listen to Eccl.'s false teaching might want to actually read what our Lord Jesus said about that time, instead of listening to those like Eccl. and guysmith telling you to go to Jerusalem for the tribulation timing for protection...

Luke 21:20-22
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
(KJV)

Our Lord Jesus told those dwelling in the countries in that time to not enter thereinto.

So why would those like Eccl. be tellling us that we need to go to Jerusalem during the tribulation to be saved? Jerusalem is going to be an evil place during the great tribulation timing, which do you think that's why Christ warned His servants to stay out of her in that time?

For those that have studied God's word, I'm sure you know that the above scriptures are not speaking about the second coming of the Lord. The above speaks about a time that happened about 40yrs. after Jesus spoke these words. The event mentioned above happened around 70ad when Rome took over Jersusalem and the remaining Jews were scattered into all nations.

Now let's read the rest of the chapter to confirm;

[23] But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

Notice God's word says there will be great wrath upon "this" people! What people? The people that are dwelling in the land. Let's continue.....

[24] And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Now for those that may not be aware of the history of Israel, you can do just a little research to find that the events mentioned above did in fact take place.

As I said, the scriptures that veteran provided above do not speak about the second coming of the Lord, which is why I did not use them for this lesson.

Now I'm not sure if veteran was aware that the scriptures did not deal with the second coming of Christ or not.....but do read God's word, ask for wisdom and understanding and do not trust everthing that everyone says....including me.

Now just in case you have read what veteran posted and are confused about what I am saying in this lesson, this is what I suggest. Follow the Lords advice;

Matt.24
[16] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Just as the Lord is not saying to go to Jerusalem, I am NOT saying to go to Jerusalem! I am saying to take the advice of the Lord and flee to the mountains.

Which mountains? The mountains surrounding Judaea.

Now to be honest....do I know just which? No! But since I will not be the only one looking for this place of safety, I'm sure God will direct. But based upon the word of God, His place of safety must be close to the wilderness near Moab.

God also gave us signs to watch for;

1. "...the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose."
2. "...the parched ground shall become a pool..."
3. "...the thirsty land springs of water..."
4. "... shall be grass with reeds and rushes..."
5. "...I will open rivers in high places..."
6. "...I will plant in the wilderness the cedar, the shittah tree, and the myrtle, and the oil tree..."
7. "...I will set in the desert the fir tree, and the pine, and the box tree together:..."
8. "...Let mine outcasts dwell with thee, Moab; be thou a covert to them from the face of the spoiler..."

These are the signs myself and many others will be looking for.

Now veteran would have the readers to believe that the following verse speaks of a human ruler, as quoted by him here;

Isa 16:1-13
1 Send ye the lamb to the ruler of the land from Sela to the wilderness, unto the mount of the daughter of Zion.

God tells the ruler of the land from Sela (petra in the Greek) to send the lamb 'through' (KJV 'to' was added by translators) the wilderness to Judah in Zion. It's about Sela put for the ruler of Moab,

But let's really read this again.....

"Send ye the lamb to the ruler of the land from Sela to the wilderness, unto the mount of the daughter of Zion."

So where is the "lamb" sent? To the mount of the daughter of Zion, or Jerusalem!

"Take counsel, execute judgment; make thy shadow as the night in the midst of the noonday; hide the outcasts; bewray not him that wandereth.

When the Lord returns He will do just that; He will take counsel! He will execute judgment! The sun will be darkened in the noonday! And His church will be hid in the wilderness!

"Let mine outcasts dwell with thee, Moab; be thou a covert to them from the face of the spoiler: for the extortioner is at an end, the spoiler ceaseth, the oppressors are consumed out of the land."

The mountains of Moab will hide and protect His church from the spoiler/abomination of desolation, nad the oppressors will be consumed.

"And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness."

When the Lord returns His throne will be established! He will sit on the throne of His father David! He will judge and bring righteousness!!

Now, as I said, veteran would have you to believe this speaks of a human ruler. But does it really?

.

TexUs said:
So... Christ will be reigning on earth in his temple, and will allow man to once more sacrifice animals for awhile before he decides to shut it down?
So you say Christ won't allow sacrifices then my question is, what's the point of the temple that's to be built?

Starting to get a little of topic, so I will try to make this quick.

Before Christ returns a temple will be built.
At some point, again BEFORE Christ return, animal sacrifices will once again start!
The abomination of desolation will be placed in the temple that was built!
And at some point after he has been placed in the temple, the abomination will stop the daily sacrifice!

All of these events will happen BEFORE Jesus returns!

After Jesus returns and begins to rule on this earth HE will begin to build the temple of the God!

.

TexUs · Dec 21, 2010

Eccl.12:13 said:
Before Christ returns a temple will be built.
At some point, again BEFORE Christ return, animal sacrifices will once again start!
The abomination of desolation will be placed in the temple that was built!
And at some point after he has been placed in the temple, the abomination will stop the daily sacrifice!

All of these events will happen BEFORE Jesus returns!

After Jesus returns and begins to rule on this earth HE will begin to build the temple of the God!

The assumption being the nonbelievers are the ones with the temple/sacrifices?

veteran · Dec 22, 2010

Once again, it's not really that difficult to understand how those like Eccl' is so drunken on the idea of today's Jerusalem that he can't grasp what the Isaiah 16 Scripture is really about...

Isa 16:1-14
1 Send ye the lamb to the ruler of the land from Sela to the wilderness, unto the mount of the daughter of Zion.
2 For it shall be, that, as a wandering bird cast out of the nest, so the daughters of Moab shall be at the fords of Arnon.

God is mocking Moab. Moab sought protection from Jerusalem by sending sacrificial lambs to Jerusalem, while still following darkness in false worship. So God saying, go ahead Moab, send the lamb to the ruler of the land from Sela through the wilderness to Jerusalem. But it won't help, for just as a wandering bird cast out of its nest, so will the people of Moab be. It's a curse, not a blessing. That's why trying to use that Scripture as a blessing upon Jerusalem is such an ignorant and crazy idea, especially since it's God speaking to Moab, and not to Jerusalem!

3 Take counsel, execute judgment; make thy shadow as the night in the midst of the noonday; hide the outcasts; bewray not him that wandereth.
4 Let mine outcasts dwell with thee, Moab; be thou a covert to them from the face of the spoiler: for the extortioner is at an end, the spoiler ceaseth, the oppressors are consumed out of the land.

God's mocking of Moab continues. Take counsel Moab, do judgment, make your shadow as night in the noonday, try to hide the outcasts, don't hide those who go astray ("bewray"= to show, uncover). Let my outcasts dwell with you Moab, see if you can be a covert (covering) for them from the spoiler, for surely the spoiler is at an end and the oppressors are gone. God is speaking the direct opposite idea of protection about Moab. That should have been well understood just from the 2nd verse with the bird out of its nest metaphor. That's all in the negative sense, not the positive.

5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.
6 We have heard of the pride of Moab; he is very proud: even of his haughtiness, and his pride, and his wrath: but his lies shall not be so.

Verse 5 is God's mocking of Moab's wishful thinking for seeking to send lambs to Jerusalem in hopes of gaining God's protection, because of God's Promises for His future righteous at Jerusalem when the tabernacle of David returns, which is for when? After Christ's return. God is mocking Moab to show their attempt to gain favor by sending lambs to Jerusalem ain't gonna' work. That's the lies of Moab which God is talking about there.

If this were about God's protection in the wilderness of the symbolic woman of Rev.12, it certainly shouldn't be about Moab's lies, now should it? No, of course not.

7 Therefore shall Moab howl for Moab, every one shall howl: for the foundations of Kirhareseth shall ye mourn; surely they are stricken.

Again, if this were about protection in the wilderness, why is this about God saying Moab shall HOWL for Moab, EVERY ONE SHALL HOWL, and they are STRICKEN?

8 For the fields of Heshbon languish, and the vine of Sibmah: the lords of the heathen have broken down the principal plants thereof, they are come even unto Jazer, they wandered through the wilderness: her branches are stretched out, they are gone over the sea.

Translates the names and compare with how God is speaking this doom upon Moab and the following idea comes forth: The fields of Heshbon (means 'stronghold') languish (are sick), and the vine of Sibmah (fragrance); translating those names shows how God is referring to Moab's fallen state. The lords of the heathen breaking down the principal plants is an easy pointer of that. Jazer means 'helped', meaning they've come for help but wandered through the wilderness like being lost. And her branches are forsaken ("stretched out"= forsaken, abandoned per Hebrew natash). Boy, now that really fits with Isaiah 35 and 41 about the desert blossuming like a rose now doesn't it? No, it does not, it's instead the opposite idea! It's a curse from Moab's falseness, not about the woman hiding in the wilderness during the tribulation.

9 Therefore I will bewail with the weeping of Jazer the vine of Sibmah: I will water thee with my tears, O Heshbon, and Elealeh: for the shouting for thy summer fruits and for thy harvest is fallen.

Again, translate the name meanings; God says He will bewail the weeping of Jazer (helped) the vine of Sibmah (fragrance), with His tears. Is that good? No, for in the next phrase their summer fruits and harvest is fallen. Not a blessing, but a curse. And definitely not the idea of the woman being protected in a blossuming desert with many plants and fruits to eat!! It's the exact opposite idea instead! And that's why this Isaiah 16 chapter has NOTHING to do with the Rev.12 prophecy of the woman going into the metaphorical wilderness for protection.

10 And gladness is taken away, and joy out of the plentiful field; and in the vineyards there shall be no singing, neither shall there be shouting: the treaders shall tread out no wine in their presses; I have made their vintage shouting to cease.
11 Wherefore my bowels shall sound like an harp for Moab, and mine inward parts for Kirharesh.

Gladness and joy is gone out of the plentiful field, no singing in the vineyards, no wine is pressed, the vintage had ceased. The harp is played for Moab in mourning, like a funeral. Kirharesh was a place where the king of Moab sacrificed his eldest son to the pagan god Molech (2 Kings 3).

12 And it shall come to pass, when it is seen that Moab is weary on the high place, that he shall come to his sanctuary to pray; but he shall not prevail.
13 This is the word that the LORD hath spoken concerning Moab since that time.

When Moab finally gets weary of what, they will begin to pray? A "high place" is put for a high hill altar in idol worship. Moab was following pagan gods like Chemosh, Molech, and Baal-Peor. That's why this Isaiah 16 chapter is about God mocking Moab's attempt to gain favor by sending sacrificial lambs to Jerusalem while still following their pagan gods in false worship. This chapter is about God's rebuke on Moab for that.

14 But now the LORD hath spoken, saying, Within three years, as the years of an hireling, and the glory of Moab shall be contemned, with all that great multitude; and the remnant shall be very small and feeble.
(KJV)

If the Scripture flow of Isaiah 16 is followed as written line upon line, it becomes impossible to apply that to any idea of God's people being protected in the wilderness during the tribulation. Eccl's misuse of that Scripture to support the woman fleeing into the wilderness for protection shows he has not really studied that Isaiah 16 chapter line upon line. It shows he's simply pulling out a verse here and there and applying it HOW HE WANTS, instead of heeding the subject flow of Scripture as written.

He and guysmith both are doing the same thing with the Rev.12 Scripture by mis-interpreting the metaphor of the woman going into the wilderness for protection against the 'waters' that comes out of the serpent's mouth, which waters represent lies of deception. Their obvious purpose of that is to get unlearned believers on Christ to think they must trek to Jerusalem during the tribulation timing in order to be saved, when instead our Lord Jesus told us to stay away from Jerusalem during that time (Luke 21:21). Whether they're push that lie in ignorance or not, I don't know. I'd like to think they do it out of ignorance.

So by their example is how we should NOT study God's Word. The only proper way to apply a single verse in God's Word is by FIRST understanding the Scripture flow within the chapter where the verse appears, line upon line. Having an idea and then searching out verses that SEEM to support it, removing single verses out of their chapter's context, is NOT God's Way in understanding His Word. There just ain't any shortcuts to understanding His Word. We ALL must do our own homework in It, becoming a 'workman' like apostle Paul said (2 Tim.2:15).

Eccl.12:13 · Dec 22, 2010

Readers.....if this is a metaphor, as veteran would have you to believe, why does God go out of His way to let us know just how long the church will be protected in the wilderness?

Rev.12

[6] And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

And again.....

[14] And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Both of which are equal to 3.5yrs.

Veteran has never explained how 3.5yrs is connected to his claimed metaphor of, "...the woman going into the wilderness for protection...".

Even though I explained in my last post that I, in no way, suggested anyone to go to Jerusalem during the tribulation period, veteran continues to post the following;

Their obvious purpose of that is to get unlearned believers on Christ to think they must trek to Jerusalem during the tribulation timing in order to be saved

To clear this up one more time...my only advice is to take the same advice as Jesus...

Matt.24
[16] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Veteran, could you please STOP saying that I am telling the readers to flee to Jerusalem!!!!

.

Eccl.12:13 · Dec 22, 2010

I'll make this easy.....when those reading this lesson see the following;

1. "...the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose."
2. "...the parched ground shall become a pool..."
3. "...the thirsty land springs of water..."
4. "... shall be grass with reeds and rushes..."
5. "...I will open rivers in high places..."
6. "...I will plant in the wilderness the cedar, the shittah tree, and the myrtle, and the oil tree..."
7. "...I will set in the desert the fir tree, and the pine, and the box tree together:..."

I hope that you will think back on when you read this lesson and then I want you to consider the advice of veteran verses the advice of your Lord and Saviour!

Then decide what your course of action will be!

I know for a fact the above will happen! God's word said it would!

And once it does it will not be too long before the man of sin is placed, if he is not already placed, in the temple!

Then you will have only two choices;

Stay, as veteran suggests!

OR....

Flee, as Jesus commands!

.

TexUs · Dec 22, 2010

Eccl.12:13 said:
To clear this up one more time...my only advice is to take the same advice as Jesus...

Matt.24
[16] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Veteran, could you please STOP saying that I am telling the readers to flee to Jerusalem!!!!

Why should he? You completely ignore locations, so why can't he add them?

In all reality though Jerusalem sits atop a hill does it not so I think his argument is more Biblical than yours.

<And as a jab to veteran... This suggests a localized event, not a global one, LOL>

Eccl.12:13 · Dec 22, 2010

TexUs said:
Why should he? You completely ignore locations, so why can't he add them?

Veteran is making false statements that I have cleared up in two previous post. I am NOT telling the readers to head to Jerusalem when they see the signs Jesus warns us about!

Also.... veteran never commented on his interpretation of Luke 21:20-22! The events mentioned by Christ are not about His second coming, as he would have had the readers believe, but instead are about an event that happened about 40yrs later!

.

TexUs · Dec 22, 2010

Who is the "flee" command to, Eccl? Apparently you have a problem with this little phrase being in here but like it or not, it's in there so you must deal with it:
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Eccl.12:13 · Dec 22, 2010

TexUs said:
Who is the "flee" command to, Eccl? Apparently you have a problem with this little phrase being in here but like it or not, it's in there so you must deal with it:
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

I really do not have a problem with any of God's word. The who is to those in Judaea! But like I said above....if safety in is the mountains surrounding Judaea, why wouldn't I and my family flee to those same mountains? Did Jesus say there was safety anywhere else? No!

If the mountains of Judaea are good enough to keep those fleeing from Judaea safe, it will be just as good for me and my family!

.

TexUs · Dec 22, 2010

Eccl.12:13 said:
I really do not have a problem with any of God's word. The who is to those in Judaea! But like I said above....if safety in is the mountains surrounding Judaea, why wouldn't I and my family flee to those same mountains? Did Jesus say there was safety anywhere else? No!

If the mountains of Judaea are good enough to keep those fleeing from Judaea safe, it will be just as good for me and my family!

.

OK, you clarified yourself a bit from the other thread. This argument makes more sense.

The problem is that this was not for you or I. This is an extremely localized prophecy.
The entire prophecy is based upon Christ talking about the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem, not the destruction of the world (Matthew 24:1-3).
We see a localized sense of doom in the mention of Judea (Matthew 24:16).
We see dating in Matthew 24:34, putting it around 70AD.

I could be wrong but I can't look at these things and either proclaim this as a worldwide phenomenon nor place it over 2000+ years future. I think stars from the sky is incredibly symbolic. You'd fault me for this and say I should take it literal.
Yet you yourself would try to symbolize the problematic points I've listed above, which oddly enough, is a pot-kettle thing because that's exactly the argument you'd attempt to use against my interpretation.

Such is the beauty of scripture though.

One thing we all should agree upon this passage though is that the question the disciples asked was a literal, straight-forward, and non-symbolic question. That question was dealing with the destruction of the temple. (70AD). This alone is should be enough (and is enough for me) to tell me what Christ was talking about.

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